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danny
08-25-2009, 03:58 AM
Kakasawa na cheers and drumbeats. Kantahan naman! ;D

danny
08-25-2009, 04:08 AM
I always imagined the old days when male schoolboys would sing their school songs and hymns like drunks.


There were singing before the games, singing during the games, and more singing after the games. Bunch of drunks. Even the taunting was sung...but that's a different story... :D

danny
08-25-2009, 04:33 AM
Let's call the old farts from the different schools to fart...este...sing once again!

San Beda



The Red and The White
http://www.imeem.com/animosanbeda/music/4MVtFO91/bimbo-danao-the-red-and-the-white/


Cannon Song
http://www.imeem.com/people/cO8SmWP/music/CZApCvRj/sbca-cannon-song/


San Beda Victory Song
http://www.imeem.com/people/cO8SmWP/music/xg7HKhfQ/sbca-san-beda-victory-song/


The Bedan Hymn (Raul Roco-1966)
http://www.imeem.com/people/qRSF3d/music/c-llMvY2/san-beda-chorale-bedan-hymn/


Can anyone please post the pre-1966 Hymn prior to the Raul Roco composition?

abcdef
08-25-2009, 07:42 AM
Ask ko lang po saan adapted yung San Beda victory song?thanks!

danny
08-25-2009, 08:00 AM
^^^

"From the Halls of Montezuma through the shores of Tripoli..."

U. S. Marines...just like the slogan the "The Few. The Proud." that many Bedans also adopted.

A lot of school fight songs were adopted from the American Military.

LION
08-25-2009, 08:02 AM
The US Marines and the Mighty Red School. The few and the proud, indeed.

danny
08-25-2009, 08:10 AM
This is another Bedan Classic derived from a traditional Irish song often used in Military movies. The last time I heard this was in a Die Hard Movie. ;D


San Beda Will Win The Game Today!

(Tune: Johnny I Hardly Knew Ye/When Johnny Comes Marching Home)

San Beda will win the game today!
Hurrah! Hurrah!
San Beda will win the game today!
Hurrah! Hurrah!
San Beda will go
San beda will fight
The banners wave
The red and white
Rah rah rah
Go San Beda Fight!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtzEMwJSX-w

danny
08-25-2009, 08:17 AM
The Bedan Hymn. The Red and The White. The Indian Yell. These are among the original Bedan compositions.

In fact, the 1966 Bedan Hymn was penned by the great Senator Raul Roco himself. Although we do have an older Alma Mater song known to our elders like Stardust. ;D

LION
08-25-2009, 09:07 AM
Elder na nga si stardust. Nagiging masungit na e bwahahahaha. ;D

MonL
08-25-2009, 09:21 AM
This is another Bedan Classic derived from a traditional Irish song often used in Military movies. The last time I heard this was in a Die Hard Movie. ;D


San Beda Will Win The Game Today!

(Tune: Johnny I Hardly Knew Ye/When Johnny Comes Marching Home)

San Beda will win the game today!
Hurrah! Hurrah!
San Beda will win the game today!
Hurrah! Hurrah!
San Beda will go
San beda will fight
The banners wave
The red and white
Rah rah rah
Go San Beda Fight!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtzEMwJSX-w


Also heard that ditty in the black comedy "Dr. Strangelove," in the scene where the last rogue B-52 made its final target run.

razor
08-25-2009, 10:21 AM
^ The SBC band is now regularly playing this tune. Sadly, very few know lyrics and can sing along. After we perfect the revival of the Azu Imah cheer, perhaps Jabedan and co. can take on this song as the next project for revival. ;)

gameface_one
08-25-2009, 10:21 AM
Interesting read from Tony Atayde:


The Alma Mater Brouhaha
by Tony L. Atayde


I did not want to get involved in this Alma Mater brouhaha and how La Salle has been criticized, especially by Ateneo, for being rude because La Salle does not face the opposing teamís fans when they sing the Alma Mater.

However, I finally decided to do so because there are things that people have seemed to forget. Letís go back a bit and put this in proper perspective. It was in 1964 when La Salle was the first school in any collegiate league in the Philippines who ever sang their Alma Mater after a game. Even the pumping of the fist while singing the Alma Mater, was something that La Salle started. At that time other schools in the NCAA, UAAP or any other league just left the court after the game.

The singing of the Alma Mater has been a source of pride for every Lasallian or Lasallite, whichever you prefer, since it was first sung. I remember when I was playing for La Salle, singing it while facing the La Salle crowd was an unforgettable experience.

The distinction of being the first school to ever do this can never be taken away from La Salle and it is left to reason that eventually all the other schools soon followed suit. Iím proud to say that it is a tradition that La Salle started and was copied by every school that plays in any league.
When La Salle did this in 1964, there were no rules on proper decorum nor was there any dictum on how the other school should react when the school hymn was being sung, especially since La Salle was the only one doing it.

Now things have changed. Something La Salle started 45 years ago has suddenly been deluged with complaints of DLSUís rude behavior. We are now being dictated to follow certain rules that were never even thought off when La Salle decided to start this tradition.

La Salle started the tradition and we have every right to continue the manner by which that tradition has been carried on. Nobody has the right to tell us how we should sing our Alma Mater nor how we should react when the other team sings theirs. If we choose not to face the crowd of the opposing team, then that is our prerogative. We do not do it out of disrespect but rather because that is how we have been doing it for the last 45 years. Not because other schools do it, we are obliged to do it too.

My colleague Chris Soler even commented that it is a big deal that the DLSU players do not face their fans while they sing their Alma Mater. I did not realize that now we have to follow the Ateneo way with a tradition that we began 45 years ago and the rest of the teams copied.

There are a number of actions that show good sportsmanship after a game. Coaches, players and staff shaking hands after the game and fans clapping as the other teams sing their school hymn are just some examples of these. If the DLSU team does not shake the hands of the other team or does not clap while the other team is singing their Alma Mater, then I will agree that it is definitely unsportsmanlike.

When we started singing the Alma Mater 45 years ago, we did it our way. Maybe if any other school did it first, then they can set the rules. However they did not and so leave us with our tradition and the manner in which we practice it, after all if we did not start it, maybe no one will be singing the Alma Mater today

atenean_blooded
08-25-2009, 11:00 AM
Finally, a thread about school songs!

I think the Ateneo songs are nicely represented in the media gallery section of Gameface.

The ones I saw there are:

- The old alma mater hymn - Hail, Ateneo, Hail! (words modified and music adopted from "The Fordham Ram" of Fordham University, the Jesuit school of New York)
- Cheer, Cheer and Go! (Words and music by Lamberto Avellana, one of the first members of what is now known as the BBB, and who eventually became a national artist [of course, thanks to Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo, that might not have much meaning today])
- The Ateneo Cadet Corps March (to the tune of the United States Field Artillery March; Words modified from Boston College High School March)
- The Ateneo Victory Song (aka "Roll Out the Victory," to the tune of the Battle Hymn of the Republic)
- Battle Hymn (to the tune of Vagabond Song, words by Fr. Horacio de la Costa, S.J.)
- Blue Eagle the King (words and music by Raul Manglapus)
- A Song for Mary (music adopted and modified from Lavalee's "O Canada," words by Fr. James Reuter, S.J.)
- Marcha de San Ignacio

One of the fighting songs that's missing from the gameface list but is nonetheless part of the repertoire is a song (with a corresponding cheer) called "The Hoiah" (Words [modified] and Music from "The Hoiah," Holy Cross College, Worcester, Massachusetts).

atenean_blooded
08-25-2009, 11:02 AM
Interesting read from Tony Atayde:


The Alma Mater Brouhaha
by Tony L. Atayde


I did not want to get involved in this Alma Mater brouhaha and how La Salle has been criticized, especially by Ateneo, for being rude because La Salle does not face the opposing teamís fans when they sing the Alma Mater.

However, I finally decided to do so because there are things that people have seemed to forget. Letís go back a bit and put this in proper perspective. It was in 1964 when La Salle was the first school in any collegiate league in the Philippines who ever sang their Alma Mater after a game. Even the pumping of the fist while singing the Alma Mater, was something that La Salle started. At that time other schools in the NCAA, UAAP or any other league just left the court after the game.

The singing of the Alma Mater has been a source of pride for every Lasallian or Lasallite, whichever you prefer, since it was first sung. I remember when I was playing for La Salle, singing it while facing the La Salle crowd was an unforgettable experience.

The distinction of being the first school to ever do this can never be taken away from La Salle and it is left to reason that eventually all the other schools soon followed suit. Iím proud to say that it is a tradition that La Salle started and was copied by every school that plays in any league.
When La Salle did this in 1964, there were no rules on proper decorum nor was there any dictum on how the other school should react when the school hymn was being sung, especially since La Salle was the only one doing it.

Now things have changed. Something La Salle started 45 years ago has suddenly been deluged with complaints of DLSUís rude behavior. We are now being dictated to follow certain rules that were never even thought off when La Salle decided to start this tradition.

La Salle started the tradition and we have every right to continue the manner by which that tradition has been carried on. Nobody has the right to tell us how we should sing our Alma Mater nor how we should react when the other team sings theirs. If we choose not to face the crowd of the opposing team, then that is our prerogative. We do not do it out of disrespect but rather because that is how we have been doing it for the last 45 years. Not because other schools do it, we are obliged to do it too.

My colleague Chris Soler even commented that it is a big deal that the DLSU players do not face their fans while they sing their Alma Mater. I did not realize that now we have to follow the Ateneo way with a tradition that we began 45 years ago and the rest of the teams copied.

There are a number of actions that show good sportsmanship after a game. Coaches, players and staff shaking hands after the game and fans clapping as the other teams sing their school hymn are just some examples of these. If the DLSU team does not shake the hands of the other team or does not clap while the other team is singing their Alma Mater, then I will agree that it is definitely unsportsmanlike.

When we started singing the Alma Mater 45 years ago, we did it our way. Maybe if any other school did it first, then they can set the rules. However they did not and so leave us with our tradition and the manner in which we practice it, after all if we did not start it, maybe no one will be singing the Alma Mater today



This article misses the point completely. It's not a question of who started it first (and there seems to be no proof of any sort to support this claim of Atayde's, and he's not exactly what we might call a reliable source), but a question of gentlemanly conduct.

elvis
08-25-2009, 11:29 AM
The defense that, when they allegedly started the tradition, there were "no rules on proper decorum" does not suggest that there shouldn't be any especially now that it is in fact a part of every game.

Stardust
08-25-2009, 03:47 PM
In fact, the 1966 Bedan Hymn was penned by the great Senator Raul Roco himself. Although we do have an older Alma Mater song known to our elders like Stardust. ;D





Elder na nga si stardust. Nagiging masungit na e bwahahahaha. ;D


Mga pre, na sobrahan na yata ako ng labas at adm kaya masungit na ;D

Seriously, I will look up the post of Oca re the alma mater hymn being sung after the game and bump it. Said post was here in GF and his inference was quite revealing.

danny
08-27-2009, 05:08 AM
^^^

The one why La Salle started singing their hymn? According to oca, it's because they can't sing as often as possible their Victory Song during the old NCAA.

franz_inwurdz
08-27-2009, 08:28 AM
Aahhh, since during those days the winning school's victory songs were sung after the game, di sila makakanta. Kaya pala. :D

BedanRoar
08-27-2009, 09:21 AM
Aahhh, since during those days the winning school's victory songs were sung after the game, di sila makakanta. Kaya pala. :D


Well normally, It is sung a few Seconds before the game ends if a sure win is sensed. Then, the Alma Matter song follows after the game.

abcdef
08-28-2009, 08:20 PM
congratulations to La Salle for being the FIRST to do the singing of the Alma Matter Hymn. :P

As most Bedans would recall during the 82nd season of the NCAA singing the Bedan Hymn had a very special touch. It was solemn yet proud. I can distinctly remember it coz everybody was just singing it. Among Bedans no one was celebrating yet not until the end of our hymn.

Kaming magbabarkada noon nagkalokohan pa nga na mangiyak ngiyak habang nag iinuman sa school eh,well actuall I saw some of our alumni on that teary eyed state.

Iba talaga when you sing your alma mater hymn may special na kabog sa dibdib because you are singing it with pride especially when you show it to other schools how proud you are.

Thanks to Raul Roco and Fr. Maramba they gave us a hymn we will always be proud of.

danny
08-29-2009, 02:56 AM
Aahhh, since during those days the winning school's victory songs were sung after the game, di sila makakanta. Kaya pala. :D


Well normally, It is sung a few Seconds before the game ends if a sure win is sensed. Then, the Alma Matter song follows after the game.


That's how we Bedans do it. Victory song then the Bedan Hymn.

But how about the pre-1966/Roco era? Victory song lang ba talaga o pati yung lumang Alma Mater hymn? ;D

danny
08-29-2009, 03:14 AM
How about the other schools? Is there any other school that sing their way to victory the traditional way?

(May nakapagsabi sa akin, "Traditional is the New Radical.") ;)

atenean_blooded
08-29-2009, 11:32 AM
How about the other schools? Is there any other school that sing their way to victory the traditional way?

(May nakapagsabi sa akin, "Traditional is the New Radical.") ;)


The way I understand it, back in the day, Blue Eagle the King was sung after the Blue Eagle Spelling cheer just before the Blue Eagles entered the court. We've tried to do something similar, and our brass band plays Blue Eagle the King while the team does its warm-up. Hail, Ateneo Hail is played after BETK, from time to time.

The Ateneo Victory Song ("Roll Out") is played, as your victory song is played, when a victory is sensed. Pero siguro nga saksakan lang kami ng yabang, pero hindi lang seconds before victory kinakanta. Minsan several minutes. :D

There used to be a victory cheer that was used along with this, but I think it hasn't been used in over a decade.


Song for Mary, after the match.

siops13
08-30-2009, 08:17 PM
How about the other schools? Is there any other school that sing their way to victory the traditional way?

(May nakapagsabi sa akin, "Traditional is the New Radical.") ;)


The way I understand it, back in the day, Blue Eagle the King was sung after the Blue Eagle Spelling cheer just before the Blue Eagles entered the court. We've tried to do something similar, and our brass band plays Blue Eagle the King while the team does its warm-up. Hail, Ateneo Hail is played after BETK, from time to time.

The Ateneo Victory Song ("Roll Out") is played, as your victory song is played, when a victory is sensed. Pero siguro nga saksakan lang kami ng yabang, pero hindi lang seconds before victory kinakanta. Minsan several minutes. :D

There used to be a victory cheer that was used along with this, but I think it hasn't been used in over a decade.


Song for Mary, after the match.


After the Song for Mary BETK again. Blooded, when was Hail Ateneo Hail played? I have always watched the games and seems like di ko pa narinig na tinugtog ng Brass naten to... :)

danny
08-31-2009, 12:47 AM
I guess there are only two schools who maintained the tradition of playing the fight songs. The others probably forgot about them or simply don't have any.

This is the last frontier in the continuing saga of inter-school parroting (cheers and drumbeats). Mahihirapan ang madami dito. ;D

atenean_blooded
08-31-2009, 02:12 AM
After the Song for Mary BETK again. Blooded, when was Hail Ateneo Hail played? I have always watched the games and seems like di ko pa narinig na tinugtog ng Brass naten to... :)


To be honest, last time I heard the Brass play it was last year (I think in a game versus La Salle). I don't think they've mastered that many songs in our repertoire just yet.

atenean_blooded
08-31-2009, 02:13 AM
I guess there are only two schools who maintained the tradition of playing the fight songs. The others probably forgot about them or simply don't have any.

This is the last frontier in the continuing saga of inter-school parroting (cheers and drumbeats). Mahihirapan ang madami dito. ;D




Aba ewan ko. Sabi nung tito ko na taga-UP, napasigaw sila ng mga kasama niya nung UP-NU game kasi tinutugtog daw ng NU brass band yung "Push On, UP." ;D

BedanRoar
08-31-2009, 07:47 AM
Aahhh, since during those days the winning school's victory songs were sung after the game, di sila makakanta. Kaya pala. :D


Well normally, It is sung a few Seconds before the game ends if a sure win is sensed. Then, the Alma Matter song follows after the game.


That's how we Bedans do it. Victory song then the Bedan Hymn.

But how about the pre-1966/Roco era? Victory song lang ba talaga o pati yung lumang Alma Mater hymn? ;D



The Victory Song was also sung the same way as it is being done today, even in the pre-1966 Roco era. Wala rin School Hymn (w/ Fist Pumping) after each game. In San Beda, aside from the victory song. The Red and the White was a popular song for old school students.

Jeep
09-02-2009, 09:52 PM
Aahhh, since during those days the winning school's victory songs were sung after the game, di sila makakanta. Kaya pala. :D


Well normally, It is sung a few Seconds before the game ends if a sure win is sensed. Then, the Alma Matter song follows after the game.


That's how we Bedans do it. Victory song then the Bedan Hymn.

But how about the pre-1966/Roco era? Victory song lang ba talaga o pati yung lumang Alma Mater hymn? ;D



The Victory Song was also sung the same way as it is being done today, even in the pre-1966 Roco era. Wala rin School Hymn (w/ Fist Pumping) after each game. In San Beda, aside from the victory song. The Red and the White was a popular song for old school students.


for the sake of tradition (and, frankly, nothing much else ;D ), why don't you try and sing/play that pre-roco hymn from time to time? the older ateneans still sing "hail, ateneo, hail" (the old alma mater hymn before fr. reuters' "song for Mary"). it would be good if the older bedans would do the same. para lang hindi mawala o maglaho. i'm a sucker for tradition and anything old school. heck, even my catholicism is on its way back to the old -- or at least some of it is! ;D there's nothing like traditio.

danny
09-03-2009, 12:20 AM
^^^

Pre, that's what Stardust and the rest of the elders have been asking us to do right after our "End 28 at 82" campaign. We've started reviving the older cheers and in due time we might be able to put this on the table once again.

Anyway, here's a quote from Atenean Larry Henares regarding the Bedan Hymn:


...how different, how inspiring, how wonderful, is the Alma Mater Song of San Beda College...with beautiful lyrics written by our favorite congressman, Raul Roco, long ago:

Herald the Bedans coming,/ May their fellowship never cease;/ Molded by bold, undaunted men/ Of prayer, work and peace./Through carefree days of our boyhood/ And the visions of our youth,/ You gave us the wisdom of Benedict's soul:/ Faith in God and love of truth./When we encounter trials and hardships,/ We shall give you honor and fame;/ For nothing but these show our loyalty clear/ To our Alma Mater's name./Bring out the challenges, we'll win them all/ And fear neither fire nor blood;/ Bedans will answer the clarion call/ For San Beda, our country and God!


Fellowship. Prayer, work and peace. Faith in God and love of truth. For our country and our God.

Bless the Bedans!

;)

true.blue
09-13-2009, 11:14 AM
Back in the NCAA days, taunting was openly sung by the whole crowd. For example, when La Salle was falling behind Ateneo, Ateneans would sing "De La Salle is falling down, falling down, falling down. De La Salle is falling down, cry cry baby." Of course that would be met by a unified "P... inanyo" from the other side.

Then when La Salle would sing their "Oh when La Salle, goes marching in..." Ateneans would shout back "nadapa, nadapa" after each line.

Parang mas masaya noong araw. Marami nga lang rambol afterwards, hehehe.

danny
07-24-2010, 11:36 PM
Fast forward, canned music is now the norm as schools try to manufacture instant camaraderie, instant pride and instant identity via modern media.

At least the old propaganda method was more labor intensive. Now it's all smoke and mirrors for many. ;D

Jeep
07-25-2010, 08:25 AM
hindi ako kumanta kahapon -- for the first time ever.

nawalan ako ng gana.

mangtsito
08-16-2010, 01:34 PM
RE: the canned music

I would understand how UST needs canned music because their school song's pitch is too high to be sang by many in their crowd. But it hasn't escaped anyone's attention that they have such a thing as a Conservatory of Music which, last time I checked, is one of only two Centers of Excellence in Music in the entire country.

With all that talent and resources, all it takes is for some dean to order even just one talented professor or student to create an arrangement that enable the school song to be sung by the entire crowd.

=====

Speaking of Centers of Excellence in music, the only other school that has one - UP - still inexplicably uses canned music to sing "UP Naming Mahal". "Inexplicable" because people from UP can and do sing it. I think UP's UAAP reps just need to show a little more confidence in their own crowd and turn off the canned music.

siops13
08-16-2010, 02:26 PM
RE: the canned music

I would understand how UST needs canned music because their school song's pitch is too high to be sang by many in their crowd. But it hasn't escaped anyone's attention that they have such a thing as a Conservatory of Music which, last time I checked, is one of only two Centers of Excellence in Music in the entire country.

With all that talent and resources, all it takes is for some dean to order even just one talented professor or student to create an arrangement that enable the school song to be sung by the entire crowd.

=====

Speaking of Centers of Excellence in music, the only other school that has one - UP - still inexplicably uses canned music to sing "UP Naming Mahal". "Inexplicable" because people from UP can and do sing it. I think UP's UAAP reps just need to show a little more confidence in their own crowd and turn off the canned music.


Re: UST's Alma Mater using canned music:

There was a time last year in the shakey's v-league where the YJ led the acapella singing of UST's Alma Mater. Given that there is no canned music available, The YJ just used a drumbeat (similar to the snare pattern of Letran's Signature Yell/Derecho La Salle) as intro and the Tiger Pack was able to sing it well.

danny
08-20-2010, 09:26 AM
I would like to test that theory about fist pumping. Were there Communists in La Salle just like in San Beda?

Fist pumping was a Nat Dem Commie anti-establishment call to arms. Before the CPP, the HUKS of Taruc and even that of the Katipuneros. All revolutionary movements pumping their fists in defiance.

Kapag nakita ka ng tatay mong itataas iyan at parang kakanta ng Internationale, latigo ka bata.

In San Beda, the Nat Dem commies were everywhere. In Ateneo the Soc Dems were trashing the Nat Dems. Darn, the FQS was right in front of San Beda. WE eat and breathe fist pumping. May kasamang dugo pa! ;D

In La Salle, how did the students of the revolutionary 60s embraced this left-wing symbol?

danny
08-20-2010, 09:27 AM
Siya nga pala, the entire 12 Point Program of the NDF was even published in The Bedan during one point in time. ;)

danny
08-20-2010, 09:50 AM
...hindi nga ba't REBOLUSYON ang pangalan ng anak ni Atty. Saguisag. Ahem. :)

bchoter
08-20-2010, 10:51 AM
RE: the canned music

I would understand how UST needs canned music because their school song's pitch is too high to be sang by many in their crowd. But it hasn't escaped anyone's attention that they have such a thing as a Conservatory of Music which, last time I checked, is one of only two Centers of Excellence in Music in the entire country.

With all that talent and resources, all it takes is for some dean to order even just one talented professor or student to create an arrangement that enable the school song to be sung by the entire crowd.

=====

Speaking of Centers of Excellence in music, the only other school that has one - UP - still inexplicably uses canned music to sing "UP Naming Mahal". "Inexplicable" because people from UP can and do sing it. I think UP's UAAP reps just need to show a little more confidence in their own crowd and turn off the canned music.


Re: UST's Alma Mater using canned music:

There was a time last year in the shakey's v-league where the YJ led the acapella singing of UST's Alma Mater. Given that there is no canned music available, The YJ just used a drumbeat (similar to the snare pattern of Letran's Signature Yell/Derecho La Salle) as intro and the Tiger Pack was able to sing it well.
I cringe at the sound of the canned music whenever it is played. Aside from we prefer to sing it acapella, the music file sounds so scratched na parang mas marami pang kamot kesa sa 300-pound woman who just gave birth. The canned music was used ata when UST was the host school

danny
08-21-2010, 09:08 AM
From the other thread:





We had one success though last year when our cheerleaders were able to do Azu Ima again. It was more than 30 years since it was last cheered in an NCAA battle.


and there was also "san beda will win the game today", kuya. plus we reburied the rise of cheerdancing - :)
this year, we have the spanish cheer.



For those who want to hear the tune. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtzEMwJSX-w

danny
09-19-2010, 05:51 AM
Fist pumping during the days were only done by three schools where the students knew the Alma Mater Hymn by heart. By heart.

When San Beda came back to the NCAA, the Bedans were the only one who were fist pumping AND singing their Hymn. Prior to Ateneo and La Salle, there was no such thing in the UAAP.

What happened? How did this evolve into another common and expected act among fans of every school when the recorded school hymn is being played? Frankly the act has lost it's fire and brimstone aspect of defiance because of the corporate agenda of schools. It's now a freaking corporate script. Bland and common. Darn capitalists. Darn clerico-fascists.

BedanRoar
09-19-2010, 07:51 PM
Prior to the Alma Matter Hymn (Herald the Bedans...) San Beda is singing today. The Red and the White was the popular one amongst the OLDER Generation or the earlier Glorious days of the Red Lions(Tradition)!