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View Full Version : Window for winning championship(s) is now closed for Phoenix and Dallas?



mighty_lion
04-26-2008, 09:33 PM
Both teams pulled for risky trades in the aim of win now think about the future later. Kerr once said "if we win it all, im a genius, if not Im a moron." With Spurs one win away for the second round, Kerr is slowly looking to be a supermoron. ;D Lintek, ang target is at least western conference finals tapos mukhang first round exit. ;D

Dallas traded Devin Harris for a serviceable Kidd only to find out that what they traded away was their best low post threat on offense (Harris) and last line of defense in the post (Diop).

Dark Knight
04-26-2008, 10:04 PM
It all boils down to this.

Had Dallas kept Nash, they would have won a title already.

Had Phoenix kept Kidd, they would have won a title already.

:D

marmand
04-26-2008, 10:21 PM
The term should be closing. Both teams have next year to try to redeem themselves. There would not be anymore excuses regarding adjustments and chemistry. If after the maximum of 2 years, they do not get it then we can conclude that it is closed.

jeffjan
04-27-2008, 01:27 AM
mahihirapan na sila with the emergence of New Orleans, Utah and Portland.

lalo na with the reigning champ San Antonio and rejuvenated LA Lakers.

joelex
04-27-2008, 02:32 AM
I dont know how much gas is left in the tank for Phoenix. Considering they dont have any cap space to add a player or 2, we will see the same Suns team next season unless some key trades come up. With the way Shaq is deteriorating, he is practically unmovable. We may have seen the best of Nash already these past 3 years and with his aching back, I doubt if we will see him at the level he was again. Amare remains as the lone asset this franchise has but without the correct supporting cast to complement D'antoni's philosophy, they are slated to go downhill with their present set up.

flsfnoeraekadad
04-27-2008, 04:00 AM
Dallas still has room.

Phoenix? Say hello to the Los Angeles Lakers. They still have immovable people fat contracts (Hi, Shaq) and they wasted their draft picks for knee-jerk trades. Remember Joe Johnson? Where is Boris Diaw now? ;D

erichubert
04-27-2008, 03:34 PM
For next year, Phoenix would have a better chance than Dallas, let us see if one full season with Shaq would change their fortunes. Plus they have the 15th pick from Atlanta this year, if they draft wisely and not give it away again, they can have a stronger deeper team. Dallas would make the playoffs but not any further, not with Kidd, not with Dirk and specially not with Avery as coach.

joelex
04-27-2008, 03:52 PM
Shaq is done. One more season with him only brings disaster.

King_stag
04-27-2008, 08:17 PM
Phoenix can only do one thing, take it one game at a time. But still that's a long shot. hehe ;D They dug their own hole

cub
04-27-2008, 09:20 PM
Dallas still has room.

Phoenix? Say hello to the Los Angeles Lakers. They still have immovable people fat contracts (Hi, Shaq) and they wasted their draft picks for knee-jerk trades. Remember Joe Johnson? Where is Boris Diaw now? ;D


JJ really wants to lead his own team and he knows that he cannot do this in the Phoenix team. Diaw is just a filler in that trade. obviously, the suns were surprised with Diaw's performance that year.

tigerman
04-27-2008, 10:15 PM
Dallas traded Devin Harris for a serviceable Kidd only to find out that what they traded away was their best low post threat on offense (Harris) and last line of defense in the post (Diop).


Sorry to rain on your parade but since when did Devin Harris become a low post threat on offense? I believe Harris plays the same way like Tony Parker.

Anyway, back to the topic...

For Phoenix - Yes, for the obvious reasons mentioned already by other people. While Marion is no longer happy with the team, he was clearly the 2nd best defender next to Bell. He can't guard TD but he can at least cause some trouble with the likes of Manu and Parker. We have seen the results as shown by the spectacular performances of the Spurs' deadly backcourt duo. Oh yeah, Kerr wanted to have Shaq primarily to guard TD but the latter showed up big time in game 1. In fact, Shaq turned out to be the goat after leaving Duncan wide-open in the 1st overtime of said game.

For Dallas - Not quite sure. Maybe yes maybe no. As a Kidd fan, I still see him asl one of the few players who can take over a game even without scoring. But let's face it, the microfacture surgery had finally taken its toll on his game. He has lost the quickness needed to guard the Pauls, Derons etc. I don't know maybe Dallas and Kidd are not really fit with one another.



USTE LO MEJOR!
VIVA SANTO TOMAS!

mighty_lion
04-28-2008, 08:16 AM
^ Harris is a poor-mans Tony Parker. Among the Dallas roster Harris is the only one who can consistently bring that ball in the post for high % FG.

coreytaylor
04-28-2008, 01:48 PM
if i were to pick between kidd or harris, i'll pick harris all the way dude. dallas made a stupid trade. they should have traded stackhouse instead.

coreytaylor
04-28-2008, 01:56 PM
Dallas still has room.

Phoenix? Say hello to the Los Angeles Lakers. They still have immovable people fat contracts (Hi, Shaq) and they wasted their draft picks for knee-jerk trades. Remember Joe Johnson? Where is Boris Diaw now? ;D


JJ really wants to lead his own team and he knows that he cannot do this in the Phoenix team. Diaw is just a filler in that trade. obviously, the suns were surprised with Diaw's performance that year.


thats true. if my memory serves me right, i think JJ wanted to be traded since he doesnt wasnt to play behind nash, stoudamire and marion anymore. he also doesnt want to be called the "4th all-star" in the suns line-up as some analyst call him. i think he said he wanted to lead a new team rather than staying in phoenix and play behind nash, stoudamire, and marion.

The_Big_Cat
04-28-2008, 02:19 PM
At any rate, I still see Phoenix and Dallas trying one more year. If doesn't happen again next season expect the team to be broken-up.

Before Jason Kidd went to Dallas, I was hoping that he would end up with the Lakers. The Lakers wanted also Kidd but ended up in Dallas. Jason Kidd played college ball at California.

As for Shaq, it would be really nice if he ended his career at Orlando. Orlando drafted Shaq in 1992. O'Neal would certain help even more with the molding of Dwight Howard.

MonL
04-28-2008, 02:30 PM
Dallas still has room.

Phoenix? Say hello to the Los Angeles Lakers. They still have immovable people fat contracts (Hi, Shaq) and they wasted their draft picks for knee-jerk trades. Remember Joe Johnson? Where is Boris Diaw now? ;D


He showed up today with 20 pts and Phoenix showed up the Spurs to live another day.

The_Big_Cat
04-28-2008, 02:35 PM
Dallas still has room.

Phoenix? Say hello to the Los Angeles Lakers. They still have immovable people fat contracts (Hi, Shaq) and they wasted their draft picks for knee-jerk trades. Remember Joe Johnson? Where is Boris Diaw now? ;D


He showed up today with 20 pts and Phoenix showed up the Spurs to live another day.

Boris Diaw was two assists shy of a triple double. He and Leandro Barbosa finally showed up in this series.

coreytaylor
04-28-2008, 02:38 PM
Hate me all you want dallas and phoenix fans, but i dont think makakabangun pa sila in the playoffs. better luck next year na lang. Hhmm, i wont be surprised next year if dirk nowitzki wants to be traded. ;D

The_Big_Cat
04-28-2008, 02:45 PM
Hate me all you want dallas and phoenix fans, but i dont think makakabangun pa sila in the playoffs. better luck next year na lang. Hhmm, i wont be surprised next year if dirk nowitzki wants to be traded. ;D

Maganda siguro if he goes to the East na lang. ;D

coreytaylor
04-28-2008, 02:58 PM
^ pwedeng pwede ;D

marmand
04-28-2008, 03:17 PM
Hate me all you want dallas and phoenix fans, but i dont think makakabangun pa sila in the playoffs. better luck next year na lang. Hhmm, i wont be surprised next year if dirk nowitzki wants to be traded. ;D



The window is about to close for this season but the real test will be next season for both teams. I believe Dallas will change drastically but the Suns will give it another run. Dirk will stay but guys like, Terry, Stackhouse and even Howard might be used as trade baits for pieces that would complement Dirk and Kidd.

The_Big_Cat
04-28-2008, 03:24 PM
Hate me all you want dallas and phoenix fans, but i dont think makakabangun pa sila in the playoffs. better luck next year na lang. Hhmm, i wont be surprised next year if dirk nowitzki wants to be traded. ;D



The window is about to close for this season but the real test will be next season for both teams. I believe Dallas will change drastically but the Suns will give it another run. Dirk will stay but guys like, Terry, Stackhouse and even Howard might be used as trade baits for pieces that would complement Dirk and Kidd.

Eddie Jones and Devin George are two other aging players that could very well be gone next season.

marmand
04-28-2008, 03:26 PM
Hate me all you want dallas and phoenix fans, but i dont think makakabangun pa sila in the playoffs. better luck next year na lang. Hhmm, i wont be surprised next year if dirk nowitzki wants to be traded. ;D

Maganda siguro if he goes to the East na lang. ;D


If he gets traded, the East is indeed his destination because Cuban would not want his conference rivals to get stronger unless the Western Teams make him an offer he can not refuse like Kobe, Yao or the likes. ;D

marmand
04-28-2008, 03:27 PM
Hate me all you want dallas and phoenix fans, but i dont think makakabangun pa sila in the playoffs. better luck next year na lang. Hhmm, i wont be surprised next year if dirk nowitzki wants to be traded. ;D



The window is about to close for this season but the real test will be next season for both teams. I believe Dallas will change drastically but the Suns will give it another run. Dirk will stay but guys like, Terry, Stackhouse and even Howard might be used as trade baits for pieces that would complement Dirk and Kidd.

Eddie Jones and Devin George are two other aging players that could very well be gone next season.



They will be waived together with Juwon Howard. ( spelling? )

The_Big_Cat
04-28-2008, 03:29 PM
^There will be alot of salary room to get free agents during the off-season for Dallas.

marmand
04-28-2008, 03:32 PM
^There will be alot of salary room to get free agents during the off-season for Dallas.


I think they are still over the cap. Even with Jones, George and Howard possibly leaving, they would only have the MLE but Cuban is known to be a gambler. He will get players even if he has to pay the Luxury Tax.

MonL
04-28-2008, 04:04 PM
Hate me all you want dallas and phoenix fans, but i dont think makakabangun pa sila in the playoffs. better luck next year na lang. Hhmm, i wont be surprised next year if dirk nowitzki wants to be traded.* ;D


You can also thank Devean "Larry Bird" George's big contribution for the current year's woes with his no-trade call.

erichubert
04-28-2008, 04:06 PM
Dallas should trade Nowitzki and start all over. That Jason Kidd trade was really a mistake, Harris is not only young but he is their best perimeter defender. Plus his speed is something they really need in the west with Paul, Deron, Nash and company. Trading for a big name player doesn't really mean anything unless that player fits the team like Gasol to the Lakers.

marmand
04-28-2008, 04:08 PM
^ His action actually caused Cuban millions of dollars in luxury tax. If he agreed to go then Cuban would have had the same team but less to pay. Can not imagine how Cuban feels now. Overpaying a team he hoped would go deep into the playoffs.

marmand
04-28-2008, 04:09 PM
Dallas should trade Nowitzki and start all over. That Jason Kidd trade was really a mistake, Harris is not only young but he is their best perimeter defender. Plus his speed is something they really need in the west with Paul, Deron, Nash and company. Trading for a big name player doesn't really mean anything unless that player fits the team like Gasol to the Lakers.



Start with the coach.

erichubert
04-28-2008, 04:30 PM
Well if they are sticking with Kidd, then Avery must go. It has been reported that they don't really have good chemistry from the start. Avery loves to call each and every play for the team, something he could do with a young PG like Harris but of course Kidd wants to be given free reins on offense, thus the discord between the two.

marmand
04-28-2008, 04:34 PM
^ Everyone knows that Cuban will side with anyone except Avery. The first casualty of the Mavs this summer would probably be Avery. If Avery and Kidd are feuding then Bye, bye Avery.

The_Big_Cat
04-28-2008, 04:35 PM
^^Si Mark Cuban na lang ang paalisin. Sya siguro ang may balat? ;D

I love Avery Johnson. I think Avery has done a remarkable job which he inherited from Don Nelson.

marmand
04-28-2008, 04:38 PM
^Can not bite the hand that feeds you. Like him or not but Cuban resurrected the Mavs franchise. ;D

erichubert
04-28-2008, 04:40 PM
Right now, the Mavs probably need a more veteran coach to lead the team. Kidd and Nowitzki need a stronger presence on the bench, maybe Jeff Van Gundy? Or Rick Carlisle? Admit it or not, Avery has lost control of this team, no worries for him though, with his resume, he should get a job quickly.

marmand
04-28-2008, 04:47 PM
Right now, the Mavs probably need a more veteran coach to lead the team. Kidd and Nowitzki need a stronger presence on the bench, maybe Jeff Van Gundy? Or Rick Carlisle? Admit it or not, Avery has lost control of this team, no worries for him though, with his resume, he should get a job quickly.


How about Larry Brown?

erichubert
04-28-2008, 04:57 PM
Mukhang sa Charlotte na papunta si Larry Brown. Although medyo pwede din sya sa Dallas, si Avery na lang sa Charlotte. Michael Jordan has publicly stated he wants a coach in the mold of Avery that's why he hired Sam Vincent who turned out to be more Mike Woodson than Avery Johnson.

marmand
04-28-2008, 05:03 PM
How about Don Nelson coaching the Mavs again? ;D

joelex
04-29-2008, 01:05 AM
What about Larry Brown assisted by Don Nelson? ;D
alternate coach per possesion ;D

flsfnoeraekadad
04-29-2008, 01:10 AM
Before Jason Kidd went to Dallas, I was hoping that he would end up with the Lakers. The Lakers wanted also Kidd but ended up in Dallas. Jason Kidd played college ball at California.

Thank God Mitch Kupchak did not pull the trigger on Kidd for Bynum!

erichubert
04-29-2008, 09:33 AM
Del Harris might be the more logical choice to replace Avery if indeed he would be let go. He has been assisting Avery since he became coach. Del has experience handling stars with the Lakers before although he failed to lead them to the championship.

mighty_lion
04-29-2008, 10:17 AM
I hate Mark Cuban but I would love to have him in Phoenix in exchange for Sarver.

tigerman
04-29-2008, 01:35 PM
^ Harris is a poor-mans Tony Parker. Among the Dallas roster Harris is the only one who can consistently bring that ball in the post for high % FG.


Wait let's clear ourselves here... Are you trying to say that Harris is a low post player? (He backs down his man at the low post area)




USTE LO MEJOR!
VIVA SANTO TOMAS!

flsfnoeraekadad
04-29-2008, 01:36 PM
I hate Mark Cuban but I would love to have him in Phoenix in exchange for Sarver.

Phoenix fans must hate Sarver to death right now.

Mikhail
04-29-2008, 01:49 PM
Wait let's clear ourselves here... Are you trying to say that Harris is a low post player? (He backs down his man at the low post area)


Driving to the lane to score points in the paint.

marmand
04-29-2008, 01:52 PM
I hate Mark Cuban but I would love to have him in Phoenix in exchange for Sarver.

Phoenix fans must hate Sarver to death right now.



How about Steve Kerr?

The_Big_Cat
04-29-2008, 02:01 PM
I hate Mark Cuban but I would love to have him in Phoenix in exchange for Sarver.

Phoenix fans must hate Sarver to death right now.



How about Steve Kerr?

Steve Kerr is proven to be a winner as a player. A four-time NBA Champ, 3 with the Bulls and 1 with the Spurs. He is just on his first year as GM of the Suns organization. Give him time.

flsfnoeraekadad
04-29-2008, 02:26 PM
I hate Mark Cuban but I would love to have him in Phoenix in exchange for Sarver.

Phoenix fans must hate Sarver to death right now.




How about Steve Kerr?


Trades are, I think, approved by the owners because they are the ones to pay the luxury taxes. Kerr might have proposed the trade, but ultimately, Sarver pulled the trigger. ;)

bluegirl
04-29-2008, 02:31 PM
actually, kerr was the last to approve the trade. coach mike d antoni was the one who suggested the trade IIRC.

flsfnoeraekadad
04-29-2008, 02:32 PM
actually, kerr was the last to approve the trade. coach mike d antoni was the one who suggested the trade IIRC.

Really? So Phoenix fans hate both Sarver and Kerr. :))

bluegirl
04-29-2008, 02:35 PM
i'm a phoenix fan. and i don't hate steve kerr. :D about sarver, wala akong masyadong alam about him, but if he's the reason why marion asked to be traded, then i hate him.

erichubert
04-29-2008, 02:39 PM
Phoenix' window of opportunity should be longer if not for the penny-saving moves of their owner Robert Sarver. He repeatedly refused to pay the luxury tax, forcing their management to trade away draft picks. Remember they drafted Luol Deng and Rajon Rondo, only to trade them for peanuts basically. Not to mention their trade of Kurt Thomas and couple of first round picks to Seattle. Parang Red Bull na sila ng NBA eh. A franchise would have a hard time sustaining a winning team if their owner does not open his pockets.

marmand
04-29-2008, 02:42 PM
Unlike the Mavs, The Suns should give the present team one more try. They can still figure how to use Shaq effectively. The Mavs are just a mess right now. From owner to coach to players.

tigerman
04-29-2008, 03:17 PM
Wait let's clear ourselves here... Are you trying to say that Harris is a low post player? (He backs down his man at the low post area)


Driving to the lane to score points in the paint.


So all guards who love to penetrate are considered low post players?

Sorry for being off-topic again.

Anyway, I thought the downhill of the Suns started not when they made the Shaq trade but when they let go of 2 key players in Kurt Thomas and James Jones.



USTE LO MEJOR!
VIVA SANTO TOMAS!

marmand
04-29-2008, 03:34 PM
Agree with you. Kurt Thomas, Jones, Marion and Banks are better then Shaq.

james_ty
04-30-2008, 12:40 PM
You can say that the window is now closed. Both the Suns and Mavs lost today. And both their coaches may not last long on their jobs.

marmand
04-30-2008, 12:44 PM
Expect major changes in the line up of either the Mavs or Suns.

tigerman
04-30-2008, 01:16 PM
This is the 4th straight time that the Suns have been eliminated prematurely in the playoffs.

2005 - lost in the west finals 4-1 vs Spurs
2006 - lost in the west finals 4-2 vs. Mavs
2007 - lost in the west semis 4-2 vs. Spurs
2008 - lost in the west 1st round 4-1 vs. Spurs

Meanwhile, for the Mavs... A downhill eversince the meltdown vs. Miami in the 2006 NBA finals

2005 - lost in the west semis 4-2 vs. Suns
2006 - lost in the NBA finals 4-2 vs. Heat
2007 - lost in the west 1st round 4-2 vs. Warriors
2008 - lost in the west 1st round 4-1 vs. Hornets

The elusive ring continues to evade both Dirk and Steve. ;D


USTE LO MEJOR!
VIVA SANTO TOMAS!

marmand
04-30-2008, 01:40 PM
They might end up like Barkley, Malone and Ewing. All-stars that never won a ring.

erichubert
04-30-2008, 01:44 PM
Sad thing is if they had stayed together, they might have gotten that first ring they both want. A lot of stars are seeing their window of opportunity closing aside from Nash and Nowitzki, I think Kidd, Stackhouse and McGrady are also nearing the end.

The_Big_Cat
04-30-2008, 01:50 PM
Sad thing is if they had stayed together, they might have gotten that first ring they both want. A lot of stars are seeing their window of opportunity closing aside from Nash and Nowitzki, I think Kidd, Stackhouse and McGrady are also nearing the end.

Kidd came in the 1994 draft. Stackhouse, i think in 1995, after UCLA's final four appearance and T-Mac came to the NBA a year later after Kobe Bryant. So, bata pa si T-Mac kaso ang problem niya yung health niya primarily yung back spams niya which keeps on recurring.

marmand
04-30-2008, 01:53 PM
This is the 4th straight time that the Suns have been eliminated prematurely in the playoffs.

2005 - lost in the west finals 4-1 vs Spurs
2006 - lost in the west finals 4-2 vs. Mavs
2007 - lost in the west semis 4-2 vs. Spurs
2008 - lost in the west 1st round 4-1 vs. Spurs

Meanwhile, for the Mavs... A downhill eversince the meltdown vs. Miami in the 2006 NBA finals

2005 - lost in the west semis 4-2 vs. Suns
2006 - lost in the NBA finals 4-2 vs. Heat
2007 - lost in the west 1st round 4-2 vs. Warriors
2008 - lost in the west 1st round 4-1 vs. Hornets

The elusive ring continues to evade both Dirk and Steve. ;D


USTE LO MEJOR!
VIVA SANTO TOMAS!




Mavs have gone 3-15 after going up 2-0 vs. the Heat. 2 games short of what could have change the face of the franchise.

marmand
04-30-2008, 01:54 PM
^ Make that 3-12.

erichubert
04-30-2008, 01:58 PM
In every batch of players there are stars who really stand out and prevent others from winning championships, such as Bird and Magic in the 80s and MJ in the 90s. For this generation, it has been Shaq and Duncan.

The_Big_Cat
04-30-2008, 02:15 PM
In every batch of players there are stars who really stand out and prevent others from winning championships, such as Bird and Magic in the 80s and MJ in the 90s. For this generation, it has been Shaq and Duncan.

Shaq is the more dominant player and has the more dominant effect on their teams rather than Duncan. With Finals appearances for Orlando (1995), Lakers (2000, 2001, 2002 & 2004) and with Miami (2006), Shaq stands above Duncan. The argument for Duncan is that he had better supporting cast. David Robinson, Avery Johnson and Sean Elliot in 1999. Parker, Ginobili and Bowen in 2003, 2005 and 2007.

It is better for Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki to merge with to a top caliber team and play second fiddle to that team's superstar.

marmand
04-30-2008, 02:17 PM
In every batch of players there are stars who really stand out and prevent others from winning championships, such as Bird and Magic in the 80s and MJ in the 90s. For this generation, it has been Shaq and Duncan.



Kobe? He has 3 rings. Shaq and Tim=4 each

The_Big_Cat
04-30-2008, 02:22 PM
In every batch of players there are stars who really stand out and prevent others from winning championships, such as Bird and Magic in the 80s and MJ in the 90s. For this generation, it has been Shaq and Duncan.



Kobe? He has 3 rings. Shaq and Tim=4 each

Yes. Kobe was an intrical part of that Lakers team but everybody knows that team belongs to the Shaq Diesel. :)

erichubert
04-30-2008, 02:39 PM
Actually Kobe was as important to that team as Shaq, he had his moments and deferred to Shaq. But because of him, Shaq was given more leeway to operate downlow.

I think the only chance Kidd would get a ring now is the same way Payton got his, as a fringe starter to a powerhouse team.

marmand
04-30-2008, 02:45 PM
Actually Kobe was as important to that team as Shaq, he had his moments and deferred to Shaq. But because of him, Shaq was given more leeway to operate downlow.

I think the only chance Kidd would get a ring now is the same way Payton got his, as a fringe starter to a powerhouse team.


He has to wait for his contract to expire. His contract is too large for it to be moved to a contender without messing up some of the pieces of that contending team.

erichubert
04-30-2008, 03:33 PM
It related news, Mike D'Antoni is reportedly not coming back next year for Phoenix. Reports have said that his rift with Kerr is the primary reason for this. If this would be the case, then Phoenix would be hard pressed to replace such a great coach. Next year might be really a start of a new era for the Suns. Who would replace him? And where will he end up? Let the speculations begin!

marmand
04-30-2008, 05:04 PM
Jeff Van Gundy. He can utilize Shaq in a manner that would make use of his advantage. The Suns would be a defense oriented team so good bye to the run and gun style.

Pat Riley ;D

Scott Skiles. Run and gun style could still be implemented.

erichubert
04-30-2008, 05:11 PM
We have to remember where Amare and Nash excel is in the fast paced game. Van Gundy would kill the game of these two.

marmand
04-30-2008, 05:23 PM
By getting Shaq, they basically changed their primary source of offense. The run and gun would always be there for the Suns but they really have to incorporate Shaq.

flsfnoeraekadad
04-30-2008, 07:12 PM
First major change? D'Antoni is already fired.

cub
04-30-2008, 07:21 PM
Agree with you. Kurt Thomas, Jones, Marion and Banks are better then Shaq.


Kurt and James were not involved in the trade for Shaq. they were traded because Phoenix has a huge salary tax. IIRC, Phoenix got $6M in those trades.

flsfnoeraekadad
04-30-2008, 07:25 PM
Jeff Van Gundy. He can utilize Shaq in a manner that would make use of his advantage. The Suns would be a defense oriented team so good bye to the run and gun style. I don't want JVG and Mark Jackson to leave the ESPN/ABC commentating crew. I mean they're automatically the two best commentators from that crew with Bill Walton being the third best. ;D


Scott Skiles. Run and gun style could still be implemented.Skiles is already with Milwaukee. Boylan might follow suit.

mighty_lion
04-30-2008, 10:26 PM
^ Harris is a poor-mans Tony Parker. Among the Dallas roster Harris is the only one who can consistently bring that ball in the post for high % FG.


Wait let's clear ourselves here... Are you trying to say that Harris is a low post player? (He backs down his man at the low post area)

USTE LO MEJOR!
VIVA SANTO TOMAS!


Low post threat. Someone who can bring the ball down below and launch the ball for high% FG shots. A low post player may have a different meaning.

CM_Punk
04-30-2008, 11:36 PM
First major change? D'Antoni is already fired.


I know Byran Colangelo (the one who gave him a shot at head coaching in the NBA) still likes him, so he might consider getting Mike to coach for Toronto. I've never been that impressed with Sam Mitchell as a head coach, who might be better off as an assistant coach, a motivator for another team. Mitchell still has a lots of money left on his contract though, so it would depend on the ownership of the Raptors if they'll be willing to pay for the salaries of two head coaches for next season if D'Antoni is brought to Canada.

gameface_one
05-01-2008, 01:22 PM
Mavericks fire coach Avery Johnson after playoff exit

Reuters

DALLAS - The Dallas Mavericks have fired coach Avery Johnson following their first-round playoff exit, the team said on Wednesday.

Johnson led the Mavericks to the playoffs in four successive years including an appearance in the NBA finals in 2006.

"It is never easy to relieve a coach of his duties, especially one of Avery's caliber," Mavericks owner Mark Cuban told the team's Web site (www.nba.com/mavericks).

"He is a talented coach and I want to thank him for his efforts over the last four years and what he has done for this franchise. We wish him well in the future," he added.

Dallas's season ended on Tuesday with a 99-94 loss to the New Orleans Hornets that continued a poor playoff record.

During Johnson's time in charge, Dallas had an impressive 194-70 record in the regular season but were 23-24 in post-season games including 12 losses in the last 16 games.

The Mavericks lost the 2006 finals to the Miami Heat after letting a 2-0 lead slip, losing the next four games.

flsfnoeraekadad
05-01-2008, 04:48 PM
Anak ng putsa na-kuryente ako sa balita. Hindi pa pala fired si Mike D. Na-excite ako masyado.

The_Big_Cat
05-01-2008, 06:03 PM
Anak ng putsa na-kuryente ako sa balita. Hindi pa pala fired si Mike D. Na-excite ako masyado.

Parang gusto mo palitan si Mike as the new coach in Phoenix? ;D
I love Jeff Van Gundy's commentary. You could also include Greg Anthony and John Barry as well.
Van Gundy gives you the humor side in basketball commentary as to the more serious Doug Collins and Hubie Brown.

marmand
05-01-2008, 06:56 PM
Anak ng putsa na-kuryente ako sa balita. Hindi pa pala fired si Mike D. Na-excite ako masyado.



Who knows he may be next. :)

vickster
05-01-2008, 07:10 PM
Jeff Van Gundy. He can utilize Shaq in a manner that would make use of his advantage. The Suns would be a defense oriented team so good bye to the run and gun style.

Pat Riley ;D

Scott Skiles. Run and gun style could still be implemented.


sana wag scott skiles, when he coached the Suns before and even with the Bulls recently, he had this penchant for putting player after player in his "doghouse" for minor reasons. His constant tinkering of his rotations affected player morale and never quite led to much playoff success.

i hope d'antoni is given another chance. i think phoenix lost not because of shaq or the absence of marion but because of the bowen effect -- he really put the clamps on Nash from game 2 onwards. notice that phoenix won game 4 as most of the offense flowed through Diaw and Barbosa while Nash had limited touches. Nash is most effective when he is dribbling and probing and Bowen limited his movement and vision, screwing up the offensive flow for the suns especially evident in games 2 and 3.

I think what phoenix needs is a bigger defensive minded swingman, not necessarily a superstar, but one who could serve 2 purposes, occupy Bowen on the offense so that Parker will be forced to defend Nash, and add to the defensive mindset of the Suns.

The_Big_Cat
05-01-2008, 08:05 PM
Anak ng putsa na-kuryente ako sa balita. Hindi pa pala fired si Mike D. Na-excite ako masyado.

Who knows he may be next. :)

I think Mike D'Antoni's job is safe. They just lack the personnel in getting past deep in the playoffs.

As for Dallas, you could see it coming from Avery when they bowed out in the first round last year (Best record in regular season) after a finals appearance in 2006. Medyo umiksi ang pasensya ni Mark Cuban and allowed the trades for Kidd to come in. Personally, naka gulo yung pagpasok ni Kidd sa Dallas.

mighty_lion
05-02-2008, 09:18 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080501

And to think Suns could have landed Gasol with Kurt Thomas and 2 first round draft picks.

:'( :'(

erichubert
05-02-2008, 11:16 AM
This weekend, we would know more or less whether D'Antoni would return or not. I think Kerr is doing a good job of not meeting with him right after the series loss where emotions are still high. They might decide on things without thinking logically. The key here is would D'Antoni agree on the demands of Kerr of extending his rotation, posting up Amare and devoting practice time on defense. Some say the pride of D'Antoni would make him refuse to do this and resign instead.

But I agree that he could return because seriously I don't see anyone else coaching this core of Phoenix.

The_Big_Cat
05-02-2008, 11:18 AM
^If you're going to boot out D"Antoni, then you better break-up the entire Phoenix Suns. He is the architect of the Suns big success since he came there.

flsfnoeraekadad
05-02-2008, 11:25 AM
No, I don't think the coach is the problem. It's the quality of the bench players they got, um, no thanks to Sarver. They easily have one of the best lineups in the league but their no-namers (bench players) are almost automatic D-Leaguers.

The_Big_Cat
05-02-2008, 11:30 AM
^I agree. Yung lack of personnel that could play their system is the problem.

flsfnoeraekadad
05-02-2008, 11:34 AM
So Kerr's number 1 agenda in the offseason is not finding a new coach. It's finding a better supporting cast. And a back-up point guard, importantly.

marmand
05-02-2008, 11:38 AM
So Kerr's number 1 agenda in the offseason is not finding a new coach. It's finding a better supporting cast. And a back-up point guard, importantly.


Correct. but the coach must try to fit Shaq into the system that would also utilize his game to the fullest.

erichubert
05-02-2008, 11:46 AM
Shaq would have to do his part of the bargain too, he must be in good shape for the training camp, he comes in overweight, I'm sorry but that is season over for them. He would take the whole season getting back in shape like he always does, sometimes it turns out alright, but for these Suns, they can't afford that.

In my opinion, he is good for 20-25 minutes a game, nothing more, as long as he gives them that, score 15 pts and get 10 rebounds, then quota na yun. Critical is to get a back-up for him too. Alonzo split minutes with him in Miami and it really helped him stay fresh.

marmand
05-02-2008, 11:55 AM
^ And shoot 1000 free throws a day for the whole summer. ;D

coreytaylor
05-02-2008, 11:59 AM
hay nako phoenix and dallas fans, huwag na kayong umasa pa. the la lakers, new orleans, and utah jazz are the new big three teams in the west right now. sa spurs may still be competitive 2-3 years from now and if duncan retires 2-3 after, maybe they will acquire a new quality big man through the draft or maybe signing another star, say... elton brand perhaps or greg oden... hehe. anyway, san antonio will always be competitive as long as coach popovich is still around (just like la salle with coach franz around). anyway, these are just my speculations. hehe.

hay, ang saya ng west conference next season..... ;D

marmand
05-02-2008, 12:10 PM
Sama mo naman ang Rockets sa list mo. They will be getting Yao and Francis back. ;D

coreytaylor
05-02-2008, 12:15 PM
^ sori pare pero i consider houston as a bonus round in the playoffs.

marmand
05-02-2008, 12:38 PM
Ok. lang. better to be the underdogs. :)

coreytaylor
05-02-2008, 12:41 PM
^ ;D

tigerman
05-02-2008, 01:39 PM
No, I don't think the coach is the problem. It's the quality of the bench players they got, um, no thanks to Sarver. They easily have one of the best lineups in the league but their no-namers (bench players) are almost automatic D-Leaguers.


If you're referring to the bench of Phoenix for 07-08, I partly agree with you on that especially if you have the likes of Sam Marks in your bench. ;D But previous seasons to that, Phoenix had the materials off the bench. Remember the likes of Jalen Rose, Eddie House, James Jones, Marcus Banks? They could have provided more help if only 'D Antoni knew how to use them. But alas, he is known for resorting to short rotation of players (7-8 would suffice for him).



USTE LO MEJOR!
VIVA SANTO TOMAS!

The_Big_Cat
05-02-2008, 01:44 PM
If you're referring to the bench of Phoenix for 07-08, I partly agree with you on that especially if you have the likes of Sam Marks in your bench. ;D But previous seasons to that, Phoenix had the materials off the bench. Remember the likes of Jalen Rose, Eddie House, James Jones, Marcus Banks? They could have provided more help if only 'D Antoni knew how to use them. But alas, he is known for resorting to short rotation of players (7-8 would suffice for him).!

Last year ni Jalen Rose sa NBA during that time at laos na sya nun. Marcus Banks was inconsistent.

marmand
05-02-2008, 01:56 PM
Barbosa was also part of the Suns bench.

john_paul_manahan
05-02-2008, 04:48 PM
mavs: we knew this was inevitable. they'll look for a coach who has a system that can fit jkidd's talent.

(wildcard: the josh howard situation)

suns: i would prefer for d'antoni to stay. if he's booted out, bryan colangelo might want to acquire him for a managerial position (with first dibs at the head coaching position once sam leaves / gets fired)

(wild card: what will robert sarver do? they have the 15th overall pick.)

The_Big_Cat
05-02-2008, 04:51 PM
mavs: we knew this was inevitable. they'll look for a coach who has a system that can fit jkidd's talent.

(wildcard: the josh howard situation)

suns: i would prefer for d'antoni to stay. if he's booted out, bryan colangelo might want to acquire him for a managerial position (with first dibs at the head coaching position once sam leaves / gets fired)

(wild card: what will robert sarver do? they have the 15th overall pick.)

Trade away the 15th pick for a player that is suited for their system. Taking another young guy to their fold will be a burden since time is of the essence with their veterans.

marmand
05-02-2008, 04:59 PM
mavs: we knew this was inevitable. they'll look for a coach who has a system that can fit jkidd's talent.

(wildcard: the josh howard situation)

suns: i would prefer for d'antoni to stay. if he's booted out, bryan colangelo might want to acquire him for a managerial position (with first dibs at the head coaching position once sam leaves / gets fired)

(wild card: what will robert sarver do? they have the 15th overall pick.)

Trade away the 15th pick for a player that is suited for their system. Taking another young guy to their fold will be a burden since time is of the essence with their veterans.


The Suns management are known to give away picks. They would probably trade it for two 2nd round picks ( non-guaranteed money ) or a future first.

erichubert
05-02-2008, 05:01 PM
I just hope that they don't trade the pick just for cash, get something in return for a change. Every year, the Suns seem to have a tradition of trading away a young stud for cash. The last one being Rudy Fernandez to the Blazers, which was weird because Fernandez was not slated to play right away to begin with. When this guy comes to the NBA, I swear Suns fans would weep at what they lost. He is blowing away the competition in Europe this year.

marmand
05-02-2008, 05:05 PM
I just hope that they don't trade the pick just for cash, get something in return for a change. Every year, the Suns seem to have a tradition of trading away a young stud for cash. The last one being Rudy Fernandez to the Blazers, which was weird because Fernandez was not slated to play right away to begin with. When this guy comes to the NBA, I swear Suns fans would weep at what they lost. He is blowing away the competition in Europe this year.



They might need all the cash they can get to pay for Shaq's salary ;D

erichubert
05-02-2008, 05:14 PM
I think Sarver is just using the Suns to make money. I don't think a person like that should be owning a franchise. He basically ruined a team that was in my opinion one of the best things that happened to the NBA after Michael Jordan retired.

CM_Punk
05-02-2008, 05:16 PM
I just hope that they don't trade the pick just for cash, get something in return for a change. Every year, the Suns seem to have a tradition of trading away a young stud for cash. The last one being Rudy Fernandez to the Blazers, which was weird because Fernandez was not slated to play right away to begin with. When this guy comes to the NBA, I swear Suns fans would weep at what they lost. He is blowing away the competition in Europe this year.


I could understand why they had to trade their lottery pick in 2004 (needed money to sign Nash), but since draft 2005, these players could have been coming off the bench for Phoenix: Nate Robinson, Rajon Rondo, Sergio Rodriguez, Rudy Fernandez. Instead, they were all traded away. Out of that group, Rondo and Fernandez have the best potential, and would probably come back to haunt the Suns one day.

marmand
05-02-2008, 05:24 PM
It has. They could have helped the Suns now.

erichubert
05-02-2008, 05:25 PM
To put things in a better perspective, here is an interesting read about how the Suns threw away the chance to be a dynasty in the NBA.

A requiem for the S.S.O.L. Era in Phoenix

By Bill Simmons
Page 2
ESPN.com


They also deserve to be raked through the coals for screwing up what could have been a once-in-a-generation team. The D'Antoni-Nash alliance should have lasted for as long as Nash's back held up -- maybe six years, maybe eight, maybe even 10 -- and instead, D'Antoni seems like a mortal lock to either resign or get canned this summer. (In fact, I thought it was happening this week, which was the main reason I wrote the column. Whoops.) Just don't blame the Shaq trade for cutting D'Antoni's reign short. If you're playing the blame game, look at the front office/ownership mistakes from 2004 to 2007. Had the Suns made two different choices (just two!) and not been so concerned about the luxury tax, they could have given us 6-to-8 years of wildly entertaining basketball and maybe even a dynasty. Collectively, the mistakes made by the Suns were staggering. Check out the last four years of Phoenix teams, season by season, and how they screwed up what should have been a historically good run.

(Note to the Suns fans: You might want to throw down a couple shots of tequila before you keep going. Just trust me.)

2005 SUNS

Relevant Details: 62 wins, 110.4 points per game, 103.3 points allowed, .477 FG%, .393 3FG%, 2026 threes attempted, lost in Western Finals (San Antonio, six games).

Eight-Man Rotation: Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion, Joe Johnson (47.8% 3FG), Nash (43.1% 3FG), Quentin Richardson (38.9% 3FG), Leandro Barbosa (36.7% 3FG), Jimmy Jackson (45.9% 3FG), Steven Hunter.

Comments: That's the perfect S.S.O.L. team -- seven athletes and/or three-point shooters and a Hall of Fame point guard running the show. This was the most "successful" (for lack of a better word) Suns team, falling to the future champion Spurs in a particularly tight series that could have played out differently if Joe Johnson hadn't fractured his eye socket in the previous round. You'd think they would have keep that nucleus together, right?

Unfortunately ...

Mistake No. 1: Re-read Marc Stein's post-mortem from August, 2005 to properly refresh your memory about the Joe Johnson fiasco. That's right, fiasco. Phoenix's relationship with Johnson deteriorated so badly that he directly asked Sarver not to match Atlanta's $70 million offer -- which they didn't -- leading to the devastating trade of Johnson for Boris Diaw and two future first rounders. (Note: In that aforementioned "What If's" column, I partially excused the Suns because Johnson wanted to leave, forgetting how they drove him away until a few bitter Suns fans refreshed my memory.) They had just come within two wins of the NBA Finals and built an identity; now they were dealing a 24 year-old potential All-Star, the perfect swingman for their system, a deadly shooter who could even play backup point guard for them ... and only getting back a bench player and two future picks? Maybe that deal would have made sense for some teams, but they had just come within two wins of making the Finals! And how could they botch the Johnson thing so badly that he asked to leave? (Note: I asked these same questions three summers ago.) To borrow a modern example, this would be like the 2008 Hornets coming within two games of the NBA Finals while lowballing David West for the entire year, then trading him to Charlotte this summer for Jared Dudley and two No. 1's. Would they ever do that in a million years?

Here's what kills me about the Johnson trade: With Nash, Amare, Marion and Johnson, you're set for the rest of the decade. That's it. That's your core. That's your guarantee for 57-plus wins a year and a specific style that can work. Surround them with role players and veteran buyout guys and you're contending until Nash breaks down, and even then, you can just shift the offense over to Johnson as the main creator. HOW CAN YOU GIVE THAT GUY UP???? So what if he's insulted and doesn't want to come back? He'll get over it! You're paying him $14 million a year and he gets to play with Steve Nash! Arrrrrrrrgh.

2006 SUNS

Relevant Details: 54 wins, 108.4 points per game, 102.8 points allowed, .479 FG%, .399 3FG%, 2097 threes attempted, lost in Western Finals (Dallas, six games).

Eight-Man Rotation: Nash (43.9% 3FG), Marion, Diaw, Barbosa (44.4% 3FG), Raja Bell (44.2%) 3FG, Tim Thomas (42.9% 3FG), Eddie House (38.9% 3FG), James Jones (38.6% 3FG), Kurt Thomas, Stoudemire (injured).

Comments: Probably my favorite Suns team because of their three-point shooting (forty percent on nearly 2100 attempts?!?!?!?), the playing-bigger-than-we-are thing (inspiring), and the gritty way they responded after losing Amare for the season. Remember, this wasn't a strong year for the league -- Dallas was good, but not that good, and Miami ended up being the weakest champ of any team this decade. Switch Diaw for Johnson, give them Bell and Thomas, make Amare healthy and you're looking at the 2006 champs.

(Uh-oh, cue up the ominous "Behind the Music" music.)

But that summer, everything changed ...

Mistake No. 1: For financial reasons, they traded the No. 21 pick (Rajon Rondo) to Boston along with Brian Grant's contract (chopping $1.9 million from their 2007 payroll) for the rights to Cleveland's 2007 first round pick. This was a double whammy because they acquired that Rondo pick two years before by giving up the No. 7 pick in the 2004 Draft (for luxury tax reasons). So if you're scoring at home, they downgraded from "Luol Deng or Andre Igoudala in 2004" to "Rondo in 2006" to "selling the No. 24 pick in 2007 for cash" (we'll get to that in a second) ... which means that, effectively, they traded a No. 7 pick in a loaded draft for $4.9 million. Phoenix fans, you may now light yourselves on fire.

[b](What makes that one even more painful: Instead of signing Richardson before the 2004-05 season to a six-year, $42.6 million deal, they could have drafted Deng or Igoudala that summer and paid one of them two-fifths as much as Richardson over that same time frame. One year later, they swapped Richardson and the No. 21 pick in 2005 for Kurt Thomas, who they dumped on Seattle last summer along with two more No. 1's just to get him off their cap. As astounding as this sounds, Bryan Colangelo's decision to sign Richardson instead of drafting Deng or Igoudala -- which was dumb at the time, by the way -- ended up costing them a whopping FOUR FIRST ROUND PICKS! Would you rather have Richardson, or would you rather have the No. 7 pick in 2004, the No. 21 pick in 2005, and your first rounders in 2008 and 2010? Hold on, this gets better. Your 2005 NBA Executive of the Year? That's right, Mr. Bryan Colangelo! I love the NBA.)

Mistake No. 2: They sold the No. 27 pick to Portland (that ended up being Sergio Rodriguez). What's confusing is that they traded/sold those No. 1's for luxury tax reasons, and yet ...

Mistake No. 3: Two weeks later, they signed Marcus Banks to a five-year, $24 million deal to back up Nash. Marcus Banks!?!?!? Can you think of a worse guy for NashBall? He can't shoot threes, he's a career loser, he's never won in college or the pros, it's unclear whether he'd ever accept a reduced role behind a two-time MVP ... let's get him! Why not just draft Rondo at 21 (or Marcus Williams, or Kyle Lowry, or Jordan Farmar ... ) and develop him as a backup for one-fourth the price of Banks? Why not draft Rodriguez at No. 27 and hope he pans out for one-fifth the money?

(You're lucky I'm not a Suns fan -- I would have written 15 consecutive columns complaining about this paragraph alone. For the life of me, I will never figure out the appeal of Marcus Banks for $24 million. All they had to do was hit one freaking Celtics message board from the '05-'06 season and check one of the 35 "MARCUS BANKS SUCKS" threads. My God.)

Mistake No. 4: Giving Diaw a $45 million, five-year extension before waiting to see if he could co-exist with Amare. Just senseless. He would have been a restricted free agent in the summer of '07 -- why not wait a year and make him play for the contract? (In the biggest non-surprise of the '07 season, Diaw showed up for camp woefully out of shape, proving yet again that you can't trust the French.) Also, would you rather pay $14 million a year to Diaw and Banks or just give that money right to Joe Johnson, the quintessential swingman for the S.S.O.L. Era? I'm telling you, this was a Greek tragedy.

2007 SUNS

Relevant Details: 61 wins, 110.2 points per game, 102.9 points allowed, .494 FG%, .399 3FG%, 1967 threes attempted, lost in Western Semis (San Antonio, six games).

Nine-Man Rotation: Nash (45.5% 3FG), Marion, Stoudemire, Diaw, Barbosa (43.4% 3FG), Raja Bell (41.3%) 3FG, James Jones (37.8% 3FG), K. Thomas, Banks.

Comments: Let the record show that the S.S.O.L. Era peaked in January -- I even commemorated the moment with 3500 words of critical acclaim -- before losing steam down the stretch and eventually falling to the Spurs for three reasons: they couldn't defend Duncan (no surprise); Nash and Marion had worn down from extended seasons in '05, '06 and '07 (279 games for Nash, 290 games for Marion); and they caught a bad break with the Stoudemire/Diaw suspensions for Game 5. We could argue this one to the death, but I will always believe the Spurs were better; they led 5 of the 6 games by 10-plus points in the fourth quarter and executed down the stretch whenever they wanted.

More importantly, this was the season where Phoenix entered "no man's land" stylistically -- they couldn't get stops against a really good team, but they couldn't sustain a breakneck pace for eight months anymore because Nash and Marion were getting older and they didn't have a decent backup point guard (or any young legs, for that matter). Even their one chance to acquire an elite rookie backfired: Heading into the 2007 lottery, they owned the rights to Atlanta's pick but it was top-three protected ... and Atlanta ended up drawing the No. 3 pick. Had they gotten No. 4 or No. 5, potentially, they could have packaged that pick with Marion and Thomas for Kevin Garnett or drafted a blue-chipper as bait for Pau Gasol during the season. Nope. Instead, it was a Spaulding Smails draft: they got nothing and liked it.

But hey, even with the window closing for the S.S.O.L. Era, there was still time for two more crucial mistakes.

Mistake No. 1: Selling the No. 24 pick (Rudy Fernandez) for $3 million to Portland. Of everything Sarver inflicted on the Phoenix fans since 2004, this may have been the biggest slap in the face. You can't play the luxury tax card with Fernandez because he wasn't planning on joining the NBA until 2008 or 2009 at the earliest, so actually, it would have been savvy if the Suns drafted him and stashed him in Europe for a year or two. Instead, Sarver basically announced to his fans, "Screw you, I'd rather have the three million, I'm taking the cash." Let the record show that, by all accounts, Fernandez would be a top-5 pick in this year's draft after lighting it up in Spain. Can you quantify the damage there? I say no.

Mistake No. 2: By dealing Thomas to Seattle along with two first round picks (2008 and 2010), they saved about $8 million (plus another $8 million in luxury tax expenses) ... which would have been fine if Seattle didn't eventually ship him to San Antonio, where he helped beat them in the '08 Playoffs and played crunch-time in all five games. Even if it was a defensible trade financially, that's what happens when you cut off your nose to spite your face.

2008 SUNS

Relevant Details: 55 wins, 110.1 points per game, 105.0 points allowed, .500 FG%, .393 3FG%, 1764 threes attempted, lost in first round (San Antonio, five games).

Eight-Man Rotation: Nash (47.0% 3FG), Marion/Shaq, Stoudemire, Diaw, Barbosa (38.9% 3FG), Raja Bell (40.1%) 3FG, Grant Hill, Gordon Giricek's corpse.

Comments: Notice the lack of three-point shooters? Throw in Marion's declining skills and generally sucky attitude and you could stick a fork in the Seven Seconds or Less Era. That's why I defended the spirit behind the Shaq trade; they weren't winning the title with what they had, so why not roll the dice and hope Shaq could revive his career? It turned out to be a pretty good bet: Shaq played better than anyone expected, and you can't fault Phoenix for losing a could-have-gone-either-way series to one of the best three teams in the NBA in Round One.

Why did they fall short? Because they squandered three winnable games down the stretch, all because of execution mistakes that teams tend to make when the players aren't totally comfortable with one another yet. What stood out about the Spurs in Round One was their infallibility in big moments -- they knew what to do and where to go, and then, they did it. You don't get there by accident; you get there by picking a nucleus and building around it. Back in 2005, the Spurs had the right nucleus (Duncan, Ginobili and Parker) and so did the Suns (Nash, Stoudemire, Marion and Johnson), but only one of those teams kept it intact. And that's why the Spurs won two titles (and counting), and that's why the Suns won the title of "critically acclaimed" and that's it.

One more thing: I don't know Robert Sarver. Never met the guy, never heard anything bad about him, couldn't vouch for his financial situation. For all I know, he's the greatest guy ever. But for the life of me, I can't imagine why someone would want to own an NBA team if they cared more about breaking even than winning a championship. What's the point? Why not sell to someone who cares more about a title? Like so many other NBA fans, I have a pipe dream of stumbling into enough wealth to own an NBA team some day. It will never happen, but really, it's my ultimate pipe dream other than my daughter turning into a world-class tennis player and me turning into one of those deranged Tennis Dads who shows up for every match flashing hand signals and intimidating the judges. Anyway, if I were fortunate enough to own an NBA team, I would never, ever, EVER favor my pockets over a chance at a title. I just wouldn't. It's like going to Vegas for a guy's weekend and refusing to lose more than $100. Why even go then? Just stay home.

For instance, Celtics owner Wyc Grousbeck once vowed never to pay the luxury tax like Sarver. When a potential Garnett deal started to take shape this summer, and the Celtics realized that their payroll could climb into the mid 70's (that's millions) once they filled out the roster with free agents and buyout guys, instead of just blindly saying, "Nope, sorry, we can't do this," the Celtics spent an inordinate amount of time figuring out exactly how they'd make that money back through ticket sales, merchandise revenue, corporate sponsorships, 2009 ticket hikes, playoff money, extra courtside seats and everything else. They left no stone unturned. Eventually, the decision was made that the Garnett trade was worth the risk -- they owed it to the fans, and if they couldn't figure out how to capitalize financially on a rejuvenated Celtics franchise in a sports-crazed city that absolutely loved basketball once upon a time, then they had failed as an organization. They made the trade. And if you watch any of the home Celtics playoff games, you'll see Grousbeck sitting underneath the basket next to the visitor's bench. He's the happiest guy in the building.

That could have been Sarver. Could the Suns have done more? Did they leave every stone unturned? Did they maximize the financial potential of those teams? Did they fail as an organization to capitalize on a potential dynasty? Looking at those moves from 2004 to 2007, you'd have to call the Seven Seconds of Less Era one of the memorably squandered opportunities in recent sports history. The thing is, "Pulp Fiction" and "The Wire" didn't need trophies to validate them -- critical acclaim and eternal affection from fans was enough. When you're critically acclaimed in sports, that means you failed in the end ... and those Suns teams did fail. As much as we hate to admit it.

marmand
05-02-2008, 05:27 PM
Good find.

cub
05-03-2008, 02:04 PM
Rick Carlisle is the new head coach of the Dallas Mavericks.

stonecold316
05-03-2008, 02:48 PM
sayang talaga ang suns. Ang daming blunders. Pero its not too late. pwede pa silang bumawi next year.

stonecold316

tigerman
05-03-2008, 02:50 PM
Rick Carlisle is the new head coach of the Dallas Mavericks.


Expect to see a much improved Dallas defense. But on offense? Expect the worst. ;D



USTE LO MEJOR!
VIVA SANTO TOMAS!

cub
05-03-2008, 02:57 PM
but defense is the key in winning NBA championships. also, Carlisle is good at drafting rookies. IIRC, he's the one who drafted Granger and Okur.

erichubert
05-03-2008, 03:00 PM
But Dallas doesn't have any first round pick next year, so hindi pa niya magagamit ang drafting prowess niya. And is it certain already that he would be the next coach? I think he just had an interview with the management, I haven't heard that he was picked already.

tigerman
05-03-2008, 03:06 PM
but defense is the key in winning NBA championships. also, Carlisle is good at drafting rookies. IIRC, he's the one who drafted Granger and Okur.


Yeah *but you also need to score. He's a great coach but we must remember also why he was sacked after Detroit's 4-0 loss to New Jersey in the 2003 east finals.



USTE LO MEJOR!
VIVA SANTO TOMAS!

marmand
05-03-2008, 03:56 PM
Cuban will spend this summer. He will acquire additional pieces to surround Dirk and the luxury tax would not stop him.
Getting a coach early is a step that shows you that he wants to do things ASAP.

The_Big_Cat
05-03-2008, 04:15 PM
^That's the only they can do. Shop around for free-agents. They have the money to spend for it this summer.

marmand
05-03-2008, 04:25 PM
Cuban will always have the money to spend. ;D They have pieces they can use as trade baits.

erichubert
05-03-2008, 04:35 PM
Only way for them to get high-priced free agents is thru sign and trades, they are over the luxury tax as it is, so all they have is the Mid Level Exemption which would be around 6M per year. In fact Dirk, Kidd, Josh, Terry and Dampier already puts them over the cap. It is not really about Cuban opening up his wallet anymore rather it is making good moves and choosing the right players to keep and to trade.

marmand
05-03-2008, 04:36 PM
^Having a new coach could do that.

flsfnoeraekadad
05-03-2008, 09:09 PM
Rick Carlisle is the new head coach of the Dallas Mavericks.


Expect to see a much improved Dallas defense. But on offense? Expect the worst. ;D



USTE LO MEJOR!
VIVA SANTO TOMAS!


Expect 60 point games for Dallas - and for their opponents. ;D

cub
05-03-2008, 09:48 PM
but defense is the key in winning NBA championships. also, Carlisle is good at drafting rookies. IIRC, he's the one who drafted Granger and Okur.


Yeah but you also need to score. He's a great coach but we must remember also why he was sacked after Detroit's 4-0 loss to New Jersey in the 2003 east finals.



i think Dallas have enough firepower to win games. Dirk, Josh, Jet and Kidd will carry the load for them. Defense is what they need. they cannot contain West and Paul because let's just say that Dirk is "Irk" and is very soft like Gasol.

MonL
05-03-2008, 10:19 PM
^ And shoot 1000 free throws a day for the whole summer. ;D


Nope. Make 1000 free throws a day the whole summer.* ;D

marmand
05-03-2008, 11:01 PM
^ In that case, He has to shoot 10,000 free throws a day. :D

dark_seid
05-04-2008, 06:54 PM
^ you mean shaq has to do that?

the diesel has already shown a reluctance to change his free throw shooting motion throughout the years (remember the "bend your knees" chant during his orlando days). his pride already spewed the "i make them when they count"-line. there's a line of thought that when he sprained his wrist while still a teenager, it affected his range of motion. but being really an athletic specimen to begin with, he could have worked around it. it all really boiled down to his stubbornness and his pride.

marmand
05-04-2008, 07:25 PM
^ you mean shaq has to do that?

the diesel has already shown a reluctance to change his free throw shooting motion throughout the years (remember the "bend your knees" chant during his orlando days). his pride already spewed the "i make them when they count"-line. there's a line of thought that when he sprained his wrist while still a teenager, it affected his range of motion. but being really an athletic specimen to begin with, he could have worked around it. it all really boiled down to his stubbornness and his pride.



Yes, so that the Hack a Shaq would stop and that the coach of the Suns can fully utilize Shaq in the 4th quarter.

erichubert
05-05-2008, 10:07 AM
^ you mean shaq has to do that?

the diesel has already shown a reluctance to change his free throw shooting motion throughout the years (remember the "bend your knees" chant during his orlando days). his pride already spewed the "i make them when they count"-line. there's a line of thought that when he sprained his wrist while still a teenager, it affected his range of motion. but being really an athletic specimen to begin with, he could have worked around it. it all really boiled down to his stubbornness and his pride.



Yes, so that the Hack a Shaq would stop and that the coach of the Suns can fully utilize Shaq in the 4th quarter.


I am guessing that the Hack a Shaq would be addressed by the NBA this offseason, I can see a rule change regarding this. Nevertheless, Shaq should indeed improve that freethrow percentage, but I don't see him doing it this summer, his work ethic is not really top notch.

flsfnoeraekadad
05-05-2008, 10:12 AM
He never did it during his prime, don't expect it to happen as he nears the twilight of his career.

bluegirl
05-05-2008, 10:15 AM
is it just me or are people a bit too hard on shaq about his F/T shooting?

in one game (d ko maalala which one), he shot 9/20. that's 45% already. it might not be high, but it's not that low either.

flsfnoeraekadad
05-05-2008, 10:19 AM
is it just me or are people a bit too hard on shaq about his F/T shooting?

in one game (d ko maalala which one), he shot 9/20. that's 45% already. it might not be high, but it's not that low either.


He is a go-to center (yes, until now) so he's expected to hit that because he gets the ball more often than other players.

If Shaq was like Kwamay freaking Brown, I'd let that pass. We all know how dumb Kwame is. ;D

erichubert
05-05-2008, 10:24 AM
45% for a pro is very low, actually 60% is already low. Specially if the offense is run through you. His freethrow shooting could spell whether the team wins or not.

marmand
05-05-2008, 10:33 AM
Imagine if Shaq had the free throw percentage of Yao, He could be averaging in the 30's.

dark_seid
05-05-2008, 10:36 AM
is it just me or are people a bit too hard on shaq about his F/T shooting?

in one game (d ko maalala which one), he shot 9/20. that's 45% already. it might not be high, but it's not that low either.


as bill simmons remarked, the suns who did the seven-seconds-or-less is now officially gone. no more of that run-and-gun attack because the diesel needs to be accommodated. actually the hack-a-shaq strategy totally took nash and the free-wheeling players out of their offensive rhythm, as evidenced by steve just compiling so few assists.



I am guessing that the Hack a Shaq would be addressed by the NBA this offseason, I can see a rule change regarding this. Nevertheless, Shaq should indeed improve that freethrow percentage, but I don't see him doing it this summer, his work ethic is not really top notch.


not sure if this can be addressed. it's the onus on the player to make his free throw. that's why it's free. this is already one tactic being used to slow down the new beasts of the game - lebron and dwight.

flsfnoeraekadad
05-05-2008, 10:50 AM
Yeah and JVG comes up with another witty statement saying that Pop should not be booed for doing Hack-A-Shaq in Phoenix but it's Shaq who should be booed for his inferior capacity to make charities.

erichubert
05-05-2008, 01:46 PM
I do see the point in saying that it is the player's job to make the freethrows but I think there should be an added penalty if you foul a player away from the ball. It just makes for boring basketball and Stern would definitely do something about this.

marmand
05-09-2008, 12:13 PM
Found an article about reviewing the rules of fouling away from the ball. ( Hack a Shaq related )


Commish: Fouling away from ball, replay to be reviewed
By J.A. Adande
ESPN.com
(Archive)

Updated: May 8, 2008, 12:52 AM ET
NBA commissioner David Stern said Wednesday that the league will consider changing its rules on fouls away from the basketball in addition to reviewing the use of replay for game clock malfunctions when the competition committee meets in Orlando at the end of the month.


Speaking to reporters at the Staples Center before he presented the Most Valuable Player award to Los Angeles Lakers guard Kobe Bryant, Stern said, "I think there are two subjects that are going to get some attention by the competition committee. No. 1 is review on clock situations. And No. 2 is the whole intentional fouls away from the play etc. I don't know what the results will be in each one, but I think those are worthy of some considered attention."

Both issues have come to the forefront in the playoffs. In the first round, the San Antonio Spurs made extensive use of the Hack-a-Shaq tactic, repeatedly fouling Phoenix Suns center Shaquille O'Neal away from the ball to send him to the free-throw line. While the Suns questioned the aesthetics of the strategy, they admitted it affected them by disrupting the tempo of the game -- and O'Neal shot only 50 percent from the line in the series.

Stern indicated he had a problem with "the idea that, 'Hey, look at me, I'm going to hit this guy as soon as the ball goes into play, even though he's standing under the other basket.' I think that conversation has been started again, by the media, by fans etc. We're going to look at it again."

His comments about clock reviews echoed those made by NBA president Joel Litvin in a statement in which he admitted a 3-pointer by Detroit's Chauncey Billups at the end of the third quarter of Game 2 against the Orlando Magic should not have counted. With 5.1 second remaining, the Pistons inbounded the ball on the far end of the court, and the clock froze at 4.8 seconds as Billups dribbled upcourt. Litvin said the play took 5.7 seconds, meaning the buzzer should have sounded before the shot went up.

Under current rules the play was not reviewable because officials are allowed to use replay only if a shot went in and the clock expires. If the use of replay were expanded, Stern said, "We'd have to actually have the timing synched over the video, so that going to the video was really a slam dunk, so to speak. We would have to be persuaded that we could time code the video in real time."

In other topics, Stern disputed the notion that NBA players' participation in international competition takes an excessive toll on their bodies. Lakers Coach Phil Jackson brought up the subject earlier in the evening when asked about Bryant's Olympic duties this summer.

"The rest and recuperation that they can get in the offseason is really critical to players," Jackson said. "We've joined world basketball in this cause to chase whatever."

erichubert
05-10-2008, 11:56 AM
Rick Carlisle is the new Dallas coach officially. I think it is a good choice, but I doubt he can be any better than Avery. He might be more flexible on offense so that would help Kidd a lot.

marmand
05-10-2008, 12:23 PM
Its now time to surround Dirk with youth and talent or else ship Dirk to get a player to build around.

coreytaylor
05-10-2008, 04:40 PM
Its now time to surround Dirk with youth and talent or else ship Dirk to get a player to build around.


no they wont trade dirk but dirk will demand a trade sonner or later ;D

marmand
05-10-2008, 09:09 PM
^ Unless Cuban is offered a deal that He can not refuse. All the Mavs have to do is build around Dirk and Josh. Use Jerry, Jason Terry and others as baits to get the right pieces.

cub
05-11-2008, 10:09 PM
now that D'Antoni has left the Suns for the Knicks, who do you think will be the next Phoenix's coach? i wish it could be Tim Thibodeau(asst. coach of the Celtics, he's like Koy Banal of the Purefoods, a defensive specialist coach) or JVG( a proven defensive coach but cannot win a championship).

yungha
05-13-2008, 05:25 PM
today's phoenix suns and the sacramento kings of the early millenium prove that good fortune plays a major part in building a champion team. the kings had all the tools to dethrone the lakers during the webber-divac-peja-bibby era. one time horry killed them with that buzzer-beating 3 off a loose ball. another year they lost webber, another year they lost peja, another year they lost bobby jackson. each time they made it to the conference finals, each time lack of personnel took its toll.

two years ago, the phoenix suns were in a position to win it all but they lost stoudemire for the season. still, they made it to the conference finals. last year, they were complete but lost diaw and amare for game 7 of the conference finals. if not for these 2 unfortuitous turns of events, D'Antoni would still be coaching phoenix and be part of the elite group of active champion coaches.

mighty_lion
05-13-2008, 05:47 PM
OT: Im thinking of switching my team from Suns to the Knicks. Somehow, its hard to swallow a running Randolph and Eddy Curry in NY. Lindol palagi pagnagkataon. ;D

marmand
05-13-2008, 08:04 PM
OT: Im thinking of switching my team from Suns to the Knicks. Somehow, its hard to swallow a running Randolph and Eddy Curry in NY. Lindol palagi pagnagkataon. ;D




One or both would probably be traded.

MonL
05-14-2008, 06:00 AM
OT: Im thinking of switching my team from Suns to the Knicks. Somehow, its hard to swallow a running Randolph and Eddy Curry in NY. Lindol palagi pagnagkataon.* ;D


One or both would probably be traded.


From "run-and-gun" to "rumps-and-gums." Napakalaking transition yan.* ;D

Emon74
06-26-2010, 11:44 AM
Suns may still have a chance, at least to make it to the NBA finals, Dallas, I believe it will be a long time again to figure in a championship, not in the Nowitzki Era, too bad Phoenix always fell short, and Steve Nash has been in 4 Western Conference Finals for the past 8 years (2003 with Dallas, 2005-2006, 2010 with Phoenix).

tigerman
06-26-2010, 10:42 PM
^ Harris is a poor-mans Tony Parker. Among the Dallas roster Harris is the only one who can consistently bring that ball in the post for high % FG.


It still doesn't make Devin Harris a "low post threat".

Btw, pasensya na kung 2 years in the making etong reply ko. ;D



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