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esjay
03-30-2006, 10:50 PM
i was hoping to see the philippine college basketball to be patterned in US BASKETBALL division schools

ive seen alot of great and teams (college team) who deserves a break to be included an paired up with the teams that are exposed to the public.

ive seen the st. francis, lyceum and other school that can give the uaap / ncaa a great match up.

DIVISION 1 TEAM COMPOSED OF THE TEAMS THAT has the capability to produce such player because of their materials and program they have

isnt great seeing again the college basketball grow and defy the boarders of each schools

bchoter
04-03-2006, 02:56 PM
The Champions League is the closest thing to the US NCAA in terms of representation. However, unlike in the US NCAA where teams take the league and tournament competition seriously, some bigger teams in the Champion's League treat this tourney with lower regard than their own leagues.

Joescoundrel
04-03-2006, 11:07 PM
I would dearly love to see this come to pass, but I think, uh, economic realities will prevent this from ever happening. The UAAP presently has eight member-schools, each of which gets a slice of the league's revenue pie, mainly from media coverage, advertising, merchandise, etc-etc. Why on earth would these eight schools ever agree to a smaller piece of pie by admitting another eight schools into the league? Let's just say for the basketball season alone each school splits P100 Million in net revenues equally (P12.5 Million per school). Do you seriously think they would settle for only half that by doubling the number of schools splitting this pie?

Let's talk cost-benefit: How much would these new members be contributing in terms of actual market expansion or revenue opportunity for the league? Let's face it, Ateneo and Lasalle bring in the lion's (pardon me, my Beda friends) share of the revenue. How much - in actual terms - would schools like Letran, San Sebastian, etc-etc bring into the league? In other words: Wouldn't these new members benefit more from the league than the league benefiting from them? This would not, in other words, be a merger, it would be a gobble up, something that has not proved too good in the corporate world.

Could it work in local college basketball? It says here "no".

oca
04-04-2006, 08:46 AM
I just can't recall w/c event it was, but prize money was actually awarded to the champion school. I think it was the Champions League and it offered something like 500T to the champion.

Well, kung lalakihan ang prize money, I am sure, school administrators will not allow team management to regard the Champions League so lightly.

Merging the 2 big leagues is not feasible really. A student-athlete can only take so many training hours and game days in one semester.

Let's just pray that a new governing body for basketball will institutionalize a post NCAA/ UAAP event that will pit the top teams with their NCAA/ UAAP lineups. Of course my mention of NCAA/ UAAP is a mere reference to the collegiate basketball season, but does not exclude teams from south of Manila.

Howard the Duck
04-23-2006, 06:29 PM
A simple way to resolve this problem is to have the NCAA champion face the UAAP champion in a best of five series at sembreak. That'll be nice.

BLUE HORSE
04-24-2006, 02:23 AM
The current summer FMC is the closest thing to a unified tournament. The only schools missing are 2 NCAA schools and UP. Why they are missing has been discussed in this fora but in another thread. Majority of the schools are fielding their varsity team though the players of the top schools do not always play because of PBL commitment but everybody can gauge the strength of each team during the tournament.

Joescoundrel
04-24-2006, 03:23 PM
We must also consider the overall competitiveness of the teams should the UAAP and NCAA merge. NU, for all its historical suckiness, would still probably do quite a number on the likes of the present Benilde and JRU teams. Adamson and UST would also get more wins with other relatively weaker schools in the competition. And you can just imagine how much bloodier the recruitment wars will be.

How about this as an alternate proposal: A UAAP or NCAA South, composed of the top Vis-Min teams such as Cebu Central Colleges, University of the Visayas, San Carlos, De Paul, Ateneo De Davao, St Lasalle, Cebu Polytechnic, Mindanao State University, et al. Then both the UAAP and NCAA would become truly national in scope. Now I wonder who could spearhead such a project...?

Graham Lim? ;D

keempee
04-26-2006, 02:16 PM
there was a time when there was a national student's championship, which metro manila-schools would dominate along with the university of visayas and southwestern university. pero maganda nga if there will be one champion at the end of the season.

Schortsanitis
12-27-2007, 09:39 AM
I was wondering where to put this, on the UAAP, or NCAA section?* But since the effort came from a UAAP team (UP), I felt it would be best to put it on the UAAP section.*

If this pushes thru, expect it to one of the biggest events in the history of Philippine Basketball.* Who knows, it could even pave the way for a TRUE NATIONAL COLLEGIATE TOURNAMENT.*

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will happen, if not now, then later.* Am very excited of seeing the teams regularly playing against each other in a unified tournament.


******************


http://philstar.com/index.php?Sports&p=49&type=2&sec=30

UAAP-NCAA Merger Mulled
By Nelson Beltran
Thursday, December 27, 2007

If plans don’t miscarry, the UAAP and the NCAA, the country’s premier collegiate cage leagues, will merge this coming season as part of the grand centennial founding anniversary celebration of the University of the Philippines.

An NCAA founding member which moved over to UAAP in 1938, said UP is coordinating with the BAP-Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas for the NCAA-UAAP merger even if it will just be for 2008 when the state university celebrates a historical event.

The NCAA was founded in 1924 on the initiative of Dr. Regino R. Ylanan, a UP physical education professor. The original members were UP, Ateneo de Manila, La Salle, Institute of Accounts (FEU), NU, San Beda, UST and University of Manila.

UP won the UAAP championship just once, in 1986, but had four titles in the NCAA, winning the first three championships (1924-26) and reigning supreme the last time during the 1930-31 season. It captured double-championships (seniors-juniors champs) in 1925 and 1926.

With the full backing of SBP president Manny V. Pangilinan, executive director Patrick Gregorio is now working on the concept for formal presentation to the respective boards of the UAAP and the NCAA early next year.

Gregorio said he had informal talks with Ateneo’s Junjun Capistrano, La Salle’s Bro. Bernie Oca, Mapua’s Rey Vea, FEU’s Anton Montinola and JRU’s Paul Supan. The SBP top official is making the rounds of the NCAA and UAAP member schools with the blessing of UP president Emerlinda Roman, chancellor Gerry Cao and College of Human Kinetics dean Herc Callanta.

“In principle, all the UAAP and NCAA officials I have talked to have given their approval for me to pursue the project,” said Gregorio.

“One question begging for answer is what would the schools benefit from this. What I’m saying is that there would be divisional championships to be disputed by both leagues. But this time, there would be grand overall championship,” Gregorio explained.

“The grand champion could well be our representative in the next World University Games. The grand league could also be a good source of income which member schools could use to really develop their respective sports programs.”

Personally, Gregorio said he wants the project to push through, being a UP alumnus and SBP official.

“I think this is something we should pursue. This would be a legacy for all of us,” said Gregorio.

“The UP people think this is a good program for them to spearhead as part of the UP centennial celebration. For Mr. MVP, this is part of his game plan to rationalize school calendar, make games more exciting and elevate the level of collegiate basketball in the country,” Gregorio added.

Another UP top official Tezza Jazmines and another UP alumnus Rickie Santos, the PBA operations chief, are helping out Gregorio conceptualize the program. Santos has been asked to do the tournament format.

Incidentally, Vea, the incoming NCAA president, is former dean of the UP College of Engineering.

“I have talked to coach Joe Lipa and Mr. Rey Gamboa (of the Champions League). They told me they’ve tried to do it before but it’s hard. I said ‘pana-panahon iyan.’ There’s a major event (for UP), we might be able to convince the schools to join together,” said Gregorio.

“Kapag sila (the other member schools) may historical event din, let’s do it all over again. We’re excited. We believe anything is possible,” said Gregorio.

UAAP counts UP, Ateneo, La Salle, FEU, UST, UE, NU and Adamson as its members while the NCAA has in its fold Mapua, Letran, San Sebastian, San Beda, JRU, St. Benilde, Perpetual Help and PCU.

La Salle and Ateneo started their bitter rivalry in the NCAA. Ateneo also had its rivalry with San Beda in the NCAA.

* *
Copyright © 2007. Philstar. All Rights ReservedHome | About Us | Contact Us

gameface_one
12-27-2007, 10:45 AM
^^^Mod, pls move this to the General Discussions Forum. Thanks.

pablohoney
12-27-2007, 11:27 AM
Good news indeed, not just for players but also for fans...
Baka umabot nang 2nd sem ang basketball games....
Teka, basketball games lang ba ng Seniors? Or lahat na nang games, like volleyball sa men's, women's juniors?? ???


VIVA SANTO TOMAS

bluewing
12-27-2007, 11:46 AM
sana the usual double round robin sa respective division at isang ikot naman para sa cross-division. anything more than that would be too taxing for the fans AND the players.

Mateen Cleaves
12-27-2007, 12:07 PM
I'm all for a true national collegiate championship if this is what the idea is. Pero, ang tanong ko lang, trabaho pa ba ng SBP-BAP ito?

The SBP-BAP should have more important things to attend to than to come up with gimmicks that the UAAP, NCAA or any other member league can very well do on their own -- if they cared to do so. Ayusin muna yung national programs. we haven't won anything yet, in case anybody hasn't noticed. (No, the SEA Games medal doesn't mean squat in my book). First, make sure that the SBP-BAP programs are viable and sustainable, and that there is indeed a sound strategy behind what they're doing. Kung malinaw na, then the leagues can come up with their respective programs for supporting that national strategy.

Even for this proposal, Gregorio hasn't said anything to suggest how this is related to the vision of winning an Asiad gold or an Olympic berth. Baka malabo na lang talaga ang mga mata ko, pero puro UP Centennial lang ang nababasa ko. And, given the chaos that is UP's current basketball program, I don't even know if that's a good thing. :(

Schortsanitis
12-27-2007, 12:11 PM
* I think a TRUE, NATIONAL COLLEGIATE TOURNAMENT would be a big boost to Philippine basketball, & this could be the first step towards achieving that goal. A true, national collegiate tournament would serve to improve competition among the collegiate squads by allowing the provincial & other teams to be exposed to the best collegiate basketball competition that the country can offer..

* A possible tournament format could be:
- Single round robin for each of the NCAA & UAAP Divisions;
- Crossover single round robin between the NCAA & UAAP Divisions;
- Final Four for each of the NCAA & UAAP Divisions, twice to beat for the top 2 teams;
- Division Championships (best of 3)
- Top 2 teams from each division become the Final Four for the overall championships; Sudden death, or best of 3
- Winners vie for the overall title, best of 3, or best of 5.

batangueño
12-27-2007, 12:22 PM
Will it be possible to merge two groups with contrasting egos into just one body? I don't think so. With all due respect to my alma mater, UP, one has to understand the history of the two collegiate leagues to know the reason why it would be a "suntok sa buwan" effort to merge the UAAP and the NCAA into just one body. :-\

Also, the mere fact that it was Pato Gregorio, a member of the family that caused the troubles in UP's basketball program nowadays, who suggested the idea already makes me doubt everything (I am actually having this wild conspiracy theory that Pato is trying to divert people's attention from the problems in the Maroons basketball program caused by his father, Martin, through this wild idea of his). ;D

lekiboy
12-27-2007, 02:22 PM
Will it be possible to merge two groups with contrasting egos into just one body? I don't think so. With all due respect to my alma mater, UP, one has to understand the history of the two collegiate leagues to know the reason why it would be a "suntok sa buwan" effort to merge the UAAP and the NCAA into just one body. :-\

Also, the mere fact that it was Pato Gregorio, a member of the family that caused the troubles in UP's basketball program nowadays, who suggested the idea already makes me doubt everything (I am actually having this wild conspiracy theory that Pato is trying to divert people's attention from the problems in the Maroons basketball program caused by his father, Martin, through this wild idea of his). ;D


tsong,
holiday season na...pagbigyan mo na sila....

atenean_blooded
12-27-2007, 03:17 PM
What's the incentive for the UAAP to assent to such a merger?

Remember, most members of the UAAP abandoned the NCAA for one reason or another. The Ateneo and DLSU left because of violence and hooliganism. UP, UST, and FEU left because of commercialization.

The UAAP is, at least in my opinion, and with all due respect to fans of the NCAA, the most popular, if not the best collegiate league in the country (NABRO and stupid rules notwithstanding). What's the incentive for the UAAP, aside from more games?

There are already existing leagues such as the CCL that we can develop instead.

Schortsanitis
12-27-2007, 03:51 PM
One incentive for the UAAP, is to actually prove once & for all, thru actual competitions, that it is, truly, the best collegiate league in the country, instead of just putting it in theory.

easter
12-27-2007, 04:05 PM
Baka malabo na lang talaga ang mga mata ko, pero puro UP Centennial lang ang nababasa ko. And, given the chaos that is UP's current basketball program, I don't even know if that's a good thing. :(


I am not from UP but given that the coming year is a big one for them and their basketball program in disarray, just for the sake of UP... this is not the right time for such a humongous plan. ???

Actually this is an exciting prospect but this is a great disservice to the UP people who are now struggling just to put out a team out there. :-\

And again, what is the point of the SBP meddling into this and does this help us get one step closer in improving our standings in Asian Basketball?

Schortsanitis
12-27-2007, 04:27 PM
As host for next season, this is the perfect time for UP to spearhead something like this. Granting that UP's basketball program is in some form of a bind, you have to go out & credit the people behind UP's basketball program from not rolling over giving up, going out trying to do something productive instead.

As for the SBP-BAP, its obvious that their involvement is needed to spearhead the union of the UAAP & the NCAA. I don't think the UAAP or NCAA officials themselves could've done it on their own had been left to their own devices.

lekiboy
12-27-2007, 04:54 PM
As host for next season, this is the perfect time for UP to spearhead something like this.* Granting that UP's basketball program is in some form of a bind, you have to go out & credit the people behind UP's basketball program from not rolling over giving up, going out trying to do something productive instead.*

As for the SBP-BAP, its obvious that their involvement is needed to spearhead the union of the UAAP & the NCAA.* I don't think the UAAP or NCAA officials themselves could've done it on their own had been left to their own devices.


What's the use anyway of having 2 major collegiate leagues in the Phils? wala lang? trip lang? :)

michaelangelo_kid
12-27-2007, 05:46 PM
I am quite sure that a lot of supporters from the UAAP schools will oppose this idea. It's true, there is no incentive at all for them, and in fact, the entry of NCAA teams will greatly reduce their chances of winning the crown. DLSU, to its credit, is confident about its chances, with or without the NCAA teams. Now, that's what you call confidence. ;)

bongkers
12-27-2007, 06:02 PM
I honestly don't see the point in merging the two leagues when there are already attempts (albeit not exactly 100% successful) in merging all leagues through the champion's league. If people are really serious about coming up with an undisputed champion then they should all just put serious effort in improving the exisitng champion's league rather than waste time in a UAAP-NCAA merger.

Semenelin
12-27-2007, 06:42 PM
kung magmerge man, sana kasama UM para lahat ng founding members ng parehas NCAA at UAAP ksama. Pending pa PCU di ba? If UM joins just for this year, 16 teams.

divide the teams into 4 divisions, single round to non-division team then double sa ka-division. top 2 teams per division pasok sa elite eight knockout hangang may champion.

Schortsanitis
12-27-2007, 09:43 PM
The Collegiate Champions League (CCL), will never be a true, national collegiate tournament of champions, as long as it remains to be an INVITATIONAL league, where teams can just refuse the invitation if they want to.

A merged UAAP-NCAA league, on the other hand, will ensure that all the teams will play, whether like to or not.

Dark Knight
12-27-2007, 10:06 PM
San Beda vs Ateneo

Letran vs La Salle

Tempting but i disagree with this plan. Not now at least. The UAAP and NCAA encountered internal problems every season. Joining the 2 leagues will create new problems as well.

Like the league rules. Both have different rules i suppose so if they are going to merge, they have to create entirely new rules that will cater to both leagues.

How about the commissioners, will those coming from NC and UA alternate leadership every year? Like this coming season, the commish will come from UA and the next season will come from NC?

gameface_one
12-28-2007, 08:29 AM
UAAP-NC merger gets mixed reaction


By NELSON BELTRAN
The Philippine Star

To many, merging the UAAP and the NCAA is easier said than done.

Practically all cage officials like the idea but they doubt whether this can be done, seeing too many complications that need to be resolved.

"This may be good for college basketball but a lot of work has to be done to merge the two leagues. Scheduling of games, duration of tournament, rules of both leagues are a few of the areas of concern," said Ateneo official Ricky Palou.

"I’m for it. But how do you put together two leagues with different sets of rules. Merging the two leagues would entail a lot of hard work. Maraming egos na dapat imasahe," said San Beda coach Frankie Lim.

University of the Philippines, in coordination with the BAP-Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas, is spearheading move to merge the two leagues at least for next year during the grand centennial celebration of the state university.

SBP executive director Patrick Gregorio, a UP alumnus, said he’s now preparing the proposed concept for presentation to the separate boards of the UAAP and the NCAA early next year.

"This will raise the level of amateur basketball. I personally like the idea," said Bro. Bernie Oca, La Salle’s representative to the UAAP board.

"It’s been brought up to me by Pato (Patrick Gregorio) and it sounds big and exciting. We will wait for the formal proposal," said outgoing NCAA management committee chairman Paul Supan.

Lim said it could be a perfect venue to decide one true collegiate champion team. But the San Beda mentor doubts very much whether the UAAP and the NCAA can resolve issues in a short span of time.

"The biggest problem is how to make the two leagues agree when they have different policies. Player eligibility pa lang nagka-clash na ang rules nila," said Lim.

"If ever, it’s gonna be 16 teams and it’s gonna be a long season. Kapag natuloy, it’s huge. Mas mabigat ang paglalabanang bragging rights," Lim added.

The Champions Cup is one tourney designed to decide the real champion of collegiate champions in the land. However, some teams hardly take it seriously.

Recent UAAP title protagonists La Salle and UE, for one, backed out of the 2007 Champions Cup ruled by Ateneo.

UP wants to merge the two leagues next year as part of the school’s grand centennial founding anniversary celebration. The NCAA was founded in 1924 on the initiative of Dr. Regino R. Ylanan, a UP physical education professor. The original members were UP, Ateneo de Manila, La Salle, Institute of Accounts (FEU), NU, San Beda, UST and University of Manila.

UAAP now counts UP, Ateneo, La Salle, FEU, UST, UE, NU and Adamson as its members while the NCAA has in its fold Mapua, Letran, San Sebastian, San Beda, JRU, St. Benilde, Perpetual Help and PCU. With reports from Joey Villar

Schortsanitis
12-28-2007, 09:21 AM
How does that Tagalog saying go again?

"Kung gusto, maraming paraan. Pag hindi, maraming dahilan."

gameface_one
12-28-2007, 10:33 AM
Pumaren, Lim keen on UAAP-NCAA caging merger


By June Navarro
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 01:13:00 12/28/2007


MANILA, Philippines—San Beda’s Sam Ekwe has been lording it over at the paint without respect for the other team. And nobody could break the rhythm of La Salle’s JV Casio when his three-pointers find their target.

La Salle coach Franz Pumaren and San Beda mentor Frankie Lim both think a game featuring Casio’s shooting and the dominating inside presence of Ekwe could be a dream encounter in the 2008 UAAP-NCAA Centennial Cup.

Both champion coaches yesterday gave their nod to an ambitious plan that could unite all the schools from the UAAP and the NCAA under one mammoth collegiate league starting next year.

“It’s a welcome development for collegiate basketball,” said Pumaren, whose Green Archers captured this year’s UAAP men’s basketball varsity crown. “I think it will benefit both the UAAP and the NCAA.”

Lim, who has steered the Red Lions to a second straight NCAA seniors basketball title, shared the optimism and enthusiasm of Pumaren.

“That will be huge,” said Lim. “But if you ask me, it would be best if they put up one collegiate league and make it a yearly endeavor.”

Envisioned by BAP-Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas executive director Patrick Gregorio, the Centennial Cup is being planned to coincide with next year’s UAAP hosting by the University of the Philippines on the school’s 100th anniversary.

There’s one concern, though, that Pumaren and Lim want addressed. Both believe the format should benefit all the member schools.

Lim said the Centennial Cup organizers should rate the teams and put them in a division or bracket where they could flourish. Pumaren is batting for a format that would suit the calendar of both leagues.

“There are a lot of ways to skin the cat,” said Lim. “They could put up a bracket for strong teams or a Division II for weaker teams.”

Pumaren said: “They should sit down and create a format that would appeal to both institutions. But generally, it (the merger) is a very good idea.”

Gregorio will present a concept paper on the proposed UAAP-NCAA merger early next month to UP president Emerlinda Roman, UP chancellor Sergio Cao and NCAA host Mapua, through its president Rey Vea.

After getting the nod of the UAAP board and NCAA management committee, Gregorio said an ad hoc committee, whose chief task is to oversee the affairs and interests of the UAAP-NCAA merger, will be formed.

atenean_blooded
12-29-2007, 06:13 AM
The Collegiate Champions League (CCL), will never be a true, national collegiate tournament of champions, as long as it remains to be an INVITATIONAL league, where teams can just refuse the invitation if they want to.

A merged UAAP-NCAA league, on the other hand, will ensure that all the teams will play, whether like to or not.


If teams don't want to play, they won't play in a merged league either. It's that simple.



And nobody's still given any answer as to what the incentive is for the UAAP.




I personally think the CCL is too young to be dismissed outright. The format appears to be a viable format. What the different leagues can do is to propose not a merged league, but a tournament akin to the US NCAA's March Madness, where the best teams from the different leagues participate. This allows the leagues such as the UAAP and NCAA to retain most of their autonomy. This separate tournament, however, can, unlike the CCL, be run BY the UAAP/NCAA/SBP-BAP.






Re the Nelson Beltran article in the Star, is UP already SPEARHEADING the merger, as it says? Or has the proposal yet to be made to UP? The Inquirer and Star articles contradict each other on that point.

gameface_one
12-29-2007, 09:32 AM
Thoughts on merger
THE GAME OF MY LIFE By Bill Velasco
Saturday, December 29, 2007
Philstar.com


Just when we were finishing up our lists of major stories for 2008, another one just lands on the sports pages. The suggested merger of the NCAA and UAAP splashed onto the dailies as an idea whose time may have come.

However, there are still things that have to be thought through before this vision can become a reality. First of all, how will the two institutions in question view the proposal? Each has its own unique identity.

On one hand, the NCAA can say it has a richer history. On the other, the UAAP can boast higher ratings. The NCAA can counter that the most famous schools in the UAAP came from its fold. The UAAP can concur but add that the new breed of players came to fame in the UAAP.

Also, how will the unification be implemented? In an interview with this writer on the ABS-CBN News Channel program Hardball the other night, BAP-Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas executive director Patrick Gregorio admitted that there was nothing firm in place, but he expressed confidence that the product would be a “blockbuster” in terms of marketing.

The first thing to be done is to put together a committee that will study the possibility of a merger, and what possible formats. The question is whether or not the two leagues are already merged from the outset, or are considered two “divisions” of a bigger league, or compete against each other in a unified tournament that is totally different.

The first option might not be feasible within the next six months, since a third player is involved. The UAAP and NCAA each have a television contract with ABS-CBN that each is bound to honor, and initial sales efforts and airtime schedules have already been put in place. The network will undoubtedly have a say in any plans concerning the two leagues.

The second possibility will have less serious repercussions, since the two leagues can play together after their respective leagues. But I doubt if they would want to be considered mere divisions of a “higher” league. That may impact their sponsorship agreements, since they will no longer be the ultimate prize. Perhaps a compromise tournament featuring the Final Four teams of each league would work.

At any rate, 2008 will not be boring.

* * *

Who will be the breakout stars of 2008 in Philippine sports? This is a question this writer has been asked repeatedly these past few weeks.

My first answer will be obvious. Manny Pacquiao is now finally taking the giant leap, risking his current status as media hero and finally going into the ring for a world title. He has the opportunity to win the World Boxing Council super featherweight title from Juan Manual Marquez. Assuming he is successful, he may also get a shot at WBC lighweight champion David Diaz and win two titles in one year, a rare enough occurrence in itself. If he isn’t recognized as the best pound-for-pound boxer in the world after that, I don’t know what he’d need to do to earn it.

Second on my list is Nonito Donaire. The IBF and IBO flyweight champion has vowed to unify the title in his weight class, no matter where he has to go to do it. Donaire came out of nowhere to demolish the previously undefeated Vic Darchinyan. He also followed this up with his first title defense against Luis Maldonado. Furthermore, the General Santos native is fiercely proud to be Filipino. He is motivated and wants to do his country proud.

Third on my list is Japeth Aguilar. The 6’10” small forward of the Western Kentucky University Hilltoppers is set for a breakout season in 2008. As of now, Aguilar is the first man off the bench and is their top defensive player. He is used to double-team and start the team’s fastbreaks. His averages of four points and four rebounds doesn’t show the impact he has on the game. The Hilltoppers have five graduating players, and the team is built around 6’5” All-American guard and ballhog Courtney Lee. This writer personally witnessed how the selfishness of Lee proved

detrimental to Aguilar on a few plays in a meaningless pre-season game. Lee and Aguilar were on a two-on-one fastbreak, and Aguilar was slightly ahead. Lee, who already had four dunks at that point, could have given the ball up and allowed Aguilar what would have been his first basket of the game. But no, he took the ball all the way himself. Next year, Aguilar will be the main man at WKU.

Fourth will be the Philippine boxing team to the Beijing Olympics.

With Harry Tañamor already qualified, Joan Tipon vowing a spectacular comeback, and two more qualifiers next year, we just might win our first Olympic gold medal after years of futility. The Philippine bowling team is also poised for a comeback after the questionable decisions that plagued the team that went to the Southeast Asian Games. The reorganization should breathe new life into the proud team.

Who do you think will make it big in 2008?

gameface_one
12-29-2007, 09:40 AM
SBP sees no problems in UAAP, NCAA merger



By WAYLON GALVEZ
mb.com.ph

FORMAT AND eligibility issues should not be a concern if the NCAA and the UAAP decide to play together under one tournament next year.


Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas (SBP) Executive Director Patrick Gregorio said yesterday that this early, officials from both leagues are suggesting different formats to be used if and when the plans push through.

According to Gregorio, one official suggested to have the top four teams of the NCAA and the UAAP advancing to the Round of Eight quarterfinals and play in a crossover knockout system.

The remaining two teams will clash in a best-of-three Finals for the coveted championship.

"I guess format will not be a concern. There are a lot of ways," Gregorio told the Bulletin, adding that the decision will come from the NCAA and UAAP.

University of the Philippines, host of next season’s UAAP, through the SBP, initiated the possibility of having the two collegiate leagues play under one tournament next season in time for the school’s centennial anniversary.

Gregorio said that by January next year, SBP President Manny V. Pangilinan will invite the UAAP board and the NCAA Policy Board and Management Committee to a meeting to formally discuss the proposals.

"This is actually part of Mr. Pangilinan’s goal when he accepted to be the SBP chief. This is what he wants, to have one collegiate tournament," he said.

The SBP, Gregorio said, is willing to help in raising funds to help develop the sports programs of the schools, but he clarified that it’s the NCAA and UAAP that will run the program.

To start with, the SBP will propose for an Ad Hoc Committee to be formed by the representative of schools coming from the two leagues.

"This will be their show," Gregorio said.

He added that other issues including eligibility will be discussed by the Ad Hoc Committee, "because they’re more knowledgeable, the NCAA and UAAP officials, when it comes to those matters."

The possibility of a playing in one tournament got mixed reactions from various officials and coaches of the NCAA and the UAAP.

Letran mentor Louie Alas sees no problem if the officials of both leagues will give way to each other in forming the guidelines.

"In the long run the one that will benefit here is the national team. In the US NCAA they also have different conferences, but they have one policy that applies to all these conferences," Alas said.

Schortsanitis
12-29-2007, 11:18 AM
If teams don't want to play, they won't play in a merged league either. It's that simple.

And nobody's still given any answer as to what the incentive is for the UAAP.

I personally think the CCL is too young to be dismissed outright. The format appears to be a viable format. What the different leagues can do is to propose not a merged league, but a tournament akin to the US NCAA's March Madness, where the best teams from the different leagues participate. This allows the leagues such as the UAAP and NCAA to retain most of their autonomy. This separate tournament, however, can, unlike the CCL, be run BY the UAAP/NCAA/SBP-BAP.

Re the Nelson Beltran article in the Star, is UP already SPEARHEADING the merger, as it says? Or has the proposal yet to be made to UP? The Inquirer and Star articles contradict each other on that point.


No team in the NCAA or UAAP tournaments can just "refuse to play" if they don't want to. If they do so, they risk penalties from those tournaments.

No such rule exists w/ the CCL. Any team can just refuse to play in it because it is an invitational league.

One incentive for the UAAP, is that it can prove out there on the court that it is, indeed, the best college teams in the country, instead of making assumptions.

Besides, why does it have to be "what's in store" for the UAAP? That is a very selfish thing to keep asking. How about, what's in store for the country?

What I do agree, is for SEPARATE DIVISION CHAMPIONSHIPS, aside from just the overall championship, as what Gregorio outlined in his latest press release.

atenean_blooded
12-29-2007, 11:32 AM
No team in the NCAA or UAAP tournaments can just "refuse to play" if they don't want to.* If they do so, they risk penalties from those tournaments.*

No such rule exists w/ the CCL.* Any team can just refuse to play in it because it is an invitational league.

A team can refuse to play in the CCL at the risk of one penalty: the obvious disqualification from contention.

And in the UAAP and the NCAA, at its most basic, any team that refuses to play can still refuse to play even in the face of penalties. The leagues cannot force the teams to play (that's illegal), with the teams assuming obvious responsibilities.



One incentive for the UAAP, is that it can prove out there on the court that it is, indeed, the best college teams in the country, instead of making assumptions.*

How is this supposed to be an incentive for the UAAP?


Besides, why does it have to be "what's in store" for the UAAP?* That is a very selfish thing to keep asking.* How about, what's in store for the country?

6 out of 8 UAAP members were teams which abandoned the NCAA for various reasons. The Ateneo and La Salle left the NCAA due to hooliganism and violence. UP, UST, and NU left the NCAA due to commercialism. FEU left the NCAA shortly after those three left.

And these were 6 out of the 8 original, founding members of the NCAA we're talking about.


What's in store with the country? We're not even assured that a merged league will work, and that the level of competition will increase, or that amateur basketball for the country will benefit (especially since the schools involved are all in Metro Manila).




What I do agree, is for SEPARATE DIVISION CHAMPIONSHIPS, aside from just the overall championship, as what Gregorio outlined in his latest press release.*



Okay, but how do we define the divisions? How do you properly rank these teams granted that the level of competition in the two leagues seems to be different? And how is this more efficient than allowing the UAAP and NCAA tournaments to progress on their own, while the two leagues jointly put together an overall championship which they can require their member schools to join?

bluewing
12-29-2007, 07:04 PM
pera-pera lang yan.

gregorio eh.

Schortsanitis
12-29-2007, 10:36 PM
No such rule exists w/ the CCL.* Any team can just refuse to play in it because it is an invitational league.

There is no such rule in the CCL, because it is an Invitational league. That's why teams can simply refuse to participate in it, without fear of sanction.

In the NCAA or UAAP, on the other hand, a team simply cannot refuse to play if they don't want to, without fear of sanctions.



How is this supposed to be an incentive for the UAAP?

Well, I noticed how UAAP fans here keep insisting that they are the "best" collegiate league in the country, without necessarily proving it out there on the court. Instead of coming up w/ such proclamations, they should go out & prove it out there in actual competitions instead of just talking about it.



What's in store with the country? We're not even assured that a merged league will work, and that the level of competition will increase, or that amateur basketball for the country will benefit (especially since the schools involved are all in Metro Manila).

Nobody is making assurances that the league will work. But nobody will find out, if nobody will try it.



Okay, but how do we define the divisions? How do you properly rank these teams granted that the level of competition in the two leagues seems to be different? And how is this more efficient than allowing the UAAP and NCAA tournaments to progress on their own, while the two leagues jointly put together an overall championship which they can require their member schools to join?


The divisions can be defined along the current lines between the NCAA & UAAP. Each NCAA / UAAP division can come up w/ their champions, w/ the Final Four, or maybe the champions of each division battling for the overall championship.

atenean_blooded
12-30-2007, 02:01 AM
There is no such rule in the CCL, because it is an Invitational league.* That's why teams can simply refuse to participate in it, without fear of sanction.

In the NCAA or UAAP, on the other hand, a team simply cannot refuse to play if they don't want to, without fear of sanctions.*



Yes, which is still consistent with what I said: Teams can refuse to play.





Well, I noticed how UAAP fans here keep insisting that they are the "best" collegiate league in the country, without necessarily proving it out there on the court.* Instead of coming up w/ such proclamations, they should go out & prove it out there in actual competitions instead of just talking about it.*

Again, how is this an incentive for the UAAP?


Nobody is making assurances that the league will work.* But nobody will find out, if nobody will try it.

This is illogical.

There's probably a reason that's more compelling.



The divisions can be defined along the current lines between the NCAA & UAAP.* Each NCAA / UAAP division can come up w/ their champions, w/ the Final Four, or maybe the champions of each division battling for the overall championship.

Okay. But is an entirely new league necessary for this? Because it seems that this sort of set-up is basically just a matter of scheduling games after the regular seasons of both leagues, arranged by both leagues. In short, it's nothing really different from the CCL or the other "off-season" tournaments, except that this time it's the leagues that are going to be arranging them.

A-boy97
12-30-2007, 02:23 AM
Guys easy lang! In general, the idea is great. A basketball crazy country like us will finally find out which school is really king of the hard court... or at least King of Luzon basketball! ;D

Old and new alumni of each school will enjoy and be familiarize with rivalries long forgotten. We have to admit, and I challenge anyone who says otherwise, schools send in their best teams in the UAAP and NCAA tournaments. CCL is more of a preparation league or just to make sure players stay competitive. It may have some potential in the future but at the end of the day, this is the quickest solution to merging the two leagues.

As to the move of most school from the NCAA to the UAAP, pards, 2007 na, ilang araw 2008 na. The reasons before are not applicable anymore. The hooliganism in the NCAA is not as bad as it was before. Actually, mga la salle schools lang talaga ang epal and magugulo. Mga suntok sabay takbo and pagbebenta ng laro, isang institusyon lang yan!

If the two leagues can fix eligibility issues, the UAAP and NCAA can fix their own internal mess, then it really will be a blockbuster.

All we need is to open our minds, be selfless, and think of the big picture.

Besides, even if the two leagues merge, there will still be the Ateneo-la salle game! ;D

Peace, happy new year!

One Big Fight!

Schortsanitis
12-30-2007, 09:39 AM
Yes, which is still consistent with what I said: Teams can refuse to play.

A team in the UAAP or NCAA CAN refuse to play during an NCAA or UAAP tournament, if they are willing to shoulder the sanctions.* But w/ the sanctions in place, the price of doing so is such that no team can readily do it whenever they are like.* They are bound to play, or face sanctions.* Its as simple as that.



Again, how is this an incentive for the UAAP?

One incentive is getting a LEGITIMATE claim on being the best collegiate in the country, instead of theorizing about it.* That's a possible incentive.


This is illogical.

No its not.* Its logical, to try things out, even if there no assurances that things will work out properly.



There's probably a reason that's more compelling.


Maybe you can provide one.



Okay. But is an entirely new league necessary for this? Because it seems that this sort of set-up is basically just a matter of scheduling games after the regular seasons of both leagues, arranged by both leagues. In short, it's nothing really different from the CCL or the other "off-season" tournaments, except that this time it's the leagues that are going to be arranging them.

Its important that a group spearheads the merger of the 2 leagues.* Both the UAAP or NCAA boards could've come up on their own for a unified league, but in this case, that didn't happen.* The idea, & the motivation, came from somebody else.

It's hard to think of any other efficient way to do the merger, I feel that what Gregorio is doing is ideal at the moment.

lekiboy
12-30-2007, 09:53 AM
If the two leagues can fix eligibility issues, the UAAP and NCAA can fix their own internal mess, then it really will be a blockbuster.

All we need is to open our minds, be selfless, and think of the big picture.



there you go - dale mo batang bata...... ;D

bluestorck
12-30-2007, 11:08 AM
if plans push through im looking forward sa ateneo vs san beda ..... :)

abcdef
12-30-2007, 02:46 PM
Imagine less High School players transferring from one school to another for they would get the same exposure anyway?

They could even look good on their not so good seniors team for they could be a star and dont need to transfer to other schools that gives them limited time.
But perks and allowance are different issues.

atenean_blooded
12-31-2007, 02:50 AM
A team in the UAAP or NCAA CAN refuse to play during an NCAA or UAAP tournament, if they are willing to shoulder the sanctions.* But w/ the sanctions in place, the price of doing so is such that no team can readily do it whenever they are like.* They are bound to play, or face sanctions.* Its as simple as that.

Which is what I said several posts ago.


One incentive is getting a LEGITIMATE claim on being the best collegiate in the country, instead of theorizing about it.* That's a possible incentive.

A possible incentive? What good is that?


No its not.* Its logical, to try things out, even if there no assurances that things will work out properly.

It is. I said, we're not sure it's going to work.

You said, "but nobody will find out, if nobody will try it." But that's beside the point, and is illogical.

The point has been whether or not it should even BE tried, and what compelling reasons there might be, for example, for the UAAP to even agree to such a set-up.


Maybe you can provide one.

You tell me. I've already been asking about incentives.



Its important that a group spearheads the merger of the 2 leagues.* Both the UAAP or NCAA boards could've come up on their own for a unified league, but in this case, that didn't happen.* The idea, & the motivation, came from somebody else.

This does not answer my question.



It's hard to think of any other efficient way to do the merger, I feel that what Gregorio is doing is ideal at the moment.


How is it ideal?

gameface_one
12-31-2007, 09:47 AM
‘One league best for RP sports’


By NELSON BELTRAN and JOEY VILLAR
The Philippine Star

Philippine Amateur Swimming Association president Mark Joseph said they’re supporting the move to merge the UAAP and the NCAA, believing unification will raise the standard of Philippine sports.

Joseph, who is also deputy secretary general of the Philippine Olympic Committee, is also batting for a single school sports federation that would work hand in hand with the country’s different national sports associations.

"Having separate high school, college and university leagues simply fosters mediocrity as recruitment is based less on merit but rather on alumni connections and handled by coaches without fixed tenures," said Joseph.

"If we look at the top sporting countries of the world Monday, almost all have unified school sports federations that work as partners with their respective national Olympic committees," Joseph added. "Sports and education can never be separated. Athletes need the scholarships, and schools need the addition of competitiveness and victory to build stronger communities."

Joseph mentioned the Philippines’ poor showing in the recent World University Games in Bangkok.

"The top swimmers in the country ended up close to last place although as club-based age-groupers, they were once among the best in Southeast Asia," said the swimming top honcho, observing the lack of a clear path for elite athlete development (19 years old and above) outside of basketball.

"With the success of the Philippine Olympic Festival, the way to the Youth Olympic Games is now clear but we need an avenue where the top talents identified there can be recruited, nurtured, educated and trained for even higher levels of aspiration," he added.

Joseph particularly pointed to judo, fencing, taekwondo, shooting, football, archery and gymnastics as others in support of a unified national school league.

He said consultations have been made to discuss this, saying the single national school federation could be the one which would select representatives for international school-based championships such as the Universiade, the Asean Secondary School Championships, the Pacific School Games and the Asian School Championships.

"A unified national school federation is the only chance for some national sports associations to ever have their sports played at the secondary and collegiate level," said Joseph.

"Tradition is important and we respect the NCAA and the UAAP. I’m a product of both systems as a former swimmer. But the call of international competitiveness is greater," Joseph added.

Meanwhile, a plan to hold a pre-season tournament this coming year featuring all the 16 teams from both the UAAP and NCAA is being hatched while the ambitious merger is being ironed out.

UAAP board member Anton Montinola of Far Eastern U said the league has been talking with BAP-SBP executive director Patrick Gregorio about holding the pre-season tournament, which they hope should jumpstart the eventual merger.

"Pato (Gregorio) has another option. We do a pre-season league where all 16 teams play a knockout format tournament with the UAAP No. 1 facing the NCAA No. 8 and the NCAA No. 1 taking on the UAAP No. 8, etc.," said Montinola.

"The same formula will be used in the second round, then the Final Four and then the championship. So the champion team plays only a maximum of four games," he added.

After the tournament tentatively set in June, the two leagues could go back to their own leagues to play in their own tournaments that usually start late June for the NCAA and early July for the UAAP.

"This is a good idea. Somehow, it should answer the raging debate on who’s the best in the country and what’s the best league in the land," said St. Benilde NCAA board representative Henry Atayde.

Dark Knight
12-31-2007, 10:37 AM
If we want to determine the best among the collegiate teams, might as well include other leagues as well.

Stardust
12-31-2007, 11:50 AM
the mulled merger for next year is indeed a welcome treat to collegiate basketball aficionados. it can be the true measure to determine who is the king of the hardcourt in 2008 amongst the top collegiate basketball programs in luzon at least as one of the brother poster said.

as to what's the incentive for uaap to agree to the merger, only concerned uaap member schools can answer or perceive it best. besides, its a up alum who brokered the idea and its been insinuated here already that there are negative motives behind the merger. so i its up to pato to make his case when he presents to the boards of the nc and uaap. if proving on the hardcourt the team's worth with true intense competition is not incentive enough then there is really nothing to gain from the merger. i believe prize-money or additional revenues is of no motivation also.

if the uaap posters here don't see any benefit for them, i believe its true also for us in the ncaa. i'm sure dlsu would want to defend her crown vs uaap teams. and uaap teams, i.e. adm and ue, would want to win the championship over a league rival -- presumably dls. i surmiss uaap posters would cherish more a championship victory over dls than ncaa schools.

as for me, it would be a thrill to see sbc face-off again with adm. but i rather we defend our crown and win the 3rd over ncaa rivals. the bigger picture for us now is to equal and hopefully to surpass the fete of ssc, i.e. 5 or 6 consecutive championships.

happy new year bros. its still an idea -- the merger so let's enjoy the discussion and banter.

A-boy97
12-31-2007, 12:42 PM
as for me, it would be a thrill to see sbc face-off again with adm.

I'm just curious which side Boss MVP will sit if the merger pushes through. ??? ;D

Happy New Year to everyone! Peace!

One Big Fight!!

LION
12-31-2007, 02:39 PM
^MVP will be seating in the middle but not exactly in the middle. He'll be seating in the Ateneo's side nearest the middle. But the compromise is that he'll be wearing red. ;D

Schortsanitis
12-31-2007, 03:21 PM
Which is what I said several posts ago.

It seems you were implying a couple of posts ago, that



A possible incentive? What good is that?

It is an incentive. Besides, what kinds of incentives are UAAP schools looking for, then? Cash?


It is. I said, we're not sure it's going to work.

You said, "but nobody will find out, if nobody will try it." But that's beside the point, and is illogical.

The point has been whether or not it should even BE tried, and what compelling reasons there might be, for example, for the UAAP to even agree to such a set-up.

No its not. Everyday situations shows you a lot of logical examples wherein you take certain steps even if you're not sure its going to work.

A lot of schools out there are have good recruitment programs, but that hasn't necessarily translated into success for them in their leagues. So does that mean they should do away w/ the recruitment programs anyway since it hasn't worked at all so far?



You tell me. I've already been asking about incentives.

No, you tell me. Maybe you have better ideas out there that the ones you are questioning. Besides, I've already told mine.



How is it ideal?

Why is it, that I feel like I'm talking to a Psychiatrist, w/ the way you have been fielding questions like this? Am I being offered a free Psychiatric session online?

Just wondering.

atenean_blooded
12-31-2007, 04:02 PM
It seems you were implying a couple of posts ago, that

I suggest you reread the past posts then. I actually said something along those lines.


It is an incentive.* Besides, what kinds of incentives are UAAP schools looking for, then?* Cash?

How is proving you're better an incentive?

Cash? What do YOU think?


No its not.

It's a logical fallacy called "petitio principii."



Everyday situations shows you a lot of logical examples wherein you take certain steps even if you're not sure its going to work.

A lot of schools out there are have good recruitment programs, but that hasn't necessarily translated into success for them in their leagues.* So does that mean they should do away w/ the recruitment programs anyway since it hasn't worked at all so far?

In your example, the program is in place, and it's a question of doing away with it or not. In this discussion, it's about whether or not we should put up a new league.



No, you tell me.* Maybe you have better ideas out there that the ones you are questioning.* Besides, I've already told mine.

So how are they incentives?



Why is it, that I feel like I'm talking to a Psychiatrist, w/ the way you have been fielding questions like this?* Am I being offered a free Psychiatric session online?*

Just wondering.


I don't think this matters.

batangueño
12-31-2007, 06:57 PM
Pato keeps on dragging UP's name in this mess when in fact the crazy idea of merging the UAAP and the NCAA is solely his. Gregoriong Gregorio nga! ::)

Schortsanitis
12-31-2007, 07:40 PM
In your example, the program is in place, and it's a question of doing away with it or not. In this discussion, it's about whether or not we should put up a new league.

The principle is the same, but am sure you would insist otherwise. There is no assurance that the program will succeed, so why go w/ it, then? That is what you were insisting, right, that if something has no sure chance of succeeding, then it shouldn't be pursued. So what's the difference?



So how are they incentives?

I asked that you give me your ideas, & you go out asking me a question. Always insisting on attacking, rather than coming up w/ your own ideas & trying to defend them, huh?



I don't think this matters.


Oh, it does, especially when you think like you're talking to a bot.

Am I, now?

atenean_blooded
01-01-2008, 10:28 AM
The principle is the same, but am sure you would insist otherwise.* There is no assurance that the program will succeed, so why go w/ it, then?* That is what you were insisting, right, that if something has no sure chance of succeeding, then it shouldn't be pursued.* So what's the difference?

The difference is fundamental. One proceeds differently with regard to an existing program: Either he relieves himself of risk by discontinuing the program, or he can assume new risks by changing his program. In this case, one assumes risk since there is no program to speak of.


I asked that you give me your ideas, & you go out asking me a question.* Always insisting on attacking, rather than coming up w/ your own ideas & trying to defend them, huh?

Illogical. You still haven't answered why your ideas are supposed to be incentives.



Oh, it does, especially when you think like you're talking to a bot.*

Am I, now?


Why does it matter?

Stardust
01-01-2008, 11:49 AM
I'm just curious which side Boss MVP will sit if the merger pushes through. ??? ;D

Happy New Year to everyone! Peace!

One Big Fight!!


the obtuse points mvp seating in adm's side. but my gut feel of late will put him on sbc's. i feel that he is re-discovering or rather relating more to the line "may their fellowship never cease" of the alma mater hymn he was not able to sing in his mendiola days.
:)

atenean_blooded / Schortsanitis: happy new year mga bros. i'm sorry to interrupt your private discussion and to join in. i believe both your points are valid and your views are from opposite ends. thus, you may never find common ground or agreement in your exchange.

schort: you are like many of the posters here that see winning in the hardcourt with true intense competition is incentive enough to realize the merger. unfortunately, ab doesn't see it the way we see it and he is entirely right to perceive it that way. i recommend to let it.

ab: you're right too to view the merger offers no clear incentive for adm. but schort and others feel otherwise. i suggest you let it be too. you have made your case already.

guys, sorry but its still the season of giving so please give and take na kayo.

Schortsanitis
01-01-2008, 11:59 AM
The difference is fundamental. One proceeds differently with regard to an existing program: Either he relieves himself of risk by discontinuing the program, or he can assume new risks by changing his program. In this case, one assumes risk since there is no program to speak of.

Their is no difference. Fundamentally, they are the same. The bottomline is you're saying if there is no chance of success, then people shouldn't try it. It applies for everything, & no amount of hocus-pocus won't change that.



Illogical. You still haven't answered why your ideas are supposed to be incentives.

(Chuckle) Illogical? Lack of logic is answering a question w/ another question, just so people can be continue to be on the attack, instead of the defensive. Answer my question first, you can't answer a question w/ another question.



Why does it matter?


It matters when there are people out there who argue for the sake of arguing. In their minds, that is supposed to make them feel "superior".

In that regard, it affects the nature of the argument, because then, the person is not trying to be objective, but trying to achieve a personal agenda. That's why it matters.

paul_tamaraws
01-01-2008, 09:13 PM
if the UAAP-NCAA plan will push through these are the matches to watch out for:

1. Ateneo vs. San Beda
2. La Salle vs. CSJL

at eto sana ang gusto kong format if this will go according to plan:

1. The league is composed of 16 teams, 8 from UAAP and 8 from NCAA
2. Double Round Robin; 15 games per team para mas mahaba
3. may knockout/playoffs or quarterfinals
4. Semi-finals like the usual Final 4 in the UAAP and NCAA (no. 1 vs. no. 4, no. 3 vs. no. 4)
5. There will be a battle for 3rd place for the Semis losers
6. Lastly, Best of 3 finals to determine the best collegiate team

atenean_blooded
01-01-2008, 11:36 PM
Their is no difference.* Fundamentally, they are the same.* The bottomline is you're saying if there is no chance of success, then people shouldn't try it.* It applies for everything, & no amount of hocus-pocus won't change that.

They're fundamentally different, because one involves the change of risk already assumed, whereas the other involves the new assumption of risk.


(Chuckle)* Illogical?* Lack of logic is answering a question w/ another question, just so people can be continue to be on the attack, instead of the defensive.* Answer my question first, you can't answer a question w/ another question.

Still illogical. :)

The first question I asked still hasn't been answered: What's the incentive for the UAAP?*

Assuming for the sake of argument that you've actually come up with an answer, how is this answer an incentive for the UAAP?



It matters when there are people out there who argue for the sake of arguing.* In their minds, that is supposed to make them feel "superior".*

In that regard, it affects the nature of the argument, because then, the person is not trying to be objective, but trying to achieve a personal agenda.* That's why it matters.


This is illogical. :)

atenean_blooded
01-01-2008, 11:40 PM
atenean_blooded / Schortsanitis:* happy new year mga bros.* i'm sorry to interrupt your private discussion and to join in.* i believe both your points are valid and your views are from opposite ends.* thus, you may never find common ground or agreement in your exchange.

schort:* you are like many of the posters here that see winning in the hardcourt with true intense competition is incentive enough to realize the merger.* unfortunately, ab doesn't see it the way we see it and he is entirely right to perceive it that way.* i recommend to let it.

ab:* you're right too to view the merger offers no clear incentive for adm.* but schort and others feel otherwise.* i suggest you let it be too.* you have made your case already.

guys, sorry but its still the season of giving so please give and take na kayo.


All I've done is ask questions, and instead of getting straight answers, I've been responded to with personal attacks.

And since this is the season of giving, all I do is go back to the questions I've asked.

Still no answer.

atenean_blooded
01-02-2008, 12:20 AM
Pato keeps on dragging UP's name in this mess when in fact the crazy idea of merging the UAAP and the NCAA is solely his. Gregoriong Gregorio nga! ::)


Am I correct in assuming that UP is merely being tapped to help "sell" the idea to the UAAP, the same way the corresponding NCAA host is supposed to do? I suppose, after all, that it is up to the UAAP Board and the NCAA's equivalent body to agree to work toward a merger.

batangueño
01-02-2008, 01:16 AM
Am I correct in assuming that UP is merely being tapped to help "sell" the idea to the UAAP, the same way the corresponding NCAA host is supposed to do? I suppose, after all, that it is up to the UAAP Board and the NCAA's equivalent body to agree to work toward a merger.

Well, in my opinion, the idea is not really that of UP but solely that of Pato Gregorio. They keep on saying that it is UP's idea or that UP will help sell the idea to the UAAP when in fact this whole crazy idea of merging to contrasting collegiate leagues came solely from Pato. It is just incorrect for anyone to say that Pato's idea is UP's idea because Pato and other members of the Gregorio family are dragging UP's good name in this mess only to give some sort of clout or moral ascendancy to their crazy ideas and cover up their true intentions as to why they wanted a merged UAAP and NCAA (too bad MVP fell for the trap of the Gregorios).

I doubt if UP as a university will act on this idea of Pato unless, of course, his father Martin will again resort to scheming and Gregorio men Edwin Barber and Herky Callanta will force the issue to Chancellor Sergio Cao, President Emerlinda Roman and the UAAP board itself.

To all of us concerned about the welfare of college basketball in the country: stop the Gregorios before they ruin the sport. ::)

Schortsanitis
01-02-2008, 09:10 AM
They're fundamentally different, because one involves the change of risk already assumed, whereas the other involves the new assumption of risk.

No they're not.* The issue is about taking risk when there is no assurance of a favorable outcome.* In that regard, they are not different, they are the same.



The first question I asked still hasn't been answered: What's the incentive for the UAAP?*

Assuming for the sake of argument that you've actually come up with an answer, how is this answer an incentive for the UAAP?

To follow your line of thought:* What incentive are you looking for?* You keep shooting down answers that are being offered as "incentives", & yet cannot put forward an incentive you insist will be good for the UAAP.* This gives the impression, that you don't know what will be a good incentive for the UAAP, & is just content on shooting out what's out there.* Maybe some peopla are afraid to make a stand for something, & would rather be content on criticizing ideas.



This is illogical. :)

No, that's reality.

RockLobster
01-02-2008, 10:35 AM
Coach E's take on the issue: http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/01022008/sports06.html

gameface_one
01-02-2008, 11:16 AM
BAP-SBP pursues merger


By NELSON BELTRAN

The Philippine Star

The first order for the BAP-Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas this New Year is to work on a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with the UAAP and the NCAA as practically all member schools have welcomed the possible merger between the two leagues at least this coming season.

SBP executive director Patrick Gregorio said the federation, headed by businessman-sportsman Manny V. Pangilinan, is now preparing a letter for the separate boards of the two varsity leagues, recommending the formation of an ad hoc organizing committee to discuss concerns, issues and ideas for the unification.

"Everybody’s excited with the proposal and we really have to take advantage of it as we’re confident the plan will benefit the schools and the sport," said Gregorio.

"We’re happy other national sports associations see the potential of this project. We’re happy the swimming association sees this as a brilliant idea. Hopefully, the other stakeholders see it that way too," Gregorio added. "Mr. MVP is sincere in his effort to help. He sees it as a way to boost the sports programs of the schools and Philippine sports in general."

Pangilinan and Gregorio were to meet Tuesday afternoon to discuss the federation’s other plans and programs.

"It’s New Year’s Day and Mr. MVP is calling a meeting. It just shows his dedication in basketball," said Gregorio.

"We’ll pursue the (NCAA-UAAP merger) plan. We’ll do it step by step. The basic recommendation is let’s go for the big one. It’s not really a merger but let’s play together in 2008," added Gregorio.

The SBP, for one, is looking to strengthen the country’s varsity program this year in preparation for the World University Games in Belgrade next year.

Major concerns in the possible merger are the tournament format, rules and the two league’s contracts with TV coverer ABS-CBN.

Gregorio, however, is confident the ad hoc organizing committee can address these.

"This is not only an SBP-UP-Mapua affair. Anybody who wants to help formulate the program is welcome. The UAAP and the NCAA will still make the final decisions at yun TV coverage pwede rin naman sa ABS-CBN pa rin mapunta," said Gregorio.

As UAAP this coming school year, the University of the Philippines is spearheading the plan as part of its centennial founding anniversary. Mapua, meanwhile, is the host of the next NCAA season.

GHRanger
01-02-2008, 11:38 AM
Masyadong serioso na ito... Pagaanin naman natin ng kaunti.

MVP will wear something similar to the Philippine flag... baka makahiram siya kay Bata or Django. As to saan siya uupo... baka sa officials table as one of the main people in SBP. :D

Peace! :D

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

a70
01-02-2008, 12:21 PM
The merger of the UAAP and the NCAA will be a good thing for everyone concerned. Why have two leagues when we can actually have a unified league. No more banterings and bickerings of which league is better. The more the merrier! I am sure we can iron out these things. The only thing I am not sure about is the time frame of the merger. These things take time to plan...and maybe a 3 year time frame would suffice.

batangueño
01-02-2008, 12:31 PM
Here's Coach Eric Altamirano's two cents on the issue.


http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/01022008/sports06.html


Collegiate super league: Is it about time?
Ask Coach E
Eric Altamirano


Patrick “Pato” Gregorio is full of bright ideas.

I read somewhere that when he was being interviewed for the commissionership of the Philippine Basketball Association (PBA), the board members were very impressed with his marketing ideas that they offered him pointblank the league’s marketing post.

I remember he wanted to flaunt to the PBA the idea of a league where foreign players and teams can play and also at the same time attract advertisers of the same nationality.

This time, the BAP-Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas executive director has taken his act before the Universities Athletic Association of the Philippines (UAAP) and the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA).

He is selling to them the idea of a major collegiate league that will boost even more the interest on the two premier commercial leagues and consequently, rake in more revenue.

Isn’t it about time to consider the thought of merging the two collegiate leagues?

Besides, isn’t it true that the two league’s origins are also the same?

Before the UAAP came into being, its members namely like University of Santo Tomas and National U were members of the old NCAA, breaking free only to create the UAAP in 1946, as other teams like Ateneo and De La Salle followed suit in the 1970s and ’80s.

Despite the exit of its high-profile members, the NCAA has withstood the ravages of time with league pioneer San Beda still spearheading the oldest collegiate basketball organization in the country.

Each league, by the composition alone of its members, has created a persona separate and different from each other.

It will be quite a feat to think of how to merge these top leagues to form a tournament superpower akin to the NCAA Division One in the United States.

The reason for this is perhaps all in the interest of marketing and competition, not necessarily in that order.

Instead of funding two leagues, commercial sponsors can save money by funneling money to one big organization as the varsity population is more than doubling in size, counting the students, officials, alumni and basketball enthusiasts.

As to competition, the teams would be treated to basketball far beyond respective comfort zones. Imagine the benefits of having the bigger competition base with more teams.

I think Pato has this in mind when he presents the proposal to the UAAP and NCAA officials anytime soon.

I played under San Beda in the NCAA during high school and also for University of the Philippines in the UAAP so it would be exciting if this proposal would come to fruition.

There are just a few questions left on my mind.

Would the personalities of the two leagues jive in case of a merger? We know for a fact that the UAAP is the classier league between the two, while NCAA is perhaps better gifted when it comes to talent as it is a well-known fact that most of its high-school products are lured into top UAAP schools.

Second, how much money would the super league make that will compensate for the lost revenue of the respective leagues. It is also believed that the UAAP is better commercially between the two, although the two leagues practically command the same captive audience which flocks to the games religiously.

Third, is there enough time to effect a merger this year with UP hosting the UAAP in six months’ time?

Fourth, given those mentioned above, are all the league members going to agree to a full merger to form a new league? Or will the NCAA and the UAAP be some sort of divisional or conference championship from which surviving schools would compete in a highly trumpeted super-league type of round?

Only Pato can answer this question. But the only lingering thought in my mind is whether or not he can pull this off ASAP.

Good luck, Pato and Happy New Year to everybody!

LION
01-02-2008, 01:53 PM
Masyadong serioso na ito... Pagaanin naman natin ng kaunti.

MVP will wear something similar to the Philippine flag... baka makahiram siya kay Bata or Django.* As to saan siya uupo... baka sa officials table as one of the main people in SBP. :D

Peace! :D

HAPPY NEW YEAR!




Nyahahaha! Happy New Year! ;D

atenean_blooded
01-02-2008, 02:07 PM
No they're not.* The issue is about taking risk when there is no assurance of a favorable outcome.* In that regard, they are not different, they are the same.

The issue of risk already presupposes the lack of assurance regarding a favorable outcome. But the fundamental difference is one situation involves risk that's already been assumed and is subject to change, whereas the other involves the choice whether or not risk should even be involved. At that basic level, they are different.



To follow your line of thought:* What incentive are you looking for?* You keep shooting down answers that are being offered as "incentives", & yet cannot put forward an incentive you insist will be good for the UAAP.* This gives the impression, that you don't know what will be a good incentive for the UAAP, & is just content on shooting out what's out there.* Maybe some peopla are afraid to make a stand for something, & would rather be content on criticizing ideas.

Illogical. Answer the questions instead of trying to attack me.




No, that's reality.


Another illogical response.

gameface_one
01-02-2008, 02:12 PM
^^^^ Ok guys. That's it. Let's move on or we will be forced to delete the posts. I suggest that personal issues be just coursed via the PM function.

Happy New Year.

atenean_blooded
01-02-2008, 02:14 PM
I'll go back to the first questions I asked, with some changes:

What's the incentive for the UAAP, the NCAA, and other stakeholders? Assuming for the sake of argument that you've actually come up with an answer, how is this answer an incentive? Why doesn't the SBP, UAAP, and NCAA simply focus on developing one of the existing leagues like the CCL instead?

Nike Air
01-02-2008, 02:18 PM
I agree with AB. Focus on the improvements and strengthen the market and credibility of CCL and treat this as the Philippines' version of March Madness. The UAAP, NCAA, and other leagues such as CUSA, NCRAA, NAASCU will serve as individual conferences like ACC, PAC-10, Big Ten, Big 12, etc. the same thing in USA.

A-boy97
01-02-2008, 02:24 PM
Another interesting match-up.... dlsu vs csb!

Paano na one la salle theme? ;D

Peace guys!

atenean_blooded
01-02-2008, 02:26 PM
I agree with AB.* Focus on the improvements and strengthen the market and credibility of CCL and treat this as the Philippines' version of March Madness.* The UAAP, NCAA, and other leagues such as CUSA, NCRAA, NAASCU will serve as individual conferences like ACC, PAC-10, Big Ten, Big 12, etc. the same thing in USA.


That's one thing I was thinking about. If the people behind this "merger" want to benefit amateur basketball in the country, why are they limiting this "merger" to two leagues in Metro Manila?

Jaco D
01-02-2008, 02:36 PM
I'm looking at this merger with guarded optimism. *Unang-una, Pablohoney earlier raised what I think is a valid point that nobody seems to address: *what about the other sports? *Will the basketball schedule be merged yet the leagues will function as separate entities for the other sports? *Last time I checked, the NC and UA were more than just basketball. *The other thing is why is everyone, or at least the more visible ones, bent on making this happen during the UP jubillee? *The way things are going mukhing this will be just like any politically-motivated initiative - *short-sighted and not well thought out.* Frankly I think there are other more worthwhile inititiatives to undertake (upgrading officiating standards, etc.) that would serve local basketball better in the long run.

Hmm, do the right things then do things right.

mighty_lion
01-02-2008, 02:53 PM
Another interesting match-up.... dlsu vs csb!

Paano na one la salle theme? ;D

Peace guys!


I was thinking about it for a while. Not the game, players, cheers nor what will be the color. Its about the courtside reporters. Chinita vs Mestiza. :D

Anyway, going back to the topic im kind of indifferent in this issue. Until now. Pros and cons are there and I like Eric Altamirano's article. Interesting proposal pero hindi ko talaga nakikitang magkakatotoo ito this year.

RockLobster
01-02-2008, 03:09 PM
^Maganda ang punto mo. Ganun na lang ba talaga tayong mga Pinoy? Lahat ng aspeto ng buhay natin, may pulitika/political motivation na involved?

Mukhang ngang may nagpapa-pogi lang at nagpapa-bango ng pangalan in the name of Philippine basketball. Ipinipilit as part of UP's centennial celebration daw, eh I haven't heard anything from the UP stakeholders and organizers. He may be from UP, but I don't think he speaks totally for and in behalf of the organizers of the celebration, and for the whole community for that matter. Nakakatawa din na nagkataon yatang kandidato din siya para maging commissioner ng premier professional basketball league sa bansa, at luamalakas ang chance niyang ma-appoint with all this publicity.

Tama, may iba pang sports na involved in both collegiate leagues. Kung totoong merger ito, madaming oras ang dapat gugulin para ma-realize ito. Kung basketball lang ang pag-iisahin, eh, obvious na palabas lang ito ng bidang aktor. Maganda para sa UP centennial celebration, pero panandalian lang ang epekto, mistulang palamuti, para lang pumogi at bumango ang pangalan ng iilan.

GHRanger
01-02-2008, 03:24 PM
Another interesting match-up.... dlsu vs csb!

Paano na one la salle theme? ;D

Peace guys!


I thought about it too... pero One Lasalle pa rin. Everyone would be cheering for everyone. Hahahaha...

Going back, two important things have been raised:

1. Basketball and Non Basketball? or Basketball Alone?
If it's basketball alone, I'm now more inclined to a formalized, mandated, non-invitational championships series.

2. 6 months of preparations?
You've got to be kidding! The idea is good and the format looks simple, but the execution will be much more difficult than others foresee. Well, the longer Pato thinks of an answer, the shorter the time frame to prepare until the next season opens.

Nike Air
01-02-2008, 04:50 PM
Another interesting match-up.... dlsu vs csb!

Paano na one la salle theme? ;D

Peace guys!


I was thinking about it for a while. Not the game, players, cheers nor what will be the color. Its about the courtside reporters. Chinita vs Mestiza. :D

Anyway, going back to the topic im kind of indifferent in this issue. Until now. Pros and cons are there and I like Eric Altamirano's article. Interesting proposal pero hindi ko talaga nakikitang magkakatotoo ito this year.


I like the courtside reporter match up. Damn puede bang sila na lang maglaban? Hehehe. ;D

Imagine you'd be hearing the same cheers and drumbeats throughout the game. Para matipid, ilagay na lang ang game sa sports complex ng either main or CSB hehehe.

Mahirap ngang ipatupad ito in 6 months time. Clock is ticking ika nga nila and they better clean up fast to iron out details of the proposal. Madaming kailangan ayusin dyan especially the rules and regulations of both leagues. Anung gagawin nila dito? Madaming detalye na kailangan linisin and I don't think this can happen in 6 months time. UAAP board na nga lang e, ang tagal mag-decide sa simpleng bagay, yan pa kayang merger na isang nakapalaking event.

Semenelin
01-02-2008, 06:12 PM
I agree with AB.* Focus on the improvements and strengthen the market and credibility of CCL and treat this as the Philippines' version of March Madness.* The UAAP, NCAA, and other leagues such as CUSA, NCRAA, NAASCU will serve as individual conferences like ACC, PAC-10, Big Ten, Big 12, etc. the same thing in USA.


That's one thing I was thinking about. If the people behind this "merger" want to benefit amateur basketball in the country, why are they limiting this "merger" to two leagues in Metro Manila?


i would want to see a unified league also with members coming from outside UAAP and NCAA but then that'll take more time to prepare and actually implement. If this merger does push through with only a few glitches then maybe they can add the other leagues little by little.

atenean_blooded
01-02-2008, 06:32 PM
I agree with AB.* Focus on the improvements and strengthen the market and credibility of CCL and treat this as the Philippines' version of March Madness.* The UAAP, NCAA, and other leagues such as CUSA, NCRAA, NAASCU will serve as individual conferences like ACC, PAC-10, Big Ten, Big 12, etc. the same thing in USA.


That's one thing I was thinking about. If the people behind this "merger" want to benefit amateur basketball in the country, why are they limiting this "merger" to two leagues in Metro Manila?


i would want to see a unified league also with members coming from outside UAAP and NCAA but then that'll take more time to prepare and actually implement. If this merger does push through with only a few glitches then maybe they can add the other leagues little by little.


True, but who says we have to implement it this year? Gregorio?

dark_seid
01-02-2008, 07:14 PM
at eto sana ang gusto kong format if this will go according to plan:

1. The league is composed of 16 teams, 8 from UAAP and 8 from NCAA
2. Double Round Robin; 15 games per team para mas mahaba
3. may knockout/playoffs or quarterfinals
4. Semi-finals like the usual Final 4 in the UAAP and NCAA (no. 1 vs. no. 4, no. 3 vs. no. 4)
5. There will be a battle for 3rd place for the Semis losers
6. Lastly, Best of 3 finals to determine the best collegiate team



the tournament will stretch from the 1st semester past into the 2nd semester (for the 2 semester academic year). it is too long because other sports have to take center-stage (i am assuming this is a merger inclusive of all the disciplines).

i am of the same opinion that doing it like the us ncaa (with pac-10, acc tourneys then a march madness to crown the overall bball champion) is better. with this, make the ccl take a bigger importance.

gameface_one
01-02-2008, 07:17 PM
Gamefacers, kindly answer the poll question above. We will need your full participation and support here as this survey will be used as one of the bases in determining the pulse of the fans. The results of this shall be forwarded to the Board members of the UAAP and NCAA.

Pls support us on this. Thanks.

gameface_one
01-02-2008, 09:47 PM
The most likely format scenario according to an insider from the SBP is a 2 division (each consisting of the members of each league) league. The top team for each division after the 2nd round of eliminations will be declared a division champion (so there will be 2 division champs - Similar to the Division champs of the NBA). Thereafter, either the top 2 or top 4 of each division will have cross-over matches (4 vs 1, 2 vs 3). The top 2 teams then duke it out for the championship.

While this is happening, the Provincial championships (teams involving other leagues and the provincial leagues) should also be taking place such that a few weeks the merged UAAP/NCAA finals, the battle for the National championship should also be held immediately.

Another option they are looking at is a merged TV coverage sked of an NCAA game (ex. SBC vs Letran at 2 pm) and UAAP game (ex. UST vs. NU at 4 pm).

Actually, on the issue of the TV coverage of abs-cbn, it should be the merged league who should dictate the terms and not the other way around - of course in consistent with whatever contract they signed witht he broadcasting network.

atenean_blooded
01-02-2008, 10:56 PM
The most likely format scenario according to an insider from the SBP is a 2 division (each consisting of the members of each league) league. The top team for each division after the 2nd round of eliminations will be declared a division champion (so there will be 2 division champs - Similar to the Division champs of the NBA). Thereafter, either the top 2 or top 4 of each division will have cross-over matches (4 vs 1, 2 vs 3). The top 2 teams then duke it out for the championship.

While this is happening, the Provincial championships (teams involving other leagues and the provincial leagues) should also be taking place such that a few weeks the merged UAAP/NCAA finals, the battle for the National championship should also be held immediately.

If this is the format, how is it really different from how we currently have post-season tournaments like the CCL, except for the cross-over matches between the UAAP and NCAA? And how do other sports figure in this? Because if this is just basketball, why make this a UAAP and NCAA thing, and not just have an SBP-led amateur league, inviting the member schools to participate? Or why not just have the SBP take over the CCL, and then reformat that league?



Another option they are looking at is a merged TV coverage sked of an NCAA game (ex. SBC vs Letran at 2 pm) and UAAP game (ex. UST vs. NU at 4 pm).

Actually, on the issue of the TV coverage of abs-cbn, it should be the merged league who should dictate the terms and not the other way around - of course in consistent with whatever contract they signed witht he broadcasting network.*


Question: Will ABS-CBN or whoever gets broadcast rights agree, assuming it can also get separate coverage of the UAAP and NCAA with separate advertising schemes and payments? Because if the games of the new "league" adopt, for example, the schedule of the UAAP (Thursday, Saturday and Sunday), that might mean advertising revenues for just those days, instead of advertising revenues for Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday (?), Saturday, and Sunday.

Also, is there any word about how things like venues will be affected?

gameface_one
01-02-2008, 11:12 PM
^^^ I'm sure there will be more questions. I suggest that we all wait and see on how the details will come out in finality. For now, it is still a general concept/idea that is up for selling.

On the marketing side, we can all make our own assumptions but who knows? This might even make more money than the existing set-up - of course depending on how palatable the new product price mix will be.

thesiege
01-03-2008, 01:31 AM
Then what, reestablish the basketball court as another battle arena? The leagues are living at peace without each other then why all of sudden, merge?
To relive the extinct rivalry? At what cost? Violence, or perhaps even more.
Admit it, there's more politics than most people think there is.

-------

ADMU, DLSU, UST, UP, and NU left the NCAA because, as what ab has reiterated, of violence and hooliganism. Then all of sudden the merger will push through despite the awful history of the league. It would be a riot.

atenean_blooded
01-03-2008, 05:28 AM
Then what, reestablish the basketball court as another battle arena? The leagues are living at peace without each other then why all of sudden, merge?
To relive the extinct rivalry? At what cost? Violence, or perhaps even more.
Admit it, there's more politics than most people think there is.

-------

ADMU, DLSU, UST, UP, and NU left the NCAA because, as what ab has reiterated, of violence and hooliganism. Then all of sudden the merger will push through despite the awful history of the league. It would be a riot.*


Again, 6 out of 8 UAAP members were teams which abandoned the NCAA for various reasons. The Ateneo and La Salle left the NCAA due to hooliganism and violence. UP, UST, and NU left the NCAA due to commercialism. FEU left the NCAA shortly after those three left. And these were 6 out of the 8 NCAA's original founding members we're talking about.

And today, the leagues enjoy their own fan bases, and both have rich history. They still have their differences. And this is even if we just talk about basketball.

So again, is it necessary to establish a new league just to get the teams to play one another, at least for basketball? These are the questions which I hope can be answered in the coming days or weeks.

5FootCarrot
01-03-2008, 07:58 AM
I still have to think about whether the proposed merger is a good or bad thing. For now all I can say is that there are some good aspects to it, but also some bad ones that keep me from wholeheartedly agreeing to the idea. In the meantime, some preliminary thoughts...

1. I like the 2-division with crossover eliminations format not just for basketball, but for all sports. It's what I had in mind when I was thinking about how the two leagues would merge. (I wasn't really thinking about the US NCAA here, though - it reminded me of Major League Baseball and the Super Bowl.) This way, schedules and resources are not terribly stretched: although more games especially between UAAP and NCAA schools would be fun, it would mean more expenditures for fans, and greater risks of injury and less time spent studying for the players, who (whether they want to or not) need to prepare for futures that may or may not include an Olympic stint and/or semipro/pro career.

2. It's a shame that the proposed merger appears redundant when we already have the CCL more or less in place. I think one of the CCL's main selling points is that it hosts games between UAAP and NCAA schools. The proposed UAAP-NCAA merger would remove much of the impact of those games. I suppose that, in order to stay alive, the league would have to build on its other strengths, but that discussion belongs in another forum ;D

3. Am I the only one who finds it ironic that some schools left the NCAA for the UAAP because of over-commercialization? Of course, those schools didn't know what was in store for the UAAP at the time...

4.



And today, the leagues enjoy their own fan bases, and both have rich history. They still have their differences. And this is even if we just talk about basketball.

So again, is it necessary to establish a new league just to get the teams to play one another, at least for basketball? These are the questions which I hope can be answered in the coming days or weeks.
If fans just want to see their team play against teams from other leagues, they could always just arrange for exhibition games like the Ateneo-San Beda game/s from a few years back. However, this arrangement lacks the "official" dimension offered by a win-loss record within a league format.

Schortsanitis
01-03-2008, 08:48 AM
Hooliganism DID NOT END when teams bolted the NCAA for the UAAP, let's not forget that one, simple fact. Its not like the UAAP teams ended " ..... happily ever after .....", playing games in the true spirit of brotherhood.

Questions? Fine. But bottomline is that the merging NEEDS to be done, & it HAS to be done. We can't go on w/ having different leagues throughout the country, each with it's own little world.

mighty_lion
01-03-2008, 09:23 AM
1. I like the 2-division with crossover eliminations format not just for basketball, but for all sports. It's what I had in mind when I was thinking about how the two leagues would merge. (I wasn't really thinking about the US NCAA here, though - it reminded me of Major League Baseball and the Super Bowl.) This way, schedules and resources are not terribly stretched: although more games especially between UAAP and NCAA schools would be fun, it would mean more expenditures for fans, and greater risks of injury and less time spent studying for the players, who (whether they want to or not) need to prepare for futures that may or may not include an Olympic stint and/or semipro/pro career.



If ever this merger push and the number of games increases as a result of cross over matches, I would suggest they amend the rule by extending the number of players per team from 15 to say.. 18-20 maybe. Another option would be to stick with 15 players rule per team but with option to get players from Team B if __ numbers of players gets injured.

5FootCarrot
01-03-2008, 10:11 AM
I agree with mighty_lion, if there are going to be more games, each school must be allowed to field more players.

This leads me to raise the following concern - does the merger mean that the two leagues will have to harmonize their rules and standards? One glaring difference between the two is the stricter eligibility requirements in the UAAP. I don't know if the UAAP will agree to merge with the NCAA if their players are subject to different requirements as their counterparts.

If harmonization is required, a lot of work will have to be done to have everything in place by July. It would be stupid to push for everyone to agree to a proposal and then implement it without thinking all the details through, and have all kinds of kinks emerge when things are actually underway.

gameface_one
01-03-2008, 10:14 AM
Hooliganism DID NOT END when teams bolted the NCAA for the UAAP, let's not forget that one, simple fact.* Its not like the UAAP teams ended " ..... happily ever after .....", playing games in the true spirit of brotherhood.*

Questions?* Fine.* But bottomline is that the merging NEEDS to be done, & it HAS to be done. *We can't go on w/ having different leagues throughout the country, each with it's own little world.*



One thing going with the SBP leadership is that they seem to have the political will to do this. It has to be anticipated that there will be a lot of objections from all sectors just to derail this concept from becoming a reality. Anticipate also the old BAP brothers will do their anti-merger campaigns anytime now because if this mereger succeeds, sa kangkungan talaga sila pupulutin and the merger will further solidify SBP's hold in the federation.

A-boy97
01-03-2008, 12:45 PM
Then what, reestablish the basketball court as another battle arena? The leagues are living at peace without each other then why all of sudden, merge?
To relive the extinct rivalry? At what cost? Violence, or perhaps even more.
Admit it, there's more politics than most people think there is.

-------

ADMU, DLSU, UST, UP, and NU left the NCAA because, as what ab has reiterated, of violence and hooliganism. Then all of sudden the merger will push through despite the awful history of the league. It would be a riot.*



Mga pards, 2008 na.* It has been more than 20 years since a school has transferred from the NCAA to the UAAP.* Let's give some credit to the NCAA and to the schools that have been known for hooliganism.* In my humble opinion, the situation before is not the same now.* There would still be "asaran" and "kantiyawan" but I believe it won't lead to riots like before.

As for the format, it seems like a quick-fix thing.* I was hoping all the UAAP schools will have a chance to face the NCAA schools at least once.* Maybe with the 6-month preparation this is the only way but I hope in the future, may it be 2 years, 5 years or even 10 years from now, we will have a format wherein all schools will meet.

The merger is a welcome idea. A well thoughout plan will be good for Pinoy basketball. IMPLEMENTATION HOWEVER MAY NOT BE APPLICABLE NOW... NOT YET.* As I said before, there are still plenty of questions begging for answers.*

For the merger to push through, the UAAP and the NCAA must clean and fix their own internal mess first.* We should also not be limited with the UP centennial anniversary time-table.* If hindi talaga kaya in 6 months, then huwag natin pilitin.* However, we shouldn't scrap the idea all together if it can't be done this season.* We should continue working on it!

Peace!* One Big Fight!*

birdman33
01-03-2008, 02:47 PM
I would rather see the entire collegiate basketball world united under one entity (ala US NCAA) to supervise while keeping the independence of each league. Schools will then have a schedule of playing with teams from other leagues and then buckle down in their own league to set the league champion This format will make the CCL more relevant when a true national champion can really be crowned and will provide exposure to all teams even from the less prominent leagues. this will also allow one body to monitor issues like recruitment, amatuerism and drug use. Even the playing field for everyone.

Isipin niyo na lang. What if during inter-league play La salle gets beat by a team from the Visayas. Then it wins the UAAP crown, they'll be motivated to join the CCL just to get back at that Visayan team to really lay claim to their championship.

RockLobster
01-03-2008, 03:30 PM
^I like your idea, which may have been the idea in the other posts, hindi ko lang na-gets. ;D

Keep the current leagues na parang US NCAA conferences, and then may inter-league games, just like in the US. Tapos, after each league tournament, there's the national tournament, in our case, the CCL. Only it's got more games, para ngang March Madness, eventually crowning a national champion.

Huwag lang sana maunahan ng pulitika at self-preservation. Eh di ba nga, nagbotohan pa diumano ng bagong presidente itong "Basketball Association of the Philippines (BAP)" in the person of former congressman Prospero Pichay. Naknampu, ayos na eh, guluhin pa ba? Kundi ba naman kagunggungan yan. Sa pag-organize ng merger ng UAAP at NCAA, sigurado magsusulputan yang mga dating bataan nung lumang BAP at gagawa ng paraan yan para hindi mag-succeed itong endeavor na ito ng bagong BAP-SBP. Huwag sana. To borrow from Mateen's personalized picture: "Hindi ka(yo) nag-iisip. Utang na loob, tama na."

atenean_blooded
01-03-2008, 05:15 PM
Questions?* Fine.* But bottomline is that the merging NEEDS to be done, & it HAS to be done.* We can't go on w/ having different leagues throughout the country, each with it's own little world.*


Why insist on a NEED for this merger? Why is it a NEED?

And in other countries, there are different regional leagues and conferences. But there is a separate tournament (the US NCAA's March Madness thing) where the top teams in each league play for a national championship.

And in the Philippines, we have the UAAP, NCAA, and several other leagues. And we have a national championship: the CCL.

thesiege
01-03-2008, 06:16 PM
It's not a NEED for crying out loud. With everyone's due respect, we need not emulate the USA collegiate basketball league as it is patterened to the American culture. It's UAAP and it's really not a good idea to relive those ol' days as there aren't any guarantee that violence would never happen again.

If you want the champion team of UAAP would go against the champion of NCAA. That would be better but not round robin and take us ages before we finish the tourney. This would disrupt the other sports events which is also part of the UAAP and the NCAA then creating the bias against other sports which also are integral parts of the league.

(To be honest, it's more like asking a share of a limelight. Or perhaps propitizing from the league after reviving extinct rivalry such as the atebeda, and deletran. WHO KNOWS?

NCAA knows that nothing would ever beat the Ateneo-DLSU rivalry ever. :) )

Animo
Ateneo :)

amdgc82
01-03-2008, 08:05 PM
http://www.inboundpass.com/2007/12/31/merger-fever/

Merger Fever
by Mike Abasolo
Monday, 31 December 2007

The College Basketball preseason is just around the corner. And any basketball addict I bump into that follows Philippine College Basketball has asked me about the NCAA and UAAP merger initiative. They’ve read, heard, and hell yeah discussed with a cold can of beer about the great news that the SBP has finally making its presence felt by unifying the NCAA and the UAAP to forge a unified college basketball tournament.

But is such a merger possible? For one thing, history has it that the UAAP is a breakaway league of the NCAA. And the UAAP has enjoyed financial success since accepting two former NCAA members into its fold.

If ever the NCAA and UAAP should decide to make another milestone thru this merger, what kind of format will they use? A concept can be is to have each league go on a single round format then take the top 4 teams from each, have a crossover knockout match to determine the final 4 and so on.

A more radical scheme can be since the UAAP is the more “influential”, because of the so called “size” advantage (not who is the elder) over the other league, willing to absorb arguably the 4 “big” or original teams of the NCAA and comprise the Premier or Division 1 league. The next 4 teams will be merged with the other college leagues such as the NCRAA to form the 2-tier league or Division 2.

Another approach for the formation of a US NCAA type format would be to combine the top 4 teams from both the NCAA and UAAP the Division 1 league. The bottom 4 from each league will be relegated to Division 2 status. This method might cause some loathing among member teams because, for sure, those teams that got the 2-tier bid will have a lot of questions about their category alteration and the organizers better justify their basis for making such a change if they decide to go into this direction.

Or, both leagues can just go by their own business, the champions from both leagues meet for a final time to fight for the bragging rights - as the best college basketball team. The CCL or now known in 2007 as the CNC, has this vision, so why make it redundant?

As recent incidents from the 2007 edition of the CNC pointed out, that teams, after a grueling grind during the season, will most likely suffer from basketball fatigue and will surely make this an excuse to skip the event even if you give them advance notice that such an endeavor do exist in the College Basketball calendar. In other words, nobody is taking this noble undertaking seriously.

Eligibility, scheduling and all these operational concerns will not be the issue. The issue remains in the interest of the stakeholders themselves that will determine if they want this to work. Both leagues have met in preseason tournaments, post season games in recent past which definitely prove that this merger can work. It is just a matter of pride and coming together plus the idea of who really is the best is enough to convince everyone that this merger will be the future of Philippine College Basketball.

amdgc82
01-03-2008, 08:06 PM
http://bleachersbrew.blogspot.com/2008/01/on-that-merger.html

Wednesday, January 2, 2008
On that Merger

I like the sound of a merged league, but come to think of it, here is why it is not going to be easy to put together:

1. Why stop with the UAAP & NCAA? Why not ask NAASCU and NCRAA to join in as well? But really, the best thing to do is to make the Collegiate Champions League the ONE TOURNAMENT THAT BINDS EVERYONE then keep everyone else where they are right now. Does anyone see the ACC, Big East and Big Ten merging? They're fine. They have their division/conference championship then if they qualify they all go to the Big Dance. But as a one shot season I'd say why not?

2. There are vastly different rules when it comes to the league. There is a reason why the balance of power has shifted to the NCAA. Their eligibility issues suck. Anyone can play in this league and do you even think that these kids study at all? Of course the UAAP is not squeaky clean but they are more stringent in their eligibility rules. The two leagues also have different skeds and the NCAA does not have as many sports. And that leads to...

3. Profit sharing. Now why would the UAAP want to share their ratings and revenue with the NCAA? With all due respect to the Grand Old League, they are a tough sell to advertisers. It was only the other year that the NCAA broke even when it came to TV sales and production expenses. But get this... Studio 23 sales had to tell advertisers that if they wanted in the UAAP then they have to make placements in the NCAA. Network insiders say that some placements were even given as bonuses.

As much I don't believe that our world is all Ateneo-La Salle, that's not how the advertisers think. One can argue that the other schools constitute the lower middle class etc. But the only time they pack the venue is when they go all the way. If you look at the PBA comparisons, during the time of the late-Commissioner Jun Bernardino, some board members would complain that Ginebra always got the prime time skeds. If they placed the Gin Kings at the top of the doubleheader they'd still complain they they were playing to a near empty house. Look, it's this simple... some teams have it, some teams don't.

4. The standings. It's true that merging both leagues will raise the level of competition. But not all the schools are as moneyed as the others, so would they want to go from #8 to #16? That would be the kiss of death to their recruitment. And speaking of recruitment, that would mean the UAAP will have a tough time mining the NCAA teams of their talent. And in turn will make the high school and grade school games even tougher as the recruitment there will go several notches higher. The battleground for league supremacy will be in their "homegrown" teams. and we will see even more crappy officiating.

5. And I am not sure I want to give one school two votes when it comes to board meetings. They should also learn from the PBA which for a time was maybe it still is -- a SMC league.

Make no mistake there are plenty of intriguing stories or match-ups that come with a proposed merger, but that's nothing the Champions League cannot solve. Maybe as a one-shot year, but really, I don't see that happening. It's a feel-good story, but after all, sports is still a business.

But if they can iron out all those kinks then let's go with this. Who knows, it just might be the start of something really good.

Posted by Rick Olivares*

amdgc82
01-03-2008, 08:09 PM
http://bleachersbrew.blogspot.com/2008/01/more-thoughts-on-merger-proposal.html

Thursday, January 3, 2008
More Thoughts On the Merger Proposal

As much as I like the merger I'm only for it for one season. After that unless they really want to stick together then that's up to them. But the one that stands to lose it all is the UAAP. From a business standpoint, it doesn't help them in the long-run as every team runs the risk of getting shunted down the standings or being upstaged by the other schools. Of course the NCAA wants what the UAAP has and they have everything to gain from this.

Do you think that Henry Sy would like to see Megamall connect through a tube that will connect Robinson's Galleria and Shangri-La EDSA? Do you think Summit magazines would like to do a joint venture with Mega publishing? Do you think ABS-CBN Skycable would like to keep Solar Sports because Studio 23 and its other channels are feeling the heat from not rating (oh yeah, they're no longer on its cable roster). Do you think that GMA is willing to do a project with those no-balls hotel putschists (here's a jab -- they say they're willing to die but as soon as they get tear gassed then they give up! Bwahahaha)? Er, maybe on this it's possible because that's politics and you know how it makes for strange bedfellows.

If it happens then it is without a doubt a great thing for college basketball. Sorry let me qualify that -- for the UAAP and the NCAA. Not for the other leagues. They are already having a hard time getting sponsors or even television coverage.

A friend from State University joked, "I guess UP's not content being #8 in the basketball standings that it wants to slide down to #16."

So is it for the fan, for business, or for the country? The answer is somewhere in between. One thing is for sure, they'll have to fix a lot of things.

Posted by Rick Olivares*

Schortsanitis
01-03-2008, 08:29 PM
Why insist on a NEED for this merger? Why is it a NEED?

And in other countries, there are different regional leagues and conferences. But there is a separate tournament (the US NCAA's March Madness thing) where the top teams in each league play for a national championship.

And in the Philippines, we have the UAAP, NCAA, and several other leagues. And we have a national championship: the CCL.


There is a NEED to merge the different leagues, so we can standardize the quality of collegiate basketball in the country. The current set up, is that 'kanya-kanyang MUNDO ang mga liga rito sa bansa natin.' Each w/ its own little world, proclaiming this, or proclaiming that. It needs to be consolidated under one roof, to help drive development of basketball in the country at a collegiate level.

The CCL will never be a "true" collegiate league, as long as it remains an invitational league. You've seen what happened this season, when teams conveniently refused the invitation, & those participating even went to the practice of wearing practice jerseys.

atenean_blooded
01-03-2008, 11:23 PM
Just so we're on the same page, let's use the following definitions:

NEED. (n) Circumstances in which something is necessary, or require some course of action.

NECESSARY. (a) Required to be done, achieved, or present; needed; essential.

Now, this was said:



There is a NEED to merge the different leagues, so we can standardize the quality of collegiate basketball in the country.* The current set up, is that 'kanya-kanyang MUNDO ang mga liga rito sa bansa natin.'* Each w/ its own little world, proclaiming this, or proclaiming that.* It needs to be consolidated under one roof, to help drive development of basketball in the country at a collegiate level.

The argument proceeds from the first sentence: There is a NEED to merge the different leagues (or did Schortsanitis mean just the UAAP and the NCAA?), so it is said. This means that there it is NECESSARY to merge these leagues.

I asked why, previously. And the answer proposed can be broken down into the following points:

1. "so we can standardize the quality of collegiate basketball in the country."
2. Our leagues live in their own "little worlds."
3. There is a need to consolidate everyone under one roof "to help drive development of basketball in the country at a collegiate level."

These three, taken together, can simply be taken that there is a need to come up with "standardized quality of collegiate basketball," because such will "help drive development of basketball in the country at the collegiate level."

First question: Why do we want "standardized quality" (it will be helpful if this is defined)? How can that be good? How is it better compared to the alternative, wherein there is competition among programs, innovation, etc.?

Second question: Is a NEW league NEEDED, given there are existing leagues which can be developed? Or is this simply something that is desired?

Note that even when the UAAP and NCAA were separated back then, the Philippines still managed to have basketball teams that were competitive even at an international level. We need only remember names such as Moro Lorenzo, Caloy Loyzaga, and so on.

So is development something that can depends on the formation of a new league, or must focus lie with individual basketball programs, at least at the collegiate level?




The CCL will never be a "true" collegiate league, as long as it remains an invitational league.* You've seen what happened this season, when teams conveniently refused the invitation, & those participating even went to the practice of wearing practice jerseys.


Teams can refuse to play. That much has been settled. I'd say they can even refuse to play against ANY competitors from the Philippines. It's true that there are consequences, but they retain an option to refuse to play.

As regards the uniforms, the CCL can implement rules regarding jersey use.


What is a "true" collegiate league anyway?







And yet another question, albeit more hypothetical: What happens to these proposals if the universities in the NCAA (JRU, PCU, UPHD) apply to the UAAP within the year, and get accepted?

jembengzon
01-04-2008, 07:38 AM
guys, its a new year. :D

its the same old stuff - argument for the sake of arguing. let's keep things productive please. you can continue through PMs if you want to have a running debate :)

math01
01-04-2008, 08:16 AM
yes to merger, yes to the development of Philippine college basketball :)

LION
01-04-2008, 08:25 AM
guys, its a new year.* :D

its the same old stuff - argument for the sake of arguing.* let's keep things productive please.* you can continue through PMs if you want to have a running debate* :)


;) :) :) :) ::)

LION
01-04-2008, 08:30 AM
http://bleachersbrew.blogspot.com/2008/01/on-that-merger.html

Wednesday, January 2, 2008
On that Merger


2. There are vastly different rules when it comes to the league. There is a reason why the balance of power has shifted to the NCAA. Their eligibility issues suck. Anyone can play in this league and do you even think that these kids study at all? Of course the UAAP is not squeaky clean but they are more stringent in their eligibility rules. The two leagues also have different skeds and the NCAA does not have as many sports. And that leads to...

Posted by Rick Olivares*



::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

:-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

Nike Air
01-04-2008, 08:50 AM
Isipin na lang ng BAP-SBP kung papaano i-change yung mindset ng schools na makikipagpatayan sa respective leagues nila just to get into and win the Collegiate Champions League just like how schools in the U.S. duke it out just to get in the March Madness and win the NCAA national championship.

Maybe Rick was referring to eligibility rules of NCAA regarding on fielding foreigners on their squads.

LION
01-04-2008, 08:59 AM
^ Will someone give Ric Olivares a mirror, please.* * ;D

gameface_one
01-04-2008, 09:12 AM
‘Merger’ champ to get cash prize


By NELSON BELTRAN
The Philippine Star

The BAP-Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas is seriously considering putting up a cash incentive for the champion of the proposed super collegiate league or the unified NCAA-UAAP tourney.

The idea cropped up during the meeting among SBP president Manny V. Pangilinan, vice chairman Ricky Vargas, executive director Patrick Gregorio and some PLDT executives Wednesday.

This developed as San Beda has reportedly made a commitment to the SBP president to support the proposed NCAA-UAAP unification. Pangilinan is the Red Lions’ top supporter.

Gregorio has been doing the rounds of schools involved in the two leagues and has scheduled meetings with top officials of Letran, Perpetual Help and Jose Rizal U Friday.

"Mr. Pangilinan wants the best benefits for the schools and their sports programs. He’s seriously thinking on staking a cash prize to support the sports program of the champion team," said Gregorio.

SBP officials feel the level of collegiate basketball will improve with the merger of the NCAA and the UAAP. The proposed merger came about through the initiative of the University of the Philippines as part of the grand celebration of its centennial foundation this year.

"To sweeten the pot, the SBP is offering sort of gold and glory to the champion," said Gregorio.

Gregorio said possible source of the prize money is the PLDT Foundation.

At the same time, Pangilinan will formally inform the boards of the NCAA and the UAAP on the proposed league.

The SBP, for one, is looking to strengthen the country’s varsity program this year in preparation for the World University Games in Belgrade next year.

"We’re not able to join the recent Universiade. With this super league, this could be the eliminator. The champion team plus the Mythical Five could be our representative to the university games," said Gregorio.

The SBP wants an ad hoc organizing committee be formed soon to discuss concerns, issues and ideas for the unification.

Schortsanitis
01-04-2008, 09:48 AM
guys, its a new year.* :D

its the same old stuff - argument for the sake of arguing.* let's keep things productive please.* you can continue through PMs if you want to have a running debate* :)


;)* * :)* * :)* * :)* *::)


'Wala kang magagawa, maraming mahilig magpa bida, e. Feeling pag nag ko question daw, e, magaling na. E, di patulan.'

Schortsanitis
01-04-2008, 09:50 AM
To "atenean_blooded": Let's continue this at PEx. 'Pakilala ka dun.' My handle there is "rhk111".

mighty_lion
01-04-2008, 10:05 AM
I just dont find it healthy for a collegiate league na meron cash prize sa dulo. Call it incentive as they like but I guess its the prestige of crown (if ever matuloy) that they should be working first. Also, by reading that article, uhm... looks like Mr. MVP has a new media spokeperson in town.

mighty_lion
01-04-2008, 10:09 AM
http://bleachersbrew.blogspot.com/2008/01/on-that-merger.html

Wednesday, January 2, 2008
On that Merger


2. There are vastly different rules when it comes to the league. There is a reason why the balance of power has shifted to the NCAA. Their eligibility issues suck. Anyone can play in this league and do you even think that these kids study at all? Of course the UAAP is not squeaky clean but they are more stringent in their eligibility rules. The two leagues also have different skeds and the NCAA does not have as many sports. And that leads to...

Posted by Rick Olivares*
*

::)* * * *::)* * * *::)* * * ::)* * * *::)* * *

:-X* * * *:-X* * * * :-X* * * :-X* * * *:-X* *



Lets cut it short, posting such public statements/opinions without substantive and more specific arguments makes it nonsense.

Schortsanitis
01-04-2008, 10:30 AM
I think its pathetic for somebody to post his blog links here, just to try to generate more hits for his site.

lekiboy
01-04-2008, 11:01 AM
Isipin na lang ng BAP-SBP kung papaano i-change yung mindset ng schools na makikipagpatayan sa respective leagues nila just to get into and win the Collegiate Champions League just like how schools in the U.S. duke it out just to get in the March Madness and win the NCAA national championship.

Maybe Rick was referring to eligibility rules of NCAA regarding on fielding foreigners on their squads.


ano nga ba sa dalawang liga ang may maraming mga foreigners na naglalaro as of current?

BigBlue
01-04-2008, 12:09 PM
I think its pathetic for somebody to post his blog links here, just to try to generate more hits for his site.



so Schortsanitis, are you saying that amdgc82 is actually Mike Abasolo? or is he Rick Olivares?

on the Merger, I'm for it, in principle. Let's get the different leagues together under one giant umbrella organization, work things out, try to have unified or at least congruent rules on recruitment and eligibility. however, these things take time. the thing is, we already have something with us now, the CCL. let's work on what we have, give it full support, and hopefully, it will indeed be the catalyst needed for change in Collegiate Basketball.

Schortsanitis
01-04-2008, 12:31 PM
I think its pathetic for somebody to post his blog links here, just to try to generate more hits for his site.*



so Schortsanitis, are you saying that amdgc82 is actually Mike Abasolo? or is he Rick Olivares?

on the Merger, I'm for it, in principle. Let's get the different leagues together under one giant umbrella organization, work things out, try to have unified or at least congruent rules on recruitment and eligibility. however, these things take time. the thing is, we already have something with us now, the CCL. let's work on what we have, give it full support, and hopefully, it will indeed be the catalyst needed for change in Collegiate Basketball.




Well, I didn't notice it was "amdgc82" (Visayan Thread Moderator) who posted the blog. I just saw two successive blogs from the same blogspot, & thought some jer .... guy is out posting his blog links again to try to generate hits for his site.

Anyway, I apologize to "amdgc82" for that.

Kid Cubao
01-04-2008, 12:32 PM
para sa lahat, konting lamig lang sa ating diskusyon :)

A-boy97
01-04-2008, 01:34 PM
Marami sigurong nakapanood ng Lord of the Rings trilogy! ;D Panalo sa takilya ito diba.

Baka pag nagkaroon din ng "One league to rule them all" patok din! ;D

Peace! Easy lang guys! Lahat naman tayo gusto ang makakabuti at makakaganda sa larong ating minamahal.

Nike Air
01-04-2008, 01:46 PM
ano nga ba sa dalawang liga ang may maraming mga foreigners na naglalaro as of current?


Kaibigan, mas madaming naglalaro sa UAAP pero sa tingin ko, mas defined na ang ruling ng UAAP regarding foreigners na puedeng maglaro sa isang pamantasan sa UAAP (dalawa lang kada school and hindi ito puedeng pagsabayin sa loob) kumpara sa NCAA. Kung ako tatanungin, sorry pero hindi ako aware sa rules sa NCAA regarding sa kung ilang foreigners yung puedeng maglaro kada school and kung puede ba silang pagsabayin lahat sa loob na maaaring maging bentahe ng isang team laban sa iba. Eto ang maaaring tinutukoy kong pinupuntirya ni Rick sa kanyang blog.

Sorry sa abala at ito'y off topic na pero kung sakaling matutuloy ang merger na yan dapat ay kasama ito sa mga bagay-bagay na dapat i-resolve at pagusapan.

RockLobster
01-04-2008, 02:56 PM
Sorry, just a quick, off-topic reaction to Rick Olivares' blog article... Both Henry Sy, Sr. and Jr. were present during the inauguration of the Ayalas' Trinoma, located just across the Sy's SM City North EDSA. Maybe it isn't as bad as it looks. :D

atenean_blooded
01-04-2008, 03:48 PM
To "atenean_blooded":* Let's continue this at PEx.* 'Pakilala ka dun.'* My handle there is "rhk111".


Off-topic:

PEx? ;D

Pakilala? You mean you've never seen me in PEx before?

But then again, I've stopped posting in PEx. I haven't posted there in a long, long time. Discussions in gameface are more intelligent.



On-topic:


Cash prize? So if one of the wealthier basketball programs wins (Ateneo, La Salle, FEU, etc.), it gets MORE cash? Isn't that sort of counter-productive to the whole "standardizing quality" argument proposed by some people?

LION
01-04-2008, 03:59 PM
ano nga ba sa dalawang liga ang may maraming mga foreigners na naglalaro as of current?


Kaibigan, mas madaming naglalaro sa UAAP pero sa tingin ko, mas defined na ang ruling ng UAAP regarding foreigners na puedeng maglaro sa isang pamantasan sa UAAP (dalawa lang kada school and hindi ito puedeng pagsabayin sa loob) kumpara sa NCAA.* Kung ako tatanungin, sorry pero hindi ako aware sa rules sa NCAA regarding sa kung ilang foreigners yung puedeng maglaro kada school and kung puede ba silang pagsabayin lahat sa loob na maaaring maging bentahe ng isang team laban sa iba.* Eto ang maaaring tinutukoy kong pinupuntirya ni Rick sa kanyang blog.

Sorry sa abala at ito'y off topic na pero kung sakaling matutuloy ang merger na yan dapat ay kasama ito sa mga bagay-bagay na dapat i-resolve at pagusapan.


Rules are usually made in reaction to realities. *Due to the influx of pure-foreigners and half-foreigners in the UAAP in the 90's, the league saw the need to institute rules on the matter. *

Now that a number of pure foreigners and half-foreigners are also playing or set to play in the NCAA, the MANCOM is now preparing a *new set of rules *which is a carbon copy of the UAAP rules, e.g., residency, * etc., which we hope will be applied prospectively. *This was already discussed in the NCAA thread.

Thus, the NCAA eligibility issues on foreigners (as some would like to believe) mentioned by Olivares is already being addressed by the NCAA MANCOM. *Even then, this should not be an issue because there are existing rules already *concerning foreigners. The *fact that the current NCAA rules are different from the UAAP rules does not make the former "suck". *But like what I said, these rules are being revised and made more stringent *in reaction to the influx of *foreign players.

In any case, *I don't think that Olivares is referring to foreign players in his blog. * *:)

Schortsanitis
01-04-2008, 04:53 PM
PEx? ;D

Pakilala? You mean you've never seen me in PEx before?

But then again, I've stopped posting in PEx. I haven't posted there in a long, long time. Discussions in gameface are more intelligent.

(Snort) Uh-huh. ::)

nicksy
01-04-2008, 05:02 PM
if i were to ask, i like the concept of the Merger but... the stakeholders who is pursuing the the merger MUST NOT make it a fast paced procsess (ika nga WAG MADALIIN),not this year, next year or the later. they should put it one-at-a-time, every detail, every possible complication and concerns must be takle and properly disscuss, and all people and organization concerned in this huge proposal should be appropriately addressed.

after all the talks and table meetings, all should have a two thumbs-up for this to go on. maybe this merger is a step closer to a united collegiate organization and in the later other collegiate league within the metro will join.

atenean_blooded
01-04-2008, 06:03 PM
(Snort)* Uh-huh.* *::)



So why not just answer me here? :)

lekiboy
01-04-2008, 07:23 PM
yung merger - para sa akin, napakasimple lang...

kung mabilis man o mabagal o isang suntok sa buwan, just STOP it if you can... knowing the people behind it, execution is the key and they do not take NO for an answer easily...very progressive - walang di pwede especially if they have the influence and the resources to back their plans..

they want to excecute and contribute to the cause of unifying - installment or one quick slash - that doesn't matter. if they see you as a roadblock, you will be relegated to the sidelines....siguradong maiiwan ka.

bottomline, i also see the whole issue as HALF-FULL... masakit sa ulo ang maging cynical...lalong lao na kung ang makikinig sa iyo ay di naman din naniniwala sa pinagsasabi mo at di din matimbang kung may mungkahi ka nang nakatulong sa plano.

di na yata natin malaman kung saan tayo dapat pumuwesto - kung sa kanan, sa kaliwa tayo, kung sa kaliwa, sa kanan naman....para lang maiba... HEW!

eightyfiver
01-04-2008, 10:53 PM
In essence this will not be a merger. They are creating a new league.

pachador
01-04-2008, 11:40 PM
for the philippine situation, an umbrella or federated super league aka super tournament is the best while retaining all the original leagues because the more leagues the better so more people can be president or commissioner kasi kung isa lang ang league sa buong pilipinas e isa lang ang commisioner minetras kung maraming league ay maraming sikat(commisioner) hehehe
tapos all the leagues will play in a super league. ayan sikat lahat. kung baga unity in disunity ;D

AnthonyServinio
01-05-2008, 12:20 AM
for the philippine situation, an umbrella or federated super league aka super tournament is the best while retaining all the original leagues because the more leagues the better so more people can be president or commissioner kasi kung isa lang ang league sa buong pilipinas e isa lang ang commisioner minetras kung maraming league ay maraming sikat(commisioner) hehehe
tapos all the leagues will play in a super league. ayan sikat lahat. kung baga unity in disunity* ;D



* * *THE old discredited Chinese-controlled Basketball Association of the Philippines (BAP) has an umbrella group called the Federation of School Sports Athletic Association of the Philippines (FeSSAP) with Prospero Pichay as its current president.* The group counts a lot of second-level, obscure albeit dormant leagues from all over the country with probably the NCRAA and UCAA as the most prominent member leagues.* When this group was organized, the NCAA and UAAP simply snubbed it!

* * *This group even had the gall to hold their version of the "Battle of the Champions" a week prior to the Collegiate Champions League (CCL).

dark_seid
01-05-2008, 12:25 AM
regarding the poll ...

medyo confusing lang yun ... critical yes depending on the format AND critical no

sa pagkaintindi ko ay pareho lang yun dalawa ... "I support the merger BUT it DEPENDS on the format, else I do not support it"

tama ba? pa-clarify naman

gameface_one
01-05-2008, 12:35 AM
Schort/AB, again pls be reminded that there is the PM function for OT and personal posts. Thanks.

gameface_one
01-05-2008, 01:04 AM
The SBP insider also mentioned that the PSC and some NSAs have likewise signified their support for the merging of the 2 leagues. They assured the SBP leadership that merging of the other sports events shall likewise follow once the issue on the basketball event is finalized.

abcdef
01-05-2008, 03:10 PM
How about feedbacks from the participating schools?

Any news about it? Any unofficial head count on those who are in favor of the merger?

kobewan08
01-05-2008, 05:28 PM
my take: gawin na lang mandatory ang CCL at wag puro galing UAAP at NCAA. yung mga nanalo sa kanikanilang tournament ang isali. kaya nga champions league eh. tsaka para naman seryosohin ng mga teams, dapat masmalaki ang prestige ang makukuha pag nanalo ka sa CCL.

opinion ko lng yun ha.

bchoter
01-05-2008, 05:52 PM
AB, I'll try to answer yor question. What will compell schools from both league to merge? Let's go beyond bragging rights and "good for basketball" ha :D.

For the NCAA:
1. They will stand to benefit from the bigger exposure from a bigger league (in case it will generate bigger interest from college hoops followers) because most school are smaller in size.
2. If they win, it may change the perception that they are the weaker league. Oops "bragging rights" din ba ito? hehe...
3. Commercial gain. Let's face it, the UAAP has a bigger market. A merged league means shared market.

For the UAAP:
1. Mo exposure. Mo money. But then again, that may not be as compelling to the likes of ADMY and DLSU.

So mukhang mas compelling nga sa NC ang merged league. UAAP will lose more than the UAAP it the perception that the UAAP is the bigger is true. But, come to think of it, hindi ba pwedeng reason ang pag form ng bigger league yung very reason ng pag form ng NCAA noon? Di ba it's more about competition naman. But then again, kung tama nga si AB, that's not reason enough for a merger :D

LION
01-05-2008, 07:12 PM
I'm just curious which side Boss MVP will sit if the merger pushes through. ???* ;D

Happy New Year to everyone! Peace!

One Big Fight!!


the obtuse points mvp seating in adm's side.* but my gut feel of late will put him on sbc's.* i feel that he is re-discovering or rather relating more to the line "may their fellowship never cease" of the alma mater hymn he was not able to sing in his mendiola days.
:)

atenean_blooded / Schortsanitis:* happy new year mga bros.* i'm sorry to interrupt your private discussion and to join in.* i believe both your points are valid and your views are from opposite ends.* thus, you may never find common ground or agreement in your exchange.

schort:* you are like many of the posters here that see winning in the hardcourt with true intense competition is incentive enough to realize the merger.* unfortunately, ab doesn't see it the way we see it and he is entirely right to perceive it that way.* i recommend to let it.

ab:* you're right too to view the merger offers no clear incentive for adm.* but schort and others feel otherwise.* i suggest you let it be too.* you have made your case already.

guys, sorry but its still the season of giving so please give and take na kayo.


Sinagot na yan ni MVP kanina. Sa Letran side daw siya mauupo.

michaelangelo_kid
01-05-2008, 07:54 PM
"He was like a cock who thought the sun had risen to hear him crow." - G. Eliot


"Arrogance diminishes wisdom.” - Arabic Proverb

Mateen Cleaves
01-05-2008, 08:28 PM
my take: gawin na lang mandatory ang CCL at wag puro galing UAAP at NCAA. yung mga nanalo sa kanikanilang tournament ang isali. kaya nga champions league eh. tsaka para naman seryosohin ng mga teams, dapat masmalaki ang prestige ang makukuha pag nanalo ka sa CCL.

opinion ko lng yun ha.


Ako din. I'd like to see the Champions' League be the Philippine counterpart of the US NCAA Tournament. The different leagues are retained, along with the associated tradition and prestige of winning the respective league championships. Iba pa rin ang dating kung "UAAP champion" vs "Winner of the UAAP Division", di ba? Plus, even if a school wins the Merged League championship, that's still different from being a true National Champion.

Ang problema lang sa CCL is scheduling. Basketball season starts at least a month and a half after the first sem opens. It can't be any earlier because freshmen have to get enrolled, and practices have to be run. Thus, the season ends right around the end of the first semester. With exams and final papers due for the players, most schools aren't very interested or motivated to participate in a post-season tournament.

Hmmm... Ilipat na lang kaya ang basketball season sa second sem. First week of the sem, laro agad! ;)

john_paul_manahan
01-05-2008, 09:24 PM
how many collegiate leagues are exactly out there? if there are around 16, then each champ gets in. a sort-of selection committee (composed of smart experts who know exactly know what they are doing) will select 16 more and then seed them. then, knockout.

tapos.

mahirap i-maintain ang isang super league.

pio_valenz
01-05-2008, 10:24 PM
How about feedbacks from the participating schools?

Any news about it? Any unofficial head count on those who are in favor of the merger?

Balita ko, one prominent UAAP member school was livid when they first heard of this plan. Bakit hindi daw sila kinunsulta.

I like the idea of a merger down the line, but let's not rush anything just so it can coincide with UP's centennial. Or they can have "cross-over" games instead of a full merger, similar to what the different US NCAA conferences do. Meron conference record at meron overall record. Each UAAP team can play two or three NCAA teams and vice versa. The main problem I see with a full merger is the basketball season will just be too damn long, unless it will just be a one-round robin affair, or 15 games per school.

Dark Knight
01-05-2008, 10:44 PM
My take

1. NU has been pursuing their 2nd title in the UAAP for 55 years now, if they cant get it against 7 teams, how much more if they will play against 15 teams? The respective league doormats will forever be doormats once the merger push through.

2. No cash incentives please. The schools are playing for pride and honor. We dont want them to win just for the cash.

3. What the hell is wrong with the CCL? Just make it a "compulsary" league so that each invited school will join.

4. You cannot compare the basketball tourneys in the US here. Philippine sports has been hounded by politics and personal interests for years now.

5. This site will be reformatted once the merger will push thru. The admin will have to delete and create new sections.* ;D

6. DONT FIX IT IF ITS NOT BROKEN* ;D

Buti na lang di ako sin talino nina schortsantis at atenean blooded* ;D ;D

atenean_blooded
01-05-2008, 11:28 PM
AB, I'll try to answer yor question. What will compell schools from both league to merge? Let's go beyond bragging rights and "good for basketball" ha :D.

For the NCAA:
1. They will stand to benefit from the bigger exposure from a bigger league (in case it will generate bigger interest from college hoops followers) because most school are smaller in size.
2. If they win, it may change the perception that they are the weaker league. Oops "bragging rights" din ba ito? hehe...
3. Commercial gain. Let's face it, the UAAP has a bigger market. A merged league means shared market.

For the UAAP:
1. Mo exposure. Mo money. But then again, that may not be as compelling to the likes of ADMY and DLSU.

So mukhang mas compelling nga sa NC ang merged league. UAAP will lose more than the UAAP it the perception that the UAAP is the bigger is true. But, come to think of it, hindi ba pwedeng reason ang pag form ng bigger league yung very reason ng pag form ng NCAA noon? Di ba it's more about competition naman. But then again, kung tama nga si AB, that's not reason enough for a merger :D


Thank you, bchoter. :)

While you're on the subject of competition, some remarks here and in some of the articles posted here talk about increasing the level of competition. I'm sure that a merger will mean more games, and perhaps some variety in terms of competition. But how this is supposed to "raise the bar" through "a higher level of competition" does not seem to be very apparent. It makes even less sense if you try to reconcile comments about this being good for the country and the fact that the merger up for discussion is just between two leagues in Metro Manila.

AnthonyServinio
01-06-2008, 01:27 AM
I like the idea of a merger down the line, but let's not rush anything just so it can coincide with UP's centennial. Or they can have "cross-over" games instead of a full merger, similar to what the different US NCAA conferences do. Meron conference record at meron overall record. Each UAAP team can play two or three NCAA teams and vice versa. The main problem I see with a full merger is the basketball season will just be too damn long, unless it will just be a one-round robin affair, or 15 games per school.

Let's do some math:

(Elimination round only)

eight teams, single-round = 28 games
eight teams, double-round = 56 games

16 teams, single-round = 120 games
16 teams, double-round = 240 games

16 teams, two divisions of eight, single-round within division = 56 games
16 teams, two divisions of eight, double-round within division = 112 games

atenean_blooded
01-06-2008, 02:27 AM
I like the idea of a merger down the line, but let's not rush anything just so it can coincide with UP's centennial. Or they can have "cross-over" games instead of a full merger, similar to what the different US NCAA conferences do. Meron conference record at meron overall record. Each UAAP team can play two or three NCAA teams and vice versa. The main problem I see with a full merger is the basketball season will just be too damn long, unless it will just be a one-round robin affair, or 15 games per school.

Let's do some math:

(Elimination round only)

eight teams, single-round = 28 games
eight teams, double-round = 56 games

16 teams, single-round = 120 games
16 teams, double-round = 240 games

16 teams, two divisions of eight, single-round within division = 56 games
16 teams, two divisions of eight, double-round within division = 112 games


So if I have my math right, for an 8-team, double round elimination tourney (56 games), and assuming we have 3 game days per week, we have a 7-week elimination period.

So assuming we have a 16-team, 1-division league, a single round of eliminations will take 20 weeks, and double that if we have 2 elimination rounds. So we're talking about a 5-month to 10-month elimination component.

Tama ba? And isn't 10 months the average length of a school year?

amdgc82
01-06-2008, 08:02 AM
MVP labels UAAP-NCAA merger a ‘national objective’
By Jasmine W. Payo
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 02:17am (Mla time) 01/06/2008

MANILA, Philippines -- The proposed UAAP and NCAA merger is part of a “national objective” that aims to streamline the basketball program of collegiate leagues nationwide.

Manny V. Pangilinan, president of the BAP-Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas, stressed this yesterday to allay fears and apprehensions on the grand plan to bring together the country’s top two school organizations.

“Both the NCAA and UAAP have a history of traditions; it’s hard for them to give up their histories and legacies,” said Pangilinan in a radio interview yesterday.

“We understand that. We have to be sensitive to considerations like that. But what should be more important is the national objective, especially for the collegiate players in the provinces who need national recognition.”

Pangilinan noted that the UAAP-NCAA union is just the initial step of a basketball program that aims to streamline the collegiate leagues nationwide.

“I think we’re very serious to have a more formal union not only of the NCAA and the UAAP, but hopefully on a national basis,” said Pangilinan. “We have to take baby steps before a formal union can happen.”

BAP-SBP executive director Patrick Gregorio had already initiated exploratory talks with several school officials the past week.

“There are apprehensions but it’s normal; it’s change” said Gregorio on the program “Sports Talk” anchored by former Senator and cage star Freddie Webb on DZMM.

“We are confident we can address this. One thing for sure, we’re not here to kill the tradition and the institution. We want to protect the UAAP and the NCAA. On our part, it’s how we can elevate the level of college basketball, how we can develop and rationalize the programs, and improve the programs of the federation.”

Among the concerns raised were the tournament format, the UAAP and NCAA’s distinct rules and the financial sharing between the two leagues.

“There are many issues we have to talk about,” said Gregorio, adding that the BAP-SBP will send a concept paper and a formal letter to the two leagues early next week.

The financial aspect of the merger is a big issue according to school officials.

“We have to agree on the financial sharing,” said Henry Atayde, St. Benilde’s representative to the NCAA management committee. “Will the UAAP agree to share to the NCAA the La Salle-Ateneo gate receipts? Or will the NCAA agree to share to the UAAP the San Beda-Letran gate receipts?”

The issue on the sharing of finances is a major concern, particularly because Ateneo-La Salle wars have been a cash cow of sorts for the UAAP.

The format of the merged league has also been contentious, but Gregorio said BAP-SBP has been open to recommendations.

“There are already about 24 proposals on the format,” said Gregorio. “But one that’s standing out is that both leagues will play. We’ll have a champion in the UAAP and the NCAA. Then after that, the top four in each league will battle in a crossover format.”

Dark Knight
01-06-2008, 09:38 AM
“There are already about 24 proposals on the format,” said Gregorio. “But one that’s standing out is that both leagues will play. We’ll have a champion in the UAAP and the NCAA. Then after that, the top four in each league will battle in a crossover format.”


Jesus............this is the very first Bantay Bata format.

bulon1122
01-06-2008, 09:42 AM
it's better siguro kung division 1 ang UAAP then division 2 NCAA. pagkatapos ng double round robin ng each division, kunin yung final 4 ng uaap and final 4 ng ncaa, dun na yung cross over noon, uaap 1 (twice to beat) vs ncaa 4 / uaap 2 (twice to beat) vs ncaa 3 / uaap 3 vs ncaa 2 (twice to beat) / uaap 4 vs ncaa 1 (twice to beat). tapos final 4 then best of 3 or best of 5 finals. isa lang ang magchachampion! either sa uaap iyan o sa ncaa...itong format muna ang gamitin nila. madali at hindi pa complicated.hindi rin masyadong matagal ito.hindi rin masyadong maaapekyuhan ang revenues ng both leagues and hindi pa hahaba ang season.

pero ang opening sabay dapat para merge talag ang dating.

bulon1122
01-06-2008, 09:55 AM
ang malaking problem talaga dito ay yung revenue, dapat talagang pagusapan ito, pero ang maganda sa elite 8 nalang ang hatian ng revenue dahil dun naman papasok ang cross over.

sa rules and eligibility, dapat mag compromise ang both league, one rule lang dapat from the start until finals.

i think its not too late, pwede pa iyan within 6 months.

sa merge na nasuggest, pwede parin naman na maglaban sa finals yung uaap vs uaap, or ncaa vs ncaa. depende na iyan sa outcome ng elite 8 at final 4. as of now, this is the best format i could suggest.

palagay niyo?

Schortsanitis
01-06-2008, 10:53 AM
3. What the hell is wrong with the CCL? Just make it a "compulsary" league so that each invited school will join.


Another problem w/ the CCL, is that only the top 4 or so teams in the NCAA or UAAP get to play against each other.

Nothing necessarily wrong with that, except that most teams from both divisions MAY want to go out & play against the other division's teams at least once.

Personally, I prefer to see a single round robin within each division, then another single round robin against the other division.

In hindsight, though, if & when this league becomes successful enough to include other organizations out there (i.e., CESAFI, NAASU, etc.), the intra-division games will not be feasible anymore, as there will just too many games to play. The CCL format of the only the top teams playing off against each other would be more feasible.

Ghostrider
01-06-2008, 10:57 AM
ang malaking problem talaga dito ay yung revenue, dapat talagang pagusapan ito, pero ang maganda sa elite 8 nalang ang hatian ng revenue dahil dun naman papasok ang cross over.

sa rules and eligibility, dapat mag compromise ang both league, one rule lang dapat from the start until finals.

Yes, the revenues are a very large consideration here. *Let's face it, the other less monied universities use the cash revenues garnered from the basketball competitions to fund their sports programs.

For example, a UAAP team earns P300,000 from basketball revenue sharing, it applies the earnings for the *so-called less glamorous sports (non-revenue) sports like track and field, badminton, tennis and baseball. *

Absent this subsidy, the other teams won't be able to compete. *

bedistaako
01-06-2008, 07:24 PM
For the sake of Philippine Basketball, I hope we entertain the idea of a UAAP-NCAA merger. Let me give some of my insights if the merger pushes through:

1. The merger will raise the standard of Philippine Basketball as a whole. Imagine, schools with poor basketball program will be forced to improve their recruitment program. This will be an eye-opener to other schools with poor basketball programs. If the UAAP-NCAA merger becomes the biggest basketball event in the country then all schools will covet the national championship.

2. The merger will increase the grassroots development nationwide. More provincial player will be recruited to play for these schools. Every single basketball player will aspire to play for this tournament instead of focusing to just be in the PBA. There are great players in the PBL now but never played in the UAAP and NCAA, probably nobody saw them during their collge years. Or maybe, this will give them the chance to study and finish school.

3. The merger will truly establish the true collegiate champion. You cannot use the CCL as basis because it is using a knock-out format. Sabi nga nila, may tsamba at masama laro din ang basketball. Pero kung maraming laro, mas siguradong walang tsamba ang champion. I doubt if University of Visayas deserved to be in the finals of the CCL championship kung nakaharap nila lahat ng team. Pwedeng UST and Ateneo sa finals.

4. Questions on revenue? For God's sake, I hope we put this concern on the bottom list. Remember, schools eatablished NCAA & UAAP to promote competition and enhance the total being of students. Then if the issue will always be revenue, then I guess they are not really sincere in their primary objective.

5. Incentive for both leagues? Do we always need to play for an incentive? This is the problem of our country. We promote incentives to the players that is why the athletes play for the money and not for the school. Hindi naman lahat pera. Siguro naman sa kakarampot na tutubuin mo for example P300,000 each school eh ipagpapalit mo na para sa ikagaganda ng bayan. Each schools can develop a program to improve on their financial aspect by asking their alumni or improving the state of their alumni program.

6. The merger can increase the ratings because it will increase the number of viewers instead of the current viewer's base. This means that they can ask for a higher fee during a 30 seconder advertisement. For now, the major beneficiary will be the NCAA but soon...the UAAP will benefit as well in the increase TV ratings. Aminin na natin, La Salle and Ateneo lang ang nagdadala ng revenue sa UAAP. This means that other schools are not contributing that much. But if we involve many schoools then maybe we can increase the contribution of other schools. Remember, nung nawala ang La Salle hindi naman ganun kadami ang sponsors ng UAAP.

7. Tournament format? We can divide the groups into 2. There must be a mix of UAAP and NCAA in one group. Single round then Top Four cross-over semifinals then top 2 in the finals best of 3 series. This will address the concern on the long duration of the games.

8. We start with UAAP-NCAA first. Soon we can include NCRAA, teams in Visayas, and others. After all, UAAP and NCAA dominates other leagues in terms of talents, resources, and recruitment program. Pagmaayos na then slowly we inject new ideas again.

9. More importantly, let us change our paradigm. Most of the time, I always see the underlying reasons for the merger not to push on the basis of personal gain and pride. I hope we do this for our country and not for any specific group or school. We need to try...Mas important na makita ko ang Pilipinas na manalo sa Asian games or makapasok sa Olympics kesa makita ko ang San Beda na magchampion lang palagi sa NCAA. Kasiyahan ko ang madefend namin ang championship namin at mag-grand slam but I think ok na din hindi magchampion kahit Ateneo or La Salle pa magchampion basta nagkakaisa tayo sa pagganda ng basketball program sa bansa natin. We should be thankful that there are still people who cares for ous country. Tsaka ko na iisipin ang personal gain ni Pato Gregorio tutal lahat naman tayo nagmamatyag at hindi nya tayo maiisahan. ( assuming na totoo ang sinasabi ng iba dito na personal ang intensyon ni Pato sa pagmerge ng league.

jayverns
01-06-2008, 07:42 PM
^^buti nga sana kung basketball lang ang event sa UAAP at sa NCAA, kaso hindi eh maraming sports ang involved.

abcdboy
01-06-2008, 08:30 PM
I like the idea of a merger down the line, but let's not rush anything just so it can coincide with UP's centennial. Or they can have "cross-over" games instead of a full merger, similar to what the different US NCAA conferences do. Meron conference record at meron overall record. Each UAAP team can play two or three NCAA teams and vice versa. The main problem I see with a full merger is the basketball season will just be too damn long, unless it will just be a one-round robin affair, or 15 games per school.

Let's do some math:

(Elimination round only)

eight teams, single-round = 28 games
eight teams, double-round = 56 games

16 teams, single-round = 120 games
16 teams, double-round = 240 games

16 teams, two divisions of eight, single-round within division = 56 games
16 teams, two divisions of eight, double-round within division = 112 games


So if I have my math right, for an 8-team, double round elimination tourney (56 games), and assuming we have 3 game days per week, we have a 7-week elimination period.

So assuming we have a 16-team, 1-division league, a single round of eliminations will take 20 weeks, and double that if we have 2 elimination rounds. So we're talking about a 5-month to 10-month elimination component.

Tama ba? And isn't 10 months the average length of a school year?




Pwede namang w-th-f-sat-sun. marami namang teams.

abcdboy
01-06-2008, 08:36 PM
^^buti nga sana kung basketball lang ang event sa UAAP at sa NCAA, kaso hindi eh maraming sports ang involved.*


basketball lang pagsasamahin dito pero ung ibang sports di magmemerge.

thesiege
01-06-2008, 09:36 PM
This merger is costlier than what you think it is. With almost five times a week (as suggested) to play in different sports arena in the country, and with the only revenue coming from viewer share and advertisement, the proposed event is too much costly. Admit it, we have what we call the 'lesser games' and the 'rivalry games', which garners more viewer share than the former. And in the institutionalizing the merger, the bulk of the lesser games compared to the rivalry games becomes more than the bulk on the current leagues which means less revenue to compensate for the expenses of the merger (arena, the NABRO referees, and publicity).

This part can be subjective but I'll try to be more objective.

Rivalry games:
1. Ateneo - DLSU (undisputed record-breaking crowd attendance) (uaap)
2. Ateneo - Beda
3. DLSU - Letran
4. Beda - Letran (ncaa)
5. Beda- Bastian (ncaa)
6. FEU - UST(uaap)
7. Ateneo - UST(uaap)
8. DLSU - FEU(uaap)
uaap: 4
ncaa: 2
merger: 4

Lesser games:
1. others :)

To be safe, let's assume that there are only ten rivalry games (despite my eight enumeration)
NOTE: We have eight teams in each league which totals into 16 teams

So with single round-robin we'll have:

UAAP only : (8 x 7) / 2 = 28 games
Rivalry games: 4 games
Lesser games: 24 games
% Rivalry: 14.3%
NCAA only : (8 x 7) / 2 = 28 games
Rivalry games: 2 games
Lesser games: 26 games
% Rivalry: 7.14% (Looks like only NCAA will benefit) (This is unless you can enumerate more rivalry games.)
UAAP & NCAA merger : (16 x 15) / 2 = 120 games
Rivalry games: 10 games
Lesser games: 110 games
% Rivalry: 8.3%

7.14% < 8.3% < 14.3%

double round-robin:
UAAP only / NCAA only : (8 x 7) = 56 games
UAAP & NCAA merger : (16 x 15) = 240 games
Rivalry games: 20 games
Lesser games: 220 games

You do the math. tinatamad na ako. But the %Rivalry is the same in each because we're only doubling the amount of games.

atenean_blooded
01-06-2008, 10:51 PM
For the sake of Philippine Basketball, I hope we entertain the idea of a UAAP-NCAA merger. Let me give some of my insights if the merger pushes through:

I agree with some of your points, and I don't with others. And as always, there are questions which might deserve some thought.



1. The merger will raise the standard of Philippine Basketball as a whole. Imagine, schools with poor basketball program will be forced to improve their recruitment program. This will be an eye-opener to other schools with poor basketball programs. If the UAAP-NCAA merger becomes the biggest basketball event in the country then all schools will covet the national championship.

It is difficult to imagine how a merger of 2 Metro Manila leagues will benefit Philippine basketball as a whole. It might benefit some Metro Manila clubs and athletes, given the extended schedule, and more opportunities to play against other college programs. And sure, maybe some other leagues like the PBL and the PBA might be able to spot some (by then Metro-Manila based) talent.

But how will this affect the leagues in Visayas and Mindanao? How will PBL teams get players from the collegiate ranks when a season might last for up to 10 months (the approximate length of a typical schoolyear), given that varsity programs will want to focus on this event? And let's take, say, the national team, which might want to take talent from the college ranks. Talent might be found, yes, but will players be available to play for the national team? Maybe, and maybe not.

Less-affluent basketball programs are probably the way they are because of limited support from their institutions, from their alumni, and so on. Granted that they will be forced to improve their recruitment programs to stem the flow of talent from, say, the provinces to Metro Manila, this does not guarantee that their level of play will improve.

Perhaps an expanded, fully national league akin to the US' NCAA might achieve the effect mentioned. But a merger between two Metro Manila leagues, the merits of which has yet to be fully stated, does not guarantee that.


2. The merger will increase the grassroots development nationwide. More provincial player will be recruited to play for these schools. Every single basketball player will aspire to play for this tournament instead of focusing to just be in the PBA. There are great players in the PBL now but never played in the UAAP and NCAA, probably nobody saw them during their collge years. Or maybe, this will give them the chance to study and finish school.

I agree with grassroots development improving. But rather than just regulating the flow of talent from the grass roots to the "prestigious" programs in this "merged league," the objective should probably be to be able to institutionalize improvements even at the grassroots, towards having a lot of competitive programs instead of concentrating talent and resources in Metro Manila.



3. The merger will truly establish the true collegiate champion. You cannot use the CCL as basis because it is using a knock-out format. Sabi nga nila, may tsamba at masama laro din ang basketball. Pero kung maraming laro, mas siguradong walang tsamba ang champion. I doubt if University of Visayas deserved to be in the finals of the CCL championship kung nakaharap nila lahat ng team. Pwedeng UST and Ateneo sa finals.

What is a "true collegiate champion?" And how does having one champion in a merger of two leagues in Metro Manila crown a "true collegiate champion," whatever that means?

The CCL has a knock-out format? What does the US NCAA's March Madness have? Isn't the tagline there "Win or go home" too or something to that effect?



4. Questions on revenue?* For God's sake, I hope we put this concern on the bottom list. Remember, schools eatablished NCAA & UAAP to promote competition and enhance the total being of students. Then if the issue will always be revenue, then I guess they are not really sincere in their primary objective.

I agree that revenue should not be a question, at least by members of the leagues. But revenues will be a question brought up by other stakeholders, such as sponsors, venue owners, etc.

Since you brought up how leagues are supposed to enhance the "total being of students," given the extended season, how are we supposed to give time for student-athletes (which is the point of these leagues) to study and excel as students?



5. Incentive for both leagues? Do we always need to play for an incentive? This is the problem of our country. We promote incentives to the players that is why the athletes play for the money and not for the school. Hindi naman lahat pera. Siguro naman sa kakarampot na tutubuin mo for example P300,000 each school eh ipagpapalit mo na para sa ikagaganda ng bayan. Each schools can develop a program to improve on their financial aspect by asking their alumni or improving the state of their alumni program.

I brought up the question of incentives, as regards the UAAP, because it's not very clear why the UAAP should assent to the merger. Nor is it very clear why the NCAA should assent to the merger. This is even without considering what some posters have brought up in some of their replies here, that it appears that the UAAP stands to lose more here. And if we want to talk about "national interest," then why are we limiting this to a merger of the UAAP and NCAA, not even considering the "rush" that some parties want so that UP can cram this into its centennial celebration schedule? Why don't we just develop existing formats and leagues that we have, which already bring in teams from the provinces, such as the CCL? Or why don't we just create "collegiate ballclubs" per region (team "Metro Manila" versus team Cebu, for example), since we're talking about national interest anyway?



6. The merger can increase the ratings because it will increase the number of viewers instead of the current viewer's base. This means that they can ask for a higher fee during a 30 seconder advertisement. For now, the major beneficiary will be the NCAA but soon...the UAAP will benefit as well in the increase TV ratings. Aminin na natin, La Salle and Ateneo lang ang nagdadala ng revenue sa UAAP. This means that other schools are not contributing that much. But if we involve many schoools then maybe we can increase the contribution of other schools. Remember, nung nawala ang La Salle hindi naman ganun kadami ang sponsors ng UAAP.

There indeed may be an increase in the number of viewers. But consider this, since you brought up how Ateneo-La Salle games bring in UAAP revenues: Ateneo-La Salle games, not even for the championship, were better attended than the NCAA championship matches. Let's not even talk about Ateneo and La Salle. The Ateneo-UST knockout game had figures that could match the NCAA championship games. And given how interesting this year's UAAP season is likely to be, we're talking big crowds in other games such as Ateneo-UP, UST-La Salle, UE-FEU, etc. So aside from SBC-CSJL games, what games among NCAA teams can speak of similar attendance?

I asked that last series of questions because it will be important to see things from a commercial standpoint, especially if you want to bring up the idea of ratings and advertising rates. Since it seems that there might be more revenues in UAAP games, why will advertisers want to play a flat, league-wide rate even for less-attended games, when they can pay premium rates for popular games (Ateneo-La Salle, etc.) and lower rates for less-attended games, the way things are now? This is especially true if we assume that Studio 23 and other commercial sponsors work out a year-long contractual arrangement.

And it is possible that the NCAA may be the main beneficiary now and the UAAP might benefit to some degree later on. But commercial interests might not always be so visionary, and business decision makers might not see this the way you do, in a manner that is long-term.



7. Tournament format? We can divide the groups into 2. There must be a mix of UAAP and NCAA in one group. Single round then Top Four cross-over semifinals then top 2 in the finals best of 3 series. This will address the concern on the long duration of the games.

Interesting. This might shorten the projected schedules (see previous posts), but how do you think we should divide the groups.



8. We start with UAAP-NCAA first. Soon we can include NCRAA, teams in Visayas, and others. After all, UAAP and NCAA dominates other leagues in terms of talents, resources, and recruitment program. Pagmaayos na then slowly we inject new ideas again.

So why not just develop existing structures and leagues such as the CCL which already bring in top teams from various leagues nationwide instead? Or why not have the SBP-BAP create a new league adopting essentially the CCL's structure and format?



9. More importantly, let us change our paradigm. Most of the time, I always see the underlying reasons for the merger not to push on the basis of personal gain and pride. I hope we do this for our country and not for any specific group or school.* We need to try...Mas important na makita ko ang Pilipinas na manalo sa Asian games or makapasok sa Olympics kesa makita ko ang San Beda na magchampion lang palagi sa NCAA. Kasiyahan ko ang madefend namin ang championship namin at mag-grand slam but I think ok na din hindi magchampion kahit Ateneo or La Salle pa magchampion basta nagkakaisa tayo sa pagganda ng basketball program sa bansa natin. We should be thankful that there are still people who cares for ous country. Tsaka ko na iisipin ang personal gain ni Pato Gregorio tutal lahat naman tayo nagmamatyag at hindi nya tayo maiisahan. ( assuming na totoo ang sinasabi ng iba dito na personal ang intensyon ni Pato sa pagmerge ng league.

I agree. This is also why we don't need to rush into this merger, and why we don't need to cram this into 2008.

atenean_blooded
01-06-2008, 10:52 PM
I like the idea of a merger down the line, but let's not rush anything just so it can coincide with UP's centennial. Or they can have "cross-over" games instead of a full merger, similar to what the different US NCAA conferences do. Meron conference record at meron overall record. Each UAAP team can play two or three NCAA teams and vice versa. The main problem I see with a full merger is the basketball season will just be too damn long, unless it will just be a one-round robin affair, or 15 games per school.

Let's do some math:

(Elimination round only)

eight teams, single-round = 28 games
eight teams, double-round = 56 games

16 teams, single-round = 120 games
16 teams, double-round = 240 games

16 teams, two divisions of eight, single-round within division = 56 games
16 teams, two divisions of eight, double-round within division = 112 games


So if I have my math right, for an 8-team, double round elimination tourney (56 games), and assuming we have 3 game days per week, we have a 7-week elimination period.

So assuming we have a 16-team, 1-division league, a single round of eliminations will take 20 weeks, and double that if we have 2 elimination rounds. So we're talking about a 5-month to 10-month elimination component.

Tama ba? And isn't 10 months the average length of a school year?




Pwede namang w-th-f-sat-sun. marami namang teams.


That's true. What will need to be sorted out then will be gaming venues and other logistical concerns. College leagues aren't the only users of basketball venues.

Jaco D
01-07-2008, 04:35 AM
Pwede namang w-th-f-sat-sun. marami namang teams.


Teka, teka, are we talking student-athletes here or hired guns?

5FootCarrot
01-07-2008, 09:51 AM
The more this is being discussed, the less I like the idea of a merger. (And I wasn't even that gung-ho about it to begin with.)

It's doable, but it will take a lot of work and adjustment to get everything in place, and I don't see that happening by the start of next season. If the basketball Powers That Be in this country - and, more importantly, both leagues involved - really want to push through with a merger, they can go ahead and do it but they'd better iron out as many of the details as they can before implementing anything because no one likes a half-@$$ed job.

(Also, I don't like that the proposal seems to center on basketball. As much as I like following the sport, the UAAP and NCAA host other sports, too, and treating basketball separately from the others seems kind of discriminatory. That's just me, though.)

Further, despite insistences on this thread to the contrary, I honestly don't see the need for the UAAP and NCAA to merge. As has been pointed out here, if the objective is to establish more competition among schools belonging to those leagues (and ultimately among schools across the country), the CCL mechanism already provides an avenue for this.

If the ultimate objective is to promote competition among teams nationwide, I prefer the idea of allowing the various tournaments to operate independently of each other, and then have the champions/top contenders of each league square off. I guess at this point, it's a matter of what the schools involved are willing to do.

Finally, I don't think the benefits of a merger are enough to outweigh the costs to all involved (players, schools, fans). It's not clear whether the proposed merger is envisioned to be a stepping stone to the nationwide basketball competition I mentioned earlier. If it is, then great, even though I still don't see the need for it; but if it's not and someone just wants to look good or make more money, then I don't think the proposal should be considered.

pablohoney
01-07-2008, 09:52 AM
The more I read the posts here, the more inclined I am to say that I am no longer in favor of the merger...
Why? Because:

1.) Of the timing -- It coincides with UP's centennial. Why now lang ito nagkaroon ng ganitong exposure? And again, why only basketball? UAAP and NCAA is not just basketball. And UP's internal problem hounding its basketball program, one can't help but feel something more is at stake... Benefit of the doubt na lang. ::)

2.) Logistics -- Cramming 16 teams into one league, with less than 6 months of preparation -- a recipe for disaster. More time to plan, please, and no grandstanading. If it is really for the good of Philippine Collegiate basketball, I will support it pronto. What format to use? What rules to appy? Eligility rules, status quo ba, or what? Marami pang tanong for usre.

3.) Why only UAAP and NCAA? If really, the reason for merger is as stated in previous posts, why confine the merger to Metro Manila teams only? There is NCRAA, UCAA, etc not to mention the Visyan and Mindanao Leagues... Improvement of Philippine Collegiate Basketball they say?

4.) Bragging rights, financial incentives -- Again, selfish ang dating if ganito lang ang reason for the supposed merger. Monetary incentives? For sure student-athletes mapapaknabangan yan, but wahtever happened to playing for plain and simple SCHOOL PRIDE lang?* ???

5.) TV exposure, marketabality, etc -- I think kung matutuloy man, ito ang last na dapat iconsider. Unless we want to have another No-Cheering-during-timeouts rule enforced by TV networks which ideally should only televise/telecast games and not in some way hinder it by coming up with such restrictions...If everyting is planned well, people will come in droves.

All in all, magandang idea ang merger.. at least for starters, since I thnk everyone wants to know kung sino talaga ang tunay na collegiate champion in the Phiippines... pero gaya ng lahat, dapat pinagpaplanuhan at pinagiisipan ng maigi.
Kapag pumalpak, atrasado na naman ang momentum, at tatagal ang inaasim nating pagbabago.

Ang pinaka-tanong ko lang talaga eh...
Hanggang Basketball lang ba ang plano? ???

5FootCarrot
01-07-2008, 09:55 AM
pablohoney, I wonder if the long-winded discussions on this thread are major factors in our getting turned off the proposed merger ;D

(No offense to the participants of said discussion, of course :-*)

pablohoney
01-07-2008, 10:26 AM
@ 5FootCarrot: Hehe. Nakakahilo na nga at madaming points raised ang mga fellow gamefacers natin.
Pero kase habang tumatagal, lumalaki ang reservations nga mga tao about the merger.
Maybe it just needs more time lang.
Pero sana talaga, huwag lang hanggang basketball. ;D

danny
01-07-2008, 10:30 AM
In terms of recruitment and winning the crown:
What schools will benefit from the merger?
Who will be the losers?

Answer that and you've got the division of the house. :D

LION
01-07-2008, 10:34 AM
^ That's the point precisely. :)

danny
01-07-2008, 10:40 AM
Wala namang ibang dahilan Lion. nyahahaha. Smoke and mirrors. ;D

Thanks for the Serendra meeting mga pare. Next time, after everything has been settled, we can use the Dasmarinas Village house of my inlaws for Powwows. Cross me finger. :D

LION
01-07-2008, 10:46 AM
Wala namang ibang dahilan Lion. nyahahaha. Smoke and mirrors. ;D

Thanks for the Serendra meeting mga pare. Next time, after everything has been settled, we can use the Dasmarinas Village house of my inlaws for Powwows. Cross me finger.* :D




Anytime pare. :)


OT: The merger will force teams, particularly in the UAAP, to develop their own basketball program. Plant and harvest your own products. ;D

pablohoney
01-07-2008, 11:03 AM
So ang bagsak nito is the question... Better League -- UAAP or NCAA?* ;D

So it really boils down to bragging rights...
I thought it was settled na nung last CCL? Or hindi pa rin?* ???

Maybe Sirs Danny and LION can expound on their posts.
Para iwas ang misinterpretation, I think maganda ang point niyo, though I'm curious lang talaga kung ano. ???

Kid Cubao
01-07-2008, 11:24 AM
if UP is taking the lead in the so-called merger as season 71 host school, magalit na ang magalit, pero nasan ang priorities nila samantalang wala pa silang coach for season 71?!? unahin na po muna nila ang pag-appoint ng successor ni coach lipa bago sila ma-involve sa ganito kalaking proyekto.

danny
01-07-2008, 11:28 AM
What is the championship crown all about on the first place? Youth development? ;D

Smoke and mirrors ang karamihan ng *discussion. Matatalino tayo dito. *;D

oca
01-07-2008, 11:35 AM
No single point or argument is encompassing. There are just too many points to ponder upon.

Profit sharing. Format. Eligibility. Yung kina Danny at Lion ay patungkol naman sa recruitment and player development. On this one, can the UAAP easily recruit from NCAA junior teams after the merger? The merger will practically close the valve of that pipeline. Agrravated by the existing "Rivera Rule".

Pag kinonsider mo ang "lahat ng argumento"....magugulo ang isipan ng kahit sino.

Yung mga magagaling sa argumento at pati na rin ang mga nagmamagaling.... dami ng punto nila.

Sa akin, I'll limit my argument to BASKETBALL... ONCOURT.

Outside of each team’s “home league”, teams will have a reason not to compete. If they do compete, they almost always have an excuse when they lose.

A merger will do away with these alibis and excuses.

Simply, I favor the merger for the possibility of finally witnessing an “expanded and no excuse competition".

Will the CCL be made irrelevant?

No.

The CCL can be reserved for competition on a national scale with more teams outside the UAAP/NCAA getting a chance to participate with the same knock-out format, even if they expand it from the current 16-school format. For instead of allocating a combined 8 spots to the UAAP and NCAA, we can just have 4 slots from the merger of these leagues and allow for the participation of 4 more teams from outside the UAAP/NCAA. Why retain 8 spots when in fact nakita na natin maglaban ang 16 sa isang "no alibi, no excuse competition".

To imply or to say that the CCL will become irrelevant or redundant with this merger is the same as saying that Philippine collegiate basketball is all about the UAAP and NCAA.

Hindi yata tama yan. These two leagues dominate the landscape, but they don’t own it.

Since no one among us officially speak for the UAAP or NCAA, I am not inclined to listen to those arguments for or against the merger... does it or does not benefit one or either league.

But why should one even bother about the supposed interest of either league?

When infact, hardly does the interest of the fan or studentry among the top priorities of those in the Board.

Lintek, taon-taon nandyan ang reklamo sa ticketing. Pulos reklamo sa commercialization ng liga. Reklamo sa *officiating.

Natugunan na ba ito ng diretsahan?

So, why should I waste my keystrokes on the interest of the leagues?

I am a basketball fan. A hardcore. My argument is base on competition ---- oncourt.

danny
01-07-2008, 12:03 PM
Kung gusto, may paraan. Kung ayaw, madaming dahilan. :D

nel
01-07-2008, 12:13 PM
I agree with one of 5FC's points. What happens to the other sporting events of the NCAA & UAAP? From all indications, the merger is only about basketball.

It should be an all or nothing affair - incorporate all sports into the proposed merger to be fair to all athletes who compete in the other calendared events of both leagues.

oca
01-07-2008, 12:21 PM
I agree with one of 5FC's points. What happens to the other sporting events of the NCAA & UAAP? From all indications, the merger is only about basketball.

It should be an all or nothing affair - incorporate all sports into the proposed merger to be fair to all athletes who compete in the other calendared events of both leagues.


If one agrees to the merger IF it covers ALL sports, would you want to merge ALL events STARTING NEXT ACADEMIC YEAR?

Would it be possible?

Would it even be possible to merge all events two years from now?

Three years from now?

If merging all competitions is what it is all about, it has to start somewhere....

nel
01-07-2008, 12:40 PM
The merger should only happen when all sports have been taken into consideration. Otherwise, this is simply a duplication of what the CCL tried to do. The NCAA and UAAP are not only about basketball - there are so many other sports on the leagues' respective calendars. A true merger of both leagues should encompass all sports. It wouldn't be fair to the other athletes if their events were excluded.

Edited to add:
If this were to be done on a piecemeal basis, what would happen to the general championships of both leagues? Would the schools' respective cheering squads show up only in basketball?

So many questions, but so far only basketball has been put on the table for discussions. If the plan is to merge both leagues, there should be an overall plan, as well as a specific plan to manage the transition, just like in business where two companies agree to merge. Shortcuts only create more problems.

oca
01-07-2008, 12:58 PM
The merger should only happen when all sports have been taken into consideration. Otherwise, this is simply a duplication of what the CCL tried to do. The NCAA and UAAP are not only about basketball - there are so many other sports on the leagues' respective calendars. A true merger of both leagues should encompass all sports. It wouldn't be fair to the other athletes if their events were excluded.




Masarap isipin merong "grand plan for all sports". At least kahit sa NCAA at UAAP man lang.

But as some have pointed out the realities of the situation, na hindi o at least mahirap matuloy ang merger na ito dahil ganito, dahil ganon... kesyo ganito... kesyo ganon... Maghahanap pa ba tayo ng condition na dapat all events? Pinahihirapan lang nating na matuloy ang merger.

Huwag na pahirapan ang reality.

Hindi nga magkasundo ang mga sports officials in general...gugustuhin niyo pang isama lahat ng events agad.

This is an initiative of the SBP. If other sports would want to do the same, let their NSAs take the lead and use the basketball event as their template...that is, if and when this merger actually gets done.

nel
01-07-2008, 01:30 PM
Actually, if the SBP were serious about a collegiate basketball superleague, all it would have to do is to reactivate and promote the National Students' Championships for the juniors, men's and women's collegiate divisions. The winners of their respective divisions would be the true and official national champion.

There's no need for the SBP to push a merger of the basketball tournaments of the NCAA and UAAP, which would still be limiting because it concerns only 2 leagues. The SBP should have as its focus and scope collegiate basketball on a nationwide basis, not just the two biggest Metro Manila leagues where the SBP head has a personal interest in because he studied in schools which are part of both leagues.

The benefits of the proposed merger remain unclear.

A-boy97
01-07-2008, 01:55 PM
Isabay na lang yung merger sa 150 years celebration ng Ateneo para planado na talaga, 2 years to prepare!! ;D ;D

Seriously, the merger may be good in the long run but not now. *Many intstitutions will be sacrificed if this pushes through so a well thought out plan is needed. *I'd like to see a longer season but this will put the PBL and other amateur leagues in a crisis. A shorter season on the other hand will negate the thirst for old and existing rivalries since schools involved may not actually meet.

I'm in favor of the basketball merger because for me, this will determine the true collegiate champion in Luzon. *The CCL has potential but the main problem with this league is how it will instill interest with people. *I remember 2 years ago even with dlsu suspension and the hunger for an Ateneo-dlsu match-up, ULTRA wasn't that full. *Ateneo-dlsu match-ups are only full in the UAAP. *Thus, the prestige is in the UAAP and NCAA champions and not in the CCL champion unlike in the US NCAA wherein the prestige is in the winner of March Madness.

If the CCL can address the issue of prestige and national interest, then there is no need of merging the leagues. *As I said however, this will be a more difficult agenda since the CCL must change views and opinions of the UAAP which has existed for 70 years(more or less) and the NCAA which has existed for more than 80 years.

Anyway, I think the merger idea has brought a lot of good in Pinoy basketball. *Whether you are in favor of the merger or not, it shows the care and love for basketball. *There is finally a proactive approach in improving the game we love the most. :)

Whether the merger pushes through or not, 2008 Pinoy college basketball will surely be a blockbuster! ;)

Peace! One Big Fight!

jayverns
01-07-2008, 02:39 PM
^^buti nga sana kung basketball lang ang event sa UAAP at sa NCAA, kaso hindi eh maraming sports ang involved.*


basketball lang pagsasamahin dito pero ung ibang sports di magmemerge.


pwede ba yun? eh may overall championship na pinaglalabanan tsaka pag sinabi mong UAAP at NCAA, hindi lang basketball ang usapan diyan.
so ibig sabihin may UAAP-NCAA(basketball lang) tapos may separate league pa na UAAP(para sa ibang UAAP events) at NCAA(para sa ibang NCAA events)?

bluetruck
01-07-2008, 04:17 PM
if merging will professionalize the officiating AND be able to curb the influence of the gambling syndicates, then my answer is a big YES!

math01
01-07-2008, 09:43 PM
i have been thinking if the merger happens, the format could be like this, there will be two divisions. NCAA and UAAP schools. Per division, double round robin. And single round robin between NCAA and UAAP schools lang. Bale parang kung tiga NCAA school mo, yung (for example) Letran vs. Mapua dalawang beses maglalaban sa eliminations tas (for example again) Letran vs. La Salle isang beses lang. Tas after ng elims, crossover format na. No.1 ng UAAP sa No.4 ng NCAA tas vice versa. At least total of 21 games per team lang sa elims. :) kaya pa yung calendar na june-october ang isang season. pero gawen nilang tuesday hanggang sunday yung games at monday lang ang wala. diba? anu sa tingin niyo?

franz_inwurdz
01-07-2008, 10:38 PM
Kung badtrip ako sa hirap kumuha ng tickets sa Championship series sa NC pano pa kaya ako makakakuha ng ticket pag kaagaw ko na mga taga UAAP schools. Last championship nga asa lower box nalang si Freddie Abuda eh. Saan nako pupulutin nyan. Malamang di nako pwede makibile sa kalaban na school ng tiket. o kaya makakatikim ako ng upuan sa general admission, shucks, naka-barong tapos gen ad lang. saan nako makaka-park nyan? Di na exclusive ang Dencio's?shucks? so many things to consider for this merger.

;D

razor
01-07-2008, 11:11 PM
Hardball has reported that the UAAP has said no to merger.

gameface_one
01-07-2008, 11:31 PM
From Pato:

SBP respects the opinion and the concerns of both leagues. We agree that we have to protect the tradition of both NCAA and UAAP. Hindi po galing sa SBP and word na "merger." Yes we can play before and after their championship series. Madaming puedeng format. As a matter of fact, in our letter we proposed a sof working title "let's play together in 2008?" We will continue to reach out to the member schools. We will reach out to abs-cbn, their media partner. We also want to support the Bantay Bata foundation. Our intention is sincere. I hope we can all have coffee together soon.

atenean_blooded
01-08-2008, 01:58 AM
From ABS-CBN.com/Philippine Star

UAAP not ready to a super league

By JOEY VILLAR
The Philippine Star

The University Athletic Association of the Philippines (UAAP) on Monday turned down proposals for a merger of the country’s premier collegiate basketball leagues drawn up by the sport’s governing body in line with UP’s centennial celebration this year.

"We are open to proposals to play for a truly national championship because we have actually been doing that already," said UAAP president Fr. Ermito de Sagon of the University of Santo Tomas in a statement.

"And it should be held either before or after our season. But for us to lose our identity, history and tradition as a league (by agreeing to a merger, I don’t think we (UAAP member schools) are ready to part with that," he added.

BAP-SBP executive director Patrick Gregorio, however, clarified he never mentioned of the word "merger."

"I never spoke the word merger," Gregorio said. "In fact, my letter reads: Let’s play together in 2008. I’ve been saying that word merger was a media term. It never came from me."

Television giant ABS-CBN, which covers both the UAAP and the NCAA (National Collegiate Athletic Association), echoed the same sentiment.

"As far as merging both the UAAP and NCAA is concerned, it’s more complicated than it seems," Peter Musngi, a top honcho of ABS-CBN’s UHF channel Studio 23, told The STAR Monday.

"Individually, we will support the country’s basketball programs but not necessarily gearing towards a merger. We’re committed to our contract with the UAAP and NCAA. It’s premature to expect an overnight merger," Musngi said.

The NCAA, however, remained hopeful of a merger.

"The NCAA is willing to sit down and discuss the possibility of playing with UAAP in the 2008 basketball season, which the SBP is proposing. But issues must be settled at the end of the month because that’s our deadline," said St. Benilde’s Henry Atayde, a member of the NCAA Management Committee.

But from ABS-CBN’s standpoint, the UAAP and NCAA are the two most popular leagues in the land. They’re doing quite well independent of each other.

"So let us not rock the boat," said Musngi.

The UAAP board held a meeting Monday in UST to discuss reports that have come out late last month about the possible "merger" between the UAAP and the NCAA.

For years, the UAAP had lent its players to national cause whenever called upon, but members of its board said that playing in a "combined" league with the NCAA would not really mean the discovery of new talents for the national cage team.

"And besides, we are also available to lend our players coming from other sports, not just basketball," De Sagon, who received a copy of the SBP proposal during the meeting, added.

Some members of the board confirmed that Gregorio did approach them late last year and broached on the idea of the UAAP and the NCAA schools playing against each other.

"But there was never any talk of a merger," said Dr. Sergio Cao, chancellor of the University of the Philippines which will be the UAAP host school next season.

News of the "merger" first appeared after Gregorio had talked to Cao about having both leagues play against each other to highlight the Centennial Celebration of the university this year.

Musngi suggested if UAAP and NCAA want to play together, they could use the Bantay Bata 163 UAAP-NCAA All Stars, held annually in the post season.

atenean_blooded
01-08-2008, 02:02 AM
From Business Mirror:




Merger shot down

By Joel Orellana
Reporter

THE University Athletic Association of the Philippines (UAAP) will not embrace the proposed merger with the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) because the 70-year-old league would primarily lose its identity.

And ABS-CBN is not as keen because of complexities revolving around its live contracts with both leagues.

While reiterating its continued commitment to supporting basketball development in the country, the UAAP, according to Season 70 president Fr. Emerito de Sagon of University of Santo Tomas, said that it is not ready to part with its tradition and merge with any other league.

“We are open to proposals of playing for a truly national championship because we have actually been doing that already,” de Sagon said. “And it should be held either before or after our season.”

“But for us to lose our identity, history and tradition as a league , I don’t think we [UAAP member-schools] are ready to part with that,” he stressed in a statement released yesterday after the UAAP board met at UST yesterday.

The UAAP, the statement furthered, had lent its players to national cause whenever called upon, but members of its board said that playing in a “combined” league with the NCAA would not really mean the discovery of new talents for the national cage team.

Basketball Association of the Philippines-Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas (BAP-SBP) executive director Patrick Gregorio raised the possible merger that would evolve into a grand collegiate league. He proposed that it be staged this year.

As for ABS-CBN, for the dream project to push through, a lot of things have to be considered especially because of the leagues’ live contracts with the broadcast company.

Peter Musngi, vice president for Manila Radio Division and Sports of ABS-CBN, said the network is willing to be part of the project but cautioned it is easier said than done.

“Having a full-blown tournament like this for this year presents problems that I think will make it very difficult to happen because both leagues have still contracts with ABS-CBN,” Musngi told the BusinessMirror.

Musngi said ABS-CBN is also not ready for this kind of event.

“The idea is very exciting but it really needs a lot of ground work. It won’t happen overnight,” Musngi furthered. He suggested that the BAP-SBP include other leagues in the country instead to make it a truly a national collegiate league in nature.

“If they want a true national league, why focus only on UAAP and NCAA? They must also include other leagues in the country,” said Musngi, who admitted that no one from the BAP-SBP has contacted or talked with them since the issue came out in newspapers late last year.

Musngi said that he had previous discussion with Gregorio a long time ago of the possibility of having a national collegiate basketball league but the later never mentioned the UAAP-NCAA merger.

The ABS-CBN top official stressed that the network will be committed to fulfill their obligations with the two leagues and will honor that until it expires.

“ABS-CBN played a major role in promoting collegiate basketball not only here but also abroad through our The Filipino Channel. I think we’ve done our part here and we will continue to do so,” said Musngi.

He furthered that discussions could be made for this UAAP and NCAA combined league after the contracts lapses with the giant network.

“We will support if they still want to continue this in the future. We are always here for the development of collegiate basketball in the country,” added Musngi.



[b]GREGORIO SAYS: WE ARE SINCERE

“SBP respects the opinion and concerns of both leagues. We agree that we have to protect the tradition of both the NCAA and the UAAP. Hindi po galing sa SBP ang word na “merger.” Yes, we can play before and after their championship series. Maraming pwedeng format. As a matter of fact, in our letter, we proposed a soft working title ‘Let’s play together in 2008?’ We will continue to reach out to the member-schools. We [also will] reach out to ABS-CBN, their media partner. We also want to support the Bantay Bata Foundation. Our intention is sincere.”

atenean_blooded
01-08-2008, 02:05 AM
From www.gmanews.tv


UAAP won't merge with NCAA
01/07/2008 | 09:37 PM

The University Athletic Association of the Philippines (UAAP) shot down the idea of merging with the the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) as part of the centennial celebration of the University of the Philippines (UP), according to a UAAP statement issued on Monday.

"We are open to proposals of playing for a truly national championship because we have actually been doing that already," UAAP president Fr. Ermito de Sagon, said. "And it should be held either before or after our season. But for us to lose our identity, history, and tradition as a league, I don't think we (UAAP member schools) are ready to part with that."

The UAAP board held a meeting on Monday at the University of Santo Tomas to discuss reports that have come out late in December about the possible "merger" of the UAAP and the NCAA.

De Sagon is also head of the UST athletics department.

The Samahang Basketbol ng PIlipinas through its executive director Patrick Gregorio also approached the UAAP and broached the idea of the UAAP and NCAA schools playing against each other.

Gregorio also approached Dr. Sergio Cao, University of the Philippines chancellor, with the idea of having both leagues play against each other to highlight the centennial celebration of the state school this year.

UP is hosting Season 71 of the UAAP this year.

After that talk between Gregorio and Cao, stories of the "merger" started circulating.

"But there was never any talk of a merger," Cao said. - GMANews.TV

AnthonyServinio
01-08-2008, 02:18 AM
From ABS-CBN.com/Philippine Star

Musngi suggested if UAAP and NCAA want to play together, they could use the Bantay Bata 163 UAAP-NCAA All Stars, held annually in the post season.


* * *A CLEAR case of loving your own!

* * *Noble as the objective of Bantay Bata may sound, I still feel it is a redundant tournament. *There should be only be one post-season tournament and it should be the Collegiate Champions League or any activity that the BAP-SBP will push in order to crown the true national college champion!

atenean_blooded
01-08-2008, 02:19 AM
From ABS-CBN.com/Philippine Star

Musngi suggested if UAAP and NCAA want to play together, they could use the Bantay Bata 163 UAAP-NCAA All Stars, held annually in the post season.


* * *A CLEAR case of loving your own!

* * *Noble as the objective of Bantay Bata may sound, I still feel it is a redundant tournament. *There should be only be one post-season tournament and it should be the Collegiate Champions League or any activity that the BAP-SBP will push in order to crown the true national college champion!


Agreed.

But isn't the problem with leagues like these, as has been stated here in several posts, that these events aren't treated "seriously?" ;D



Also, am I the only one who finds it a bit unusual that it took Gregorio this long to come out and start talking about the "soft title," and how the word "merger" came from the media and not him?

amdgc82
01-08-2008, 05:46 AM
http://www.journal.com.ph/index.php?issue=2008-01-08&sec=7&aid=45131
January 08, 2008 Tuesday

UAAP rejects merger *

WHILE reiterating its continued commitment to supporting basketball development in the country, the University Athletic Association of the Philippines yesterday said that it is not ready to part with its tradition and merge with any other league.
* *
“We are open to proposals of playing for a truly national championship because we have actually been doing that already,” University of Santo Tomas ’ Fr. Ermito de Sagon, the UAAP president, said. “And it should be held either before or after our season.
* *
“But for us to lose our identity, history and tradition as a league (by agreeing to a merger), I don’t think we (UAAP member schools) are ready to part with that.”
* *
The UAAP board held a meeting yesterday in UST to discuss reports that have come out late last month about the possible “merger” between the UAAP and the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA).
* *
For years, the UAAP had lent its players to national cause whenever called upon, but members of its board said that playing in a “combined” league with the NCAA would not really mean the discovery of new talents for the national cage team.
* *
“And besides, we are also available to lend our players coming from other sports, not just basketball,” de Sagon, who received a copy of the SBP proposal during the meeting, added.

Some members of the board confirmed that Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas executive director Patrick Gregorio did approach them late last year and broached on the idea of the UAAP and the NCAA schools playing against each other.
* *
“But there was never any talk of a merger,” said Dr. Sergio Cao, chancellor of the University of the Philippines which will be the UAAP host school next season.
* *
Stories of the “merger” first appeared after Gregorio had talked to Cao about having both leagues play against each other to highlight the Centennial Celebration of the university this year.

amdgc82
01-08-2008, 06:02 AM
http://www.manilatimes.net/national/2008/jan/08/yehey/sports/20080108spo4.html
Tuesday, January 08, 2008

UAAP not ready for ‘merger,’ says de Sagon

The University Athletic Association of the Philippines reiterated their continued commitment to support RP basketball but they are not ready to part with its tradition and merge with any other league.

UAAP President Fr. Ermito de Sagon of University of Santo Tomas said that they are open to proposals of playing for a truly national championship because they have actually been doing that already. “It should be held either before or after our season.”

“But for us to lose our identity, history and tradition as a league [by agreeing to a merger], I don’t think we [UAAP member schools] are ready to part with that,” de Sagon explained.

UAAP board members said that playing in a “combined” league with the NCAA would not really mean the discovery of new talents for the national cage team.

“And besides, we are also available to lend our players coming from other sports, not just basketball,” de Sagon, who received a copy of the SBP proposal during the UAAP board meeting yesterday, added.

Some UAAP board members confirmed that Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas executive director Patrick Gregorio did approach them late last year and broached on the idea of the UAAP and the NCAA schools playing against each other.

“But there was never any talk of a merger,” said Dr. Sergio Cao, chancellor of the University of the Philippines which will be the UAAP host school next season.
-- Ruben D. Manahan 4th

amdgc82
01-08-2008, 06:06 AM
http://www.tribune.net.ph/sports/20080108spo1.html

NO UAAP-NCAA COMBINE
Pato’s ‘merger’ baby a stillborn

01/08/2008

The National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) could not wait for long.

The University Athletic Association of the Philippines (UAAP), doesn’t want it.

And so, Patrick Gregorio’s proposal to merge the two leagues is dead.

The UAAP and the NCAA stopped Gregorio’s plans to propose a merger between them even before it could formally take off yesterday with the UAAP thumbing it down outright and the NCAA claiming it could no longer meet its own deadline for formal talks.

While reiterating its continued commitment to supporting basketball development in the country, the UAAP said it is not ready to part with its tradition and merge with other leagues.

“We are open to proposals of playing for a truly national championship because we have actually been doing that already,” University of Santo Tomas ’ Fr. Ermito de Sagon, the UAAP president, said. “And it should be held either before or after our season.

“But for us to lose our identity, history and tradition as a league (by agreeing to a merger), I don’t think we (UAAP member schools) are ready to part with that.”

The UAAP board held a meeting yesterday in UST to discuss reports that have come out late last month about the possible “merger” between the UAAP and the NCAA.

For years, the UAAP had lent its players to national cause whenever called upon, but members of its board said playing in a “combined” league with the NCAA would not really mean the discovery of new talents for the national cage team.

“And besides, we are also available to lend our players coming from other sports, not just basketball,” De Sagon, who received a copy of the Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas (SBP) proposal during the meeting, added.

The NCAA, meanwhile, said it never received a formal proposal about the merger, and that one should be made, it should meet their deadline on Jan. 30 before formal talks could begin. It is already too late for that.

“The NCAA is willing to sit down and discuss the possibility of playing with UAAP, but issues must be settled at the end of the month because that’s our deadline, said Henry Atayde of College of St. Benilde, who is a member of the NCAA management committee.

Some members of the UAAP board confirmed that Gregorio, the SBP executive director, approached them late last year and broached on the idea of the UAAP and the NCAA schools playing against each other.

“But there was never any talk of a merger,” said Dr. Sergio Cao, chancellor of the University of the Philippines which will be the UAAP host school next season.

Stories of the merger first appeared after Gregorio had talked to Cao about having both leagues play against each other to highlight the centennial celebration of the university this year.

Gregorio then sent text messages to members of the media claiming both leagues have “agreed in principle” to form the merger. He also said he was to present his concept paper to UP president Emerlinda Roman early this month “as a matter of formality.”

Yesterday, Gregorio claimed the word merger did not come from him. He said he only proposed for both leagues to “play together,” calling his program Let’s Play Together in 2008 a not so original idea as many UAAP vs. NCAA tournaments have been held in the past already.

gameface_one
01-08-2008, 08:10 AM
UAAP not ready to a super league


By JOEY VILLAR
The Philippine Star

The University Athletic Association of the Philippines (UAAP) on Monday turned down proposals for a merger of the country’s premier collegiate basketball leagues drawn up by the sport’s governing body in line with UP’s centennial celebration this year.

"We are open to proposals to play for a truly national championship because we have actually been doing that already," said UAAP president Fr. Ermito de Sagon of the University of Santo Tomas in a statement.

"And it should be held either before or after our season. But for us to lose our identity, history and tradition as a league (by agreeing to a merger, I don’t think we (UAAP member schools) are ready to part with that," he added.

BAP-SBP executive director Patrick Gregorio, however, clarified he never mentioned of the word "merger."

"I never spoke the word merger," Gregorio said. "In fact, my letter reads: Let’s play together in 2008. I’ve been saying that word merger was a media term. It never came from me."

Television giant ABS-CBN, which covers both the UAAP and the NCAA (National Collegiate Athletic Association), echoed the same sentiment.

"As far as merging both the UAAP and NCAA is concerned, it’s more complicated than it seems," Peter Musngi, a top honcho of ABS-CBN’s UHF channel Studio 23, told The STAR Monday.

"Individually, we will support the country’s basketball programs but not necessarily gearing towards a merger. We’re committed to our contract with the UAAP and NCAA. It’s premature to expect an overnight merger," Musngi said.

The NCAA, however, remained hopeful of a merger.

"The NCAA is willing to sit down and discuss the possibility of playing with UAAP in the 2008 basketball season, which the SBP is proposing. But issues must be settled at the end of the month because that’s our deadline," said St. Benilde’s Henry Atayde, a member of the NCAA Management Committee.

But from ABS-CBN’s standpoint, the UAAP and NCAA are the two most popular leagues in the land. They’re doing quite well independent of each other.

"So let us not rock the boat," said Musngi.

The UAAP board held a meeting Monday in UST to discuss reports that have come out late last month about the possible "merger" between the UAAP and the NCAA.

For years, the UAAP had lent its players to national cause whenever called upon, but members of its board said that playing in a "combined" league with the NCAA would not really mean the discovery of new talents for the national cage team.

"And besides, we are also available to lend our players coming from other sports, not just basketball," De Sagon, who received a copy of the SBP proposal during the meeting, added.

Some members of the board confirmed that Gregorio did approach them late last year and broached on the idea of the UAAP and the NCAA schools playing against each other.

"But there was never any talk of a merger," said Dr. Sergio Cao, chancellor of the University of the Philippines which will be the UAAP host school next season.

News of the "merger" first appeared after Gregorio had talked to Cao about having both leagues play against each other to highlight the Centennial Celebration of the university this year.

Musngi suggested if UAAP and NCAA want to play together, they could use the Bantay Bata 163 UAAP-NCAA All Stars, held annually in the post season.

Schortsanitis
01-08-2008, 08:12 AM
It's good that the UAAP board clarified that while they rejected the UAAP-NCAA merger, they said they are willing to play to a truly national championship. *

It probably means, they are willing to play in leagues like the CCL. *If that is the case, then they should be willing to have their top 4 teams mandatorily play in the CCL, at the end of the UAAP season.

batangueño
01-08-2008, 08:26 AM
Finally, the UAAP spoke up and finally affirmed Pato's idea as ludicrous. ;D

Schortsanitis
01-08-2008, 08:56 AM
I don't think the idea is ludicrous. I think it is a noble act, in the service of the country.

Nike Air
01-08-2008, 10:16 AM
Gawing mandatory na lang kasi yung pagkakaroon ng national champion so that seryosohin ito ng mga sasali sa CCL. If they want na gawing mas mahaba ito, they can even field as many as 32 teams if they want para mas malaki chances of Vis-Min schools to win the national title. Pato and his group should have a plan B in place to determine a national champion every year (if really he is noble and sincere with his intentions) since more likely na hindi na naman ito matutuloy.

john_paul_manahan
01-08-2008, 10:26 AM
the idea is good. let the SBP refine it. and make it national.

A-boy97
01-08-2008, 12:24 PM
Mga pards, kahit gawing mandatory ang pagsali ng mga UAAP and NCAA schools sa CCL pero kung lalangawin lang and hindi rin sesryosohin ng iba, walang silbi rin.* Sa nasabi ko nga sa mga posts ko dati, mahirap ma-sustain ang momentum and interest ng mga tao pagkatapos ng UAAP and NCAA basketball games since sa isip ng karamihan, tapos na ang season.

Sayang kasi yung mga taga-Visayas at mga schools na walang katulad na tv exposure sa UAAP at NCAA ay ganadong ganado maglaro.* Yung mga taga NCAA at UAAP naman, hindi na ganoon kataas ang energy level, mapa player man or crowd.* Hindi rin naman kasalanan nilang lahat yon dahil katatapos lang ng draining season ng UAAP at NCAA.

Sa mga taga-suporta naman, mahirap din naman biglang baguhin ang nakagawian na mahigit kumulang na 70taon sa UAAP at 80 taon sa NCAA.

Sana mabago ang ganitong mentalidad.* Sana mas ganado pa ang lahat ng schools, meaning players and community,* sa CCL kaysa sa mother leagues nila para makita talaga natin kung sino ang tunay na kampeon.

Nike Air
01-08-2008, 12:35 PM
Ang March Madness din balita ko ay nag-suffer din ng setbacks in terms of popularity during its initial stages bago ito tuluyang tanggapin ng mga tao. Tingin ko magiging ganito rin ito pag nakasanayan na.

oca
01-08-2008, 02:05 PM
It's good that the UAAP board clarified that while they rejected the UAAP-NCAA merger, they said they are willing to play to a truly national championship. *

It probably means, they are willing to play in leagues like the CCL. *If that is the case, then they should be willing to have their top 4 teams mandatorily play in the CCL, at the end of the UAAP season.


Hintayin natin ang susunod na event intended to declare a national champion. Tignan natin kung pangangatawan ba nila ang mga sinabi nila ngayon.

The vote was said to be unanimous, and with Fr. de Sagun speaking in his official capacity as current UAAP President, we take this to mean that ALL UAAP schools will give due respect to that event aimed at determining a national champion.

Pero masyadong presumptous ang pahayag na ito, kung patungkol rin lang sa isang national championship ang turing nila sa nasabing "merger".

As stated in my first post on this topic, ang Philippine varsity basketball ba ay nasa bakuran lamang ng UAAP at NCAA? They may dominate, but they don't own collegiate basketball.

Had they simply cited and stopped at "identity, history and tradition" for voting down the proposal, mahirap pulaan ang kanilang desisyon. Pero hindi, may pahabol pang kung ano.

Kaya hintayin ang susunod na CCL or CNC or if there will be another event the SBP will designate as the National Championships. Tignan natin kung ang salita ng mga ito ay may halaga.

Huwag nating marinig na they leave it to the member schools to decide if they want to join or not. Magkibit balikat if a UAAP school doesn't take the event seriously. Dahil kung magkagayon, papagtibayin lang nila ang opinion ng di kakaunti, na iyang kabuuan ng Board ay makasarili.

Dark Knight
01-08-2008, 04:42 PM
Why dont ABS-CBN cover the CCL/CNC to generate interest and popularity. Just like what they did with UAAP and NCAA. In this way, people will follow this league with the same intensity as with the UA and NC. It will really take a media giant to make a league popular.

All the collegiate leagues should sign a pact that they will allow their top 4 teams to join the CCL/CNC. This will determine the real champions among champions.

No NC/UA merger needed. ;D

Jaco D
01-08-2008, 05:23 PM
I tried turning it upside-down, inside-out: di ko pa rin ma gets what Pato means by "let's play together in 2008".

easter
01-08-2008, 06:26 PM
I tried turning it upside-down, inside-out: di ko pa rin ma gets what Pato means by "let's play together in 2008".


Which is a merger. Whether they play for just one year or for several years it is still a merger. Semantics lang yan.

The problem is that masyadong malaki kinikita ng UAAP that it is unthinkable for them to share it with a rival league. Plus masyadong malaki kinikita ng ABS-CBN to mess with a winning formula.

Iniisip ko din what is the benefit of such an arrangement to the Philippines winning international tournaments. Parang wala din.

a. You will not discover new talents kahit mag-merge.

b. Scheduling of the tournament will not mean availability of players in international tournaments since this will even make the college basketball season longer.

c. And if it is only for just one year, then wala talagang benefit. Why should the SBP mess around with this idea in the first place since it isn't part of the long-term basketball vision?

Schortsanitis
01-08-2008, 09:00 PM
The merger is supposed to be the start of something bigger, which will be a unified national collegiate tournament. By exposing the provincial & lesser school programs to the best competition the country, it hopefully will help drive the quality of basketball overall.

Right now, for example, the most famous players are from the UAAP & NCAA. Undoubtedly, there are a couple of good players out there outside these organizations (despite the heavy scouting), & one way for them to be exposed to the limelight, is by doing well against NCAA or UAAP teams in actual competitions.

Anyway, the UAAP board has said that it WILL SUPPORT A NATIONAL COLLEGIATE TOURNAMENT out there. Its not necessarily what I wanted to see, but if we can get AT LEAST that, then maybe it should be good enough for now.

jayverns
01-08-2008, 09:53 PM
IMO hindi naman kasi kailangan na mag-merge ng UAAP at NCAA, kasi tingin ko pwede pa namang maayos yung
CCL(format, marketing, tapos TV coverage including yung halftime) para maka-gain ng prestige. The UAAP and the NCAA could serve as qualifying tournaments para makasali dito, ok lang na ung final 4 ng both leagues ang kasali kasi ganun talaga limited lang dapat yung slots na available, even in the World Championships and the Olympics ganun din hindi lahat nabibigyan ng opportunity na makapaglaro kasi nga may qualification tournaments.

math01
01-08-2008, 11:06 PM
UAAP is saying na because of tradition and identity, panu yung ikauunlad ng philippine basketball itself diba? sayang. Edi CCL nalang sila concentrate.

Jaco D
01-09-2008, 12:28 AM
I tried turning it upside-down, inside-out: di ko pa rin ma gets what Pato means by "let's play together in 2008".


Which is a merger. Whether they play for just one year or for several years it is still a merger. Semantics lang yan.



My point exactly!* Pato saying it's the media that's been calling his initiative a "merger" is just plain bovine excreta.* If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, its has to be a duck (sorry, Pato).* The more I think about it the more I feel that this merger thing is more of a marketing initiative than something to uplift the quality of basketball in the country.* The CCL, though not perfect, is already in place to see who's the best among the best.* Why not just give the CCL more teeth and muscle to meet its purpose in life?* No need to re-invent the wheel - nandiyan na ito, kailangan lang ng konteng buli para kumintab.* The basketball powers-that-be should then spend more time and resources in more worthwhile endeavors like proper training of referees, grassroots development, etc.

amdgc82
01-09-2008, 06:45 AM
League control seen thorn to UAAP-NCAA merger
By Jasmine W. Payo
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 02:24am (Mla time) 01/09/2008

Control of the country’s varsity scene is shaping up to be a key concern of the UAAP, which shot down recently the plan of the BAP-Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas to merge the popular collegiate league with its counterpart from the NCAA.

Part of the language in the proposal for the unified league states that a new management must be formed to oversee the merged tournament.

Several UAAP officials labeled the plan as “unnecessary,” but executive director Patrick Gregorio clarified that the BAP-SBP does not aim to wrest control of the varsity scene.

“Let’s not second-guess what we mean,” said Gregorio.

The concept paper submitted to the UAAP board last Monday cited the formation of a new group that will include only three board members each from the UAAP and the NCAA and a representative from the BAP-SBP.

“It’s an ad hoc committee,” Gregorio pointed out.

“The only way we can sort this out is to talk. We hope that everyone will realize that our intentions are good. We will continue to reach out. It’s simply an open invitation to give us a chance to present our vision for our country’s basketball program.”

Other UAAP officials also suggested that the BAP-SBP work on an improved post-season tournament, instead.

“We had discussions that there will be no merger; but before or after the UAAP season, we can have a tournament that involves the schools of other leagues,” said Fr. Max Rendon, Adamson University’s representative to the UAAP board.

The league shunned the unprecedented plan to unify the country’s top two collegiate leagues in a board meeting presided by president Fr. Ermito de Sagon of host University of Santo Tomas last Monday.

Officials said the proposed union will lead to a longer tournament schedule that will likely disrupt the student-athletes’ education.

“That will be very problematic for our athletes,” said De Sagon.

“It will be more beneficial for everyone if they just improve the Champions League format that will increase the participation of more schools nationwide,” said Ateneo de Manila University’s Ricky Palou.

“A total merger creates a lot of problems on the schedule and the league rules. The rules on eligibility of the two leagues, for instance, are different.”

The Champions League is a post-season tournament that pits the top collegiate squads, including representatives from the Visayas and Mindanao, in a knockout system.

“Just come up with a (tournament) format,” suggested Anton Montinola of Far Eastern University. “Come up with a tournament that does not conflict with our schedule and where a lot of schools can participate. There’s no need to merge.”

Although Gregorio said the word “merger” never came from SBP, league officials said the words “fusion,” “combination” and “unification” stated in the concept paper meant the same.

“There’s a misinterpretation and we want to correct that impression,” said Gregorio.

He added that the UAAP’s decision had been relayed to BAP-SBP president Manny V. Pangilinan, who will return from Hong Kong on Thursday.

“We’re not bothered (with the rejection); we’re sincere in our offer, we just want to play together,” said Gregorio. “If he (MVP) has to reach out to the board and go to their respective schools, there’s no problem with him.”

BAP-SBP originally scheduled a “special meeting” among officials of the two leagues on Thursday at the PLDT office.

“The offer still stands,” said Gregorio.

NCAA officials, meanwhile, remained amenable to the proposal.

“We’ve been consistent with our statement that we’re open to talks,” said NCAA management committee chair Paul Supan of host Jose Rizal University. “We’ll sit down and discuss this possibility (of playing with the UAAP).”

amdgc82
01-09-2008, 06:53 AM
http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/01092008/sports01.html

Doomed from the start
By Rick Olivares
Columnist
WED JANUARY 9, 2008
*
I LIKE Patrick Gregorio’s enthusiasm. He’s got some great ideas on how to unify basketball and push it right through the stratosphere. But any time there’s change, it’s a frightening move from the familiar to the unfamiliar. And those who live in the status quo are wary of young turks like Gregorio, who they liken to stealing their thunder. It’s a natural reaction. And right from the start, this proposal was doomed.

We spoke to quite a few basketball officials in the last few days and, while all of them like the idea, they had one thing to say.

The manner of how Gregorio went about promoting the idea was done in poor taste. Rather than put it on the table for discussion, he took it to the court of public opinion…through the media. Although he did speak with several people, some of them think that he did not heed their advice about taking it slowly and not revealing it to the media, which would jeopardize the whole idea. Some even from his alma mater thought that he was “grandstanding” with his big talk. Some opined that if the proposal was shot down by one party, in the eyes of the public they would be deemed as a “spoil sport.”

For the University Athletic Association of the Philippines (UAAP), some board members were slighted about not being consulted. There are schools that chafe and bristle at all the hoopla that Ateneo and La Salle receives and having asked the opinion of representatives of the two elite schools certainly did not augur well for Gregorio. The UAAP is an old guy’s club (with all due respect to Mrs. Felicitas Francisco and Dr. Arlyne Royo). I don’t like some of their policies that I have always lambasted as Jurassic and self-serving. It is only but natural they will close ranks on this one.

Think about it, had the “merger” happened, it would only help the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA), not the UAAP. In terms of viewership and sales, the UAAP trumps the senior circuit anytime. The certified crowd drawers are San Beda and Letran, but even so, the NCAA games are played on weekdays because, according to a policy board member, they will lose the students during the weekend.

And there’s the serious matter of eligibility. One reason for the shift in the balance of power in interleague play is that the NCAA has less stringent entrance rules. Have they even cleaned up the PCU Philippine Christian University (PCU) and College of Saint Benilde (CSB) mess? Whatever happened to that anyway? An investigation was even conducted into the infractions of PCU’s senior division that ,when coupled with the cheating in the junior ranks, might even be enough to warrant expulsion. So now they’re sweeping things under the rug just like that and welcoming the Dolphins back to the fold. And what happened to the game-fixing problem of that CSB player?* After that press conference by the (National Bureau of Investigation), nothing more was heard of this. I know that a gag order was issued by the school authorities but what gives? So typical of Filipino culture that we’re even willing to forgive and forget, yet when laws are violated again we complain and fret.

If the two leagues played together and got the same exposure, then there’s no way the UAAP schools will be able to recruit from the NCAA junior ranks. Why should players transfer now when they’ll get the same media mileage?

And for the schools that are in the lower tier in the rankings, does it follow that they would fall down even further? Some UP alumni joked that the Maroons wouldn’t be ranked No. 8 but No. 16.

From a basketball fan’s standpoint, the “merger” is a fantastic idea. From a business point of view, it’s not. When the NCAA came knocking at the doors of Solar Sports several years ago about transferring from Studio 23, the cable giant’s sales force was concerned about the ability to sell the league. “If the NCAA isn’t exactly raking in sponsorships, how much more if it’s the Champions League. In the minds of the corporate world, the UAAP is a more viable vehicle for advertising,” says a top sales executive of the cable channel.

ABS-CBN also said that there has yet to be a formal proposal tendered. Everything that has been discussed is nothing more than informal chit chat and on the side. The first two months of the year are usually low in terms of corporate expenditure, as the bulk of it was spent during the holiday season while the new fiscal year’s budgets are being finalized (if it hasn’t been done so). Contrary to what people may say, there is a finite amount of adspend for sports. Much of it just gets reallocated from some ventures to big events. With at least two fights expected from Manny Pacquiao this year and the upcoming Olympic Games, placement planning is already being prepared.*

The “merger” theoretically can be done if everyone put their heads together. There is the matter of scheduling, the number of events to be played, venues and the prime concern of the yearly hosts. A couple from both leagues will be celebrating their anniversaries in the next few seasons. What will that mean for a merged league?

With respective interests at stake and a lot of groundwork that needs doing, if it does ever take off it won’t be for another year.

The SBP would have been better served had it gone out to say that it intended to build the Champions League as the true national championship. They should have arranged the competition calendar and built it up for the Champions League that is the end all of college basketball competition.

Maybe the winner could have gone on to represent the country (beefed up with a few imports from other teams) to the Universiade Games. Maybe the winner could be sent on all-expenses-paid trip to some big-time basketball camp and receive a trophy that is similar to the Stanley Cup, but never a cash prize. If they are hell-bent on matches between UAAP and NCAA teams, then they might want to take a cue from Major League Baseball’s Interleague play.

Maybe this could happen during the elimination round of the basketball season when schools can play at most two games with teams from the other league and where the wins and losses count in the final standings (think of how cool this could be).

As it is, they dropped the ball on this, short of declaring that the UAAP and the NCAA are still a cut above every other competition. But this is the Philippines, the other leagues will feel slighted but when you ask them to join the sandbox, they’ll come out and play. After all, we are always willing to forgive.

amdgc82
01-09-2008, 06:56 AM
http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/01092008/sports02.html

Superleague will have its time, says Gregorio
By Joel Orellana
Reporter
WED JANUARY 9, 2008
*
THE Basketball Association of the Philippines-Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas (BAP-SBP) will be unrelenting in pursuing what it calls as the dream or grand collegiate league.

Patrick Gregorio, the BAP-SBP executive director, said this after the University Athletic Association of the Philippines (UAAP) shot down the proposal for it to merge with the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) in a grand collegiate league.

“We’ll be patient. Wala naman tayong isyung pinagtatalunan dito,” Gregorio said.

The UAAP, in its board meeting the other day, formally said no to the proposal, stressing a merger with the NCAA would result to the loss of its history, image and tradition.

ABS-CBN, through Peter Musngi, its vice president for Manila Radio Division and Sports, made a similar stand on the proposal as it stressed on technicalities revolving around the live contracts it has with both leagues.

The NCAA has yet to officially announce its stand, although with UAAP backing out, the proposal is dead.

And in hindsight, Gregorio said the BAP-SBP did not use the term “merger” in the proposal. He made such clarifications when the BusinessMIrror broke the news in its December 28 issue.

“Wala naman kaming sinasabing ‘merger’ when we proposed it to the two leagues. Siguro lack of better word ng mga kaibigan natin sa media kaya nagamit ang word na ‘merger,’” Gregorio said.

Gregorio said they are not losing hope. “In fact, BAP-SBP president Manny V. Pangilinan talked to me last Monday and gave me the go signal to continue reaching out to the schools,” he said.

“Sabi ni MVP, kung kailangan puntahan ang mga schools, gawin ko dahil wala namang masama sa ginagawa natin,” he said. “Ginagawa natin ito to rationalize the programs of the SBP in the country.”

Gregorio also clarified the SBP did not make the proposal to glorify his alma mater, the University of the Philippines, which will host Season 71 of the UAAP simultaneously with its centennial celebration.

“Wala po tayong vested interest dito. In fact, two years ago pa ito pinaplano nina coach Joe Lipa at Mr. Rey Gamboa [both UP alumni] ang magkaroon ng isang liga,” said Gregorio.

“Because the reason really here is to rationalize our programs because that’s our job in the SBP and help the schools with their sports programs,” he added.

Gregorio said an alternative could be the staging of a pre-season or postseason tournament for the schools of both leagues.

amdgc82
01-09-2008, 07:19 AM
http://www.mb.com.ph/SPRT20080109113892.html

SBP reiterates call to UAAP, NCAA
By WAYLON GALVEZ
Wednesday, January 9, 2008

SAMAHANG BASKETBOL ng Pilipinas (SBP) executive director Patrick Gregorio clarified yesterday no "merger" was mentioned in their invitation letter to discuss the possibility of having collegiate leagues NCAA and UAAP play together in the 2008 basketball season.

"The word "merger" was never mentioned, even in our informal talks with some school officials from both the NCAA and the UAAP," Gregorio told the Bulletin.

"In our letter to them (NCAA and UAAP), the title is ‘Let’s Play Together in 2008?’ We just want to discuss the possibility," he added

The other day, the SBP, led by its president, telecommunications mogul Manny V. Pangilinan, forwarded the letters to outgoing NCAA Policy Board president Vincent Fabella of Jose Rizal University and incoming president Reynaldo Vea of Mapua, current UAAP board president Fr. Ermito de Sagon, O.P. of UST and UP Chancellor Sergio Cao.

However, the UAAP board issued a statement saying that they are not interested in merging with the NCAA and reportedly will not attend the SBP meeting.

"We are open to proposals of playing for a truly national championship because we have actually been doing that already," de Sagon said. "But for us to lose our identity, history and tradition as a league (by agreeing to a merger), I don’t think we (UAAP member schools) are ready to part with that."

The meeting is set either tomorrow or Friday at the PLDT Office of Pangilinan.

Because of the reports that the UAAP is having second thoughts on the possibility, Gregorio said that they will continue to "reach out to these schools" to make this dream ‘tournament’ a reality.

"That’s the instruction of MVP, continue to reach out," Gregorio added.

As for the NCAA, Management Committee (MANCOM) chairman Paul Supan said that the country’s oldest collegiate league remains open to discussion.

"We’ve been consistent with our statement that we’re open to talks," Supan said. "We’ll sit down and discuss this (playing with UAAP) possibility. If the SBP will call a meeting, we will attend."

The possibility of having the two leagues playing together first cropped up late last year when Gregorio had a discussion with Cao in time of the State University’s celebration of its Centennial Anniversary.

amdgc82
01-09-2008, 07:25 AM
http://www.tribune.net.ph/sports/20080109spo2.html

‘We learned merger through media’
01/09/2008

Patrick Gregorio’s attempt to merge the country’s two largest collegiate leagues was headed for doom right from the start.

This was believed by basketball officials who claimed they were not consulted by Gregorio, executive director of the Basketball Association of the Philippines-Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas, about his plan to “merge” or “play together” the University Athletic Association of the Philippines (UAAP) and the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA).

A member of the UAAP board clarfied Gregorio never sought their views regarding their possible fusion with the NCAA, saying “the (media) reports caught us unaware.”

The source concluded that apparently, Gregorio only issued a series of press releases about the “merger” even before before informing his boss, BAP-SBP president Manny Pangilinan, about his plan.

Thinking that everything has been ironed out, Pangilinan endorsed the proposal, only to be rejected by the UAAP board, led by University of Santo Tomas ’ Fr. Ermito de Sagon. The source said it will not come as a surprise if Gregorio gets reprimanded by his superiors for coming out with a very premature declaration.

In his previous statements, Gregorio claimed he already had held exploratory talks with incoming hosts University of the Philippines’ Sergio Cao of UAAP and Mapua Institute of Technology’s Dr. Reynaldo Vea of NCAA about the possible combine of the basketball season which will be held in time for UP’s centennial anniversary celebration.

He said since both Cao and Vea are UP alumni, putting them on the same page was quite easy. He also said now that they both “agreed in principle,” he is now ready to present an official concept paper to UP chancellor Emerlinda Roman to formally seal the pact.

But the source claimed in their board meeting the other day that Cao strongly denied sealing a deal with Gregorio. He agreed with the majority decision to remain independent for the sake of “UAAP identity, history and tradition.”

“His plan (of merging us with the NCAA) is very impossible. It’s not as easy as it sounds,” the source said, requesting anonymity. “He should have talked to us one by one first before coming out with a story publicizing that we already agreed. We can merge with the NCAA in one tournament, but we’re not yet ready to disrupt our current official calendar.”

Gregorio, meanwhile, could not be reached. He was said to be joining the UP campus celebration of the state university ’s centennial party.

Mateen Cleaves
01-09-2008, 07:34 AM
http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/01092008/sports02.html
...

Gregorio also clarified the SBP did not make the proposal to glorify his alma mater, the University of the Philippines, which will host Season 71 of the UAAP simultaneously with its centennial celebration.

“Wala po tayong vested interest dito. In fact, two years ago pa ito pinaplano nina coach Joe Lipa at Mr. Rey Gamboa [both UP alumni] ang magkaroon ng isang liga,” said Gregorio.

“Because the reason really here is to rationalize our programs because that’s our job in the SBP and help the schools with their sports programs,” he added.


More than two years no po yung plano nila coach Lipa. Hindi lang plano. Medyo pabugso-bugso pa, pero tumatakbo na. It's called the Champions' League!

Pangalawa, hindi naman kasi trabaho ng SBP pakialaman ang mga collegiate sports programs. The schools are well capable of taking care of their own programs. Respect the schools and the leagues as partners/stakeholders, and they might just help SBP with its real job.

oca
01-09-2008, 08:30 AM
Sa isang tulad ko na very active sa CCL thread sa forum na ito at very vocal sa supporta sa CCL, I find it strange that bukang bibig ang CCL sa dahilan ng hindi pag sang-ayon sa "merger".

I just hope that when the next edition of the CCL comes around, Collegiate National Championships (CNC) na yata ang tawag nila, bukang-bibig pa rin ito ng mga nagbabanggit ngayon.

Yung mga pinagsasabi nila ngayon, dapat tumbasan ng aksyon pagdating ng panahon na iyon!

Aksyon na suporta, hindi yung pintas at pagbabalewala sa CNC.

gfy
01-09-2008, 08:44 AM
I was thinking all leagues could follow the collegiate basketball schedule in the US NCAA. Start in the middle of the first term or semester (correct me if I'm wrong) continuing into the early second term or semester culminating in the March Madness. This way hindi masyado "hectic" ang sked at mag-conflict sa October exams. Start in September, for example (yun mga freshmen pwede pa mag-adjust). Tapos ang championships for each league mga January at ang CCL in February.

oca
01-09-2008, 08:58 AM
I was thinking all leagues could follow the collegiate basketball schedule in the US NCAA. Start in the middle of the first term or semester (correct me if I'm wrong) continuing into the early second term or semester culminating in the March Madness. This way hindi masyado "hectic" ang sked at mag-conflict sa October exams. Start in September, for example (yun mga freshmen pwede pa mag-adjust). Tapos ang championships for each league mga January at ang CCL in February.


Tulad ng "merger", mahirap mangyari yang baguhin ang calendar.

The revenues/income from the basketball event is used by the host to finance the other events.

As it is, to be a* host is to book an expense in holding all the events in the calendar. Yung konting kinita sa basketball goes a long way in addressing the financial aspect of hosting.

Kaya basketball ang ipipilit nilang unang event.

Schortsanitis
01-09-2008, 09:05 AM
League control seen thorn to UAAP-NCAA merger
By Jasmine W. Payo
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 02:24am (Mla time) 01/09/2008


'Buti naman,' that the UAAP Board explained better their decision, AND REITERATED THEIR SUPPORT FOR A NATIONAL COLLEGIATE TOURNAMENT.

To me, this means that the SBP-BAP should now concentrate on finding ways to give the CCL more teeth.

Shift focus 'na muna' to that, 'tutal sabi ng UAAP na amenable sila sa ganun. Saka na iyong merger ng UAAP-NCAA, put it in the backburner, its now time to see if we can salvage a stronger CCL.

'Problema lang, baka ang NCAA na naman ang umangal nyan, as in, kami rin papansin.'

:lol: :lol: :lol:

'Di naman siguro.'

GHRanger
01-09-2008, 10:01 AM
IMO, Pato is working around semantics -- which gives me the impression of an urong sulong type of leadership (hopefully not.) If indeed he had not meant it to be a "merger", then he should have corrected it even before all the media hoopla. He wanted to make it as a showcase for UP's centennial but somewhere in between it got lost.

Honestly, I'd like to see a superbody handle the leagues (in terms of Eligibility, Refereeing, Disputes, Protests, Rules & Reviews, Season Post Mortem reviews, etc.) For now, day to day ops will be handled by their respective organizers. We can probably start from there. This will put the right people in the position of managing the technical aspect of basketball or any other sport.

I think that the CCL/CNC is the right direction. BUT, the impression that the CNC/CCL has given me is that it's more of a money making marketing ploy. Bracketing, Seeding, Which teams to invite, How many teams to invite, Wild Cards is as crystal clear as the Pasig River. If the SBP can adopt this league as its own and standardize the seeding, brackets, team selection, then this will go a long way. Simple lang naman sa akin top 2 teams of each league with more than 6 members, random bracketing (like FIBA), round robin, crossovers, knock out quarts, semis, finals.

Heck, nilangaw nga yung first 3-4 years ng Superbowl diba? Ganyan talaga.

Schortsanitis
01-09-2008, 10:12 AM
Just for the record, though, but depending on the format, I don't think the proposed merger will result in MUCH longer tournament than it is now.*

** There are 8 teams each in the UAAP & NCAA.* Each league uses a double round robin elimination format.* That means 14 games for the season for each team.

** If the merged league uses a SINGLE ROUND ROBIN INTER DIVISION & SINGLE ROUND ROBIN INTRA DIVISION format, then that means each team will play a total of 15 games.* That is only 1 additional game per team.

** Of course, that means a total of an additional 16 games for the merged league compared to a typical UAAP or NCAA season.* However, at 2 games per playing day, 4 playing days per week, that means only an additional 2 WEEKS for the merged league compared to the a typical UAAP or NCAA season.

atenean_blooded
01-09-2008, 10:52 AM
More than two years no po yung plano nila coach Lipa. Hindi lang plano. Medyo pabugso-bugso pa, pero tumatakbo na. It's called the Champions' League!

Exactly. ;D



Pangalawa, hindi naman kasi trabaho ng SBP pakialaman ang mga collegiate sports programs. The schools are well capable of taking care of their own programs. Respect the schools and the leagues as partners/stakeholders, and they might just help SBP with its real job.


Agreed. They should focus on grass-roots development, training of officials, etc., as pointed out by some members of this thread.

Dark Knight
01-09-2008, 01:16 PM
And for the schools that are in the lower tier in the rankings, does it follow that they would fall down even further? Some UP alumni joked that the Maroons wouldn’t be ranked No. 8 but No. 16.




Exactly one of my point. ;D

A-boy97
01-09-2008, 02:14 PM
** There are 8 teams each in the UAAP & NCAA.* Each league uses a double round robin elimination format.* That means 14 games for the season for each team.

** If the merged league uses a SINGLE ROUND ROBIN INTER DIVISION & SINGLE ROUND ROBIN INTRA DIVISION format, then that means each team will play a total of 15 games.* That is only 1 additional game per team.



Pards, maraming di papayag diyan lalo na ABS-CBN! That means 1 sure game lang ang Ateneo-la salle! hihina ang kita at ratings! ;D ;D ;D

Schortsanitis
01-09-2008, 02:22 PM
Pards, maraming di papayag diyan lalo na ABS-CBN!* That means 1 sure game lang ang Ateneo-la salle! hihina ang kita at ratings! ;D ;D ;D


'Malakas rin naman siguro yung SBC-ADMU. Tsaka andyan naman yung SBC-CSJL.'

A-boy97
01-09-2008, 02:31 PM
College basketball is all about prestige. *There maybe money, recruiting, etc., etc. but all these things revole around prestige. *The idea of a merger sounds great because there is more prestige involved... two established leagues having 1 champion.

If the CCL or CNC is the answer to a collegiate national champion, then how do we make the CCL or CNC champion more prestigious than the UAAP and NCAA champion?

Para sa akin, ayos lang kahit walang merger at palakasin na lang ang CCL or CNC pero paano natin mapapalakas ito? *Tingin ko kasi(sana walang magalit *;D) mas madali ang merger kaysa sa palakasin ang CCL or CNC dahil may sagot na agad sa importansya ng korona.

A-boy97
01-09-2008, 02:40 PM
'Malakas rin naman siguro yung SBC-ADMU.* Tsaka andyan naman yung SBC-CSJL.'



I hope so pards! I really can't agree or disagree since it has been almost 30 years since Ateneo and San Beda faced each other in competitive basketball.

However, Ateneo-la salle is a certified blockbuster, in terms of attendance, viewership and the like. It may sound conceited but sometimes an Ateneo-la salle match-up is even bigger than the championship itself.

Peace!

easter
01-09-2008, 04:04 PM
I think that the CCL/CNC is the right direction. BUT, the impression that the CNC/CCL has given me is that it's more of a money making marketing ploy. Bracketing, Seeding, Which teams to invite, How many teams to invite, Wild Cards is as crystal clear as the Pasig River. If the SBP can adopt this league as its own and standardize the seeding, brackets, team selection, then this will go a long way. Simple lang naman sa akin top 2 teams of each league with more than 6 members, random bracketing (like FIBA), round robin, crossovers, knock out quarts, semis, finals.


And I think this is where the CCL/CNC should really improve on if they are ever to be taken seriously and will be regarded with much anticipation by basketball fans. Mas simple ito kesa magbuo ng isa na namang league.

5FootCarrot
01-09-2008, 05:16 PM
Just a parenthetical remark:






'Malakas rin naman siguro yung SBC-ADMU.* Tsaka andyan naman yung SBC-CSJL.'



I hope so pards!* I really can't agree or disagree since it has been almost 30 years since Ateneo and San Beda faced each other in competitive basketball.*

That's not true. The Ateneo-San Beda rivalry continues to exist, at least in the hardcore leagues (at present). In fact, Ateneo and San Beda competed against each other for the FMC3 championship just last year.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

easter
01-09-2008, 06:05 PM
Siguro Carrot ibig sabihin ni A-boy97 "big time" and big media" basktball game ang matagal nang hindi nalalaro ng Ateneo vs SBC.

bulon1122
01-09-2008, 11:04 PM
ayusin nalang CNC...Philippine Collegiate National Championship 2008

1) UAAP Final 4, NCAA Final 4, and Champions of other Collegiate leagues in other region will be mandatory to join. Hindi Invitational. Sabi ng UAAP na tutulong daw sila and will support the national basketball.

2) Ok lang Basketball TV mag cover pero mas maganda STUDIO 23 magcover or any National television, para makakanood lahat pati yung sa mga provinces na walang cable. Its a national thing. Ok ito dahil mas ok ang market kung national tv talaga. Mas Prestige ika nga. Sana talaga studio 23...ok coverage nila and maganda ang quality.

3) Para ok din at prestigious talaga, dapat ang champion hindi pera kundi Trophy na maganda nalang, training sa US all expense paid and Champion team will be the representative in the World University Games (National Pride). Diba yun ang goal ng SBP.

4) Sana maschedule nilang mabuti, maganda siguro last week of October or 1st week of november...para yung momentum ng each team nandian pa.

5) Yearly nilang gawin.

Sana kung may makakabasa dito na may link sa SBP or Pato Gregorio, and MVP...sabihin sa kanila!

Sana magkaisa tayo...ito ay para sa lahat!

tigerman
01-09-2008, 11:18 PM
I wonder why this red-blooded being named pulang_leon is putting the blame to UST as to the UAAP's rejection of the merger proposal.

Just a thought.





USTE LO MEJOR!
VIVA SANTO TOMAS!

mighty_lion
01-10-2008, 12:55 AM
^ Im not sure what post you are referring to. Kung sa Pex yan, dont take it seriously. Ang dami nilang naglalabasang ganyan flaming things all through-out. Lately lang meron nanaman bagong wala na namang ginawang matino kundi magsimula ng away. Ganun talaga sa Pex your free pretend and bash at will.

jayverns
01-10-2008, 01:11 AM
haaay...parang nai-imagine ko na ang sitwasyon ngayon sa PEX... lalo na't may thread na katulad nito blah blah blah

oops sorry! balik na sa topic.

john_paul_manahan
01-10-2008, 03:44 AM
what the sbp should do is standardize all eligibility requirements that all collegiate leagues can conform to.

the CNC / CCL is a start. let's add teeth to it.

amdgc82
01-10-2008, 06:01 AM
http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/01102008/sports02.html
THU JANUARY 10, 2008

Salvaging a dream
By Rick Olivares
Columnist
*
Manuel V. Pangilinan, president of the Basketball Association of the Philippines-Samahang Basketball ng Pilipinas (BAP-SBP), has reportedly called for a lunch meeting tomorrow with board representatives of the University Athletic Association of the Philippines (UAAP) and the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA).

It’s nothing more than a simple lunch, said one board member who wished to be anonymous. But the speculation is that the failed proposal for a “super league” between the two oldest collegiate athletic associations will be brought up.

BAP-SBP executive director Patrick Gregorio in an e-mail to this writer said: “Gusto lang namin makipag-usap hindi lang sa NCAA at UAAP, pati sa lahat ng gumagawa ng liga sa Pilipinas. One basketball program, that is our dream.”

Gregorio also cited online polls as being overwhelmingly positive for the creation of a “super league.”

Unfortunately, many in the basketball community feel that Gregorio instead polarized the basketball community by taking his proposals to the public as opposed to initially sitting down with the bodies and persons concerned.

“The groundwork for such an endeavor is daunting. While it normally takes at least a year in planning,” said one UAAP board member. “A lot has to be discussed. There is a calendar of events to be followed. Any new introductions normally are put off until the following year. What he [Gregorio] should have done was make a formal presentation. As it is, he spoke with some people and probably misconstrued their liking the idea as immediately [implementable]. Everyone concerned was only hearing of things through the newspapers or hearsay.”

Sources within the University of the Philippines community confirm this. When Chancellor Sergio Cao met with Gregorio, it was nothing more than an informal discussion of the school’s centennial plans. There was no mention of any blueprint for a “super league,” a merger or a fusion of the two associations whatsoever.

I solicited feedback from the National Capital Region Athletic Association and one representative said “we don’t really discuss it since hindi naman kami kasali. But I don’t think it will prosper. I don’t think they (BAP-SBP) went about it the right way.”*

With similar sentiments and their own interests at stake, the UAAP last Monday shot down the proposal through a unanimous 8-0 vote. Media partner ABS-CBN likewise said that no proposal was brought forth to them whatsoever and that they weren’t ready for any merger within a short time span.

But Gregorio says the SBP is not giving up on putting up their proposal, “All we ask is for a chance to present ourselves. Maganda ’to. Promise,” he said.

Hopefully this time around they’ll do it the right way.

amdgc82
01-10-2008, 06:22 AM
http://www.tribune.net.ph/sports/20080110spo4.html

Gregorio still hopeful on UAAP-NCAA merger
By Julius Manicad
01/10/2008

Nobody wants it, but BAP-Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas (SBP) executive director Patrick “Pato” Gregorio could still work out the merger between the University Athletic Association of the Philippines (UAAP) and the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA).

Yet, he is staying away from calling it a merger after the UAAP and some officials of the NCAA rejected his overtures to “diffuse, combine and unite” both leagues he wants playing under one roof.

In fact, Gregorio yesterday claimed he wants to open a dialog with officials of both leagues to resuscitate his dead proposal.

Gregorio floated his idea of a merger only through the media late last year but submitted his formal proposal to both leagues only recently.

Gregio claimed to have the support of BAP-SBP president Manny V. Pangilinan (MVP). Yet, dropping Pangilinan’s name did not work its usual magic with the stakeholders from the country’s top two collegiate leagues.

The UAAP bluntly rejected Gregorio’s proposal and said it wanted to keep the “identity, history and tradition,” of the league.

But Gregorio claimed the idea of “uniting” the two biggest collegiate bodies is still active and he is set to review all suggestions raised by the UAAP board to devise a more acceptable proposal.

He also said the UAAP’s outright rejection could still be a blessing in disguise because it gave him the idea that there are still gaping holes left unplugged.

“We will try to set a formal presentation very soon. At least nawala na ang apprehensions at mga agam-agam,” a highly optimistic Gregorio said in a text message to the Tribune. “Yes, we hope and pray that we could all sit down and brainstorm how we can really play together. And I am saying this not only as the executive director, but as one of the millions of Filipino basketball fanatics.”

Gregorio is initially set to present his concept paper to UP president Emerlinda Roman either today or tomorrow.

A UAAP board member, however, blasted Gregorio’s statement, and even claimed Gregorio’s letter to the UAAP board, used the words “diffuse, combine and unite,” leading them to believe Gregorio is eyeing a merger between them and the NCAA.

“Let me just clarify that we are not after the merger. Let’s not use the word “merger” anymore,” Gregorio said.

“Tuloy naman ang informal na usapan, wala pa lang formal schedule. MVP (BAP-SBP president Manny Pangilinan) said he will reach out. Maganda din naman yung lumabas na suggestions. All well taken. I guess it’s time for SBP to fine tune the plan taking into consideration the input of the two stakeholders.”

Schortsanitis
01-10-2008, 09:04 AM
haaay...parang nai-imagine ko na ang sitwasyon ngayon sa PEX... lalo na't may thread na katulad nito blah blah blah

oops sorry! balik na sa topic.




'Ansaya-saya. Mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha.'

tigerman
01-10-2008, 10:19 AM
^ Im not sure what post you are referring to. Kung sa Pex yan, dont take it seriously. Ang dami nilang naglalabasang ganyan flaming things all through-out.* Lately lang meron nanaman bagong wala na namang ginawang matino kundi magsimula ng away. Ganun talaga sa Pex your free pretend and bash at will.


Sir, I don't mean to generalize the bedans but this pulang_leon irritates the hell out of me.

Here's the proof.

Sa pagka-basa ko sa news, parang takot ang UST to lose their identity to the NCAA. This "merger" for one year will benefit more most of the NCAA teams and the benefits of this "merger" to the NCAA has more weight than to the UAAP. Maybe to some UAAP, like if some rivalry in the NCAA is re-lit, UST isn't blessed with such back in the NCAA even in the UAAP. Actually, they could have some rivalry in the UAAP with UP, pero problema, hindi naman manalo-nalo ang UP ever since.. hehe. People have mentioned "egos" will be the big problem about this "merger" and they were right from the start. MVP was also right when he mentioned that some people are afraid of it, afraid to share their fame or to give other teams who might be more talented any limelight... they don't understand that the "merger" will DEVELOPE players to be more skilled.. there's no problem about sharing their players, i don't even know why they mentioned that... imagine if the NCAA in the USA only have 8 teams, and you have to really compete only with the 8 teams and be on exhibition games with the rest which you don't have to take seriously.. and not in the hundreds in competition to be the best.. u think the NBA players who came from their NCAA with members in the thousands of schools will be as good? compared to just 8? that's what MVP was talking about.. for the development of our players to be highly competitive.. mga excuses lang yan ng UAAP.. UAAP isn't ready they said.. UAAP members are smart and I'm sure they understand exactly what MVP's vision... but of course they are not ready, one has to be matured like the US NCAA people to think more about the development of their fellow Americans to be the best.. and not to think of their own interests... Americans are that patriotic.. The IVY LEAGUE (which includes Harvard, Yale, Penn, etc.) can have their own league and I couldn't think of any group of schools that can really compete with them in terms of being "famous" even other US NCAA teams can be better than them in basketball... anyway.. i guess it isn't time for us in the Philippines.. like it isn't time for us to have a really decent president.. time will come when we will have matured people running our country and our leagues.. maybe by then, they will see what MVP and the UP are talking about...

For now, tiisin muna natin mga utak-talanka... and keep fighting them off, not to let them keep bringing us all down... good job for UP for trying and seeing SBP's vision.. i'm sure SBP's vision will be realized by better people.. not this year though... :-)


source: http://pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327092&page=11



USTE LO MEJOR!
VIVA SANTO TOMAS!

Dark Knight
01-10-2008, 10:27 AM
Heres what SBP, Pato, MVP and co. should do first.

Since NCAA is willing, they should merge or "unite" first the NCAA, NCRAA, UCAA, NAASCU, SCUAA...even the leagues from Visyas and Mindanao. Just leave UAAP at the moment.

When they succesfully merge all the collegiate leagues (except UAAP) and it became succesful, the UAAP will be isolated and will feel that they are being left out ad realize they should prove to everyone that they are the best by eventually joining the newly established "super league".

No man is an island ika nga ;D

Schortsanitis
01-10-2008, 10:33 AM
Heres what SBP, Pato, MVP and co. should do first.

Since NCAA is willing, they should merge or "unite" first the NCAA, NCRAA, UCAA, NAASCU, SCUAA...even the leagues from Visyas and Mindanao. Just leave UAAP at the moment.

When they succesfully merge all the collegiate leagues (except UAAP) and it became succesful, the UAAP will be isolated and will feel that they are being left out ad realize they should prove to everyone that they are the best by eventually joining the newly established "super league".

No man is an island ika nga ;D



I was thinking about the same thing also.

But such a project will likely take YEARS to bore frutuition. Initially, it might even hit some snags. But If the SBP-BAP is willing to invest for such a long time, then why not? Am sure the SBP-BAP is already mulling this as among the "possibiliities" .....

Schortsanitis
01-10-2008, 10:38 AM
Sir, I don't mean to generalize the bedans but this pulang_leon irritates the hell out of me.

Here's the proof.

Sa pagka-basa ko sa news, parang takot ang UST to lose their identity to the NCAA. This "merger" for one year will benefit more most of the NCAA teams and the benefits of this "merger" to the NCAA has more weight than to the UAAP. Maybe to some UAAP, like if some rivalry in the NCAA is re-lit, UST isn't blessed with such back in the NCAA even in the UAAP. Actually, they could have some rivalry in the UAAP with UP, pero problema, hindi naman manalo-nalo ang UP ever since.. hehe. People have mentioned "egos" will be the big problem about this "merger" and they were right from the start. MVP was also right when he mentioned that some people are afraid of it, afraid to share their fame or to give other teams who might be more talented any limelight... they don't understand that the "merger" will DEVELOPE players to be more skilled.. there's no problem about sharing their players, i don't even know why they mentioned that... imagine if the NCAA in the USA only have 8 teams, and you have to really compete only with the 8 teams and be on exhibition games with the rest which you don't have to take seriously.. and not in the hundreds in competition to be the best.. u think the NBA players who came from their NCAA with members in the thousands of schools will be as good? compared to just 8? that's what MVP was talking about.. for the development of our players to be highly competitive.. mga excuses lang yan ng UAAP.. UAAP isn't ready they said.. UAAP members are smart and I'm sure they understand exactly what MVP's vision... but of course they are not ready, one has to be matured like the US NCAA people to think more about the development of their fellow Americans to be the best.. and not to think of their own interests... Americans are that patriotic.. The IVY LEAGUE (which includes Harvard, Yale, Penn, etc.) can have their own league and I couldn't think of any group of schools that can really compete with them in terms of being "famous" even other US NCAA teams can be better than them in basketball... anyway.. i guess it isn't time for us in the Philippines.. like it isn't time for us to have a really decent president.. time will come when we will have matured people running our country and our leagues.. maybe by then, they will see what MVP and the UP are talking about...

For now, tiisin muna natin mga utak-talanka... and keep fighting them off, not to let them keep bringing us all down... good job for UP for trying and seeing SBP's vision.. i'm sure SBP's vision will be realized by better people.. not this year though... :-)
* *

source: http://pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327092&page=11



USTE LO MEJOR!
VIVA SANTO TOMAS!


tigerman, I think pulang_leon is a TROLL. There are many trolls at PEx, from BOTH sides.

Some of those trolls are hitting SBC & NCAA worst than what pulang_leon is doing to the UAAP & UST. So ..... I don't think you should be bothered too much about it, as am sure pulang_leon is getting it as much as he is dishing out.

mighty_lion
01-10-2008, 11:11 AM
^ I have yet to see a B.com and gameface red-blooded regular who bashes in Pex. If you will see Pulang_leon's previous posts in pex its all headed in one direction which is to start conflict based on school pride. I can say the same with animo_sbc and ___boy. Maybe thats thier way of life. Intindihin mo na lang.

Kid Cubao
01-10-2008, 11:21 AM
'wag nyo na pong i-import ang bangayan sa pex dito sa gameface forums. kung sa pex ipinost, dun na rin po kayo mag-reply.

atenean_blooded
01-10-2008, 11:23 AM
What stands out is Gregorio's cheek, or determination.

After hearing that the UAAP unanimously refused, he still plans to present this to the UP administration. What he hopes to get out of that when the league already made up its mind, and especially since UP is in no position to unilaterally decide how the UAAP will go about its business, Gregorio hasn't made very clear.

It's also pretty strange that his "soft title," was "Let's Play in 2008," because UAAP and NCAA teams have been playing with each other since before 2008. After reading most posts in this thread, and most of the articles in the media, it is only becoming more and more apparent that all he seems to have is a hollow proposal.

GHRanger
01-10-2008, 12:18 PM
I am one with quote in Rick's article which states that the SBP shouldv'e made exploratory talks first before blurting it out to the media. Now, MVP is doing damage control. This would give time for each member and league to do their own due diligence in the matter. The "just in time for UP's centennial" didn't help either and aggravated the matter.

It's a good idea, but it was poorly organized and presented. Hopefully, something good will come out of the meeting with MVP.

IMHO, before they make another press release, they should be at least final and firm at what they have to say. This includes the next steps that they will make, timetable and answers to some of the many questions posted in the media and grapevine.

OT: some people love to hide behind their handles and bash away. we'll never really know if a poster is really from the school she/he claims to be. This is a free country, everyone has a right to say what they want, and everyone has the right to laugh at it. :D Moral of the story, don't feed the trolls.

nastrans
01-10-2008, 01:17 PM
Heres what SBP, Pato, MVP and co. should do first.

Since NCAA is willing, they should merge or "unite" first the NCAA, NCRAA, UCAA, NAASCU, SCUAA...even the leagues from Visyas and Mindanao. Just leave UAAP at the moment.

When they succesfully merge all the collegiate leagues (except UAAP) and it became succesful, the UAAP will be isolated and will feel that they are being left out ad realize they should prove to everyone that they are the best by eventually joining the newly established "super league".

No man is an island ika nga ;D



The problem with this is that may mga kanya kanya ding set of rules ang mga ligang ito, at hindi rin ganun kaconsistent ang mga member teams, kaya may ibang schools naglilipat lipat sa mga ibang leagues for various reasons. Sabi nga sa article ni Rick Olivarez sa Mirror, parang may reservations ang NCRAA sa proposal na ganyan.

Like the UAAP and NCAA, let them be a different league and have representations for a national collegiate tournament.

Ghostrider
01-10-2008, 01:55 PM
I am one with quote in Rick's article which states that the SBP shouldv'e made exploratory talks first before blurting it out to the media.* Now, MVP is doing damage control.* This would give time for each member and league to do their own due diligence in the matter.* The "just in time for UP's centennial" didn't help either and aggravated the matter.

It's a good idea, but it was poorly organized and presented.* Hopefully, something good will come out of the meeting with MVP.*

IMHO, before they make another press release, they should be at least final and firm at what they have to say.* This includes the next steps that they will make, timetable and answers to some of the many questions posted in the media and grapevine.


My sentiments, exactly.

5FootCarrot
01-10-2008, 02:44 PM
Echoing Ghostrider and GHRanger.

I'm not opposed to the idea of having NCAA and UAAP schools officially compete against each other outside of the hardcore leagues - in fact, it sounds great in principle especially in the context of having more competition among schools nationwide - but the fact that this proposal isn't much more than hot air makes me very uncomfortable.

If they want something like this to get off the ground and enjoy the support of the schools involved and their fans, there should be more on the table besides a lot of rhetoric, because that's not going to address people's concerns about the proposal's implications on their schools' and players' competitiveness.

eightyfiver
01-10-2008, 03:24 PM
[b]Sa isang tulad ko na very active sa CCL thread sa forum na ito at very vocal sa supporta sa CCL, I find it strange that bukang bibig ang CCL sa dahilan ng hindi pag sang-ayon sa "merger".

I just hope that when the next edition of the CCL comes around, Collegiate National Championships* (CNC) na yata ang tawag nila, bukang-bibig pa rin ito ng mga nagbabanggit ngayon.

Yung mga pinagsasabi nila ngayon, dapat tumbasan ng aksyon pagdating ng panahon na iyon!

Aksyon na suporta, hindi yung pintas at pagbabalewala sa CNC.


After all this hullabaloo, mas seseryosohin na talaga ang champions league. Pero sana libre pa rin ang entrance, hehehe

Sineryoso naman ng UST nagpatahi naman sila ng bagong uniform noon kaya lang baka nahihiyang makantiyawan kaya practice uniform pa rin ang design.

Marami naman pala ang No sa merger, inantay lang magsalita si Fr.

Lesson learned from this thread. Huwag mag-post ng mahaba kung gusto mong basahin ng iba ang post mo.

pachador
01-10-2008, 03:26 PM
a unified league will break up eventually because of divergent groups that wont agree on issues. to head this off. i think the more leagues the merrier that way there's more presidents(maraming sikat) mientras with one league there is only one president(isa lang ang sikat).

the champions in these 101 or so leagues will just meet in a grand or super tournament so either improve upon the CCL , or expand it or replace it with something better.