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View Full Version : why do players use up the shot clock during the final seconds of a won game?



fmanyakis
06-10-2008, 01:53 PM
i notice this a lot lately, even in amateur leagues now. before we can somehow understand why NBA players dribble away the time in the closing seconds of a won game. just want to know what is really behind this act of respect or gesture(?)

bchoter
06-10-2008, 02:18 PM
^ yes, it is , in a way, an act of respect to the opponent. That's why some find this certain coach's time out in the waning seconds of a game whose result was beyond recall as uncalled for. For players, only the ones who hardly play who are very eager to shoot the ball in the said situation.

fmanyakis
06-10-2008, 02:42 PM
if that's the case, isnt it contrary to the original concept of basketball which is scoring more points as much as possible? another observation is about calling timeouts naman, i remember just recently, tim cone felt disrespected (or insulted?) by an opposing coach for calling a timeout even when the opponent is leading by a mile. come to think of it, the winning coach has, in his discretion, authority to do what he wants as long as it is within the bounds of the rules. there's nothing wrong with trying out new strategies or plays if you have the luxury of the winning margin dont you think? nothing against tim cone or whoever but its just an observation.

bchoter
06-10-2008, 03:09 PM
It is not, strictly, to score as much points as possibly but, more importantly, to score more than the opponent's score. Why is calling unnecessary timeouts when the game is beyond recall? There is such thing as sportsmanship, which all sports promote.

Jeep
06-10-2008, 03:36 PM
similarly, something may be legal but unethical or even immoral. the law, or in the case of a game, the rules won't prevent you from doing something. but unwritten rules as regards human decency and respect for your opponent and the spirit in which that rule or law was written should keep you from doing so. the law may allow you to claim certain exemptions to minimize your tax exposure, and your accountant would probably help you do so. it's legal, but is it ethical or moral?

there was a game last week in the PBA which showcased this exact situation. can't recall which game that is now, but up until the last second the winning team was just dribbling away the time. at the last second, the ballcarrier fired a trey, which went in. i think it was the import of the opposing team that let the shooter know that his shot was unnecessary and uncalled for.

Kid Cubao
06-10-2008, 04:02 PM
if that's the case, isnt it contrary to the original concept of basketball which is scoring more points as much as possible? another observation is about calling timeouts naman, i remember just recently, tim cone felt disrespected (or insulted?) by an opposing coach for calling a timeout even when the opponent is leading by a mile. come to think of it, the winning coach has, in his discretion, authority to do what he wants as long as it is within the bounds of the rules. there's nothing wrong with trying out new strategies or plays if you have the luxury of the winning margin dont you think? nothing against tim cone or whoever but its just an observation.

in basketball, as in life, it is best to avoid adding insult to injury, because there's no telling when it's your turn to be dealt that fate. sa basketball, malalaman mo naman kung sumuko na ang kalaban dahil ipinasok na yung mga reserves. in which case, the winning coach should reciprocate the gesture by pulling out his current five and replacing them with his own reserves. bastusan na yun kung hanggang sa matapos yung laro, you keep running up the score.

BigBlue
06-10-2008, 04:13 PM
in so many words, don't kick a man when he's down.

i also recall the incident between the knicks and the nuggets last season, the game that led to the suspensions of Carmelo Anthony, JR Smith, Mardy Collins, Nate Robinson etc. Although it in no way justifies the actions of the players involved in the brawl, its a classic example of how running up the score can lead to severely bruised egos for both players and coaches.

pio_valenz
06-11-2008, 10:29 PM
Kung panalo na kayo, no need to prolong your opponents' agony. Respect your opponent and respect the game. And IMHO the objective of the game is not to score as many points as possible. It's to score more points than your opponent by game's end. If you have already accomplished that with plenty to spare, then no need to add more points.

MonL
06-11-2008, 11:49 PM
The times, they are a changin'.

In WWI, fighter pilots had a so-called "Code of the Air" which governed conduct during aerial combat. If, for instance, a plane in a dogfight has run out of ammunition, the pilot simply waves his spent ammo belts at his opponent and the dogfight is over; both live to fight another day.* Hence WWI pilots were considered "Knights of the Air."

But nowadays,* if it is an enemy, splash it. Regardless if he can fight or not. War is war.

It depends on the frame of mind. Many in sports still have that same gentlemen's mentality; others, at the other end have that mindset to "murder the bum." ;D

And basketball when it was first conceptualized was not a contact sport. :)

Jaco D
06-12-2008, 02:47 AM
Though I agree with the unwritten code of "not kicking your opponent when he's down and out" there may be factors outside of sportsmanship that throw this gentleman's agreement out of the window.* In Toronto, a local pizza chain has this promo when the Raptors are playing at the Air Canada Centre wherein ticket holders can redeem their tickets for a slice of pizza if the Rappies (not sure kung Raptors lang o yung kalaban as well) score 100 points or more.* So sometimes you can hear a lynch-mob rumble of "pizza, pizza..." kung malayo pa sa siyento yung score at last two minutes na.* The thing is, from what I recall (I could be wrong), you never hear the "pizza yell" kung dikit ang laban.* More often than not, kung tambak na ang isang koponan saka mo lang maririnig ito.* There probably are other similar schemes all over the basketball playing world.

Ang babaw, no?* But then again, are the Rappies and their ilk athletes or entertainers?* So far I can't recall teams complain of opponents breaking the gentleman's rule for the sake of pizza.* Maybe they really are entertainers before athletes.

LION
06-12-2008, 09:38 AM
If the losing team is deserving of respect, then I agree the winning team should not run up the score. But if the losing team has been taunting and jeering and trash talking the winning team from the get go, then the losing team deserves to be buried by an avalance of points even down to the last second of the game.*

pio_valenz
06-12-2008, 10:50 AM
^But pareng LION, even if your opponent lacks class, wouldn't it be classy on your part to still honor the gentleman's agreement? Because if you run up the score just to spite them for their boorish behavior, wouldn't that make you no better than them?

fmanyakis
06-12-2008, 03:23 PM
but isnt it the only way you can retaliate to your classless opponent? by doing the beating on court? after all its just a game at the end of the day. all those trash talking has been answered before the buzzer sounded.

LION
06-12-2008, 03:30 PM
^But pareng LION, even if your opponent lacks class, wouldn't it be classy on your part to still honor the gentleman's agreement? Because if you run up the score just to spite them for their boorish behavior, wouldn't that make you no better than them?


Ok sir. I surrender! That was just the dark side of me talking. ;D

pio_valenz
06-12-2008, 08:15 PM
but isnt it the only way you can retaliate to your classless opponent? by doing the beating on court? after all its just a game at the end of the day. all those trash talking has been answered before the buzzer sounded.

You're contradicting yourself. On the one hand, you espouse "retaliating" against your classless opponent. On the other hand, you also admit that it's just a game. Well, if it's just a game then no need to get too worked up about retaliating, right?

I'll ask you this: do you really need to retaliate?

rafi
06-12-2008, 09:10 PM
similarly, something may be legal but unethical or even immoral. the law, or in the case of a game, the rules won't prevent you from doing something. but unwritten rules as regards human decency and respect for your opponent and the spirit in which that rule or law was written should keep you from doing so. the law may allow you to claim certain exemptions to minimize your tax exposure, and your accountant would probably help you do so. it's legal, but is it ethical or moral?

there was a game last week in the PBA which showcased this exact situation. can't recall which game that is now, but up until the last second the winning team was just dribbling away the time. at the last second, the ballcarrier fired a trey, which went in. i think it was the import of the opposing team that let the shooter know that his shot was unnecessary and uncalled for.

it was coke's alex cabagnot dribbling on the sideline in the dying seconds with an insurmountable lead. he then decided to take a three point shot at which point jimmy alapag quickly rushed over and gave him a bump. cabagnot even asked the ref for a foul which simply infuriated alapag who had to be restrained by his teammates from confronting cabagnot

Joescoundrel
06-12-2008, 11:33 PM
I wonder though if this would be the situation if for instance it is a FIBA game with strict observance of the quotient system?

I remember in amateur tournaments in the 1970's and 1980's teams would pile it on even up to the final buzzer. They did this in tournaments that strictly observed the quotient system, i.e. the bigger your plus-quotient the better your chances of advancing to the next level (semifinals and such) all the way to the crown.

It was not meant to disrespect an opponent: it was simply playing smart basketball.

Kid Cubao
06-13-2008, 09:01 AM
syempre iba ang usapan sa pro basketball at FIBA tournaments. sa pro basketball, palibhasa stretched out ang season o conference, ang pinag-uusapan dyan ay paramihan ng panalo. sa mga FIBA o olympic tournaments na may brackets at kung saan magwawakas ang elims after six games, hindi lang panalo ang hinahabol mo kundi pati "points for." kaya tama si joe, sa FIBA tournaments, hindi lang panalo kundi lamang sa puntos ang hinahabol sa dahilang iba ang competitive environment nila sa pros.

GHRanger
06-13-2008, 01:38 PM
^ The first thing that entered my mind was the quotient system. In the UAAP, the quotient system is determined in recent years to break 3 way ties. So it would help to get a higher quotient. Unlike the PBA/NBA where they play a longer season, the possibility of having a n-way tie is significantly smaller than say a 12-14 game season.

Depende nga sa situation.

Howard the Duck
06-16-2008, 01:46 AM
kung playoffs balewala ang quotient system ;D

pero sa UAAP di naman talaga importate ang quotient kasi maglalaro pa rin kahit tied na. sa volleyball nga, three way tie nag playoff sila ng 2 games for the #1 seed. like WTF

Emon74
10-23-2008, 08:32 PM
american colony na ang thinking ng mga players ngayon, pag talo na bigay bola sa ref o kaya dribble ng dribble until the final buzzer, they wont even attempt to shoot, noon, ang dami nakatanim sa isipan ko na memorable games sa PBA kahit tambak na because players keeps shooting the ball, nandyan yun showtime, papasok pa mga bangko and they would give the ball to them in order to pile up stats. I think yan ang na miss out ng present generation of basketball fans when players before gave fans their money's worth, I remember an Air 21 game last fiesta cup when Arboleda just keeps dribbling the ball tinataasan pa niya pag dribble about 20 seconds left of a won ballgame, as a fan, I dont see how anyone could appreciate that kind of gesture, basketball should be entertaining til the last second.

Mateen Cleaves
10-24-2008, 06:46 PM
syempre iba ang usapan sa pro basketball at FIBA tournaments. sa pro basketball, palibhasa stretched out ang season o conference, ang pinag-uusapan dyan ay paramihan ng panalo. sa mga FIBA o olympic tournaments na may brackets at kung saan magwawakas ang elims after six games, hindi lang panalo ang hinahabol mo kundi pati "points for." kaya tama si joe, sa FIBA tournaments, hindi lang panalo kundi lamang sa puntos ang hinahabol sa dahilang iba ang competitive environment nila sa pros.


Am not sure, pero medyo iba na ata ang paggamit ng quotient sa amateurs. I think that in cases of ties, the first criterion, would be winner-over-other. Thus, scores wouldn't matter. But if they do need to go to quotient, only the games against (the tied teams) are counted. That means, running up the score against teams like Malayan High School (or UPIS* :'( ) won't matter in the tie-breaks, 'di ba?

Kid Cubao
11-05-2008, 05:25 AM
^^ yes, the malayan example is a sore example of self-gratification on the part of JRU high school and keith agovida. the red robins were already out of the running for the final 4, so his 82-point explosion against a team of matadors and traffic enforcers was clearly intended to boost his statistical chances for the NCAA juniors MVP award and, very possibly, to window-dress his game worth to college scouts. for me, though, far more impressive was BJ cipriano's reggie miller-like performance against heavyweights san beda, letran, and san sebastian in the second round of NCAA juniors action in 2007. he basically carried JRU on his shoulders as they made their final push toward the semis, and his scoring burst was rewarded with a ticket to the big dance.