PDA

View Full Version : Zeroing In On the Zebras



Pages : [1] 2

5FootCarrot
08-22-2006, 03:32 PM
The ejection of Coach Joe Lipa in last Sunday's Ateneo-UP game has drawn public attention to the supposed (?) bad blood between Lipa and NABRO, the referees' organization tasked to call this season's UAAP games. This has led me to think that there's a whole aspect of the sport that we have yet to discuss in detail, and that's the officiating.

This is a thread to discuss basketball officiating in this country - its current situation and any hot issues it is facing right now. Perhaps we can also use this thread to critique the officiating in certain situations, but please try to avoid turning this thread into a whine-fest because I'm sure you've already told Referee So-And-So what he did wrong the minute he did it and I'm also sure he richly deserved your castigation :P

For starters, I'd like to know about the setup. Is there more than one referees' organization in the Philippines? (Why didn't the UAAP get the other organization to officiate its games? Is there something wrong with that organization, too?)

BigBlue
08-22-2006, 03:40 PM
nauhanan mo ako to make a thread on this! although was thinking of focusing on UAAP Officiating, which would include rules, and comments on referees, etc.

can we include discussions on game rules here? i'm particularly critical of the "no hand check" rule that's being enforced now. it was implemented to make for a faster game with more slashing to the basket, and with less fouls. kaso, i dont think the players are adjusting too well, the result being too many unnecessary fouls. is the rule working?

and with regard to the referee's orgs, i think BARECOM is the other Referee group. Buhay pa ba yung group na binuo ni Chot Reyes? The Asian Basketball Academy (i think)?

Kid Cubao
08-22-2006, 04:01 PM
mukhang nakapag-adjust naman ang ateneo sa no handcheck rule, kasi isa o dalawa pa lang ang nag-foul out sa team so far. hanggang kahapon, wala pang talo ang ateneo, kaya sa tingin ko nakapag-adjust na tayo. ewan ko yung ibang team, pero di na natin problema yun hehehe!

5FootCarrot
08-22-2006, 04:35 PM
BigBlue, I intended this thread to cover UAAP officiating as well as that in other leagues :)



can we include discussions on game rules here?

I think discussions on rules and regulations (including comments on how they've affected the game) belong in the Hardcore Hoops 101 thread; however, we can discuss the enforcement of said rules here and how this has affected the way the game is played.

Sam Miguel
08-22-2006, 09:17 PM
Being a referee is a thankless job, kind of like being an alumni director, an NBA coach, or President of a developing country.

That being said I believe getting on the bad side of the referees is not the way to go. In smaller venues especially it is impossible not to be heard. Taking the human error out of refereeing is next to impossible, simply because all the calls are based strictly on one person's judgment. I believe if there is anything that is needed now in officiating it must be consistency. One ref's charging foul cannot be another ref's blocking foul, imaginary cylinder or not.

And technical fouls on coaches and the bench should be abolished because it is ridiculous. If things truly get out of hand it should not be the referees ejecting coaches or players, it should be a tournament or league official. That is why it is imperative that at least one such official is persent at any given game. The onus of tossing anyone for behavior deemed intolerable or even outrightly harmful should not be put on the men making just a bit over minimum wage on the average.

Joescoundrel
08-22-2006, 09:38 PM
As Cubao often says "The refs are consistently inconsistent." And that I believe is why we just love to hate the guys with the whistles.

Still, having been a basketball fan for so long I have long gotten over getting in the referees' faces. I leave that to others who may want to blow off some steam, or anything else they may want to blow off on the zebras for that matter.

Here is my take on things: Unless we totally take the human factor out of officiating i.e. get rid of the refs altogether, we will never get a perfectly called game, and we will never hear the end of fans having choice words for the men in grey and black. So if we somehow develop the technology through the use of digital pressure sensors and timers, then and only then can we get the perfect game. It would, I think, be a boring game by then but at least the more critical fans will finally get their wish.

For as long as we have the human factor, eyes, ears, reflexes, perceptions and judgments in play (meaning for as long as we have human beings blowing the whistles) we will always have cause to hurl invectives and hate at the refs. Is this fair? Absolutely not. Unfortunately that's how it is and the refs have actually grown quite immune to the whole thing. Unless someone actually physically assaults them or shoots them the refs know better than to get into a pissing contest with fans.

*I often wonder who has a more dangerous job: a Philippine Navy NSWG Commando assigned in Marag Valley, or a UAAP referee. Because these seem to be the people who have mastered the art and craft of immediate escape.*

As to the issue of refs involved in gamefixing and other such shenanigans, well, there are ways to determine whether or not they did these things. Usually applying the right kind of questioning techniques, such as the use of a metal bucket with water, a diesel battery and some jumper cables, will get the answers sought by a fair and impartial investigation. On the more specific issue of whether or not NABRO has it in for Joe Lipa, I don't actually think so. Referees and their associations usually put the likes of Coach Joe on a pedestal because you never know if he will be named Commish or Director in a league who might provide you with gainful employment.

On the question of other referee associations, I don't know if BARECOM is still around. I believe the PBA now has its own Referee Academy, or something like that. BAP also has a referee pool.

Sam Miguel
08-22-2006, 11:12 PM
Everybody talks about "FIBA rules" whenever officiating is the topic. I often wonder: how much of the FIBA rules do we actually adopt in the various leagues here in the Philippines anyway? I know we have different rules in the PBA, with longer running game times, timeouts and even rules on timeouts. I think they also still totally disallow the borderline goaltending very much allowed in the international FIBA-sanctioned tournaments like the Worlds and the Olympics. Fullfledged tent-pitching zones are also not fully allowed in professional leagues like the NBA where they have their defensive 3-second rule.

What about the UAAP? Everyone keeps pointing to FIBA rules from team officials to board members. Which FIBA rules are being used in the UAAP? I don't believe the whole FIBA rulebook is being implemented. More importantly are the referees fully apprised of these rules, and do they get sufficient briefing and training to implement these rules? I believe the inconsistency in officiating can be traced directly to a lack of appreciation and comprehension of the rules by the referrees themselves. Thus I cannot fully lay the blame on the referees. If anything, tournament organizers should get together with all the referees who will be calling games and fully apprise them in some sort of seminar or workshop prior to the tournament.

Referees should also not be T happy. And they should always have pregame conferences with the teams who will be playing, not just the coaches and team captains. Situations like the ones that took place in a weekend NAASCU playdate related elsewhere in this site could have easily been avoided had the officials made things explicitly clear about what they would and would not tolerate in the game. I think it is a positive thing that some referees actually yell out to players if they think players are pushing their luck, "O-o! Kamay ha, kamay!" "Tuhod natin, tuhod natin, ayusin niyo!" There are also some referees who explain to players and coaches in-game how they are calling it and how they intend to call it.

chocoks77
08-23-2006, 12:29 AM
These men need to be on their toes for the whole duration of the game. Their only breaks are the timeouts and the quarter ends. They need to be fit all throughout. Players take rests when subbed. Coaches think for the whole game but they don't run the floor, our referees have to be in the game running and concentrating . Sure do, referees get tired too. They also have different sight angles unlike us fans who see games on our side only. Some glaring bad calls deserve the heckle from us to keep them alert and on their toes. I have not seen refs being saluted for a job well done, whether there were a lot of good calls or should I say, a minimum of bad calls.

I have been playing in leagues from the ABL to kanto ligas to friendly games with player referees and our own kind of "biased" refereeing especially in practice and ice-tubig pustahan games. They help a lot and communicate a lot with the players. I appreciate their workmanship at the end of the game whether they did well or not. I do not know whether I am bringing my point across.

The only problem I see is when referees get confrontational or when the game's emotions are unto him or them which would in turn affect their unbiased judgment. This is what should be limited or eliminated. This situation goes side by side with the biases.

Kid Cubao
08-23-2006, 05:29 AM
sakto ka dyan chokoks!

aside from those already posted and explained, ang sa akin magkaroon sana ng sistema of checks and balances and close coordination ang mga refs. sa laro, dapat parating may tumatayong SENIOR REF who is mandated to overrule whatever erroneous non-judgment call was whistled by a JUNIOR REF. they should work as a team, and they should acknowledge the fact that they'll never call a perfect game. that should motivate them to keep improving their craft. likewise, it would help immensely if they download the latest copy of the FIBA rulebook, which also contains the latest rules interpretations currently enforced in the 2006 worlds.

Sam Miguel
08-23-2006, 11:11 PM
How about instituting a slo-mo rule like in the NFL? Except how the heck is this going to happen in smaller leagues?

brian
08-23-2006, 11:18 PM
i still have to see a referee who admits to having made an inadvertent call, in any of the local leagues..sa nba may nakita na ako na binawi ang call dahil nagkamali ang ref...

dito nada!!!

5FootCarrot
08-24-2006, 07:59 AM
i still have to see a referee who admits to having made an inadvertent call, in any of the local leagues..sa nba may nakita na ako na binawi ang call dahil nagkamali ang ref...

dito nada!!!

I haven't seen any calls reversed here either. However, I have observed that after making a major boo-boo against one team, refs sometimes make ticky-tacky/stupid calls against the other team, apparently to atone for their mistake. I think we call them "bawi" calls; in hockey slang they are called Revlons ("make-up" calls).

LION
08-24-2006, 08:04 AM
i still have to see a referee who admits to having made an inadvertent call, in any of the local leagues..sa nba may nakita na ako na binawi ang call dahil nagkamali ang ref...

dito nada!!!


This happened in yesterday's game between San Beda and PCU. *Riego Gamalinda of San Beda collared the rebound but the ball was tapped by a PCU player.The ball touched *Gamalinda's knee but hit the foot of the PCU player before going out of bounds. The ref blew his whistle signalling ball possession for PCU. However, *the ref again blew his whistle to rectify his mistake and gave ball possession to San Beda. *

The referee corrected himself even before the aggrieved player/team could protest the call.

Meanwhile, I think Referee No. 8, the one with the bald head, has no business officiating in a basketball game. *The way he acted yesterday, it looked like he was there to facilitate a loss for San Beda. *He was trigger happy against San Beda. I don't think he ever called a foul against the PCU players.

Dapat yan ang imbestigahan ng NBI.

Mel
08-24-2006, 10:22 AM
Refs in the big leagues are supposed to be the best in their field....
....dapat a cut above sila compared to the refs sa mga barangay/corporate leagues.

christian
08-24-2006, 01:22 PM
i still have to see a referee who admits to having made an inadvertent call, in any of the local leagues..sa nba may nakita na ako na binawi ang call dahil nagkamali ang ref...

dito nada!!!


This happened in yesterday's game between San Beda and PCU. *Riego Gamalinda of San Beda collared the rebound but the ball was tapped by a PCU player.The ball touched *Gamalinda's knee but hit the foot of the PCU player before going out of bounds. The ref blew his whistle signalling ball possession for PCU. However, *the ref again blew his whistle to rectify his mistake and gave ball possession to San Beda. *

The referee corrected himself even before the aggrieved player/team could protest the call.

Meanwhile, I think Referee No. 8, the one with the bald head, has no business officiating in a basketball game. *The way he acted yesterday, it looked like he was there to facilitate a loss for San Beda. *He was trigger happy against San Beda. I don't think he ever called a foul against the PCU players.

Dapat yan ang imbestigahan ng NBI.






correct ka dyan sir, twice ko nakita yung ref na yun dinuro ni espinas wala man lang warning when it should have been a technical foul.

Wang-Bu
08-24-2006, 04:54 PM
Dapat siguro may maupakan ulit na ref, parang 'yung binarog nina Jawo at Big Boy nung araw. Ewan ko lang kung hindi matauhan ang mga lintek na 'yan.

Pero sa totoo lang mukhang mas OK nga yata na magkaroon ng slo-mo rule sa NCAA at UAAP kung saan mas maigting ang damdamin ng mga manlalaro at manonood gawa ng school pride. Ganito kaya__

1. Pwedeng humingi ng slo-mo review ang isang team maximum na dalawang beses lang sa isang laro. Para nga naman hindi maging abuso.

2. Kapag naipakita sa slo-mo na mali ang isang tawag, dapat bawiin kagad ito at ibigay ang bola sa nararapat na koponan.

3. Kapag naipakita sa slo-mo na tama ang tawag, may bonus na dalawang freethrow plus possession sa kalaban na koponan nung humingi ng slo-mo review.

4. Kapag ang isang ref ay nakaipon ng at least apat na maling slo-mo review na tawag, suspendido siya without pay para sa dalawang laro.

5. Kapag nakaipon pa din ang ref na iyon ng at least walong napatunayang maling tawag gawa ng slo-mo review, suspended na siya for the tournament.

6. Kapag nakaipon na siya ng doseng palpak na tawag lifetime ban na siya sa liga.

7. Pasok lahat ng call at non-call sa slo-mo review.

'Yon nga lang, para namang naging masyado ng bading ang laro kapag nagkaroon ng ganitong sistema...

chocoks77
08-24-2006, 06:12 PM
i still have to see a referee who admits to having made an inadvertent call, in any of the local leagues..sa nba may nakita na ako na binawi ang call dahil nagkamali ang ref...

dito nada!!!


In an ABL game, i was called for a very ticky tacky body check foul while I was just standing and the offensive player just gazing sa side ko. One ref blew his whistle to my surprise. I protested calmly about the call. pero side court throw in so the ref was not able to give me an answer. I approached him when the 1st half ended. His reply was..."pasesnsya na pre, napapito na ako e, kailangan ko ng tumawag ng foul."

Wang-Bu
08-24-2006, 08:37 PM
i still have to see a referee who admits to having made an inadvertent call, in any of the local leagues..sa nba may nakita na ako na binawi ang call dahil nagkamali ang ref...

dito nada!!!


In an ABL game, i was called for a very ticky tacky body check foul while I was just standing and the offensive player just gazing sa side ko. One ref blew his whistle to my surprise. I protested calmly about the call. pero side court throw in so the ref was not able to give me an answer. I approached him when the 1st half ended. His reply was..."pasesnsya na pre, napapito na ako e, kailangan ko ng tumawag ng foul."


Buti na lang abe hindi mo sinapak sabay sabing "Pasensiya na pare, nakasa ko ng kamao ko e..."

bluewing
08-25-2006, 03:43 AM
NABRO:

National Asosasyon of Barangay Reps and Opisyals

Kid Cubao
08-25-2006, 05:11 AM
i don't really agree to slo-mo reviews in basketball because of its mixed track record in the NFL, but if it were adopted in the UAAP and PBA, i suggest the following policies:

1. slo-mo reviews can only be used for non-judgment call challenges. personal fouls fall outside its jurisdiction.

2. a team is allowed to challenge a ref's call or non-call as long as it still has timeouts remaining. here is the reason:

2.1 if after further review, the slo-mo replay resulted in pointing out a missed call by the refs, the protesting team gets possession of the ball.

2.2 however, if after further review, the slo-mo showed that the referee was right all along, the protesting team gets docked with a timeout. this measure shall discourage the abuse of this special privilege.

brian
08-25-2006, 11:02 AM
i still have to see a referee who admits to having made an inadvertent call, in any of the local leagues..sa nba may nakita na ako na binawi ang call dahil nagkamali ang ref...

dito nada!!!

I haven't seen any calls reversed here either. However, I have observed that after making a major boo-boo against one team, refs sometimes make ticky-tacky/stupid calls against the other team, apparently to atone for their mistake. I think we call them "bawi" calls; in hockey slang they are called Revlons ("make-up" calls).


which is worse...a deliberate bad call ha ha!....kelan kaya magbabago ang mga "fools" na eto..

brian
08-25-2006, 11:10 AM
i still have to see a referee who admits to having made an inadvertent call, in any of the local leagues..sa nba may nakita na ako na binawi ang call dahil nagkamali ang ref...

dito nada!!!


This happened in yesterday's game between San Beda and PCU. *Riego Gamalinda of San Beda collared the rebound but the ball was tapped by a PCU player.The ball touched *Gamalinda's knee but hit the foot of the PCU player before going out of bounds. The ref blew his whistle signalling ball possession for PCU. However, *the ref again blew his whistle to rectify his mistake and gave ball possession to San Beda. *

The referee corrected himself even before the aggrieved player/team could protest the call.

Meanwhile, I think Referee No. 8, the one with the bald head, has no business officiating in a basketball game. *The way he acted yesterday, it looked like he was there to facilitate a loss for San Beda. *He was trigger happy against San Beda. I don't think he ever called a foul against the PCU players.

Dapat yan ang imbestigahan ng NBI.






lion,

sa tap out, yes, there are reversal of calls especially regarding possessions.. however, wala pa akong nakikitang referee na tumawag ng foul, for instance, tas binawi..sa nba meron na akong nakita..si joey crawford ata yun, tumawag ng foul tas ni recall..

dito nga, tatawag na ng blocking foul, pero pag naunahan tawagin ng ibang ref na charging, it would stick..

brian
08-25-2006, 11:15 AM
i still have to see a referee who admits to having made an inadvertent call, in any of the local leagues..sa nba may nakita na ako na binawi ang call dahil nagkamali ang ref...

dito nada!!!


In an ABL game, i was called for a very ticky tacky body check foul while I was just standing and the offensive player just gazing sa side ko. One ref blew his whistle to my surprise. I protested calmly about the call. pero side court throw in so the ref was not able to give me an answer. I approached him when the 1st half ended. His reply was..."pasesnsya na pre, napapito na ako e, kailangan ko ng tumawag ng foul."


inamin pa niya yun ah ha ha! sakit ata ng tlaga pinoy ang pag nagkamali, pinaninindigan eh ha ha!.....

brian
08-25-2006, 11:20 AM
the worst officiating i have ever witnessed was when this certain ref called a technical foul on a fan of coca cola...chot reyes was pleading him to point out in particular who among his coaching staff the call was made out to ( since bench technical)...di maturo ng ref, kasi fan pala yun....the referee stuck to his call..amazing!!!

chocoks77
08-25-2006, 11:40 AM
Why can't our basketball refs be like the NBA refs or compare themselves with the refs of football/soccer?

Sam Miguel
08-25-2006, 01:11 PM
In the NBA there is a system of checks and counter-checks when it comes to officiating. There are several levels of review from the actual game officials all the way to the chief of officiating.

Level 1: The refs who called the game each submit a report on the following: calls they thought they called right, calls they thought they missed, calls they thought they should not have made [YES THAT'S RIGHT, THEY EVEN INCLUDE THEIR OWN PERCEIVED MISTAKES]

Level 2: They then view the game video from many different camera angles to see if they were right about their calls and noncalls and missed calls and they make a separate report on the video

Level 3: They review the video this time with the officiating supervisor for that particular game, again to make a check on the calls, noncalls and missed calls, and that chief makes his own report along with the reports already submitted

Level 4: The all of these guys will review the video yet again with the one of the NBA front office officiating chiefs who will also make his own report

Bottomline: If somebody makes a mess of things they will surely get caught and will surely be reprimanded or sanctioned, and this will go on their permanent record for purposes of personnel evaluation

I wonder if there is any league in this country that does things this way?

bluewing
08-25-2006, 01:50 PM
Why can't our basketball refs be like the NBA refs or compare themselves with the refs of football/soccer?



baka mas nakaka-identify sila sa mga refs ng wwe. puro mga tanga.

LION
08-25-2006, 02:00 PM
i still have to see a referee who admits to having made an inadvertent call, in any of the local leagues..sa nba may nakita na ako na binawi ang call dahil nagkamali ang ref...

dito nada!!!


This happened in yesterday's game between San Beda and PCU. *Riego Gamalinda of San Beda collared the rebound but the ball was tapped by a PCU player.The ball touched *Gamalinda's knee but hit the foot of the PCU player before going out of bounds. The ref blew his whistle signalling ball possession for PCU. However, *the ref again blew his whistle to rectify his mistake and gave ball possession to San Beda. *

The referee corrected himself even before the aggrieved player/team could protest the call.

Meanwhile, I think Referee No. 8, the one with the bald head, has no business officiating in a basketball game. *The way he acted yesterday, it looked like he was there to facilitate a loss for San Beda. *He was trigger happy against San Beda. I don't think he ever called a foul against the PCU players.

Dapat yan ang imbestigahan ng NBI.






lion,

sa tap out, yes, there are reversal of calls especially regarding possessions.. however, wala pa akong nakikitang referee na tumawag ng foul, for instance, tas binawi..sa nba meron na akong nakita..si joey crawford ata yun, tumawag ng foul tas ni recall..

dito nga, tatawag na ng blocking foul, pero pag naunahan tawagin ng ibang ref na charging, it would stick..

Salamat brian.

brian
08-25-2006, 05:14 PM
walang anuman lion he he!

AnthonyServinio
08-26-2006, 10:43 PM
Let's make a poll . . . Who are the best referees in the Philippines?

a. PBA
b. PBL
c. BAP/BARECOM
d. NABRO
e. BRUSCAA
f. none of the above

I wonder who will win?

bluewing
08-26-2006, 11:52 PM
mas magaling pa yata yung dalawang manong sa college covered courts. yung kambal!

john_paul_manahan
08-27-2006, 07:36 PM
gusto ko lang ulitin.... NABRO Bulok!

Sam Miguel
08-28-2006, 08:10 PM
Referees are human too...

arhtmahn
08-29-2006, 12:02 AM
As much as I want to blame the referees for making inopportune calls at the ADMU-UST game yesterday, I can't because the inept officiating cut both ways. I believe that the very clear issue that has emerged with NABRO is just plain incompetence, not partiality.

spirit65
08-29-2006, 08:47 AM
This discussion moved from the BEN

some alumni are trying to put together a position paper addressed to the uaap* board regarding what we feel is spotty officiating at best on the part of nabro.

there is some hesitation because coming from a loss it might come off as sour graping on our part.

can gameface catalyze something that would involve other schools who feel nabro officiating is not up to par.* offhand i believe up was not too happy with nabro during the ateneo up game.*

i think we should put on notice nabro that they have to be on their toes for the remaining games kasi sayang lahat ng effort ng players of all teams if the games will be decided by questionable calls.*

oca
08-29-2006, 09:03 AM
To take this initiative, coming of a defeat... yes, sounds like sour graping. Kahit na magkaroon ng collective action, pero dahil dito nagmula ang action...it just doesn't look good.

easter
08-29-2006, 09:07 AM
Actually talagang sour graping ang mangyayari nyan. Di yan maganda at walang maidudulot a mabuti. Lahat ng leagues may pangit na officiating kahit FIBA nga eh minsan pangit pa rin.

I think let us live with the calls kasi lahat naman ng teams tinatamaan nyang spotty officiating. During the UST game meron din naman calls na against sa kanila kaso mas mukhang vocal lang Ateneo kasi marami sila sa coliseum. Aminin na natin talo talaga tayo sa laro na yun and we really don't deserve to win that thing kasi we didn't work as hard as UST.

Talo talaga accept it and move on.

Apocrypha
08-29-2006, 09:23 AM
I'm not sure I buy into this either. The officiating has been less than stellar since the season started, so why just submit a position paper now, after a loss? The best time to have done this was right after the first round, but that time has come and gone.

The only way this makes sense is if we feel that it is impossible to win games because of the officiating. It makes it harder, but not impossible. Now if there is solid proof that the refs are deliberately sabotaging the team's efforts, than that is another story.

Lucas Palaka
08-29-2006, 11:58 AM
Coming out with a position paper denouncing the spotty officiating this season is perhaps the best way to get into the bad graces of the host school. First, what good will it do? Second, don't you think this comes across as unsolicited and unwelcome advice on how the Commissioner, who is appointed by the host school, should be running the affairs of the basketball events? Third, why come out with a critical position paper in the aftermath of a loss?

Huwag na lang po. Kung talo, talo. Di naman araw-araw Pasko.

spirit65
08-29-2006, 12:02 PM
Actually talagang sour graping ang mangyayari nyan. Di yan maganda at walang maidudulot a mabuti. Lahat ng leagues may pangit na officiating kahit FIBA nga eh minsan pangit pa rin.

I think let us live with the calls kasi lahat naman ng teams tinatamaan nyang spotty officiating. During the UST game meron din naman calls na against sa kanila kaso mas mukhang vocal lang Ateneo kasi marami sila sa coliseum. Aminin na natin talo talaga tayo sa laro na yun and we really don't deserve to win that thing kasi we didn't work as hard as UST.

Talo talaga accept it and move on.


I have accepted the loss as due more to ust's playing well and our playing badly.

but i feel bad or inconsistent officiating spoils what could have been a great game, spoiled it for us, spoiled it for ust. *

this paper is not to salvage a win from the ust loss - its more to put nabro on notice that they have to come up with more consistent and competent calls (mas may epekto pa ang non-calls - and many times it is not the number of bad or non calls but the timing of the call or non call which breaks a team's momentum or rhythm. *

sayang ang remaining games, ang effort ng lahat ng players who have been practicing and working hard all season long if crucial games will be decided by incompetent calls.

and reading from the zeroing on the zebras and up forum on the ateneo up game, it is not just the sentiment of the ateneo community.

full battle gear
08-29-2006, 12:13 PM
I've merged the NABRO thread which originated from the BEN to this thread. You may continue all discussions about the officiating here.

Discussions are not limited to any particular league or team nor to negative comments only. Positive comments for the referees, if any, are most welcome.

Lucas Palaka
08-29-2006, 12:14 PM
spirit65, what I gathered in the grapevine is that the referees in charge this season have already been strongly warned by Commissioner Yanga to get their acts together in view of documented cases of sheer inconsistencies and outright blown calls in UAAP games. If I'm not mistaken, the league office has been receiving a steady stream of requests for clarifications, complete with videotaped clips neatly assembled in video discs, coming from coaches of member schools.

jembengzon
08-29-2006, 12:26 PM
lukas, i hope it's not only their consistently blown calls but their attitude towards refereeing the games in general that are flagged.* during one instance during the UST-ADMU game, after one of them called a foul on rabeh, and rabeh was complaining, the ref turned to rabeh and was mouthing off, "* OH ANO, ANO ?.." daring rabeh to continue so he could T him up.* coach john flores of the ADMU women's team, and coach joe lipa of UP have been singled out, as well as coach manny dandan, in my opinion.* may kwento nga si coach john na nagkita nga sila ng ref before a game, kailangan pang awatin yung ref ng mga kasama niya !* diba "impartial" yan ?* ;D

para silang mga baranggay tanod na binigyan lang ng patpat, feeling all authority na sila, and their calls should dictate the action.* that in itself is attitudinal, which results* in incompetence.

easter
08-29-2006, 01:01 PM
I have accepted the loss as due more to ust's playing well and our playing badly.

but i feel bad or inconsistent officiating spoils what could have been a great game, spoiled it for us, spoiled it for ust.
this paper is not to salvage a win from the ust loss - its more to put nabro on notice that they have to come up with more consistent and competent calls (mas may epekto pa ang non-calls - and many times it is not the number of bad or non calls but the timing of the call or non call which breaks a team's momentum or rhythm.

sayang ang remaining games, ang effort ng lahat ng players who have been practicing and working hard all season long if crucial games will be decided by incompetent calls.

and reading from the zeroing on the zebras and up forum on the ateneo up game, it is not just the sentiment of the ateneo community.


Again why complain only now. Noong UP game walang narinig sa atin ah bakit kaya? Kasi panalo tayo? Magiging katawa-tawa ang Ateneo niyan! Kung gusto nila magreklamo please lang wag nila irepresent na Ateneo yan kasi I am sure madaming Atenista ang di pabor dyan because mali talaga kahit saan anggulo tingnan.

Ito pa. Mas lalong pag-iinitan ng refs nyan ang Ateneo. Biro mo matalo ng isa sinisi refs! Dito masasayang ang lahat ng pagsisikap ng Ateneo. Plus it will dampen the glow of UST's victory! Mahiya naman tayo panalo talaga sila doon sa larong yun.

bluewing
08-29-2006, 01:14 PM
i agree that igniting flames against the chefs would only do our team more harm than good. masasama tayo sa kanilang "hit list" at pag-iinitan tayo sa natitirang tatlong game, and even in the post-elims. we don't need this right now.

at naging consistent naman ang chefs buong season eh. wala naman yatang laro na matino ang mga tawag. nagkataon lang na natalo tayo kaya natural lang na may maninisi sa mga chefs. hayaan na natin.


pero sino nga ba yung henyo na umarkila sa NABRO? at bakit NABRO? may kumapare ba sila roon? mas mura ang bayad? nagtitipid ba ang host? bakit? BAKEEEET?

Mel
08-29-2006, 01:46 PM
the UAAP lacks a personality that is bigger than the league.

The NBA had Jordan..PBA ..Jaworski

NBA refs feared Jordan...who could easiy phone his lover, David Stern, to fire a ref when needed.
yes Jaworski got his share of technicals...but I'm sure Jun B. and Rudy Salud were made aware of
the call by the Big J himself.

BigBlue
08-29-2006, 02:42 PM
if it were a combined effort, meaning concerned fans from different schools, raise the complaints, would that help?

Kid Cubao
08-29-2006, 03:51 PM
actually they're already doing that in their own respective ways :)

sana lang the referees would look at the whole thing in a constructive manner, but as jembengzon pointed out, it appears that some are taking it personally. para sa akin, pag umabot na sa ganyan na halos manugod na ng coaches at team officials yung ibang refs, dapat wag nang payagang pumito sa laro.

Joescoundrel
08-29-2006, 05:05 PM
Coach John Flores was practically pleading to my ever so-hyperactive friend Atenista_Comm to please stop getting on the case of the officials in their last game against the FEU Lady Tamaraws. Comm was far off to another side of the stands and I couldn't reach him, so Coach John had to frantically wave his arms up at him to stop him from giving the ref crew working that game his usual sweet nothings from the bottom of his blue and white heart. Apparently Coach John was deathly worried that Comm's patented histrionics would rub the officials the wrong way and they would then take it out on the team. Well, from where I was standing the officiating seemed none the worse for Comm's verbal wear. Even Coach John had to grudgingly admit that the calls were even (mostly, anyway). John's been around the game a long time and has practically been there-done that, so I take his word for it when he says he does not want to piss off officials. I know that a lot of big name coaches, team managers, players and even utility guys, make it a point to schmooze with refs. As Sam Miguel pointed out they really are just human too, very much susceptible to the foibles and temptations that we are all subject to.

Still I have to wonder: Have refs become really this powerful? Even setting aside criminal intent (such as gamefixing, etc...) what can we really expect from the refs? Apparently as far as NABRO is concerned we can expect nothing but incompetence. This is no longer about blown calls or even missed calls that favor one side or another. This is simply about making the right calls the first time around as much as possible. These Revlon calls don't make things better or make up for past mistakes. It's like shooting somebody in the stomach and then shooting him in the legs to make him forget the pain in his stomach. It doesn't take a genius to be a referee. But I do believe it is the responsibility of tournament organizers and hosts to make absolutely certain that they get officials who can at least do the job right.

If all else fails, P22 lang ang isang 9mm na bala...

bluewing
08-29-2006, 06:14 PM
gagastos ka pa. mas mura ang tubo.

admu_addict
08-30-2006, 01:58 AM
gagastos ka pa. mas mura ang tubo.


kutsara pare, un ang pinakamura. masakit pa pag sinaksak at pinantanggal mo ng puso nila.

sorry gross OT. :D

LION
08-30-2006, 08:18 AM
If all else fails, P22 lang ang isang 9mm na bala...



Medyo makati yan Joe. Baka kamutin lang nila hehehe. :)

spirit65
08-30-2006, 11:36 AM
spirit65, what I gathered in the grapevine is that the referees in charge this season have already been strongly warned by Commissioner Yanga to get their acts together in view of documented cases of sheer inconsistencies and outright blown calls in UAAP games. If I'm not mistaken, the league office has been receiving a steady stream of requests for clarifications, complete with videotaped clips neatly assembled in video discs, coming from coaches of member schools.


i am glad to hear this in contrast to all the gripes about the referees and their inconsitent calls aired in this forum followed by but dont raise any issue baka pag-initan tayo.*

anyway rest assured to all, I and my friend decided to write our complaints to jun jun capistrano and ricky palou for them to take whatever action they deem necessary.*

bluetruck
08-30-2006, 02:16 PM
1. does anybody know who the head of nabro is? kanino kaya sila nakasandal?

2. uaap last used them when dlsu was the host. i wonder why ue decided to hire them. is there a pumaren connection?

just asking.

bluewing
08-30-2006, 03:10 PM
1.* does anybody know who the head of nabro is?* kanino kaya sila nakasandal?

2.* uaap last used them when dlsu was the host.* i wonder why ue decided to hire them.* is there a pumaren connection?*

just asking.



meron di ba?

BigBlue
08-30-2006, 03:41 PM
1. does anybody know who the head of nabro is? kanino kaya sila nakasandal?
2. uaap last used them when dlsu was the host. i wonder why ue decided to hire them. is there a pumaren connection?
just asking.


well, if you mention that, perhaps other schools might throw the same rock back at us for hiring Chot Reyes' Asian Basketball Academy Refs when we were hosts (although i dont recall that season to have had complaints about officiating).

I guess, it leads us back to the fact that the UAAP is led primarily by people with selfish interests in mind. While leadership does move around amongst the member-schools, it somehow gets tainted with "its my turn to do what i want" mentality. the host school gets to choose the commissioner, thus the commissioner is subject to doubts over his partiality. i recall the uproar from the green side when Ateneo appointed Lipa as commish when we were hosts, while Yanga, if i'm not mistaken, is a UE grad (although because of his track record, hardly anyone complained). The host school also handles scheduling, venues, selecting the refereeing body, ticket distribution... etc.

In my view, what the UAAP needs is an independent Commisioner with enough power to enforce strict and impartial rules. the present 8-member board has been prone to stupid, knee-jerk rule changes which have affected the league the past years: saldana rule (2 year residency for those who spent HS abroad), the gavino/vanio rule (no more masteral students-players), the franz pumaren rule (the champion coach gets coach of the year award),.. the list goes on and on.

While these items might go beyond the scope of the refs, it points to poor leadership decisions, which might be the reason why we have such poor officiating

Sam Miguel
08-30-2006, 06:35 PM
From yahoosports...

Team USA adjusts to physical play in FIBA world championships
By ANDREW BAGNATO, AP Sports Writer
August 30, 2006

SAITAMA, Japan (AP) -- Early in the FIBA world championships, U.S. captain Carmelo Anthony let his younger teammates in on a secret of international basketball.

"They were kind of looking for the foul and we were like, 'Look, ain't no fouls over here,"' Anthony said. "'You gotta play through it and if you get a foul, you get a foul. If not then you keep playing."'

ADVERTISEMENT
Through its first six games in the tournament, Team USA has had to adjust to the officials as much as the opposition. International basketball is far more physical than the NBA, which has taken strides to streamline the game by cracking down on handchecks and illegal screens. Team USA managing director Jerry Colangelo helped lead the cleanup effort when he owned the Phoenix Suns.

"The NBA game has changed some and in the NBA it's not as physical," U.S. captain Dwyane Wade said.

"Physical" is a nice way of describing FIBA basketball. "Brutal" might be more accurate.

In Argentina's second-round game against New Zealand, Argentina's Andres Nocioni was felled by a forearm to the throat on a halfcourt pick. Everyone in Saitama Super Arena saw the blow -- except for the officials, who allowed play to continue while Nocioni writhed on the floor.

In Spain's quarterfinal victory over Lithuania on Tuesday, Spanish center Pau Gasol shoved an opponent over the baseline as they battled for a rebound. As Gasol snared the ball and laid it into the basket, the Lithuanian bench erupted.

The call? Two points for Spain.

"When you get over here the refs let a lot of things go on both sides, when we get physical and also when our opposing team gets physical," Wade said. "We had to get used to it, but now we kind of understand how the game goes a little bit better and we're able to be physical and be able to take some of the hits that come."

With an average victory margin of 26 points in its first six games, the U.S. hasn't had much reason to gripe about the officials. The statistics indicate that the U.S. has adapted to the different style of play. The Americans have made more free throws (136) than their opponents have attempted (117) and have been called for 44 fewer personal fouls.

Still, players have had to figure out what's a foul and what's not.

Moving screens, for example, are typically allowed here.

"It's just a different kind of physical," center Brad Miller said. "There are certain things that are automatic fouls here that aren't in the NBA and vice versa. Here you can push off almost at any given time, create space for your shot, where in the NBA you can't do that. You can handcheck and face guard internationally, you can't back home. Some of what is allowed here is just a 180 (degree difference) from the NBA."

The Americans say they can take the physical style, even if it hurts at times. After Team USA worked out in Tokyo this week, trainers packed captain LeBron James in so much ice that he resembled one of the local fish delicacies.

Asked if he was tired of being banged on, James replied, "It don't matter. I played football my whole life. Basketball contact is nothing compared to football. I rarely feel it, to tell you the truth."

The U.S.' biggest adjustment has been to the officials. Unlike in the NBA, where players know what to expect from each official, it's difficult to predict how a FIBA crew will call a game.

"There's always physical play," Kirk Hinrich said. "But coming into each game, you just don't know what's going to happen. It's not like each game gets called a certain way the whole game. The first quarter they can just be calling crazy stuff, and the second quarter they can be calling nothing.

"It is a lot more physical and they get away with a lot more stuff," Hinrich said. "It's definitely a wilder game. That's one of the challenges we face is just adjusting to how the game's going."

Sam Miguel
08-30-2006, 06:37 PM
I wonder if this means the NABRO boys are actually just upholding FIBA standards...?

bluewing
08-30-2006, 11:44 PM
I guess, it leads us back to the fact that the UAAP is led primarily by people with selfish interests in mind. While leadership does move around amongst the member-schools, it somehow gets tainted with "its my turn to do what i want" mentality. the host school gets to choose the commissioner, thus the commissioner is subject to doubts over his partiality. i recall the uproar from the green side when Ateneo appointed Lipa as commish when we were hosts, while Yanga, if i'm not mistaken, is a UE grad (although because of his track record, hardly anyone complained). The host school also handles scheduling, venues, selecting the refereeing body, ticket distribution... etc.

In my view, what the UAAP needs is an independent Commisioner with enough power to enforce strict and impartial rules. the present 8-member board has been prone to stupid, knee-jerk rule changes which have affected the league the past years: saldana rule (2 year residency for those who spent HS abroad), the gavino/vanio rule (no more masteral students-players), the franz pumaren rule (the champion coach gets coach of the year award),.. the list goes on and on.

While these items might go beyond the scope of the refs, it points to poor leadership decisions, which might be the reason why we have such poor officiating




i agree. dapat nga may isang head honcho lang (preferably one with no connection with any of the member schools... like someone from san beda or something) and the school reps could function like the pba governors.

so ano na ang trabaho ng host?

siguro pwedeng taga-hanap ng venue. at tsaka yung paghahanda ng program sa opening. pero yung paghanap ng refs, pag-ayos ng schedules, at anumang maseselang aspeto na maaring manipulahin para sa ikalulugi ng isang team, dapat ayusin nila as a collegiate body. hindi yung host lang ag masusunod.

kung pwede lang sanang ateneo na lang ang host taun-taon para walang anomalya eh.... ops, ops! walang aangal! ;D

Lucas Palaka
08-31-2006, 05:32 AM
I guess the essense of the article is that, in the current Worlds, the United States has been able to adapt to the physical play allowed, not to mention the sheer inconsistencies, by the referees. Would that Ateneo take that lesson to heart and just do what it does best.

kryptonite
08-31-2006, 06:17 AM
That's the problem with referees from Amateur leagues like FIBA. They have a foul called "phantom foul". These guys are inconsistent in calling fouls. They think they are God inside the basketball court. Pag tiningnan mo ng masama, tatawagan ka agad ng Technical Foul.

brian
08-31-2006, 07:54 AM
bawal din kaya sa kanila maglulundag because "you are not an animal" ha ha!

easter
08-31-2006, 08:14 AM
I wonder if this means the NABRO boys are actually just upholding FIBA standards...?



Good point sir Sam! If the FIBA has inconsistent calls, why should we expect the NABRO refs to be above those standards. Hindi kaya meron sa rules ng FIBA na masyadong open sa subjective interpretations ng refs kaya nagiging inconsistent ang mga tawag.

Ateneo just has to play and don't mind the refs that much.

Kid Cubao
08-31-2006, 08:38 AM
kung babalikan natin ang kasaysayan ng FIBA world championships, mula noon hanggang ngayon ay makapal ang tawagan ng mga referees. that's because they just let the best players in the world play. of course, what complicates matters is the sheer diversity of the composition of the pool of referees--they come from tanzania, the dominican republic, japan, china, canada, germany, serbia, mauritius, everywhere. kaya ang nangyayari kanya-kanyang style ng pagtawag, which only goes to show that idiosyncracies can never be codified. that's the reality of international basketball, folks.

in contrast, in domestic leagues like the PBA, NCAA, and the UAAP, we do not have to deal with cross-cultural differences like in the worlds, so players and coaches can naturally expect a level of consistency across the board. for instance, the rules against hand-checking, hop steps, and what-have-you must be uniformly enforced. the fact that NABRO referees officiating in a local league, having learned the game of basketball and all its local quirks the way pinoys learned it, can't seem to arrive at a middle ground is a source of concern.

which brings me to this conclusion: to succeed in basketball, you must win not because of the referees, but in spite of the referees ;D

bluewing
08-31-2006, 10:16 AM
That's the problem with referees from Amateur leagues like FIBA. They have a foul called "phantom foul". These guys are inconsistent in calling fouls. They think they are God inside the basketball court. Pag tiningnan mo ng masama, tatawagan ka agad ng Technical Foul.



mga insecure lang yan. kaya ngayong may chance magmalaki, take fulla advantage sila.

bluewing
08-31-2006, 06:23 PM
the adamson-ue game is a classic game in terms of oficiating booboos.

pansinin nyo kung gaanong karaming bawi-calls ang tinawag ng mga ref due to their delay or inability in making crucial calls.

panay bawi sa next possession. nakaka-irita.

Sam Miguel
08-31-2006, 08:28 PM
Good point by Cubao.

May I just ask Cubao a few questions that he and his friend Romy Guevarra may be best able to answer:

1) FIBA is supposed to be the international governing body for the sport of basketball. What exactly does that mean anyway, "international governing body"?

2) Everyone talks of FIBA rules as if this was some kind of Hoops Bible. How many leagues in the world actually adopt these FIBA rules whole hog? Does the UAAP adopt FIBA rules en toto?

3) Shouldn't FIBA have its own training program and training center for its referees? For instance, how does a guy like Romy Guevarra become a recognized International Referee?

Perhaps these would make for better clarification.

Raging Blue
08-31-2006, 10:40 PM
Is Romy Guevarra, in any way, connected with NABRO?

Wang-Bu
08-31-2006, 11:13 PM
Si Mang Romy 'yung chief of officials nung nakaraang UAAP season nung Commissioner si Da Nose. Ewan kung NABRO member siya.

Kid Cubao
09-01-2006, 08:35 AM
Is Romy Guevarra, in any way, connected with NABRO?

tata romy, i heard, is the pinoy international ref to officiate in the most number of olympic and FIBA world basketball championship competitions. whch explains his ere at times, hehehe! i doubt if he's in any way connected with NABRO. if i'm not mistaken, rolando omampo, another former FIBA and PBA referee, is the NABRO technical head.

i think the main reason FIBA is an "international governing body" is because basketball is an olympic sport played all over the world. it is without any doubt the leading indoor team sport fast catching up to football in global popularity and mass appeal. therefore it is essential to establish the framework that would support the coordination, cooperation and strategy for national team competition and club competition, as well as the the improvement of structures and administrative and operational skills on the international, regional and national level. kaya talagang kinakailangan ng FIBA, pati na rin ng FIFA, FIVB, FINA, FIDE, at lahat ng mga governing bodies para sa mga olympic sports.

maybe others can try to answer sam miguel's other queries :)

easter
09-01-2006, 08:44 AM
2) Everyone talks of FIBA rules as if this was some kind of Hoops Bible. How many leagues in the world actually adopt these FIBA rules whole hog? Does the UAAP adopt FIBA rules en toto?



Correct me if I am wrong but I think the UAAP punishment for a flagrant or a technical foul is much more severe than in FIBA games. In the UAAP if you get a flagrant or technical foul, your opponent is awarded two freethrows and ball possession. In these year's World Championships, two freethrows lang ata ang binibigay then revert na ang possession.

clutchjedi
09-01-2006, 09:50 AM
Does the UAAP adopt FIBA rules en toto?


I guess not...for one, the UAAP doesn't use the trapezoidal FT lane that FIBA uses.

I was also curious as to whether the UAAP adopts the FIBA rule which allows touching the ball above the rim. Parang wala pa akong nakikitang gumagawa nito so I'm guessing hindi (it would be called as goaltending) ?*

kryptonite
09-01-2006, 10:03 PM
2) Everyone talks of FIBA rules as if this was some kind of Hoops Bible. How many leagues in the world actually adopt these FIBA rules whole hog? Does the UAAP adopt FIBA rules en toto?



Correct me if I am wrong but I think the UAAP punishment for a flagrant or a technical foul is much more severe than in FIBA games. In the UAAP if you get a flagrant or technical foul, your opponent is awarded two freethrows and ball possession. In these year's World Championships, two freethrows lang ata ang binibigay then revert na ang possession.


FIBA awards two FTs plus ball possession to opposing team. Dapat i-adopt na ng UAAP ang FIBA rules para unified rules na. Dapat lahat ng liga sa Pilipinas, FIBA rules para di tayo mahirapan sa International competitions. Look at the Euroleague, FIBA rules ginagamit. Kalimutan na natin ang NBA, wala naman ibinuga yun sa international competitions.

Mateen Cleaves
09-04-2006, 04:42 PM
The UAAP does use the FIBA rule book. Ang problema is that the refs will tell you that they have their own interpretation of the rules. :(

Wang-Bu
09-04-2006, 04:58 PM
The UAAP does use the FIBA rule book. Ang problema is that the refs will tell you that they have their own interpretation of the rules.* :(


Pwede ba 'yon? Sa pagkakaalala ko dapat dumadaan muna sa pagsasanay at pag-aaral ang referee tungkol sa mga alituntunin ng laro bago sila pagpituhin man lang, lalo na sa mga malalaking liga gaya ng UAAP at NCAA. Ang ibig bang sabihin nito sadyang inutil ang mga referee o talaga lang lintek sa pagka-bacteria ang mga Pinoy na referee kaya ganito ang asta nila?

chocoks77
09-17-2006, 06:44 PM
Grabe yung laro with Adamson, is it me whining or what? The zebras in the game where glaringly calling stupid calls for Adamson and violently non-calls for us. Yung isang undergoal hiphop move ni Bono. My brother who did not come from the Ateneo shouted travelling. All those who play basketball knew it was travelling. Replay showed it was travelling. The embrace by the neck foul of Gonzalgo on Chris was a mere foul. Coach Norman and the bench were whistled for technicals because of the refs incompetence. A tap on the ball due to the umbrella defense of Ford was called for a foul, while body nudge and bump on our players were non-calls as well. Oh well...dunno if there were bad calls called against Adamson as well.

jkad
09-17-2006, 06:56 PM
refs were calling all sorts of ticky-tacky hand check/daplis fouls against Ateneo while largely ignoring bumps and body tackles by Adamson.

Kid Cubao
09-17-2006, 07:40 PM
the referee that whistled the technical on coach black was the same ref that threw out coach lipa and the one who taunted rabeh in the 2nd round loss against UST. it appears to me this ref particularly relishes officiating in UP and ateneo games so he can get his licks on the players, coaches, and the fans of both schools. ewan ko ba kay commissioner yanga--the more you put up with these rejects, the more people will believe that a conspiracy against certain universities and personalities is afoot.

mangtsito
09-17-2006, 07:48 PM
I was watching both the Commish and Ato Badolato during the bad calls. No reaction whatsoever.

jkad
09-17-2006, 08:01 PM
the referee that whistled the technical on coach black was the same ref that threw out coach lipa and the one who taunted rabeh in the 2nd round loss against UST. it appears to me this ref particularly relishes officiating in UP and ateneo games so he can get his licks on the players, coaches, and the fans of both schools. ewan ko ba kay commissioner yanga--the more you put up with these rejects, the more people will believe that a conspiracy against certain universities and personalities is afoot.


The guy was indeed awful, but I don't think its the same one, look-a-like lang kasi matangkad rin.

chocoks77
09-17-2006, 09:16 PM
Grabe talaga. Hanggang ngayon kahit panalo ang Ateneo, hindi pa rin maubos sa isip ko na sobrang halata na the refs were looking and favoring the Adamson court. They were not in the middle. Anybody can answer kung meron ding bad calls na natanggap ang Adamson.

5FootCarrot
09-18-2006, 09:12 AM
Cubao, si Ref Scoundrel yung nag-T kay Coach Norm kahapon. The splotchy-faced doofus ref (who taunted Rabeh, etc.) was not working that game.

Bobo talaga yung mga tawag. Halatang nakikialam na naman sila sa point spread. >:(

bluewing
09-18-2006, 10:45 AM
pero championship material talaga ang ateneo. we won despite the evil refs.

professor
09-18-2006, 10:56 AM
Dear Denizens,

Watching the games between AdU and ADMU then UE and UST, one can not but wonder at the disparity in type of calls that refs made during the final four. In the first game, the refs were too sensitive and in the second were either blind or just pure let go. Its just coincidence that coach Jarencio came from Ginebra and he knows the nuances of refereeing.

I think it is high time that a study on the refs should be made. A committee will review the past game tapes and do an individual analysis of the refs. A statistical analysis of wrong calls, no calls, ticky-tacky calls, sensitive to one group and insensitive to the next. There have been a lot of situations when the referee closest to the area of infraction will not make a call but the ref with no clear-cut vision would make a call. In this way we will see who is the better refs as well as the individual biases against teams or even players. From this study, recommendations on the passing mark or a better matrix for decision making would evolve on both the commissioners and of the referees themselves. It is time that someone police them too as their inconsistency has changed the viewing perception of the games.

My two cents worth.

Agent 008
09-18-2006, 01:57 PM
Dear Professor,

I for one welcome your proposal wth open arms. I cannot blame outbursts from players and coaches because of clear flagrant incompetence (or perhaps even dishonesty) on the part of some referees. I would like to add that the refs also give special treatment to bigtime players. It is disgusting how they would let go of traveling violations or even outright fouls if it's committed by a star player. On the other hand, role players just need to touch an opponent's pinky to get a quick foul. This is absoultely unfair to these types of players and even to the star players who will go to the next level thinking what they do is okay because they consistently get away with it.

Joescoundrel
09-18-2006, 03:09 PM
To the Mods, Perhaps we could merge / move this to the "Zeroing in on the Zebreas" thread.

Moving along, I totally agree with Professor's proposal. But what kind of specific evaluation parameters should be used? For this to be valid we will have to do it using proper tools and methodologies. Do we need to conduct interviews and who wold be the key informants?

And an even better question: If we discover some referees who have been consistently shitty can we take them to a public place and stone them to death? I'd be happy with stones the size of baking potatoes.

Jump_Shooter
09-18-2006, 03:28 PM
^Thanks, Joe. I've already moved this to the General Discussion forum where it can be merged with the Zeroing in on the Zebras thread. Gameface_one or full battle gear can merge the two threads later once they're online.

full battle gear
09-18-2006, 03:33 PM
^^ Done. :)

Joescoundrel
09-18-2006, 03:49 PM
Magkano ba hitman ngayon? Dati kasi P2,000 plus isang kahang yosi.

pio_valenz
09-18-2006, 04:09 PM
I was watching both the Commish and Ato Badolato during the bad calls.* No reaction whatsoever.

Yup, I noticed this too. When Black was going ballistic and got called for the technical after the first half had ended, he was charging over to the commissioner's table and had to be restrained. I heard him shout, "This is just terrible officiating! Terrible!" Yanga and Badolato just looked at him like you would a professor giving a very boring lecture.

bluewing
09-18-2006, 04:14 PM
Magkano ba hitman ngayon? Dati kasi P2,000 plus isang kahang yosi.


may iba dyan na painumin mo lang nang painumin. kung halimbawa ay mga dalawang case ng pale ang maubos nya sa isang gabi, yun na yon! pero syempre, mas matutuwa sa iyo yon kung bigyan mo ng pulutan...

Raging Blue
09-19-2006, 03:06 AM
I was watching both the Commish and Ato Badolato during the bad calls. No reaction whatsoever.

Yup, I noticed this too. When Black was going ballistic and got called for the technical after the first half had ended, he was charging over to the commissioner's table and had to be restrained. I heard him shout, "This is just terrible officiating! Terrible!" Yanga and Badolato just looked at him like you would a professor giving a very boring lecture.


Let me quote a portion of a newspaper article found in the Topic Season 69 News Articles before the UAAP opening last July::



Warriors installed solid pick
By Joey Villar
The Philippine Star 07/05/2006


Elmer Yanga, who managed a team in the PBA for more than a decade, was named this year’s commissioner with Ato Badolato as his assistant.

"We’ll be just, fair and favor no one," said Yanga, referring to the officiating in the league.

Yanga said the league has tapped a pool of 36 referees from NABRO headed by Romy Omampo, the same group that officiated two years ago.


Please draw your own conclusion.

freak
09-19-2006, 10:08 PM
^ I have only one conclusion.. NABRO BULOK! >:(

Wang-Bu
09-21-2006, 08:23 PM
Sabi naman sa inyo kulang lang sa sindak ang mga referee ngayon e. Kapag may nakatikim ng matinding gulpi diyan sa mga 'yan ewan ko lang kung hindi biglang umayos lahat ng mga lintek na 'yan.

Tulad na lang ng nangyayaring binatangan ng biyahe kay Bon Custodio ng UE. Napakahirap patunayan na biyahe ang isang manlalaro. Malay mo namang inaalat lang talaga. Kung merong mga dapat tignan muna kapag usapang biyahe o benta dapat referee. Tignan niyo na lang ang mga tawagan, minsan manipis, minsan makapal, minsan nana, minsan pabayaan. Nakita ng isang buong coliseum at ng milyong manunuod sa TV, pero hindi nakita ng referee na pinakamalapit sa action, hindi kaya ganun ang dapat bintangan kagad ng biyahe o benta?

atenean_blooded
09-26-2006, 11:24 PM
Guys, let's not be too harsh on NABRO.

Hanggang ngayon, umiiyak. They gave it their all pa naman.

Wang-Bu
09-27-2006, 02:05 PM
Ang dapat tignan diyan parati si Referee "Boyong" Manalac. Masyadong feeling alam nitong ungas na ito ang lahat basta may pito siya. Pero taragis talaga, kapag nakatikim na ng bulyaw ng fans - KAHIT PA ALAM NIYANG SIYA ANG NAGKAMALI - magagalit pa sa fans ang lintek. Siya ang pinakamatinding bumawi sa player at team kapag nabwisit sa fans. Buti pa ang mga gay nina Referees Rico Tan at Jun Arlegui, cool lang parati at hindi nagpapaapekto sa bulyaw ng fans.

Wang-Bu
09-27-2006, 02:05 PM
Ang dapat tignan diyan parati si Referee "Boyong" Manalac. Masyadong feeling alam nitong ungas na ito ang lahat basta may pito siya. Pero taragis talaga, kapag nakatikim na ng bulyaw ng fans - KAHIT PA ALAM NIYANG SIYA ANG NAGKAMALI - magagalit pa sa fans ang lintek. Siya ang pinakamatinding bumawi sa player at team kapag nabwisit sa fans. Buti pa ang mga gaya nina Referees Rico Tan at Jun Arlegui, cool lang parati at hindi nagpapaapekto sa bulyaw ng fans.

mangtsito
09-27-2006, 02:24 PM
Ang dapat tignan diyan parati si Referee "Boyong" Manalac. Masyadong feeling alam nitong ungas na ito ang lahat basta may pito siya. Pero taragis talaga, kapag nakatikim na ng bulyaw ng fans - KAHIT PA ALAM NIYANG SIYA ANG NAGKAMALI - magagalit pa sa fans ang lintek. Siya ang pinakamatinding bumawi sa player at team kapag nabwisit sa fans. Buti pa ang mga gaya nina Referees Rico Tan at Jun Arlegui, cool lang parati at hindi nagpapaapekto sa bulyaw ng fans.


Any relation to the "Boyong Mañalac" that was played by Eddie Garcia?

O pa-astig lang na pangalan yun? ;D

5FootCarrot
09-27-2006, 02:35 PM
mangtsito, malamang feeling macho lang si ref at inangkin yung palayaw na yun ::)

Wang-Bu, sang-ayon na sang-ayon ako sa inyo tungkol diyan kay Ref Mañalac. Matagal na yang buwisit sa buhay, kahit noong sa FMC pa lang siya tumatawag. Ilang taon na siyang tumatawag ng mga laro sa FMC, pero hanggang ngayon hindi pa rin alam yung pangalan ni Kotz Gabby namin.

Nakakaasar yang mga refs na yan ha. Dati, pag laro, iniisip mo lang kung ano ang gagawin ng kalaban. Ngayon, pati yung mga gagawin ng refs inaalala na rin.

Sumisipsip daw kasi ang NABRO sa UST (na magiging host ng UAAP Season 70) para sila raw ulit ang kunin para tumawag ng laro sa susunod na taon.

Kid Cubao
09-27-2006, 02:39 PM
hasn't this manalac dude ever been sanctioned by the league office?

Apocrypha
09-27-2006, 03:54 PM
If NABRO really is sucking up to UST, then I am actually surprised that they are smart enough to have the foresight to do so. Mahalaga rin ang job security. As for sanctions, I'm beginning to wonder if the commissioner's office actually even cares if the refs do a good job or not. I would love to know their evaluation of the officiating so far.

time1513
09-27-2006, 03:56 PM
isa lang masasabi ko! tae mga ref ng BAP! yun lng.

5FootCarrot
09-27-2006, 04:40 PM
As for sanctions, I'm beginning to wonder if the commissioner's office actually even cares if the refs do a good job or not. I would love to know their evaluation of the officiating so far.

IIRC, one of the refs, I'm not sure if it was Doofus Mañalac (we used to call him "the doofus ref" because he looks like one), was suspended for that errant call that resulted in the ejection of Coach Joe Lipa in the second-round Ateneo-UP game. (Also, a ref was suspended for that weird call in the last minute of overtime of the first round FEU-NU game in 2004, and refs have also been banned from calling UAAP games for shoddy officiating, but these examples are kind of old and did not occur under current UAAP leadership so they might not apply.) So I think the league does penalize referees for doing stupid things. However, since no one was injured with matching icky blood or wrongfully ejected in this game, I think Mr. Yanga or whoever will just shrug it off and tell the refs to call it better next time - which, of course, will go in one ear and out the other. ::)

IBALIK SI REF BAJJIE!

christian
09-27-2006, 09:00 PM
Who handled the recent NCAA wars? medyo ok ang tawagan nung finals, wala masyaong controversial calls. They played it fair, unless somoeone would react...

Wang-Bu
09-29-2006, 03:14 PM
Wala naman talagang nasa-sanction na referee. Although nabanggit sa akin dati ni Noel Ascue (ang nagpapatakbo ng mga FMC tournament) na meron na yatang dalawa o tatlong referee na hindi na pumipito para sa kanya kasi napatunayan niyang saksakan ng bobo ang mga tawag, at siempre may sabit pa pala. Kaya naman pala palpak ang mga tawag ay dahil tumatanggap ng kabig mula kung kanino. Hindi na niya binanggit kung sinong mga sangkot bukod sa mga referee. Antindi ano? FMC na nga lang na hindi man lang cino-cover sa TV nagkakadugasan at bayaran pa. Papano na lang kaya ang NCAA at UAAP na matinding coverage?

Ito ang sinasabi ko na kapag may sabit o usapin tungkol sa laglagan ng laro o bayaran dapat ang tignan muna mga referee. Medyo mahirap magturo kasi ng player, minsan inaalat talaga ang player kahit gaano kagaling. Tignan na lang natin ang laro ni LA Tenorio versus UE ng Round 2 ng 2004 season. Kagagaling pa lang ng Ateneo sa 7-0 sweep ng Round 1, tapos sumablay laban sa UE kung saan bokya - as in ZERO - ang na-score ni Tenorio. Akala ng iba benta siya, hindi man lang tignan na maganda ang depensa ng UE sa kanya nung larong 'yon. Madali't sabi inalat lang. E ang referee andaling malaman, may slo-mo replay kung saan pwedeng makita ng lahat kung tama ang tawag o hindi.

Ito namang si Manalac, ewan ko lang, pero tancha ko lang dapat tutukan ito ng husto at mukhang may tendency na magpasubasta ng pito.

chocoks77
09-30-2006, 10:12 AM
How can we get back at NABRO? Halata na talaga ang tawagan e

atenean_blooded
10-01-2006, 01:55 AM
How can we get back at NABRO? Halata na talaga ang tawagan e


We can run them over with a bus.

Syempre, tatawagan tayo ng charging nun.

bluebruiser90
10-01-2006, 07:52 AM
How can we get back at NABRO? Halata na talaga ang tawagan e


Very difficult to haul them off the court. "Extra-judicial" na lang. Any suggestions?

oca
10-01-2006, 10:56 AM
If NABRO really is sucking up to UST, then I am actually surprised that they are smart enough to have the foresight to do so. Mahalaga rin ang job security. As for sanctions, I'm beginning to wonder if the commissioner's office actually even cares if the refs do a good job or not. I would love to know their evaluation of the officiating so far.


Putting things in perspective.

They were hired just for this season. It's a one-shot deal for them. The host hired them. They are accountable to the host not to the league.

If the set-up can be professionalized, then "accountability" may be something all of us can discuss. But for now, all those who has something to say can... CUSS!

oca
10-01-2006, 12:06 PM
As early as the first round of the UAAP, many have been complaining about the calls and non-calls. All to the point of spectators virtually "officiating the game".

Ok pa yan.

Ang masama ay - pati players - they are "officiating the game".

How many times do we see players "imploring the aid of the divine referee".

Kung pipito yan- pipito yan. Kung hindi - tuloy sa laro! At kung pumito na yan - aasa ka bang babawiin pa yung tawag? Kaya, tuloy pa rin sa laro.

I just recall the comment of Filemon "Boy" Codinera about officiating. This was in a rare televised baseball game in my younger years, but he added towards the end, his comment applies to all sports where subjectivity is part and parcel of officiating.

He said if bad calls have been consistently called, it's for the players to adjust.

On a personal note -

You may push the discussion further, but Boy's comment applies here perfectly --- the ref's have been "consistent" alright.

Pinagtataka ko pa....the same set of refs call the game at the NCAA and UAAP. Kung ano pa man, bakit hindi issue sa mga NCAA gameface regulars and officiating, unlike sa mga kaibigan natin sa UAAP? Of course, there were instances when NCAA regulars would raise an issue...but let's be honest, none of them dwell on it. They make a statement, that's it.

Lintek, parehong basketball yan, kung susugalan mo yan, it's the same game with the same set of refs. UAAP lang ba ang pwedeng sugalan?

Tayo - fans...miron...supporters...alumni...estudyante, can say whatever we want about the officiating, but when the "players themselves start officiating the game" - your team will lose.

So, we HERE can complain all we want about the officiating, but at the same time, tell the players to "just play".

BTW, kung may contrary na opinyon, I have no intention to reply or make a rebuttal.

atenean_blooded
10-01-2006, 02:18 PM
If NABRO really is sucking up to UST, then I am actually surprised that they are smart enough to have the foresight to do so. Mahalaga rin ang job security. As for sanctions, I'm beginning to wonder if the commissioner's office actually even cares if the refs do a good job or not. I would love to know their evaluation of the officiating so far.


Putting things in perspective.

They were hired just for this season. It's a one-shot deal for them. The host hired them. They are accountable to the host not to the league.

If the set-up can be professionalized, then "accountability" may be something all of us can discuss. But for now, all those who has something to say can... CUSS!


NABRO was also hired in 2004, when La Salle was host.

La Salle allegedly won the championship that season.

In 2006, NABRO was hired by UE.


Now, what do La Salle and UE have in common? Starts with a 'P.'

Go figure.

shyboy
10-01-2006, 02:25 PM
There's this new saying for those who look for excuses...'Players win games, referees lose them.'

shyboy
10-01-2006, 02:49 PM
NABRO was also hired in 2004, when La Salle was host.

La Salle allegedly won the championship that season.

In 2006, NABRO was hired by UE.


Now, what do La Salle and UE have in common? Starts with a 'P.'

Go figure.


Pilit na namang sinisisi ang ibang tao.

As far as I understand, it is the commissioner, not the coach, who chooses the referees to officiate the games. It was Ato Badolato as Commissioner in 2004. This year, Elmer Yanga said it was Deputy Commissioner Badolato who recommended NABRO to call for Season 69.

Jaco D
10-01-2006, 03:39 PM
Wala ba talagang accountability ang refs?* Don't the two leagues have committees to review ref performance?* Isn't there a saying na "absolute power corrupts absolutely?"* I just find it strange that quality control is non-existent in these leagues.* If after all we've seen in terms of consistently inconsistent calls the leagues continue to use NABRO for future seasons, then they have only themselves to blame.

atenean_blooded
10-01-2006, 08:41 PM
Pilit na namang sinisisi ang ibang tao.

As far as I understand, it is the commissioner, not the coach, who chooses the referees to officiate the games.* It was Ato Badolato as Commissioner in 2004.* This year, Elmer Yanga said it was Deputy Commissioner Badolato who recommended NABRO to call for Season 69.*



*GASP* You mean to tell me, after its choosing crappy venues, UE suddenly has no say in who the referees are? :o ::)

I don't think there was anything wrong factually about what I said, with the possible exception of who gave the final nod to the referees. :)

How does that old song go again? Ah.


...We cant go on together
With suspicious minds
And be cant build our dreams
On suspicious minds...



;D

Howard the Duck
10-02-2006, 11:55 AM
ayos ah, parang di na kami nanalo, lol.

danny
10-04-2006, 01:25 AM
ayos ah, parang di na kami nanalo, lol.

Ikaw naman. Napaguusapan lang naman ang mga MMDA traffic enforcer, este refs pala. ;D

Howard the Duck
10-04-2006, 03:56 PM
ayos ah, parang di na kami nanalo, lol.

Ikaw naman. Napaguusapan lang naman ang mga MMDA traffic enforcer, este refs pala. ;D

Hindi naman sila naka-stripes ah? Gray shirt with black sleeves :p

brian
10-06-2006, 12:07 AM
Guys, let's not be too harsh on NABRO.

Hanggang ngayon, umiiyak. They gave it their all pa naman.


blooded,
question lang..sino tinutukoy mong umiiyak? ue ba?

danny
10-07-2006, 12:27 AM
ayos ah, parang di na kami nanalo, lol.

Ikaw naman. Napaguusapan lang naman ang mga MMDA traffic enforcer, este refs pala. ;D

Hindi naman sila naka-stripes ah? Gray shirt with black sleeves :p


Oo nga no! hahahaha....

mangtsito
10-08-2006, 09:50 AM
Sayang talaga natalo ang Ateneo. Lumalabas tuloy ngayon naghahanap lang ng excuse.

Bakit kasi hindi nagharap ng formal complaint noong nananalo pa - gaya noong final 4 na laro against Adamson; o yung Game 1 against UST.

Syempre, yung iba, mas gugustuhin nilang isiping sourgraping lang ang Ateneo. Walang gustong mag-isip na consistent ang reklamo ng Ateneo sa refs, manalo o matalo. Lahat gusto manalo ang underdog.

Wang-Bu
10-09-2006, 03:52 PM
"OK lang ang handcheck. Tsaka OK rin lang ang banggaan. Huwag lang garapalan at walang sikohan at sahuran. Hahayaan namin kayong maglaro basta hindi larong gago."

Ganyan ang sinabi nung mga referee na pumito dun sa Champion's League game nung UE at EAC. Sa totoo lang napakasarap manood ng ganun klaseng laro, walang badingan, walang mga lecheng tawag. Bigla kong nakita ang isang maliit na patch sa uniform nung mga ref - PBL. Mga bata pala ni Ilong. Sana ganyan din tumawag ang mga NABRO, na mistulang pakyawan ang tawag, akala mong may metro sa silbato, lalo na si Manalac.

atenean_blooded
10-10-2006, 12:33 AM
Guys, let's not be too harsh on NABRO.

Hanggang ngayon, umiiyak. They gave it their all pa naman.


blooded,
question lang..sino tinutukoy mong umiiyak? ue ba?


After Game 1 of the UAAP finals yung post ko na yun, brian. :)

easter
10-13-2006, 08:15 AM
Here are some latest news in Zebra land and it seems that calls will be the biggest issue in the NBA this year.

http://hoops.blink.ph/2006/10/12/onion-skins/#more-73

Joescoundrel
10-13-2006, 04:13 PM
Nothing short of shooting each and every one of the NABRO whistles will rid the UAAP of this problem. Incredibly enough Ateneo Lady Eagles Coach John Flores - himself the victim of two tossings in the last season - actually praised the officiating during one of their last regular season games. And to think that was a loss! So apparently NABRO (or at least the crew during that particular game) can call a game well after all. But as Cubao says: what about the times they do NOT call the games at least minimally adequately? I also agree with Wang-bu, that f---ing Manalac zebra should be f---ing shot. Repeatedly. With a General Electric Vulcan cannon.

5FootCarrot
10-14-2006, 08:44 AM
Of all the NABRO refs, referee Rico Tan (AKA "Ref Bajjie") is my favorite. He's given Ateneo fans a fit or two in the past, but of all the NABRO refs he was the most consisten.

atenean_blooded
10-14-2006, 10:32 PM
With a General Electric Vulcan cannon.


How humane of you.

brian
10-15-2006, 01:02 AM
Guys, let's not be too harsh on NABRO.

Hanggang ngayon, umiiyak. They gave it their all pa naman.


blooded,
question lang..sino tinutukoy mong umiiyak? ue ba?


After Game 1 of the UAAP finals yung post ko na yun, brian. :)


ah ok..akala ko naiiyak pa din ang ue at nabro ang kinuha nila eh ;D

freak
10-15-2006, 08:39 PM
that f---ing Manalac zebra should be f---ing shot. Repeatedly. With a General Electric Vulcan cannon.


Guess what, Manalac was one of the officials in today's FMC game (ADMU-B vs DLSU-A). I think I saw Joe trying to hide his cannon behind him when he went down to courtside. :D

allblue
10-15-2006, 08:56 PM
Uhm, san ba nakakabili ng cannon na yan? Pa-order nga.

Wang-Bu
10-17-2006, 02:16 PM
Uhm, san ba nakakabili ng cannon na yan?* Pa-order nga.*



'Yan po 'yung nakakabit sa nguso ng Apache attack helicopter. Meron din pong ganyan ang "F" version ng Black Hawk. Ganyan din po ang bitbit nung character ni Jesse "The Body" Ventura sa "Predator". Ewan sa GE kung available for commercial sale gaya ng kanilang mga appliances at bombilya.

MonL
10-17-2006, 03:52 PM
Uhm, san ba nakakabili ng cannon na yan?* Pa-order nga.*



'Yan po 'yung nakakabit sa nguso ng Apache attack helicopter. Meron din pong ganyan ang "F" version ng Black Hawk. Ganyan din po ang bitbit nung character ni Jesse "The Body" Ventura sa "Predator". Ewan sa GE kung available for commercial sale gaya ng kanilang mga appliances at bombilya.


Huling hirit na ito sa (off)topic: At meron din pong "mini-gun" version na ginamit nung character ni Schwarzenegger sa "Terminator 2", di ko lang alam kung 100 rounds per second din ang buga tulad nung Vulcan gun. Pero mas madaling itago ito ni Joe.* :D

Sobra talaga ang galit ng mga tao rito........ :D

danny
10-18-2006, 02:00 AM
Painumin niyo na lang kaya ang mga yan. Bote lang naman daw ang katapat ng ilan diyan. Dagdagan pa ng yosi para masaya. Huwag naman ratatat. Tao din naman silang maituturing. Dinudugo (hindi. hindi ganung dugo) at lumuluha din.:D;D

5FootCarrot
10-19-2006, 09:40 AM
Mahal siguro yang mga cannon-cannon na yan.

Dahil sa hirap ng panahon ngayon, ipadala mo na lang yung mga refs sa beauty parlor para magpa-manicure at -pedicure sa beautician na hindi marunong. (Siguraduhing hindi na-disinfect ang mga nipper, tweezer, etc. na gagamitin.) Murang-mura lang siguro yan, with VAT and tip included.

:-*

Wang-Bu
10-19-2006, 06:21 PM
Lakay Jun : "Pagpasensiyahan mo na pre, mistulang tao na din 'yang mga 'yan, may puso at baga..."

Wang-bu : "E ano kulang...?"

Lakay Jun : "Utak."

danny
10-21-2006, 03:33 AM
Lakay Jun : "Pagpasensiyahan mo na pre, mistulang tao na din 'yang mga 'yan, may puso at baga..."

Wang-bu : "E ano kulang...?"

Lakay Jun : "Utak."



May utak din naman daw. Utak biya nga lang. :D

brian
10-21-2006, 05:57 PM
maski gawin palang sabaw alang pakinabang ;D

Sam Miguel
10-24-2006, 06:19 PM
SCOUTING ZEBRAS

When one says "scouting" in basketball it usually means observing and studying the tendencies of certain players i.e. where does he usually take his shots, what side of the court he favors, how he plays defense, can he switch directions easily, etc-etc. In other words, scouting is all about becoming familiar with specific tendencies of players and teams. This helps teams prepare for games and make long-range plans and specific game strategy. With the use of the latest video and statistical tools scouting has become a science, with percentages and trends factored into a team's game plan.

So how about we start doing the same thing for referees? Its not like we don't already have a data bank. We have at least two seasons worth of NABRO UAAP game video, as well as some offseason tournaments. Why not use those to also scout the zebras? Not all referees whistle the same. Yes, the rules are the same and that is precisely the point of standardizing everything. But referees, Wang-bu's remarks not withstanding, are human too, and thus prone to errors. If a player can make 20 straight freethrows regularly in practise but cannot complete two in a real game, it is not unreasonable to expect that a referee may know all the rules but still err in actual games. Being in the spotlight in front of a highly partisan crowd is something else entirely.

That is why scouting referees can make a big difference. I don't care how many meetings teams, coaches and captains have with tournament officials, front office people and even the referees themselves. Everything changes come game day. By scouting referees as they call actual games teams can determine with a more or less fair degree of accuracy the specific tendencies of individual referees, the whistle patterns of specific crews and crew combinations, as well as who are the most blatantly incompetent and who are themost competent.

In the Season 69 of the UAAP how come Ref Boyong Manalac was calling mostly [to my recollection he never called a Juniors or Ladies game] Seniors games? Ref Rico Tan was calling only Juniors and Ladies games? Refs Boy Pascual and Jun Arlegui whenever needed? Manalac and the referee the Atenistas call "Ref Scoundrel" had to my recollection the most number of Seniors games called. And they were also the two most vociferously heckled by the crowd from just about every school. Manalac has always been the strictest [I don't quite know if that's the right term] when calling ticky-tack fouls on just about any body. "Scoundrel" seems to love calling the extended arms foul on players trying to guard guys operating just under the basket. Tan loves to whistle for the double dribble and warding off fouls. Arlegui takes a particular liking to fouls on guys working the post like arm bars and knee nudges.

Manalac and "Scoundrel" usually work the baseline and box to box areas where most of the bumping and grinding happen. The rest usually work the perimeteer and watch out for travelling and baseline violations. Pascual seems to specialize in getting perimeter defenders into foul trouble with his quick whistle on guys who play defense with their hips and knees instead of their feet.

Wouldn't it be great if we had actual numbers to verify these observations? I'll just bet I'd be proven right as fas as these tendencies go.

And they did the same things in the FMC Open as well as the FMC 2. So we have a pattern emerging here.

How does this help teams? If you know how certain zebras whistle then you can make your adjustments even during practise. You can prepare not just for the other team but for whoever will be calling your game. You will have a more or less good idea who will be allowing a semi-extended armbar and who will absolutely not tolerate any armbar at all; who will let you take little rabit steps and hops in the low post and who will stick strictly to the 1.5 to 2 legitimate steps only; who will look the other way regardless of flops and who will buy the act of league flopmeisters.

You can thus reduce your concern regarding the zebras because now you can include them as early as the first day of your offseason preparations. That means less technicals, less warnings, less surprises.

In line with this perhaps teams could also get a referee/officiating consultant or coaching assistant who can help the coaches and players adjust accordingly to certain crews and individual referees.

In other words every one can know stick to just playing the game instead of bellyaching and whining about the zebras.

AnthonyServinio
02-03-2007, 03:17 AM
Once the current basketball leadership crisis gets resolved, I hope it will also lead to the unification of ALL referee groups in the Philippines.

BAP (BARECOM), NABRO, ABA, BRUSCAA, PBL and PBA referees should band into one organization so that we will have a uniform interpretation, application and appreciation of the latest FIBA Rules.

flsfnoeraekadad
02-03-2007, 04:42 AM
Wade! Wade!

Wang-Bu
06-28-2007, 06:39 PM
Yaman rin lang panahon na naman ng college basketball naisipan kong iangat muli ang usaping ito.

Sa nakita ko sa mga offseason na liga tila yata hindi pa din nagbabago ang mga kaibigan nating naka-gray. Palso-palso pa din ang mga tawagan at pito. Tila yata wala pa ding maayos na direksyon at iisang alituntunin ang mga ref natin.

Ilan na naman kayang laban ang magkakanda-leche leche gawa nitong mga katoto nating taga-pito?

Howard the Duck
07-16-2007, 06:28 PM
di na stripes or even gray ang suot ng mga refs. black na. at confusing lalo na kung dark colored team ka.

Kid Cubao
07-16-2007, 08:15 PM
confusing for whom?

Howard the Duck
07-17-2007, 12:11 AM
for dark colored unis like maybe FEU and ADU?

Sam Miguel
07-24-2007, 06:13 PM
How about that Tom Donaghy eh?

Finally, a proven big time stink to blemish the high and mighty David Stern. Looks like the NBA's arrogance has finally caught up with them.

Kid Cubao
07-25-2007, 09:54 AM
in response to sam miguel's rhetorical question [rhetorical question nga eh, kaya ba't ko pa sasagutin? ;D]:

i guess we're all in agreement that the only thing worse than an incompetent referee is a corrupt referee.

lurkinggood
09-09-2007, 09:16 PM
Hayop ang Zebras sa ADMU-DLSU 2. Sarap pakainin ng damo. >:(

flsfnoeraekadad
09-09-2007, 11:11 PM
Hayop talaga. Sinipa na ni Laterre si Ilad wala pa ding technical foul

cub
09-09-2007, 11:27 PM
dapat na-eject si laterre kanina. o kaya, suspended next game. pati si monfort. kala mo kung sino, ang liit liit naman.

5FootCarrot
09-10-2007, 10:32 AM
Di mag-protesta na kayo.

residentshooter
09-10-2007, 10:44 AM
Hayop talaga. Sinipa na ni Laterre si Ilad wala pa ding technical foul


second motion yung kay zion kasi sinuntok siya ni ilad... tsk tsk tsk

Kid Cubao
09-10-2007, 10:51 AM
di nya sinipa si ilad. hinawakan ni ilad ang paa ni zion, so zion had to pry his foot loose. if it happens that he looked like he was kicking ilad, then so be it.

Kid Cubao
09-10-2007, 10:57 AM
dapat na-eject si laterre kanina. o kaya, suspended next game. pati si monfort. kala mo kung sino, ang liit liit naman.

pare, ang init talaga ng dugo mo sa ateneo ah, matagal ko nang napapansin. ano ba problema natin?

chocoks77
09-10-2007, 11:07 AM
dapat na-eject si laterre kanina. o kaya, suspended next game. pati si monfort. kala mo kung sino, ang liit liit naman.

pare, ang init talaga ng dugo mo sa ateneo ah, matagal ko nang napapansin. ano ba problema natin?


Kid, 'wag mo na patulan, baka magPROTESTA. Pero kung magpapatuloy, sila na nga tinutulungan ng refs most of the time or all the time kahapon, sila pa may karapatan humingi ng kung ano ano. SUS......

Jeep
09-10-2007, 02:39 PM
dapat na-eject si laterre kanina. o kaya, suspended next game. pati si monfort. kala mo kung sino, ang liit liit naman.

pare, ang init talaga ng dugo mo sa ateneo ah, matagal ko nang napapansin. ano ba problema natin?


Kid, 'wag mo na patulan, baka magPROTESTA. Pero kung magpapatuloy, sila na nga tinutulungan ng refs most of the time or all the time kahapon, sila pa may karapatan humingi ng kung ano ano. SUS......


ganyan talaga ang mga bata namin, cub. walang uurungan yan, kahit dejado pa sila. pero sige, kung may angal kayo, magPROTESTA na kayo.

please do, because i would LOVE it!!! and you and your team and its loser coach and his staff will then have the dubious distinction of being the ONE team that seeks to win in whatever way -- even off the hardcourt. after all, you are ONE la salle.

=================

now, on to my real rant, about the officiating yesterday. like i said elsewhere, the game was sweet because we won despite the odds the refs stacked against us.

that said, though, i think some sort of critical mass has to be built up to form a tide of public opinion against these refs and the way they make their calls. year in and year out, we all complain about these 3 stooges who, in any given day, can turn the tide in your favor or against you.

would it be too much to ask paolo bugia to do a case study on governance and accountability issues in the UAAP? (i'm presuming he has more time on his hands now that he successfully defended his thesis on a strategic management direction for the PBA.) it would really need an insider's viewpoint (or someone who was once a UAAP insider and is still very much a key figure in the local hoops community. and he can start by looking at how refs should be help accountable for the calls they make. i do not know this for a fact, but i think i saw a post here or elsewhere that teams in the NBA are given a certain period of time (e.g., 48 hours) within which to submit any protests or complaints regarding referees' calls or non-calls to the league's technical committee. the committee, in turn, reviews the tapes against such calls and confirms or rejects the protest. they would sit the refs concerned with the said representatives of the schools along with their explanations regarding a call or non-call. if their explanation does not sit well with the committee and the school reps, then the refs are sanctioned (perhaps a game suspension or a fine.

would that be possible? would the UAAP agree to this? or alternatively, what if we just import refs from FIBA or the NBA? :D taon-taon na lang kasi, ganito ang inaangal natin. but no one seems to want to do anything about it. if we can muster the numbers, then maybe some change for the betterment of the league should be in the works.

Jaco D
09-10-2007, 08:38 PM
I dunno, Jeep.* At the end of the day, the ground rules would always be coloured by the host school's whims - and this covers everything from the fundamentals, such as choosing referees, to something as anal as cheering during timeouts.* One well-meaning host-school could implement the desired changes during its host year, but chances are those changes may not be carried over the following year due to various reasons.* Any long-term study and its recommendations would peter out if the person in the driver's seat changes year after year.* Having the games run professionally by a non-involved party might solve most of the problems we see year in year out - and this concerns not only the UAAP but the other student leagues as well.* With the level of consistency assured, then the league can work on long-term, strategic initiatives.

bluewing
09-10-2007, 10:12 PM
which brings us to the point that hosting should be limited to the drama and pageantry, and just leave the technical aspects to a constant and independent entity. para sa gayon, may continuity. hindi yung taun-taon, mag-a-adjust ang mga team to accommodate the whims and tendencies of the officials.

Jaco D
09-11-2007, 12:26 AM
which brings us to the point that hosting should be limited to the drama and pageantry, and just leave the technical aspects to a constant and independent entity. para sa gayon, may continuity. hindi yung taun-taon, mag-a-adjust ang mga team to accommodate the whims and tendencies of the officials.


Exactly, amigo!* In fact, if SBP really wants to make a positive contribution to the game then they should come up with an organizing body for all the amateur feeder leagues to run the technical aspects of the different leagues under a consistent set of rules to be followed on the court and related off-hardcourt issues (age, residency, etc.).* Yung mga "borloloy" issues like pageantry, etc. leave that to the host school.* I think we can live with inane rules like no cheering during time-outs, limits on laylayan ng palda ng cheerdancers,......

pachador
09-11-2007, 02:39 AM
dapat merong rule na maikli yung skirts ng cheerleaders kasi pag-mahaba yung skirts nila they can fall down injuring themselves when they jump high. its a safety issue you know ;D

atenean_blooded
09-11-2007, 03:25 AM
di nya sinipa si ilad. hinawakan ni ilad ang paa ni zion, so zion had to pry his foot loose. if it happens that he looked like he was kicking ilad, then so be it.


Saka 'di ba, rugby player si Laterre? Kung talagang gusto niyang manipa at manakit, baka na-injure si Ilad.

Jeep
09-11-2007, 09:36 AM
which brings us to the point that hosting should be limited to the drama and pageantry, and just leave the technical aspects to a constant and independent entity. para sa gayon, may continuity. hindi yung taun-taon, mag-a-adjust ang mga team to accommodate the whims and tendencies of the officials.


Exactly, amigo!* In fact, if SBP really wants to make a positive contribution to the game then they should come up with an organizing body for all the amateur feeder leagues to run the technical aspects of the different leagues under a consistent set of rules to be followed on the court and related off-hardcourt issues (age, residency, etc.).* Yung mga "borloloy" issues like pageantry, etc. leave that to the host school.* I think we can live with inane rules like no cheering during time-outs, limits on laylayan ng palda ng cheerdancers,......


jaco, bluewing: i guess these would be issues with a longer time horizon. if we can sound this off to our reps in the UAAP board, let's do so. it shouldn't cost much to put up and maintain a small organization that functions year-round and will require just a secretariat to oversee the technical aspects of each event, make plans, do scheduling and pencil-pushing, etc.

in the immediate, short term, i'd like us to nail this ref ronald whatzhisface who wanted to do us in with that call after the buzzer sounded. like i said in a.net, unless one wanted to highlight his "culinary" skills, no one calls a foul in that last second or so of play. i recall a game in the last PBA conference in which the refs awarded an end-game and-1 play to san miguel, which gave them the win. my dad, although an SMB fan like me, did not like the call, because it was the refs who decided the win, not the players. by all indications, this ref had that very intention in his mind.

like i said, put a tail on this dude, see where he goes, who he talks to off-hours and hangs out with. i'm pretty sure we can find something to pin this @$$hole down with.

another immediate approach, however, would be to review the game and note down all the fouls called against us, ticky-tacky or otherwise. segregate the legit calls from the idiotic ones in a list or summary, then file a notice with the UAAP board that we would like a clarification of the calls made based on the list or summary we made. have the ref in question appear before the technical committee along with our board rep and ask him to explain each and every bonehead call he made.

it's easy to watch that game once again and come up with that list of knucklehead calls. i can even do it myself. heck, anyone can do it. but we'll need the ateneo leadership to be the one to raise this matter to the board. the sad fact is, we, the fans, are non-entities. fr. nebres, messrs. capistrano and palou are the ones with moral clout to bring this up to the board. if there's anyone in these forums who has the ear of these personalities, please, please try and speak with them. this is likely to be bigger than your proverbial can of worms.

Raging Blue
09-11-2007, 10:56 AM
And I thought that I had a pleasant surprise when I did not see the presence of Boyong Manyalac, NABRO's Chief Chef, officiating for last Sunday's game.

Mas malala pa pala magluto yung tatlong kusinero >:(

bluewing
09-11-2007, 11:28 AM
Mas malala pa pala magluto yung tatlong kusinero >:(



syempre. kumbaga, mga apprentice pa lang yan eh... gusto nila syempre na mahigitan ang teacher nila.

bchoter
09-14-2007, 04:46 PM
^ In the US-FEU game, akala ko din ligtas na ang UST dun sa matabang referee (one of those who called the UST-AdU game). Mas matindi nga yung tatlo magluto. 1st quarter palang unang drive ni Dylan he slapped on the wrist and he partially lost control of the ball but there were no calls. That went on the whole game.

Howard the Duck
09-14-2007, 05:58 PM
Matanong ko lang... anong team ba pinapaboran ang NABRO?

batangueño
09-14-2007, 08:36 PM
Kapag pala natanggal si Coach Joe Lipa sa UP ay magpapa-pyesta ang NABRO? :o ;D

chocoks77
09-14-2007, 09:31 PM
Dapat sa kanila ganito:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GUqqGp28OI

danny
09-15-2007, 01:13 AM
Dapat sa kanila ganito:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GUqqGp28OI


Ayos yan ah. :D

aircanda
09-16-2007, 11:56 AM
Dapat sa kanila ganito:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GUqqGp28OI


Ayos yan ah. :D


hehe..hanep un ah.. pero wawa un ref.. 2log na 2log...

mighty_lion
09-16-2007, 07:12 PM
Pambihira, pwede natin yan gawing trainor ni Pacman. ;D

gameface_one
11-25-2007, 05:21 PM
Crackdown on referees
SPORTING CHANCE By Joaquin M. Henson
Sunday, November 25, 2007
Philstar.com

There’s a continuing assessment on the performance of PBA referees as the season progresses and so far, seven have been slapped suspensions, including three still in cold storage.

A suspension is for at least one rotation or a period of eight playing days. Four referees who were suspended for a rotation are now back on active duty. But three were just added to the dubious list for working the controversial Purefoods-Alaska game last Wednesday.

The suspension hurts a referee in the pocket because he misses out on the game-day allowance of P1,500. A referee earns an average of P50,000 a month. While on suspension, a referee is expected to still report for meetings, lectures, review sessions and physical training.

“The evaluation is ongoing,” said a PBA official. “By the end of the eliminations, we’ll determine the top 12 referees to work in the playoffs. Right now, we’re still classifying the 20 referees. Some are being downgraded from A to B or B to C. We know all the referees understand our new officiating philosophy so we’re now addressing the execution. We believe we’re 80 percent up to the level we want. To go 90 percent would be difficult because of the nature of the game. Even in the NBA, I think it’s impossible to expect a game to be officiated close to perfection. But that’s the goal.”

With more and more games decided by the slimmest of margins, officiating takes a pronounced focus.

Last Wednesday, two crucial plays down the stretch proved to be Alaska’s undoing. First, a bad toss on a jump-ball negated what would’ve been a turnover against Purefoods. Second, Kerby Raymundo escaped a traveling violation and passed to Romel Adducul for the game-winning basket.

Alaska protested Purefoods’ 87-86 win but the PBA couldn’t uphold it because judgment, not a technicality, led to the disputed ending. The fact that the PBA suspended the three involved referees meant they didn’t do a good job.

“It could’ve been a traveling violation,” said a PBA official. “There was contact between Kerby and Sonny (Thoss). The ball went loose and Kerby retrieved it on the way down. It was a tough non-call with time running out.”

Last Friday, Air21 got a break down the stretch when Jay Washington was called for goaltending on Ranidel de Ocampo’s second free throw, time down to 15 seconds. Under FIBA rules, the defensive player may legitimately tap the ball away if over the cylinder after hitting the rim. In de Ocampo’s case, his second charity clanged before Washington’s tip. With the goaltending call, Air21 increased its lead to three, 118-115. Without the call, Talk ’N’ Text would’ve cut the deficit to just two and could’ve gone for the equalizer, not needing a triple.

Talk ’N’ Text team manager Frankie Lim said Washington’s slap was legal. He also complained about the apparent inconsistency of foul calls.

A PBA official said goaltending was called on Washington because the ball was already in the cylinder.

“But how can that be?” noted an observer. “If the ball was already inside the hoop, how could anyone bat it away unless his hand was under the rim? If it was inside, that ball would’ve gone through instead of out.”

* * *

SBP executive director Patrick Gregorio confirmed he’s not backing out of the race to succeed Noli Eala as PBA commissioner. Others in the derby are lawyer Chito Salud, Lambert Santos and coach Chot Reyes.

In a text to PBA chairman Tony Chua and OIC Sonny Barrios, Gregorio said: “Ang maging nominado bilang susunod na commissioner ng PBA ay isang karangalan na hindi ko basta bastang matatalikuran. Ako po ay umaasa na sa pagsali ko sa prosesong ito ay mas lalo pang lalakas ang BAP-SBP bilang isang federation dahil sa suporta ng PBA. I’m in!”

Withdrawing after being nominated were former banker Ricky Palou, shipping magnate Arben Santos, NBA Asia’s Carlo Singson and Unilab’s Bert Manlapit. Curiously, early favorites Freddie Webb and Robert Jaworski were not nominated.

It’s “bakbakan” time once again as the Universal Reality Combat Championships (URCC) unravels its 11th mixed martial arts card entitled “Redemption” on One Esplanade, beside the Mall of Asia, at 6 tonight. The featured fights are Caloy (Bad Boy) Baduria versus Frank (The Crank) Camacho of Guam and comebacking Fritz Rodriguez versus Sayed Jabari. For tickets, call or text 0915-9467214. MMA guru Alvin Aguilar is putting up the blockbuster show so it’s guaranteed to be action-packed from start to finish.

Postscript: Local sports apparel and footwear brand Accel is embarking on a fitness campaign on TV anchored on the slogan “a healthy citizen makes a healthy nation.” It’s calling on everyone to “shape up and exercise.” One video clip shows an overweight passenger seated in a jeepney, throwing off the conductor who’s calling for one more passenger but is reminded that there’s no space left. Accel delivers a timely message before the holiday eating... The Philippine Foundation for Tomorrow’s Good Children, Inc. is presenting “Christmas Rush,” a charity concert on Dec. 14 at 6 p.m. at the Center Stage Cinema of the SM Mall of Asia. Performers include PBB teen edition winner Kim Chiu, child performer Miguel Aguila and the Rush TV hosts Say Alonzo, Dino Imperial, Roxanne Barcelo, Joaqui Mendoza, Mico Aytona, Sam YG and Kamae de Jesus. Other talents from universities and colleges (like the UP Streetdance) in Metro Manila are slated to perform. Proceeds will be donated to the beneficiaries of the foundation, which focuses on uplifting the lives of children from depressed areas. For tickets, call 843-5087.

genom222
11-27-2007, 03:01 AM
Did you know that though the UAAP and the NCAA use the same set of referees for their games, they are officiated differently? Contrary to popular belief, the UAAP games are more free for all type of games since the officials tend to let the players play the game loosely and let more physicality. As for the NCAA, they call it more tightly and rarely let players get away with the physicality. I've always thought it was the other way around but my source said that was really the case. Same set of referees, different prerogative from each league.

atenista_comm
07-24-2008, 01:32 PM
For everyone's reference:


NATIONAL BASKETBALL REFEREES ASSOCIATION (NABRO)
List of 2008 UAAP Referees

Official No. / Name

10 / Tabanag, Bryan
11 / Jimenez, Jerry
12 / Bayais, Juner
13 / Manalac, Boyong
14 / Tolentino, Ruel
15 / Tolentino, Lito
16 / Tan, Rico
18 / Canosa, Bilong
19 / Bermejo, Ronald
20 / Calizar, Mat
21 / Sagum, Zaldy
22 / Santos, Ric
25 / Vergara, Mike
26 / Nagpantay, Nestor
27 / Sanchez, Felix
28 / Villanueva, Hector
29 / Estrada, John

5FootCarrot
07-24-2008, 01:50 PM
To the Hoopedia mods, kindly merge this with the "Zeroing In On the Zebras" thread. Thank you.

thadzonline
07-24-2008, 02:33 PM
hahaha, akala ko National Bulok Referees Organization kaya napaclick ako lol

Jeep
08-10-2008, 04:31 PM
buhayin natin muli ang thread na ito, yaman din lang na kahina-hinala ang mga tawag -- at di-pagtawag -- ng mga tagasipol sa pangalawang harapan ng FEU-ADMU kahapon.

either it's blatant ineptitude on the part of messrs. jimenez, mañalac, and tolentino (luto, este, lito pala) or it's blatant maliciousness. take your pick. either way, the commish needs to look at this more closely. i mean, a little more than 2 minutes to go in the game, and FEU is still largely spotless at just 1 foul, while ateneo already reached penalty just 3 minutes into the last quarter?! i don't mind ticky-tacky calls but they better call it on both ends.

let's have the pictures and video grabs, please. >:(

bluewing
08-10-2008, 05:09 PM
either it's blatant ineptitude on the part of messrs. jimenez, mañalac, and tolentino (luto, este, lito pala) or it's blatant maliciousness. take your pick.


both, pare. luto + bobo refs. ampait.

atenean_blooded
08-11-2008, 02:23 AM
Just caught the telecast of the USA-China game.

Ang ganda talaga kung hindi NABRO yung referee. :)

Pero mas masaya siguro yung Olympics kung NABRO yung referee. ;D

bchoter
08-11-2008, 11:58 AM
buhayin natin muli ang thread na ito, yaman din lang na kahina-hinala ang mga tawag -- at di-pagtawag -- ng mga tagasipol sa pangalawang harapan ng FEU-ADMU kahapon.

either it's blatant ineptitude on the part of messrs. jimenez, mañalac, and tolentino (luto, este, lito pala) or it's blatant maliciousness. take your pick. either way, the commish needs to look at this more closely. i mean, a little more than 2 minutes to go in the game, and FEU is still largely spotless at just 1 foul, while ateneo already reached penalty just 3 minutes into the last quarter?! i don't mind ticky-tacky calls but they better call it on both ends.

let's have the pictures and video grabs, please.* >:(
It's also funny that Ateneo attempted like 20 somthing FTs in the first half while had a few or wala yata. Niluto ang FEU sa first half tapos may tumawag, niluto naman ang ADMU sa 2nd half?

Jeep
08-11-2008, 07:06 PM
It's also funny that Ateneo attempted like 20 somthing FTs in the first half while had a few or wala yata. Niluto ang FEU sa first half tapos may tumawag, niluto naman ang ADMU sa 2nd half?


and that, sir bchoter, is obviously the best way to keep the scores close -- if that is the intention. but i'm not even going into that, as we can't second-guess what people have in their deep, dark minds. instead, let's just look at the evidence. i know NBA refs have debriefings after each game, and a panel reviews each and every call or non-call. that way, they're kept on their toes and at best are encouraged to improve their officiating in succeeding games. or at worst, at least they know people who hold the power to fire them are looking over their shoulders and will try to avoid putting their jobs --and their reputations -- on the line.

BigBlue
08-11-2008, 07:18 PM
It's also funny that Ateneo attempted like 20 somthing FTs in the first half while had a few or wala yata. Niluto ang FEU sa first half tapos may tumawag, niluto naman ang ADMU sa 2nd half?


and that, sir bchoter, is obviously the best way to keep the scores close -- if that is the intention. but i'm not even going into that, as we can't second-guess what people have in their deep, dark minds. instead, let's just look at the evidence. i know NBA refs have debriefings after each game, and a panel reviews each and every call or non-call. that way, they're kept on their toes and at best are encouraged to improve their officiating in succeeding games. or at worst, at least they know people who hold the power to fire them are looking over their shoulders and will try to avoid putting their jobs --and their reputations -- on the line.


Does the present commish do this? i do know that Joe Lipa did it when he was league commish in the 90's (prior to joining ateneo as coach).

bluewing
08-11-2008, 07:32 PM
^

umalis na tayo sa UAAP. binababoy na ng game fixers at refs ang ganda ng laro. :p

glock23
08-11-2008, 07:46 PM
^

umalis na tayo sa UAAP. binababoy na ng game fixers at refs ang ganda ng laro. :p


Game kami dyan! kapag nawala ang lasalle at Ateneo sa UAAP taob yan! ;D

yungha
08-11-2008, 10:22 PM
...
It's also funny that Ateneo attempted like 20 somthing FTs in the first half while had a few or wala yata. Niluto ang FEU sa first half tapos may tumawag, niluto naman ang ADMU sa 2nd half?


FEU attempted 10 3-pointers in the first half and right about the same number of outside shots. i counted only 3 instances when the tams drove hard to the hoop, once each by fernandez, tanuan and cervantes and each time they beat their man cleanly so no foul was called. they had a handful of other attempts inside the paint but not the type that would draw fouls - a semi-hook and a turnaround fallaway by cervantes, 2 undergoal stabs off backdoor cuts by barroca and knuttel. given that type of offensive variety by the tams, they really wouldn't draw too many fouls. in contrast, Ateneo kept feeding rabeh down low and ryan and eric kept driving hard to the hoop.

in the 2nd half, feu started driving hard and thus were rewarded with free throws.

bchoter
08-12-2008, 10:14 AM
^ A (very) vocal FEU follower seated at the gallery behind the goal at side of the FEU bench were complaining of fouls not called in the first half. The Ateneans on that side were silent. In the 2nd half (mostly in the 4th quarter) it was the Ateneans' turn to complain. On one instance even the (very) vocal FEU follower agreed with the crowd and, in a backhanded way, admitted it: "hoy kayong mga mayayaman hindi lang kayo ang anak ng diyos". It doesn't exactly prove that the officiating was rigged but IMHO, it's probably the worst so far.

From an unbiased point of view I felt the non-calls in the first half went against FEU while in the 4th quarter it dramatically went in their favor save for that non-call on a travelling violation. If my observations are correct then it did look like the zebras were managing the lead.

Kid Cubao
08-12-2008, 10:40 AM
^^ from an objective point of view, the FEU tamaraws seemed to me that they earned the fouls they harvested from ateneo defenders because they started attacking the basket starting the 2nd half. before that, in the 1st half, the tamaraws had great success shooting jumpshots and 3-pointers, which explains why the blue eagles were hardly whistled for fouls.

heto kasi ang problema: dapat patas lang sana ang dami ng fouls ng ateneo at FEU because we were just as aggressive in attacking the basket and setting up our low-post scorers in the 1st half all throughout the final quarter. kumbaga di naman nagpalit ng strategy ni coach black--halimbawa, na tirahan na sa labas ang tamaraws. talagang binagyo lang kami ng sangkaterbang no-calls and dubious fouls, which resulted in baclao's foul disqualification. sa akin, sige, tanggap ko yung mga fouls na itinawag sa ateneo, pero hindi ko pa rin maintindihan na wala kaming nakukuhang fouls sa FEU sa 4th quarter.

Jeep
08-12-2008, 10:51 AM
^precisely my point, KC. i don't mind them calling it tight or loose -- whatever. as long as they call it even, i.e., they call it this way against this team the exact same way they would that team. ilang salaksak ang ginawa ni rabeh, eric, chris sa loob. you would see 2, 3, even 4 tams going up with them, and not a single foul called? you believe that, then i got a bridge i'd like to sell you down in cotabato where the fighting is now fast and furious ;) .

photogs covering the games, whatever side you belong to, maybe you guys (and gals) might wanna park yourselves under the goals and start firing away each time you see someone making a drive for the hoop. i'm pretty sure there'll be a lot to discover for yourselves down there. might even make a handsome buck for yourselves with all the posters you'll be selling! ;D those with small videocams might also wanna post something on youtube for all and sundry to see.

bchoter
08-12-2008, 12:22 PM
The referees made matters worse when they called a relatively lesser contact on Nonoy Baclao while they seem to let go of contacts on the other end.

Joescoundrel
09-15-2008, 10:59 AM
Having seen the NAASCU zebras those NABRO boys are looking pretty good.

Jeep
07-30-2009, 08:27 PM
Having seen the NAASCU zebras those NABRO boys are looking pretty good.


'know what? i'm beginning to miss boyong mañalac and co.

ibalik na nga ang NABRO sa UAAP!!!

Joescoundrel
07-30-2009, 11:03 PM
To referee Numbers 83, 84 and 85, you can all eat dirt and die, most especially Number 85. I am going to light a black candle for you Number 85, and ask the gods to give you ebola. Today had to be the worst officiated game in recent memory, and I speak as some one who has seen SBP referees in action in NAASCU Season 9. Inconsistency is not the problem but sheer ineptitude of Numbers 83, 84 and 85 in today's Ateneo-Adamson game. These are the same gang of zebras that include a lot of the best in the game, and yet these three numbskulls made a total and utter mockery of the game today. It was not just their calls against Ateneo, they screwed Adamson over just as well.

To Commissioner Joe Lipa and Romy Guevara, please get your zebras' shit together. Your good names are being dragged through pig manure by the incompetence of your zebras.

atenean_blooded
07-31-2009, 05:02 AM
To referee Numbers 83, 84 and 85, you can all eat dirt and die, most especially Number 85. I am going to light a black candle for you Number 85, and ask the gods to give you ebola. Today had to be the worst officiated game in recent memory, and I speak as some one who has seen SBP referees in action in NAASCU Season 9. Inconsistency is not the problem but sheer ineptitude of Numbers 83, 84 and 85 in today's Ateneo-Adamson game. These are the same gang of zebras that include a lot of the best in the game, and yet these three numbskulls made a total and utter mockery of the game today. It was not just their calls against Ateneo, they screwed Adamson over just as well.

To Commissioner Joe Lipa and Romy Guevara, please get your zebras' shit together. Your good names are being dragged through pig manure by the incompetence of your zebras.


Kalaban na naman ng Ateneo ang referees, Joe? Eh di sanay na sanay na tayo diyan! ::)



Seriously though, THE REFEREES HAVE TO GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER. Joe's right, it's not just the bad calls against Ateneo, but bad calls left and right.

Of course, NABRO was bad because of how they fucked up calls and managed to time them whenever a team was gaining momentum, but these present UAAP referees are plain incompetent.

HOY REFEREE! WALANG HALAGA YANG PRE-GAME WARMUP NINYO KUNG TANGA KAYO TUMAWAG NG LARO!

bchoter
08-04-2009, 01:28 PM
To referee Numbers 83, 84 and 85, you can all eat dirt and die, most especially Number 85. I am going to light a black candle for you Number 85, and ask the gods to give you ebola. Today had to be the worst officiated game in recent memory, and I speak as some one who has seen SBP referees in action in NAASCU Season 9. Inconsistency is not the problem but sheer ineptitude of Numbers 83, 84 and 85 in today's Ateneo-Adamson game. These are the same gang of zebras that include a lot of the best in the game, and yet these three numbskulls made a total and utter mockery of the game today. It was not just their calls against Ateneo, they screwed Adamson over just as well.

To Commissioner Joe Lipa and Romy Guevara, please get your zebras' shit together. Your good names are being dragged through pig manure by the incompetence of your zebras.


Kalaban na naman ng Ateneo ang referees, Joe? Eh di sanay na sanay na tayo diyan! ::)



Seriously though, THE REFEREES HAVE TO GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER. Joe's right, it's not just the bad calls against Ateneo, but bad calls left and right.

Of course, NABRO was bad because of how they fucked up calls and managed to time them whenever a team was gaining momentum, but these present UAAP referees are plain incompetent.

HOY REFEREE! WALANG HALAGA YANG PRE-GAME WARMUP NINYO KUNG TANGA KAYO TUMAWAG NG LARO!
Light me one more candle for #84 pareng Joe. Bayaran ko nalang when I see you. &^%*^%% na nya.

thadzonline
08-04-2009, 10:32 PM
seems like CeSAFI also has its share of officiating woes. CIT versus UC earlier. Refs allowing a sub to take the free throws in place of the fouled player. In another instance, a player with established position and with the ball gets bumped, loses his footing and the ball, and was called for travelling. Fajardo was also called for a foul on a very clean block that looked more like a volleyball spike. It's not that it favored one team, but officiating was spotty and wanting on both ends of the floor.

coreytaylor
08-05-2009, 05:32 PM
seems like CeSAFI also has its share of officiating woes. CIT versus UC earlier. Refs allowing a sub to take the free throws in place of the fouled player. In another instance, a player with established position and with the ball gets bumped, loses his footing and the ball, and was called for travelling. Fajardo was also called for a foul on a very clean block that looked more like a volleyball spike. It's not that it favored one team, but officiating was spotty and wanting on both ends of the floor.

dinaya na yan

atenean_blooded
08-05-2009, 05:41 PM
seems like CeSAFI also has its share of officiating woes. CIT versus UC earlier. Refs allowing a sub to take the free throws in place of the fouled player.


Didn't this happen in the La Salle vs. UST game?

Joescoundrel
08-06-2009, 12:10 AM
UAAP Referee Number 84, now even UST HATES your f---ing arse, keep it up hotshot!

bchoter
08-09-2009, 07:09 PM
seems like CeSAFI also has its share of officiating woes. CIT versus UC earlier. Refs allowing a sub to take the free throws in place of the fouled player.


Didn't this happen in the La Salle vs. UST game?
Not sure but it seems like it's the 2nd time I've seen Malabes goes down from an injury and then somebody takes the FTs for him

atenean_blooded
08-09-2009, 08:36 PM
Refs, halatang halata na kayo ng mga Atenista. ;D

Huwag naman kayo mandaya, utang na loob. :)

Mikhail
08-09-2009, 10:11 PM
Refs, halatang halata na kayo ng mga Atenista. ;D

Huwag naman kayo mandaya, utang na loob. :)


Yung #84 ang sarap sana batuhin. :-\

pio_valenz
08-09-2009, 10:13 PM
Refs, halatang halata na kayo ng mga Atenista. ;D

Huwag naman kayo mandaya, utang na loob. :)


Any calls in particular that you wish you point out? I'll make sure they reach Commish Joe.

atenean_blooded
08-09-2009, 11:32 PM
Refs, halatang halata na kayo ng mga Atenista. ;D

Huwag naman kayo mandaya, utang na loob. :)


Any calls in particular that you wish you point out? I'll make sure they reach Commish Joe.


I'll go over the replays again.

In the meantime, I'm sure Joe's sentiments might give us an idea of what ought to reach the Commish.


By the way, can we clarify a few things?

Why wasn't Webb thrown out? Is a kick like what he did different from the closed fist that would normally merit a suspension?

Joescoundrel
08-10-2009, 01:47 AM
^ Blood, it was deemed as an "unsportsmanlike foul" and thus does not merit getting thrown out.

Kudos to Referee Number 27 who was the senior referee today. He kept order. All of the travels, charging fouls, easy hand checks, blocking fouls and everything else, was called satisfactorily today, i.e. they were consistent enough, how it was called one way was how it was called the other way.

Shoot, even Referee Number 84 was Ok today.

Mateen Cleaves
08-10-2009, 07:23 AM
Agree. The game was generally well-officiated and thus had a nice flow to it. Really entertaining to watch. The unsportsmanlike fouls on Al-Hussaini, Webb and Atkins were all correct.

BigBlue
08-10-2009, 08:50 AM
what did atkins do to merit the unsportsmanlike foul? it was difficult to see what happened all the way from upper b.

Mateen Cleaves
08-10-2009, 12:53 PM
I didn't catch which Blue Eagle he pushed/shoved during the scrum. He might have been defending/protecting Webb who was on the floor. But it was too aggressive a gesture and stance not to be called.

RockLobster
08-10-2009, 07:16 PM
Could've been Austria who committed the initial looseball foul. He was the recipient of the kick from Webb. He stood up and moved towards Webb while the latter was still sprawled on the floor. That would've been the time Atkins moved in to block out and push away Austria.

shyboy
08-10-2009, 08:04 PM
Watch the Webb-Austria altercation starting at the 50 sec. mark. Judge for yourselves if that Austria foul is a dangerous undercut or otherwise. Also, I don't think Atkins deserved the unsportsmanlike foul based on the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV4LmAWM9ck

gfy
08-10-2009, 08:27 PM
^ He might just have been protecting himself. He didn't move an inch towards Webb to really undercut him which could have caused more injury to Webb.

shyboy
08-10-2009, 09:07 PM
^ He didn't move an inch towards Webb? While Webb just went straight up, Austria jumped sideways towards Webb's direction, hitting him in the thighs causing to land awkwardly.

glock23
08-10-2009, 10:02 PM
^ He might just have been protecting himself. He didn't move an inch towards Webb to really undercut him which could have caused more injury to Webb.


Gee, yes he didnt move an inch, he moved a foot towards Webb!

Im not condoning what Joshua did but please do not say that bacon did not move an inch 'cause it was seen several times on tv that he did.

glock23
08-10-2009, 10:15 PM
seems like CeSAFI also has its share of officiating woes. CIT versus UC earlier. Refs allowing a sub to take the free throws in place of the fouled player.


Didn't this happen in the La Salle vs. UST game?
Not sure but it seems like it's the 2nd time I've seen Malabes goes down from an injury and then somebody takes the FTs for him


Manong, Bader was grimacing in pain even before he got the inbound pass and tried his best to bring the ball past half court when he was fouled.

I dont see anything wrong with replacing a player who is obviously in pain. Do you?

bchoter
08-11-2009, 12:01 AM
Just the same, I think he's been hurt twice and had to be replaced both times. On both occassions ata UST din ang kalaban

atenean_blooded
08-11-2009, 12:30 AM
Another strange foul was the last foul called Hyram Bagatsing.

I also agree that Simon Atkins did not deserve the unsportsmanlike foul, although as Mateen has pointed out, it might have been seen as too aggressive a gesture.

I'll accept that what Austria did in fouling Webb was probably dangerous. But I'm not surprised that he tried to body up Webb while trying to grab the rebound himself. Bacon's timing was wrong, hence the danger. But I maintain that Joshua Webb should have probably been thrown out of the game and suspended for that shameless, unwarranted, unsportsmanlike, and pathetic kick he gave Austria. There is no justification for an act like that. I am thankful that cooler heads prevailed, especially through the intervention of the nearby La Salle bench, and a deterioration of the situation springing from what Webb did was prevented.

That said, I understand that the kick was deemed "unsportsmanlike."

But can somebody differentiate between a kick like this and the closed fist or other flagrant fouls that will cause a player to get thrown out of a game?

mangtsito
08-11-2009, 02:33 AM
Anyone who thinks a closed fist is worse than a kick should receive both in succession to feel the difference.

gfy
08-11-2009, 05:36 AM
When Bacon jumped for the ball, of course he was kind of boxing out Webb. I was referring to when Bacon landed on the floor and in a crouching position. He didnt move, as other players with intent to harm do, to be under Webb.

gfy
08-11-2009, 05:42 AM
Just the same, I think he's been hurt twice and had to be replaced both times. On both occassions ata UST din ang kalaban


I thought in situations like this the player who was replaced couldnt come back to the game for a few minutes. Otherwise, a player could just fake injury and be replaced by a better freethrow shooter.

shyboy
08-11-2009, 08:08 AM
Another strange foul was the last foul called Hyram Bagatsing.

I also agree that Simon Atkins did not deserve the unsportsmanlike foul, although as Mateen has pointed out, it might have been seen as too aggressive a gesture.

I'll accept that what Austria did in fouling Webb was probably dangerous. But I'm not surprised that he tried to body up Webb while trying to grab the rebound himself. Bacon's timing was wrong, hence the danger. But I maintain that Joshua Webb should have probably been thrown out of the game and suspended for that shameless, unwarranted, unsportsmanlike, and pathetic kick he gave Austria. There is no justification for an act like that. I am thankful that cooler heads prevailed, especially through the intervention of the nearby La Salle bench, and a deterioration of the situation springing from what Webb did was prevented.

That said, I understand that the kick was deemed "unsportsmanlike."

But can somebody differentiate between a kick like this and the closed fist or other flagrant fouls that will cause a player to get thrown out of a game?

Tao lang. Probably if any of you would be in the same situation as Webb's, sahurin kayo in mid-air and in that split second your life could be on the line and you desperately try to land as safely as possible, instinctively maaasar din kayo and most likely babawi. Iisipin niyo pa ba kung sadya muna yon or hindi bago bumawi? Still, the zebras need to mete out the proper penalties. However, I don't believe Austria's penalty should be any lesser than that of Joshua's.

Mateen Cleaves
08-11-2009, 08:27 AM
But can somebody differentiate between a kick like this and the closed fist or other flagrant fouls that will cause a player to get thrown out of a game?


This is strictly my personal interpretation.

In the spirit of letting players determine the outcome of games, officials are not going to call disqualifying fouls ("Flagrant-2" in a pro league terminology) very loosely. Handicappiing one team by taking away one player, in a way, detracts from the ideal of the game being decided by two teams at full strength. So ejections are going to be called only under the strictest of conditions. Unsportsmanlike fouls (Flagrant-1) would be the first course of action in most cases. Unsporstmanlike fouls, on their own, can already have a significant impact on the game outcome. Four or five points, if the team cashes in on both free throws and the bonus possession. How much more would the game be affected if you add a player ejection on top of it?

When is a disqualifying foul called? Context and effect are definitely considered. Not quite "no blood, no foul", but that's probably close enough to the concept. A punch to the face likely gets you thrown out. But a second-motion jab to the stomach in retaliation to an elbow might not. Kick/push off to the ribs? Probably not. Eat-my-Adidas to the nose? See ya! It helps if the players respond immediately to the referees' whistles. "Pag sinabing awat na, awat na!" When the refs have begun to get the situation under control, don't try and escalate tensions. That's the difference between Webb-Austria and Riel Cervantes-Pari Llagas, IMO.

The degree of subjectivity (or restraint) involved in determining unsportsmanlike vs disqualifying fouls will probably not satisfy people looking for black-and-white rules. However, it's important to emphasize that punches, kicks, elbows -- even if they don't connect -- will always be considered fouls. To that extent, the referees will be unequivocal. It's the assessment of the gravity of the offense, and the corresponding penalty, that isn't so clear-cut.

shyboy - Wasn't Austria called for the foul on the play, PLUS a technical foul? In effect, quits lang yung unsportsmanlike ni Webb and Austria's technical. Ateneo got the freethrows and ball possession because of Atkins unsportsmanlike foul.

atenean_blooded
08-12-2009, 01:01 AM
Tao lang. Probably if any of you would be in the same situation as Webb's, sahurin kayo in mid-air and in that split second your life could be on the line and you desperately try to land as safely as possible, instinctively maaasar din kayo and most likely babawi. Iisipin niyo pa ba kung sadya muna yon or hindi bago bumawi? Still, the zebras need to mete out the proper penalties. However, I don't believe Austria's penalty should be any lesser than that of Joshua's.


I understand, but most respectfully disagree.

If I were in Webb's position, I honestly would have done one of 2 things: I would have screamed and hurled curses at Bacon, or I would've punched him, preferably when he was standing up and could easily retaliate. I wouldn't have tried to kick him when we were both down in the hope that I would be able to get away with it.

Of course, shyboy, I will admit that I am able to say that because of the benefit and clarity of hindsight and of being far removed from that situation on-court.

Regarding the penalties, I must also most respectfully disagree: That Bacon was intentionally out to hurt Webb or threaten his physical safety is a matter of opinion. Bacon was called for the foul due to the contact, as has already been pointed out.

Webb's obviously deliberate kicking of Bacon, however, is not the same as that, since Webb was clearly out to hurt Bacon. And the situation being subjective, if I was the referee, I would have called at least an unsportsmanlike foul on Webb for the kick, or would have even called a Flagrant-2 on him.

atenean_blooded
08-12-2009, 01:01 AM
But can somebody differentiate between a kick like this and the closed fist or other flagrant fouls that will cause a player to get thrown out of a game?


This is strictly my personal interpretation.

In the spirit of letting players determine the outcome of games, officials are not going to call disqualifying fouls ("Flagrant-2" in a pro league terminology) very loosely. Handicappiing one team by taking away one player, in a way, detracts from the ideal of the game being decided by two teams at full strength. So ejections are going to be called only under the strictest of conditions. Unsportsmanlike fouls (Flagrant-1) would be the first course of action in most cases. Unsporstmanlike fouls, on their own, can already have a significant impact on the game outcome. Four or five points, if the team cashes in on both free throws and the bonus possession. How much more would the game be affected if you add a player ejection on top of it?

When is a disqualifying foul called? Context and effect are definitely considered. Not quite "no blood, no foul", but that's probably close enough to the concept. A punch to the face likely gets you thrown out. But a second-motion jab to the stomach in retaliation to an elbow might not. Kick/push off to the ribs? Probably not. Eat-my-Adidas to the nose? See ya! It helps if the players respond immediately to the referees' whistles. "Pag sinabing awat na, awat na!" When the refs have begun to get the situation under control, don't try and escalate tensions. That's the difference between Webb-Austria and Riel Cervantes-Pari Llagas, IMO.

The degree of subjectivity (or restraint) involved in determining unsportsmanlike vs disqualifying fouls will probably not satisfy people looking for black-and-white rules. However, it's important to emphasize that punches, kicks, elbows -- even if they don't connect -- will always be considered fouls. To that extent, the referees will be unequivocal. It's the assessment of the gravity of the offense, and the corresponding penalty, that isn't so clear-cut.


Excellent analysis. At least the distinctions seem clearer.

pablohoney
08-19-2009, 01:39 AM
Just the same, I think he's been hurt twice and had to be replaced both times. On both occassions ata UST din ang kalaban


I thought in situations like this the player who was replaced couldnt come back to the game for a few minutes. Otherwise, a player could just fake injury and be replaced by a better freethrow shooter.


I thought nakabalik ba si Malabes sa game. ???

elvis
08-20-2009, 05:01 PM
What is it with the refs being too trigger happy in calling double lane violations after every missed 2nd (or 3rd) free throw? Not only is it unfair for the side whose players do not actually violate the rule but it also disrupts the flow of the game.

This is only one example: In the 4th quarter of last Sunday's ADMU-DLSU game, in the 2:03 minute mark of the 4th quarter Barua missed his 2nd free throw. Villanueva obviously stepped in prior to the shot being taken (Nonoy even pointing it out to the ref). Still the ref called a double lane violation. Buti na lang possession arrow pointed to Ateneo. In the ensuing play, Nonoy made a shot and was fouled in the process. He missed the and-1 but a violation wasn't called I think only because there were no blue shirts attempting to rebound even if Bringas crossed the line early. Fortunately Jai who was the only one there out-hustled Bringas and eventually got possession.

bchoter
08-24-2009, 12:36 AM
So it looks like the "faking a foul" is not in effect. There were so many many acts in that game that will make Kris Aquino the best actress. Worst, in one instance where that player flopped and then acknowledged the contact, lo and behold, it was the offensive player who was called a foul.

Mateen Cleaves
08-24-2009, 09:19 AM
Tinanong ko yang "faking the foul" na 'yan. Kung merong equivalent sa UAAP basketball ng yellow card for taking a dive in football. No such call, daw.

If a defender falls down deliberately, that's already to the offensive player's advantage. So, let go lang. However, if the defender on the floor does something, like raise his legs and trips the offensive player... puedeng tawagan ng unsportsmanlike foul.

xxiocebu
08-24-2009, 09:56 AM
Tao lang. Probably if any of you would be in the same situation as Webb's, sahurin kayo in mid-air and in that split second your life could be on the line and you desperately try to land as safely as possible, instinctively maaasar din kayo and most likely babawi. Iisipin niyo pa ba kung sadya muna yon or hindi bago bumawi? Still, the zebras need to mete out the proper penalties. However, I don't believe Austria's penalty should be any lesser than that of Joshua's.



The big problem is that after the incident Joshua shook his hands to act as if nothing happened. If you kick a guy in retaliation, be man enough to own up to it at least.

atenean_blooded
08-30-2009, 10:23 PM
To the UAAP referees who officiated in today's Ateneo-Adamson game:

Garapalan na ba 'to? :)

Joescoundrel
09-01-2009, 03:59 PM
UAAP Referee Number 84 is a DISGRACE to the profession, to the league and to the game.

This man should be abducted, tortured brutally then shot in both knees.

chocoks77
09-01-2009, 05:08 PM
Ipadampot ko na kay Duterte Manong Joe

jembengzon
09-14-2009, 03:08 PM
i've never thought it was possible to say nabro was wanted, bwahaha ;D

joelex
09-14-2009, 03:43 PM
Last Sasturday's FEU-ADMU match didnt even bother hiding another Binondo script. As per reports FEU was an astounding money favorite and something had to be done with the Tams up 18. Alas they get into penalty halfway thru the 4th and allowed the Eagles to crawl back. The 1 pt spread was exactly what the bookmakers wanted as both teams wre pegged at -1.5 meaning a 1 point game would make the bangka collect from both FEU and Ateneo bets. As for the ateneans crying out for the calls, they're probably watching another ballgame. Nasa kanila ang tawag nung baon na sila ng malaki.

Kid Cubao
09-14-2009, 03:57 PM
^^ WTF? ateneo had two players bloodied that game, bacon and justin, and you're saying we got the sweet end of the deal?

joelex
09-14-2009, 05:05 PM
maybe there were missed calls, but definitely the trend out of binondo was that they needed ateneo to catch up and prevent feu form winning big. as evidenced by the early penalty on feu in the 4th.

Kid Cubao
09-14-2009, 05:10 PM
si ryan buenafe ang dahilan kung bakit na-penalty kagad ang FEU, hindi ang mga refs. i do hope you watched the same game as the rest of us.

mangtsito
09-15-2009, 02:36 AM
(Don't bother, Cubao. He never does watch the same game as the rest of us since 2006.)

chocoks77
09-20-2009, 04:57 PM
Again, dapat sa mga referees na ganyan ganito ang ginagawa:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GUqqGp28OI

atenean_blooded
08-25-2010, 05:45 PM
UAAP Season 73 has many highlights.

A lot of them including bad officiating.

What's to be done?

BedanRoar
08-25-2010, 06:40 PM
UAAP Season 73 has many highlights.

A lot of them including bad officiating.

What's to be done?


Goes the same with NCAA Season 86.

Grievances are all over the net!

Jeep
10-27-2010, 12:16 PM
lebron james goes charging into paul pierce, with an elbow to the latter's throat to boot. and paul gets the blocking foul. even marv albert and steve kerr thought as much.

what gives? i thought NBA refs would be just a tad higher up the totem pole than anywhere else.

ganun din pala. even the bawi call on lebron later.

kerouac82
06-29-2011, 09:50 PM
May pasabog ang NABRO this coming week!


































Heto o. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/28/nabra-volcano-eruption-nasa-eritrea_n_886430.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000008)

Joescoundrel
06-30-2011, 08:27 AM
With SBP referees once again doiung their usual work in the Fil Oil, it should be interesting to see how the whistle it in Season 74 of the UAAP. Calls are either ticky-tack or let-go, and there are just plain too damn many Avon/Revlon calls. This is not just about getting fair whistle, but more so about keeping the game safe for the players actually in it, and not letting things deteriorate to the point where actual fracasses will result.

oca
07-01-2011, 06:19 AM
SBP refs ba tatawag sa UAAP @74?

Based on how they officiated this last Fil-Oil, I would be particularly concerned on two things --

-- Hard and illegal contacts away from play na di nakikita o di tinatawagan.

-- Contacts after the whistle na pinapabayaan lang kadalasan.

Dyan sa mga puntong iyan marami silang sablay.

Pag di napituhan ang ganitong contacts, it inevitably escalates to something more ugly and sinister. Nakikinita kong maraming magkakapikunan at magkakahamunan nito, more than we all have been accustomed to in the UAAP.

Jeep
07-01-2011, 10:24 AM
which is why, to be fair, i thought that, during their last season in the UAAP, NABRO called the game pretty well. it was really tight. madampihan lang ng kamay mo ang bewang o pwetan ng binabantayan mo, may pito na kaagad. in the finals series of that season, our opponents bewailed their perception that the refs were calling it in our favor -- conveniently forgetting that we had to sit our star big man and our main playmaker because of 2 quick fouls.

so, all things considered, i would appreciate that kind of officiating. sure, let the boys play. but let them play according to the zebs' rules. they make the call, we adjust.

Joescoundrel
07-01-2011, 01:01 PM
I wonder why the SBP referees are the ones calling it in the UAAP, pero NABRO naman sa NCAA. I recall the change came after the 2008 season, the first of the Ateneo grand slam titles. SBP referees have allowed far too much contact, more than the ticky-tack calls over the last two seasons in the UAAP and the Fil Oil. Talagang nagkakasakitan ang players, and this happened across the board, not just to one or two particular schools. And there is just a smugness to SBP referees that is truly infuriating. Parang sinasabi sa coaches, sa players, at sa buong stadium "Ganun ang gusto kong ipito, ano pakialam mo, gusto mo pitohan ko pa ng pitohan mga bata niyo..."

Raging Blue
07-01-2011, 01:44 PM
If you were watching the recently concluded Fil-oil Summer Cup, there were a lot of instances where players were gnawing at each other after some intense physical episodes where the referees had to step in to prevent a melee from erupting. And the pag-iinitan between players were not due to the summer heat as they were playing in a venue with strong air-conditioning, The Arena. Given the intense nature of the basketball games even for a pre-season tournament, the Fil-oil commissioners should have taken preemptive action by instructing the referees call it tight right from the start. Fortunately for the league, no full-blown fracas ensued.

So expect more of these "paggigiritan" for the coming UAAP season. I hope Commissioner Andy Jao will measure up to the task of making sure the zebras manage this delicate balance of physicality among the players lest a full blown free-for-all ensues.

atenean_blooded
07-03-2011, 06:27 PM
As I said elsewhere, perhaps we can have the names of the referees printed on their shirts/jerseys/pants etc. I mean, if cheerleaders' names can get printed on their uniforms, I'm sure printing the names of the referees is possible.

Sam Miguel
07-19-2011, 07:47 AM
Something of great interest from Phil Star online ___

UAAP commish to suspend ref

By Olmin Leyba

MANILA, Philippines - UAAP Season 74 commissioner Andy Jao is likely to crack the whip on a referee who officiated Saturday’s matchup between defending champion Ateneo and archrival La Salle at the Araneta Coliseum.

Referee Amado Soriano faces possible suspension for “poor performance and judgment” especially in the second half of the Ateneo-La Salle tussle, which the Blue Eagles won, 81-72.

“I still don’t have the official action but I plan to suspend Soriano until the end of the first round and (we’ll) evaluate after that,” Jao told The STAR yesterday.

No formal complaint was filed by either teams but Jao and his staff took it upon themselves to take action. They reviewed the tape of the game yesterday and would write supervisor Romy Guevarra and the UAAP board about their decision later this week.

“We’re trying to maintain a high standard so that everybody will be satisfied. We’re working on that. And there’s no timetable. We want to start from the very beginning, that’s why if I find some instances like this, we have to act immediately,” Jao said.

He admitted there’s still some work to be done in so far as officiating is concerned.

“(Overall) It leaves something to be desired. We always have high standards but there can never be a perfect game called in the same way as there can never be a perfect game played or coached, whether it’s from a player or a coach’s point of view,” he said.

Mikhail
07-20-2011, 06:10 AM
Hindi ba alam ng UAAP refs ang kung ano ang "lane violation"? Bakit lahat na lang e double lane violations? ??? ???

Joescoundrel
07-27-2011, 02:26 PM
Hindi lang pala Ateneo ang niluluto sa point spread...

mangtsito
07-31-2011, 12:43 PM
“I still don’t have the official action but I plan to suspend Soriano until the end of the first round and (we’ll) evaluate after that,” Jao told The STAR yesterday.



End of the first round, eh? ::)