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nel
09-16-2006, 06:39 PM
The UAAP has come under fire in recent years because of how it is being run, oftentimes described as an "old boys' club". What changes can be made to improve how the UAAP is being run?

I have in the past posted a suggestion in another forum that the UAAP should be run by an independent professional sports management group in the same way as the PBL is now being managed. This group should be headed and staffed by competent people who are well versed in sports management, and should have a multi-year contract to ensure continuity and consistency in the way affairs are run. The management group will run the league's various events, and provide real sports officials to oversee competitions and ensure that the competitions will not only be run in a fair and unbiased manner, but also align the UAAP with the national sports development efforts. The UAAP can effectively become a source of prospects for the various national teams in the different sports.

The way the UAAP is run today, there's too much politicking, partisanship, and suspicion of motives. Every year, we have a new UAAP commissioner, officiating group, and board members. Every year, there are issues with ticket distribution and accusations of ticket hoarding and scalping.

The proposed sports management group will take care of the operational matters including enforcemment of rules covering player eligibility. All matters should be handled with total transparency. The board will be relegated to policy matters, and should keep its hands off the day-to-day operations.

The question is, will the UAAP board agree, or will they vote to maintain status quo?

oca
09-16-2006, 06:55 PM
For the Board to implement these suggested changes is to admit they are NOT running the league as it should. Collectively, the Board reps will not admit to any misdeed or incompetence. Meaning, no changes will happen.

Kung gugustuhin nila, noon pa.

Besides, looking at the demeanor of these individuals during games, they relish the power and importance that comes with their position and functions.

Addictive yun!

Paano nga ba mag rehabilitate ng isang addict?

Fried Green Tomato
09-17-2006, 03:46 AM
If we put our trust to the uaap board members in initiating true reforms in the uaap, then expect nothing to happen. It is like saying that the congressmen would agree to take away their pork barrels or the senate supporting the idea of a unicameral legislative body thus abolishing itself.

As the undisputed premier collegiate league in the land, the uaap board members would never give up their posts and deprive themselves of the power, perks & other privileges that goes with the position.

Year after year we have seen how the uaap board keeps on changing the uaap rules. And the initiative was always a reactionary move... always with the same alibi - for the sake of "leveling the playing field". However, we have seen that the changes they introduced are slowly hampering the growth of uaap simply because there was little (or no) careful deliberation on the proposed revision of rule presented to the board. The uaap board is slowly killing the league because vested interest becomes the priority instead of what is good and fair to all. Little by little, because of the whims of the uaap board, the ncaa is slowly catching up on us. And eventhough the uaap is still the top league but with the way it is being managed now, we may end up soon as second fiddle to ncaa. Even at this time, i have to admit that the ncaa is the better managed league as their rules are more insynched with the changing times and there is little politicking happening among members. A good example is the case of Ekwe. Eventhough other members know that the addition of ekwe would make san beda a very formidable opponent, they did not think twice in allowing the player to play this season. The case was decided simply on the merits of the case/request presented to the ncaa board. If politics was involved and greed came to play, then we would see other members to reject the case and instead protect the interest of their school. That's in the ncaa but i doubt very much if such unselfish act is likely to happen in the uaap. From the way our board members have acted, they would blindly protect their vested interest and reject the idea (no matter how valid it is) since it's not going to benefit them.

A way to compel the uaap to make reforms is for the Presidents/heads of all members to initiate the move. A call from the very top is the only way for the board members to give up their posts and give way to a new set of professionals in managing the league. This is the only way in making sure that the league stays on top, less partisan and ever vibrant. I think no President/head of a university would oppose this move or else be branded of putting its interest first ahead of the reforms needed by the league that would benefit all participating schools and its youth.

And I wish those calling for honest-to-goodness changes and even those still actively pursuing a review of a closed case should initiate the move, with vigor and passion, by communicating or writing their own university president that it is now time to professionalize the uaap. Instead of wasting energy reliving the past, move forward with the vision to make the uaap a truly fair progressive leaue. And since many are so concerned with the morals we need to impart to the youth, be the catalyst for change. I'm sure that there are many good natured individuals from all member schools with pure intentions in their hearts and the fervor to instigate a dramatic life changing move for the sake of the league and the youth.*

mangtsito
09-17-2006, 05:51 AM
A way to compel the uaap to make reforms is for the Presidents/heads of all members to initiate the move. A call from the very top is the only way for the board members to give up their posts and give way to a new set of professionals in managing the league. This is the only way in making sure that the league stays on top, less partisan and ever vibrant. I think no President/head of a university would oppose this move or else be branded of putting its interest first ahead of the reforms needed by the league that would benefit all participating schools and its youth.



There's this interesting anecdote about a certain cooking implement commenting on the relative blackness of another cooking implement.

I agree, change should be initiated from within. For example, before we make outrageous calls for the President of the Republic to resign, let's put our own respective houses in order first.

jembengzon
09-17-2006, 07:25 AM
if changes are to be made, and last, then there are certain realities that need to be addressed.

1. money talks, bullsh_t walks. - any change will have to result into greater revenue for the schools than what they're currently getting now. the supposition here is the schools wait for their turn to host, then milk the opportunity for all it's worth. if the assumption is the old boys club is happy with the status qo, then any meaningful change will have to be convincing that it results into stronger financial gain for the school.

personally, i don't like it, but i think that's the reality.

2. set of eligibility rules enforced. - supposedly, there are these, but are they enforced consistently ? to do this, these require a full-time staff who not only collect the documents, but draft policy, police compliance, and determine appropriate punishment for would be offenders. these would have to be real student athletes, not basketball mercenaries - a mindset change that needs to take place in the players themselves. otherwise, changes will not take root.

maybe then we could have a clear and lasting policy on transferees, eligibility, a real definition of an enrolled student - athlete (i.e., are they allowed allowances, play for pay in the pbl, endorsements, etc. ?)

3. political will - there should be a backer from the sponsors, preferably abs-cbn. the board is not going to push for change, unless some big boy is going to champion it with the promise, or threat of financial gain. as much as i like the idea of grassroots pushing for change, people in power in this country listen and respect other people in power - and in tis case, the sponsors. contacts anyone ?

nel
09-17-2006, 08:56 PM
One change I'd really push will be total transparency in how the league is run. There are at least 2 areas I can think of which would benefit from transparency:

The revenue the UAAP makes - how much, and where does it go? Revenue comes from the media coverage of ABS CBN, sponsorships and advertisements, and ticket sales. I would be particularly interested in how the tickets are allocated, because year after year, tickets seem to end up in the hands of scalpers. I think you can trace the ticket number to determine where (which school) the ticket came from. Revenue is used to fund operations - perhaps this should be posted somewhere (why doesn't the UAAP have its own site?).

The minutes of meetings - at the board and the technical committee levels, should be open to the public. Unless there's something to hide, there is no reason to keep this under wraps. BTW, as I previously proposed, the board should be confined to policy level decisions, and the operations be totally delegated to a professional sports management group. The PBA is run by professionals, as is the PBL, and you can see the year-to-year development and evolution of these leagues in response to the changing times. In contrast, the way the UAAP conducts its business makes the people who sit on the board seem almost fossilized, because of the way each year closely resembles the previous. Except, of course, when they are awakened from their hibernatoin by some controversy.

chocoks77
09-17-2006, 09:17 PM
REFEREES...'nuf said :-[

atenean_blooded
09-17-2006, 11:15 PM
- The present composition of the board is fine. The current structure works in favor of the interest of the greater majority.
- NEVER, EVER, GET NABRO. NEVER. KILL WHOEVER RECOMMENDS NABRO.
- Stricter requirements for student-athletes. Demand a graduation rate for student-athletes. Demand a certain standard grade requirement.
- Obliterate the stupid drum limit rule.
- Have the professional sports management group handle most of the UAAP's technical operations, all subject to the oversight of the UAAP board.

shyboy
09-17-2006, 11:40 PM
- Have the professional sports management group handle most of the UAAP's technical operations, all subject to the oversight of the UAAP board.




The UAAP Board has had already too many oversights. :P

nel
09-18-2006, 07:42 AM
The rationale behind the suggestion to restrict the board to policy making is to minimize or totally eliminate bias in decision making. An independent sports management group will probably be impartial in evaluating and deciding on issues brought before it. The current setup opens the door to suspicions that the board decides on issues based on the vested interests of the members. A good example of the stakeholders leaving the management of a league to competent managers is the PBL, which is run by Commissioner Chino Trinidad and his staff on behalf of the team owners, and there is not a whisper that his decisions are biased in anyone's favor.

I don't know what the qualifications of UAAP board reps are (I doubt if there any save for their being nominated by their school). It's entirely possible that some of them have never engaged in athletic competition. Most of them are academicians, administrators, or team managers. On the other hand, a sports management organization will have people who have done it before, on the playing court/field, and as sports organizers/managers.

The way the UAAP is run is not fine. Let's let competent people run the UAAP.

atenean_blooded
09-18-2006, 10:23 AM
I disagree. A seperate entity would prove all too tempting to twist to suit the desires and needs of one party. The best check and balance in the UAAP is a board of representatives from all 8 schools. The few complaints seem to come only from a very small minority.

The board, however, should not meddle in technical affairs of which probably on Ricky Palou is knowledgable. I agree that at least with regard to such matters, it is a professional sports group which ought to take charge, with their decisions reviewable by the UAAP board. However, key issues like suspension ought to be decided by the UAAP board.

nel
09-18-2006, 02:16 PM
Having an independent group would be less prone to bias. Look at how the PBL and PBA are now run. Although the league is essentially owned by the teams, we haven't heard any accusations about the commissioners being biased for or against any team. Any bias by the sports management group would stick out like a sore thumb, and would be questioned by the UAAP board - do you think that any bias would escape their watchful eyes? Not likely.

Operations should be handled by the independent and impartial group of sports management people who are skilled and well versed in the rules and regulations of the different sports. Suspensions are part of operations and are the result of a major violation of the rules. I don't expect the UAAP board to be conversant in the nitty gritty of regulations of all the sports, so how can they decide on technical matters? They are supposed to be educators and administrators, so that's their core competence, not management of sporting events (except perhaps for Ricky Palou, who was an athlete). They should leave the management of the league to those who know how to do it well.

atenean_blooded
09-19-2006, 12:27 AM
Having an independent group would be less prone to bias. Look at how the PBL and PBA are now run. Although the league is essentially owned by the teams, we haven't heard any accusations about the commissioners being biased for or against any team. Any bias by the sports management group would stick out like a sore thumb, and would be questioned by the UAAP board - do you think that any bias would escape their watchful eyes? Not likely.

Operations should be handled by the independent* and impartial group of sports management people who are skilled and well versed in the rules and regulations of the different sports. Suspensions are part of operations and are the result of a major violation of the rules. I don't expect the UAAP board to be conversant in the nitty gritty of regulations of all the sports, so how can they decide on technical matters? They are supposed to be educators and administrators, so that's their core competence, not management of sporting events (except perhaps for Ricky Palou, who was an athlete). They should leave the management of the league to those who know how to do it well.


Nel, we probably agree more than this thread shows.

Like I said, I agree that it should be an independent group that manages operations and technical affairs. However, their decisions ought to be reviewable by the stakeholders, as represented by the UAAP Board. Unlike some parties, I have more faith in the Board than just doubt.

What I meant by suspension was not just one player's suspension, but rather team suspensions like the one handed to La Salle because of negligence and a violation of UAAP rules.

But yes, more than anything, the UAAP Board should be more of a policymaking group that decides only on key policy issues, which will include the selection of the said independent sports group, major rule changes, and review of contested decisions by the technical committee (this is the only way the board, as a collegiate body, can override the possible bias of an independent sports group). Schools ought to send people who are versed in sports as members of the board. The rest of the day-to-day league operations should be handled by an independent group with an independent commissioner.


And again, NEVER NABRO. NABRO BULOK.

nel
09-19-2006, 07:21 AM
I do agree with you about the accountability of the sports management group. Its purpose is to run the UAAP to serve its stakeholders - and this is where I draw the line. The major stakeholders are NOT the board, although they represent their respective schools, it's the general interest of the students, alumni, and general public who should be considered by this group when they make decisions. The board just makes sure that the general direction and goals of the UAAP are set and realized. It's the job of the sports management group to do the day-to-day operations to keep the UAAP on track.

A school's suspension should be taken up at the board level; however, a player's suspension due to infraction of the rules, say a flagrant foul, should be left to the sports management group since it is an operational matter. For that matter, ticket distribution should also be delegated to this group - and they should be given the mandate to stamp out or at least minimize ticket scalping, which serves to line the pockets of ???

Unless there is a perception from the board that this group is grossly mismanaging the UAAP operations, it should be left alone. Nobody can manage effectively if the board is micromanaging, snoopervising, or always looking over their shoulders.

atenean_blooded
09-19-2006, 10:31 AM
I do agree with you about the accountability of the sports management group. Its purpose is to run the UAAP to serve its stakeholders - and this is where I draw the line. The major stakeholders are NOT the board, although they represent their respective schools, it's the general interest of the students, alumni, and general public who should be considered by this group when they make decisions. The board just makes sure that the general direction and goals of the UAAP are set and realized. It's the job of the sports management group to do the day-to-day operations to keep the UAAP on track.

A school's suspension should be taken up at the board level; however, a player's suspension due to infraction of the rules, say a flagrant foul, should be left to the sports management group since it is an operational matter. For that matter, ticket distribution should also be delegated to this group - and they should be given the mandate to stamp out or at least minimize ticket scalping, which serves to line the pockets of ???

Unless there is a perception from the board that this group is grossly mismanaging the UAAP operations, it should be left alone. Nobody can manage effectively if the board is micromanaging, snoopervising, or always looking over their shoulders.


I think the independent sports group should also be cloistered and hidden from the media and public, so as not to allow for anyone to unduly influence them.

BigBlue
09-19-2006, 10:44 AM
^ isnt this what the Technical Committee is already doing? Can anyone expound on what the Technical Committee can or cannot do?

thor
09-19-2006, 02:11 PM
no offense to elmer yanga, but does anyone else get the impression he's the wrong man for the job? respected basketball guy, check. can work compromises and balance conflicting interests, check. but cracking referees' head's together so they shape up? i can't imagine it, unless he has a nasty side to him i'm not aware of. it's almost as if there were some conspiracy to appoint a nice guy to a job more ideally suited for someone with a hint of menace to him.

joe lipa, who is something of an expert on bad refereeing, and has more than a hint of menace to him, used to have yanga's job, and i think it's a measure of his effectiveness that NABRO turned up this season with an axe to grind against the UP maroons. now there's a man who knows how to yell at refs. and he's paying for it.

the practice of hiring a particular referees' association is the equivalent of hiring a monopoly. as with all monopolies, there are inefficiencies, the risk of complacency, and the abuse of power. i think the UAAP should be thinking like a union breaker in this case. it has the sufficient bargaining power to pick and choose which referees it wants to work with, based on merit. it can start by signing up whatever referees have the FIBA international certification and cherry pick the better ones from the rest of the lot, regardless of affiliation. offer them one-year contracts for the season and pay them a generous retainer to ensure a level of professionalism and guarantee good behavior. the league has to learn to pay good money for the best, now that it's so rich.

of course, this presupposes some stability in UAAP policy year-on-year. but the hosting system produces different "procurement" officers each season tasked with hiring refereeing services, which means the "bad" referees can negotiate a piece of the action during those years where they can cut a deal.

Joescoundrel
09-19-2006, 04:02 PM
I think simply following the existing rules especially on player eligibility is a good start. I do not believe for instance that the current misfortune of Lasalle is an isolated case. There have been many instances when player eligibility was called into question, such as Mark Isip, Bon Custodio and Japeth Aguilar. And yet what has the UAAP actually done about these things? We should simply go back to basics: the UAAP is suposed to be a collegiate varsity league, a sporting organization for schools and students. Athletes should therefore be students first, REAL students, who pass the entrance and admission requirements of their respective schools and actually attend and pass the courses they should be enrolled in. Simply clarifying and strictly implementing the rules on eligibility would be the best and most significant thing the UAAP can do. Look at this year's theme, "a celebration of youth". And yet we run into controversies like suppressed reports on player eligibility and shitty officiating. How the heck are things like these supposed to celebrate youth?

whiplash
09-23-2006, 05:37 AM
home and away games... playing courts that is...

this way there will be a continuous development of each school's athletic facilities...

Birdland
09-23-2006, 10:58 PM
Ban the Pumarens. Scandals and accusations of players dropping games, improper player behaviour on and off the court, and the fielding of ineligible players always seem to happen to teams where a Pumaren is involved (well maybe except the Adamson case - wala pa atang mga Pumaren noon). What a coincidence! Hmmmmm!!!!

I suggest that the UAAP Board ban those Pumarens forever!

bit_bang_boom
10-01-2006, 03:40 PM
I've thrown around this idea countless number of times...

I-merge na ang NCAA and UAAP. I just see no point in having two major collegiate athletics associations. Around now would be a good time to do it with both leagues seemingly having the same level of talent and exposure. Yes, maraming complications, but I think the pros in the long run outweight the short-term cons.

Yeah, this isn't related at all to the current controversies but I thought I'd mention this just to see if anyone else is with me. ;D

EngWalker
10-01-2006, 08:08 PM
Ban the Pumarens. Scandals and accusations of players dropping games, improper player behaviour on and off the court, and the fielding of ineligible players always seem to happen to teams where a Pumaren is involved (well maybe except the Adamson case - wala pa atang mga Pumaren noon). What a coincidence! Hmmmmm!!!!

I suggest that the UAAP Board ban those Pumarens forever!

1980s po coach na si Derrick Pumaren sa UAAP. So may Pumaren na po before the Adamson case.

May case na po ba na na-prove that the Pumarens had a hand on the ineligible players? Wala pa diba? Takot ka lang baka walang mag back-to-back next year.

Classic case of crab mentality here. Sheeesh.

freak
10-01-2006, 10:00 PM
home and away games... playing courts that is...

this way there will be a continuous development of each school's athletic facilities...


I'm all for this pero, ayusin muna ng UE yung gym/oven nila. I watched the Home and Away semi-finals between ADMU-UE this year. Pagtapos ng game sinabi ko sa sarili ko, hindi na ako manood sa gym na yun. :P

lurkinggood
10-13-2006, 08:04 AM
Ang bilis ng panahon...* 10 months na lang UAAP Season 70 na!!!!* :D :D :D

With all UAAP teams in attendance next year, expect TV coverage at Studio 23 to be riddled again with too many sponsors. Inevitably, any company vying for the viewing public's mindshare will definitely fight for commercial slots.*

Given this, I say next year is the season when Studio 23 can really cash in for sponsorships. Kung ako sa kanila, I will make a killing to sponsors who pulled out this year (Nestle, Smart, etc. etc.). Tagain nila ng todo sa presyo if these sponsors plan to get into UAAP again. Bawiin ang nawalang revenue this year! Give special preference and special arrangements to those who stuck it out with UAAP coverage this year (Rexona First Day High!!! ;D).

Pahirapan ang mga walang modong sponsors na nag-pullout this year!!!* ;) ;D >:(

5FootCarrot
10-13-2006, 10:34 AM
lurking - ;D

I agree, though, that the sponsors who stuck with the league this year should be given preference. (I hope they were pleasantly surprised that the UAAP still drew sizable crowds this season, and I'm pretty sure TV viewership didn't change much. Baka lumaki pa nga...;))

I wonder if it's possible to still have the games start and end on schedule next year. Because there were less sponsors this season, the regular-season games were always on time at least. If it's not possible, well, at least we can go back to taking our time going to Araneta next year :P

Wang-Bu
10-13-2006, 02:23 PM
Sang-ayon ako sa sinabi nung isa nating kasapi dito: Dapat nga siguro pag-isahin ng UAAP at NCAA. Gaya ng nabanggit ko din minsan, parang sa ACC at PAC-10 sa States, bagama't mahalaga ang kani-kanilang mga conference mas mahalaga pa din ang NCAA tournament mismo. Kung tutuusin dapat ngang mas ituring na importanteng tournament ang CCL kasi diyan nagkikita-kita ang lahat ng pinakatanyag na koponan. Bandang huli isa itong paraan upang mas mapaganda ang basketball at least sa college level, kasi ang mga pinakamagagaling na koponan naglalaban-laban.

Masyado kasing taliwas ang turing ng tao sa UAAP dahil lang naroon ang mga tinuturing na sikat na mga paaralan - ang Ateneo, Lasalle at UP, ang sinasabing Big 3 (dapat pa nga sama dito ang USTe gawa ng kasama sila sa ranking nung top universities nung may Asiaweek ranking pa, pero ibang usapan na 'yan...) Dahilan na rin sa matinding kapasidad ng mga magaaral at alumni ng tatlong paaralang ito na gumastos kapag panahon ng UAAP para tuloy nalilimutan ang ibang liga, na hindi naman dapat dahil sa totoo lang halos lahat ng mga pinakamagagaling na manlalaro ngayon ng UAAP galing sa lalawigan at nahasa at na-discover sa mga ibang liga at laro. 'Yun nga lang, gawa ng dami ng tumatangkilik sa UAAP tila yata mas malaki pang kita nila kaysa sa PBA, at halata ding ang UAAP ang isa sa mga bumubuhay sa Studio 23.

Kaya na din siguro parang walang incentive na ayusin ang UAAP mula sa UAAP mismo, kasi nga naman malakas ang kabuhayan nila. Kung ganyan kagandang hanapbuhay hindi na halos makita na may mga suliranin na dapat ayusin, gaya ng pag-salvage duon sa paborito nating referee at sa pagpapadala sa Basra ng buong NABRO. Gawa na din nito tancha ko din na malabong pumayag mag-merge ang UAAP sa NCAA, dadami pang kahati sa ganansiya at dadami pang kailangang pakisamahan at kausapin kapag may mga gustong subukang pakulo gaya nung katarantaduhang No-Masters rule.

ESCALERA JR.
10-13-2006, 09:16 PM
I've thrown around this idea countless number of times...

I-merge na ang NCAA and UAAP. I just see no point in having two major collegiate athletics associations. Around now would be a good time to do it with both leagues seemingly having the same level of talent and exposure. Yes, maraming complications, but I think the pros in the long run outweight the short-term cons.

Yeah, this isn't related at all to the current controversies but I thought I'd mention this just to see if anyone else is with me. ;D

That has been the clamor of many hardcore hoopsters for years, and now that both leagues are more or less toe to toe in terms of popularity, this would be such a welcome idea.

Maybe one reason merging seems to be an impossibilty is that one league seems to be raking in more money and sponsors than the other, or that merging of both ManCom could create problems on finances, profit-sharing, and Scheduling not to mention conflicting interest, clashes in profile etc... i think the best way is both UAAP and NCAA stay put as individual leagues.

But with their schedule almost simultaneous with just a week or two difference, maybe some bigtime company such as ABS-CBN can bankroll a finals championship game between the 2 rival entities.

Sa gayon, walang babaguhin sa takbo ng scheduling, UAAP/NCAA runs its normal course until the end of its respective tournament wherein each league declares their Winners. (Read: NBA's EASTvs WEST)

Eto ngayon ang paglalabanan nila...on who would finally emerge as the true varsity Champion between the UAAP and NCAA...
sana simulan na next season !!!.

easter
10-14-2006, 10:18 AM
Possible Scenarios of a merger between the UAAP and the NCAA.

http://hoops.blink.ph/2006/10/14/uaap-ncaa-merger-deal-or-no-deal/

Sam Miguel
10-24-2006, 08:49 PM
Getting PBL referees would be good.

And I agree: the eligibility rules should be strictly enforced. We keep focusing on high profile programs like Lasalle and Ateneo and even UP. I wonder how many real, class-attending, homework-doing, project-submitting, deadline-beating, recitation-nervous students are on the rosters of other schools?

bit_bang_boom
10-26-2006, 01:08 AM
Possible Scenarios of a merger between the UAAP and the NCAA.

http://hoops.blink.ph/2006/10/14/uaap-ncaa-merger-deal-or-no-deal/


Thanks for the link. Interesting thoughts...
I apologize for having brought up this issue that's really a long ways away compared to most of the more immediate concerns that are being discussed here, but I believe that this is important down the road. :)

I originally just wanted the UAAP and the NCAA to merge. This would result in more teams, more games, more competition. Then I realized that this wouldn't be healthy for the student athletes. Then I realized that the logistics for organizing such a big league with so many teams would be nigh impossible. Then I realized that I had forgotten to put into account the other sports that just don't "work" the same way (e.g., swimming, track & field).

As for the traditional one-team-versus-another-per-game sports, why not just adopt the system that the US NCAA employs? Why not have our very own version of March Madness?The UAAP would be one division and the NCAA would be another. The top teams from each then go into a single-elimination knock-out tourney to determine the overall champ. Then I thought, why not involve a few more other collegiate leagues from around the country as well? Just have the teams from each league battle amongst themselves before bringing the top teams from each division together for a true national tourney? True, this would effectively make the CCL (as well as two other tourneys, I believe) moot, but then at least the eventual champion of this format would have a lot more legitimacy.

As for the swimming and track & field, that's why there are qualifiers. And for the martial arts? Just one big tourney ought to do it.

Obviously, my suggestion is a lot more difficult to implement than it appears - easier said than done, but I believe the pros outweight the cons in the long run. And it's a whole lot easier than just mashing all of the leagues together and maintaining the current format.

Wang-Bu
10-27-2006, 01:51 PM
Huwag gawing palitan ang Commissioner, pagkasunduan na ng Board ang isang tao at siya ay gawing Commissioner ng at least tatlong taon, sa gayon ay mas may kasiguruhan na tuloy-tuloy at consistent ang mga palakad. Ganun na din sa Technical Committee, gawin ng fulltime at mas pangmatagalan.

bluewing
11-01-2006, 02:11 AM
alisan ng power ang board. ipahawak nila sa isang neutral commission ang LAHAT ng internal affairs ng liga (lagyan nila ng kano; pag puro pinoy, nagiging gaguhan e. tignan nyo ngayon) . yung board, purely representation lang (yung iba naman dyan ay walang alam sa basketball.).

at syempre, bumuo sila ng isang pool of referees na exclusive lang sa UAAP. dapat may halong mga kano para praning gumawa ng kalokohan (deportation). pag puro pinoy, walang mangyayari talaga.

sana rin ay magkaroon ng "retro jerseys."

danny
11-02-2006, 04:28 AM
Any neutral body can easily be manipulated by a determined fanatic. ;D

It's all about strict implemenation of the rules by any governing entity.

Isn't it sad that that many do not trust the UAAP Board which is composed of representatives from the different schools? How did we come to this?

oca
11-02-2006, 11:48 AM
Any neutral body can easily be manipulated by a determined fanatic. ;D

It's all about strict implemenation of the rules by any governing entity.

Isn't it sad that* that many do not trust the UAAP Board which is composed of representatives from the different schools? How did we come to this?




Sa pagkakatanda ko, matiwasay na nabubuhay ang Board nuong araw. Nagsimulang maglamat yan sa panahon na mag-apply ang DLSU for membership. Later, it was aggravated when eligibility issues about DLSU players enrolled at Benilde first surfaced.

When DLSU first applied, UAAP rules required for the unanimous vote by all members for a new school to be admitted. Ilang beses nag-apply ang DLSU - hindi pumasa.

Pero may "sympathizer" ang DLSU who proposed an amendment to the "unanimous vote rule".

Ito ang siste....changes to rules can be passed by a simple majority vote. Naipasa ang bagong rule at napalitan yung "unanimous vote rule".

Sa madaling salita, dahil sa "amendment", natanggap ang DLSU. Pero hindi nagustuhan ng ilang miembro yung buong pangyayari. Dito nagsimula magkaroon ng "kampihan".

Then, dumating yung kaso nila Limpot, Cardel at Mariano. Supposedly enrolled at Benilde, but playing for DLSU. Sa simula, it was not considered an "anomaly". But it came to the attention of the UAAP Board that Benilde now has its own Board of Trustees, which in effect made it a separate institution from DLSU.

Simply, a corporation or school cannot have two sets of Board of Directors or Trustees.

Dahil napatunayang may sariling Board ang Benilde, it follows it is a separate and distinct juridical entity from DLSU. Kaya ang naka-enroll duon ay hindi pwede maglaro for any other school- kahit DLSU pa yan.

Kaso, sa simula, nangatwiran ang DLSU and defended it self. Ang punto nila, Benilde was put up as a "special program" by DLSU, and hence was part of the latter. Okay, sabi ng ilang miembro ng UAAP Board, pero...pero...when Benilde instituted its own Board of Trustees, it cease to become a college under DLSU.

Komento pa raw ng isang UAAP Board member, para naman daw silang ginagawang tanga ng representative ng DLSU.

It was deliberated kung anong sanction ang ibibigay sa DLSU. We all know, on that issue -- wala. At duon lalong nagalit yung mga unang tutol sa pagpasok ng DLSU. Naging mas malalim na ngayon yung hidwaan.

Yung hidwaan na yun ang simula ng pagbabago sa pananaw ng ilang school representative sa UAAP Board.

Whereas, before, the interest of the league takes precedence over the school. Ngayon, baligtad na. If "my school" is at a disadvantage- tutol, kahit na sa ikakabuti ng liga.

I am not saying DLSU ang puno't dulo ng kasalukuyang 'di magandang perception sa UAAP Board. But if we are to draw a timeline and pinpoint the period when it all started, it did happened during the years DLSU applied and the events that took place during the first few years of its membership.

Of course, it didn't help that within a very short period DLSU became a dominant team in UAAP basketball. Selos at inggit compounded what ever ill-feelings that were existing.

Ayun, lalong naging parang talangka ang mga usapan sa Board.

Kung hahanapan niyo yan ng lunas, palagay ko dapat magkaroon ng panukala na---

1. Sa takdang panahon, lahat ng UAAP member schools ay magkaroon ng bagong kinatawan na hindi pa nanungkulan sa UAAP organization itself in any capacity.

2. Ang edad ay hindi hihigit sa 50 years old. Kung pwedeng mas bata, mas mabuti.

Yung una, dahil malamang, pag galing sa labas ng kasalukuyang UAAP organization, walang matinding prejudice. Sa ikalawa, magkaroon ng bagong pananaw ang Board.

Tanong, magpapanukala ba ang kasalukuyang Board na alisin ang sarili nila sa pwesto?* ??? ??? :o :o ;D ;D

danny
11-03-2006, 03:30 AM
Then the case of revamping the UAAP Board in particluar and the UAAP in general* seems hopeless since the preceived root cause of the problem cannot be cured by mere cosmetic surgery.

The UAAP was founded as a reaction to the seeming commercialization of the old NCAA. Now it is not just commodification that scarred the UAAP but the never ending drama of power politcs.

How long will this drama last? For as long as profits are coming in?

oca
03-24-2007, 02:53 PM
Here' a suggestion to kick start positive changes on the UAAP Board composition.

Eto para sa ADMU, DLSU at UP (Alphabetical yan, ah.). Alam ko this summer the Board will meet twice. Baka isa sa inyo ay pwede itong pasimulan----

Propose this amendment to the UAAP By-Laws:

Each school representative can sit at the UAAP Board and Mancom for a cummulative period of 4 years only.

Yes, propose term limits. If 4 is deemed too short, make it 5 or 6, Just set a limit. This will ensure you do away with the collective regressive thinking of the Board.

As it is, malabo mabago ang collective thinking ng Board. Pero duon dapat magsimula ang pagbabago. Of course some current school rep will not vote for it. That's expected. So, here's the key. Bring it to the next level.

Can the University Presidents of Ateneo, DLSU and UP talk to their other 5 counterparts. Convince them to instruct their rep to vote in favor of this "term limit"?

Proposed changes to the UAAP By-Laws are passed via majority vote. Kung simple majority lang, with 8 members, 5 is the magic number. Tatlo na kayo. Maybe you can convince and bring 2 more to your side.

Walang "personal financial vested interest" ang mga Presidents ng mga Pamantasan na kasapi sa UAAP. Kaya naniniwala ako na mas malinaw ang pag-iisip ng mga iyan. Makikita nila ang kabutihan ng term limits. Campaign at this level. Tell the university Presidents that a school can't be devoid of able men or women that their rep to the UAAP can't be replaced periodically.

I believe pwedeng lumusot ang term limits.

Take note this is a term limit. Not fixed term. A school can replace their rep anytime they want, but must do so when their current rep has been there for 4 cummulative years. I emphasize cummulative here. Dahil baka may "old boys club" din yan sa mga pamantasan nila at sila-sila na lang ang maghalinhinan.

As a transitory provision for those currently sitting at the Board. Those who have been there for less than 4 years, let them sit another 4. Those with a tenure of more than 4 but less than 8, let then stay for another 2. Those who have been there for over 8 years, give them another year.

Now, what if even with term limits, a school appoints another with an 81% liquid content inside the skull ? Well, at least you know he won't be staying there until retirement.

Of course we can pray na kunin na siya ni.... ;D ;D ;D

admu14
03-24-2007, 03:27 PM
the Zebras!

pachador
03-24-2007, 11:54 PM
the "typical" filipino personalty(if there was one) does not lend itself well to a monolithic sports body, e.g. unify the UAAP and NCAA, because everyone wants to be a president or director or boss, and because of this, its better to have as many athletic leagues as possible* ;D* *,* then create a federation or umbrella whose function , among other things, is to gather the bosses of the various athletic leagues once or twice a year to do the following specific things:
1.) organize a tournament of champions where the champions of the various leagues meet. Lipa is already doing this with the champions league, but this needs to be institutionalized and enlarged to allow more champion teams or finalists to join specially from the provinces.
2.) move all the school league tournaments to later in the first semester and finishing in the 2nd semester so that a stronger junior national team can be formed for the FIBA tournaments which are usually in july to september. If the PBA can change their schedule* ,then more so the schools which are "supposedly" held to a higher standard.

What I suggested above is exactly what I also suggest to the PBL, NBC, MVBA, PBA, and other commercial leagues, i.e. that the commercial leagues have an umbrella body just for the purpose of organizing an "Club" championship pitting the champions and finalist of the NBC, MVBA, PBL, , etc agaisnt each other.

Ideally, the amateur national team that should be fielded in the future to the minor international torunaments such as the ASEAN games should be a combination of the best from the school and commercial leagues.

nel
03-25-2007, 05:16 PM
What is it that makes being a board member so attractive? The perks? The power? The ticket scalping? I've noticed that there's a lot of osmosis of old, traditional values on the board from old incumbent members to the new reps, and only those with a real backbone are impervious to the "protect the old boys' club" mentality.

How about requiring all current and prospective board members to have competed in any sport in a league more or less the size of the UAAP for them to be qualified to sit on the board? Those who have only vicarious experience, insignificant experience (being a water boy doesn't count), or theoretical knowledge of sporting competitions (reading the rule book, if at all) should be disqualified - how can they know what it takes to manage or be a participant in a sports event if they've never been a competitor? Barangay tournaments, intrams, and other bush leagues shouldn't count because the scale and number of events and competitors won't approximate what the UAAP has.

In the corporate world, I would never appoint someone as sales head if that person never had any sales experience. Why should it be different in the UAAP? Let's have only those who truly know what it means to be in sports as UAAP board members, and have a real professional sports management organization manage the day-to-day operations over the years. This way, we can ensure consistency and continuity in implementation of rules. The board should confine itself to strategic issues such as general policy, and leave implementation to professional sports managers. This will ensure standardization of processes such as eligibility confirmation, protest handling, ticket distribution (and elimination of ticket scalping) and other matters.

In the PBA, the board doesn't rule on protests. In the PBL, the team owners leave the operations to the team of Commissioner Chino Trinidad. Both leagues work just fine, and we don't hear complaints about irregular decisions or bias for any team. Offshore, the NBA is run by Commissioner David Stern who is beholden to no owner and even levies fines on team owners. The NBA is one of the most-followed sports leagues around the world because of the way it is professionally run, and consequently its entertainment value is very high. The US NCAA is also run by an independent body. So why is the UAAP closely supervised by the board?

And let's do away with this bs about all board decisions being "unanimous". If there are dissenting votes, let the general UAAP public know how the representatives from the different schools stand on various issues.

nel
05-23-2007, 12:27 PM
Many of us have our own observations on how the UAAP has been run in the past. If you had the power to make the changes, what would they be?

Let me start with:

1. A fixed term for board members (# of years they can serve in total - 3?). New blood/ideas are direly needed
2. A sports management organization to run the tournaments. The board keeps its grimy hands off the games
3. Transparency in how schools vote on issues. That 'unanimous' vote is a lot of crap
4. More emphasis on other sports (package tv coverage to include at least all championship games in all sports)

What are yours?

oca
05-23-2007, 01:17 PM
Many of us have our own observations on how the UAAP has been run in the past. If you had the power to make the changes, what would they be?

Let me start with:

1. A fixed term for board members (# of years they can serve in total - 3?). New blood/ideas are direly needed
2. A sports management organization to run the tournaments. The board keeps its grimy hands off the games
3. Transparency in how schools vote on issues. That 'unanimous' vote is a lot of crap
4. More emphasis on other sports (package tv coverage to include at least all championship games in all sports)

What are yours?


Magpapanukala ba ang mga yan na tanggalin ang sarili nila sa pwesto?

Siempre hindi!

Kaya dalhin sa itaas ang panukala.

Talk... convince... appeal....pressure the University Presidents and Regents to agree in imposing term limits on school reps to the UAAP Board and ManCom. When they agree, they can simply issue direct order to the school's UAAP rep to vote in favor term limits when it is presented to the UAAP Board for resolution.

Pero, kung sa Board mismo manggagaling... asa ka pa!

Pag na-convince ng bawat school community ang kanilang University Pres/ Regents to agree on these term limits on UAAP reps, saka niyo pag-usapan ang ibang pang dapat baguhin.

Until then, all these clamor for change in the Board, will remain just that...

muddatrucker
05-23-2007, 02:29 PM
3. Transparency in how schools vote on issues. That 'unanimous' vote is a lot of crap

AMEN to this, especially the bolded part.

I want the UAAP Board to be consistent in implementing rules, not only regarding the sports, players and schools but also among themselves.

john_paul_manahan
05-23-2007, 10:31 PM
to put it simply.... standardized rules that are not biased...

Wingman
05-25-2007, 07:10 AM
I'd like to see FEU change their board member. Montinola has done a lot of damage to the institution. Talk about Locsin rule, Allado rule, Cardona rule and now Rivera rule. What's next?

MonL
05-25-2007, 08:19 AM
I'd like to see FEU change their board member.* Montinola has done a lot of damage to the institution.* Talk about Locsin rule, Allado rule, Cardona rule and now Rivera rule.* What's next?


For the uninitiated or ignorant* here in this forum (like me) on these UAAP rules, or posters whose teams play in other collegiate leagues,* what are these rules? Please include the Lago Brothers rule as well.

Thanks.

EDIT TO ADD: Or perhaps let's create a separate thread enumerating all these controversial (read that: ridiculous) UAAP rules over the years and their consequences. Thanks again.

GHRanger
05-25-2007, 09:56 AM
In a nutshell and please do correct me or add if I am wrong:

Lago Brothers Rule : Only 20% of the team playing at one time (i.e. 1 of 5) may be foreigners.* The Lago brothers, although legit Filipinos, hold US passports.

Noli Locsin Rule : The team may only include players who come from the same branch / campus.* In the case of Locsin, he studied at that time at CSB (less than a 100m away from DLSU.)* In the same way, UP Manila students may not be part of the Diliman men's BB Team.

Don Allado Rule : You may not play for the UAAP if you have been drafted by a pro league.* Eventhough you have not actually reported for work or drawn income as a result of your drafting.

MacMac Cardona Rule : NOT SURE ABOUT THE RIGHT CONDITIONS ON THIS ONE.* You must serve residency of 1 (or is it 2 years) in the Philippines, If you come from a HS BB program from another country.

Jai Reyes Rule : You cannot get the ROY plum if you are not a TRUE college freshman.

Soc Rivera Rule : If you come from a UAAP HS BB Program, You must redshirt for 1 year if you have not secured a release from your HS.* Other HS / NCAA schools are exempt from this rule.

Gerwin Gaco Rule : Masteral Students may not play in the UAAP. Period.* If they want to exhaust their 5 years, then take another course I guess.

Kung may kulang pakidagdag na lang. :) :D :D :D Salamat!

BigBlue
05-25-2007, 10:35 AM
should it really be called the Gerwin Gaco rule? Or maybe the Axel Doruelo/Mika Vainio/Mike Gavino rule? i recall that they were the last "masteral-transferees" to have made big impacts in the UAAP.

bluegirl
05-25-2007, 10:38 AM
Gerwin Gaco Rule : Masteral Students may not play in the UAAP. Period. If they want to exhaust their 5 years, then take another course I guess.


actually, if i'm not mistaken, pwde ka mag masters if u want to exhaust your 5 years. ang hindi pwde eh papasok ka as a rookie-veteran tapos mag-masters ka.

bluewing
05-25-2007, 11:47 AM
change the board

oca
05-25-2007, 12:31 PM
change the board


Marami na nag naghayag ng pagnanais na palitan ang Board.

Tanong...

PAANO?

shyboy
05-25-2007, 12:36 PM
Change everything! *From the Board, to the rules and guidelines. *Rebuild everything from scratch. *The intention is to build a clear, concise, unadulterated set of rules for the league to be run by fair academicians. *Dapat parang may mga bagong magulang na may unang sanggol. *It'll be handled with care. *Ang UAAP ngayon parang matandang panay retoke na sa buong katawan. *Think Michael Jackson at age 70.

oca
05-25-2007, 12:45 PM
Paano?

How could it be done?

Do we wait for the Board's next meeting then, when they are all seated, lock the room from the outside and set the venue to flames?

Or, do we hire the same assasins who did those killings in Ilocos this past election and give them the names, home and office addresses of the Board Members?

Everytime the UAAP Board comes up with something "unpopular", many cry for a change in its composition. Lintek, wala namang makapagsabi kung paano gagawin!

GHRanger
05-25-2007, 01:29 PM
Gerwin Gaco Rule : Masteral Students may not play in the UAAP. Period.* If they want to exhaust their 5 years, then take another course I guess.


actually, if i'm not mistaken, pwde ka mag masters if u want to exhaust your 5 years. ang hindi pwde eh papasok ka as a rookie-veteran tapos mag-masters ka.


I think the classic example for what you said is Bobby Diloy. Deretso Masters. (He was ROY at that time, i think) But at that time, it wasn't contested. I think you are right to say that the influx of impact players taking masteral (i.e. Gaco, Vainio, et al) caused this rule to be in effect. But the practice of having masteral students, i was told, is already a trend in the UAAP even before this but mostly in other sports.

Ngayon kasi kung 4 years grad ka na tapos Masters for the last year, di pwede.
Pag lipat ka as masters to another school, di din pwede.

Ano ang effect: Some of the players now have taken a second course in the university just to extend to 5 years. Instead of taking the normal route of Bachelors Deg --> Masters Deg, they take the Bachelors Deg --> 2nd Bachelors Deg.

GHRanger
05-25-2007, 01:34 PM
Or, do we hire the same assasins who did those killings in Ilocos this past election and give them the names, home and office addresses of the Board Members?


I like this one! But not all of the Board members... just the right ones. :D:D:D

I agree with your sentiments pareng Oca. Paano?
I remember your warning dati nung kataasan pa ng suspension ng DLSU. It shouldn't be DLSU who should be wary regarding the board but the whole UAAP.

I think the best and easiest way is through the press. But it has to be a concerted effort of many students, faculty and administrator of all member schools. Mahirap paisaisa-- lalabas sourgraping.

oca
05-28-2007, 10:25 AM
Or, do we hire the same assasins who did those killings in Ilocos this past election and give them the names, home and office addresses of the Board Members?


I like this one!* But not all of the Board members... just the right ones. :D:D:D

I agree with your sentiments pareng Oca.* Paano?
I remember your warning dati nung kataasan pa ng suspension ng DLSU.* It shouldn't be DLSU who should be wary regarding the board but the whole UAAP.*

I think the best and easiest way is through the press.* But it has to be a concerted effort of many students, faculty and administrator of all member schools.* Mahirap paisaisa-- lalabas sourgraping.


I agree that's the best way, but not necessarily the easiest. Infact walang madaling paraan akong nakikita.

If the help of some columnist even publishers can be solicited, pwede ring mangyari yan in defense of the preserving the status quo.

Just take note of this - IT'S ALL ABOUT NUMBERS. Any changes will have to be voted upon. Rule is ONE HALF PLUS ONE.

We can safely assume that ADMU, DLSU and UP will agree on progressive changes. Particularly on setting term limits on school rep to the UAAP Board.

Now, is this an issue w/c will have 7 members voting and make the host vote only in case of a tie?

If yes, then isang boto na lang ang kailangan.

If ADMU, DLSU and UP will make a united effort, they just have to convince ONE university President, or the family who has control of the other schools. Isa lang lang ang kailangang i-identify to effect changes in the composition of the Board via term limits.

Just one vote.

If they have that, the Univ. Pres. or owners will just have to give a direct order to the school rep to the UAAP to vote for this rule changes, eg term limits.

Now, why not start with Lucio Tan/ UE. He may be elusive, but he is a man na madaling kausap. Right there and then, malalaman niyo kung makukuha niyo ang panig niya on imposing term limits.

I am sure there must be am alumnus or alumnae from the blue, green or maroon who has has access to Lucio Tan's office. Why not ask that person to serve as a conduit and he/she may arrange for a meeting.

Gaya ng sabi mo, pareng GHRanger, concerted effort ang kailangan. Make that effort in getting that additional one vote.

ISA LANG.

Mateen Cleaves
05-28-2007, 10:50 AM
actually, if i'm not mistaken, pwde ka mag masters if u want to exhaust your 5 years. ang hindi pwde eh papasok ka as a rookie-veteran tapos mag-masters ka.


No. Not anymore. If you've graduated and you still have playing years left, your only option is to take a second undergraduate degree. You cannot even take up, presumably harder, graduate-level subjects to fill up your course load. Kung hindi ako nagkakamali merong Adamson (or was it UST) player na sumabit sa ganitong technicality last year.

5FootCarrot
05-28-2007, 03:03 PM
Mateen, I understand that it's been clarified with the UAAP Board (or they've relaxed the regulation or something) so that athletes who graduated on time and want to play out their remaining years of eligiblity are now allowed to pursue a master's degree, provided that they do this in the university where they earned their undergraduate degree. Yung bawal na talaga yung magma-masters sa ibang paaralan para lang makalaro pa.

EDIT: Forgot to add - The rule was implemented the way you interpreted it last year. I think what I described above takes effect this season only.

Jump_Shooter
05-28-2007, 07:48 PM
^Correct. Last year, players like Nestor David, those who graduated on time, had to take a second degree to play out their final year. This year, masteral students are allowed once more, but only if they suit up for the same school where they played their first four years.

Just a reminder, guys, before things get really heated: try not to bash the baord members too much. Mga tao din sila. :)

danny
05-29-2007, 03:16 AM
A united front from UP, Ateneo and La Salle is the only to do it.

UP asserted it's leadership against the supposed commercialization of the NCAA before. What is stopping UP now?

Kung gustong pilayin ang UAAP dahil sa mga engot na rules na naipasa ng Board, aba yang tatlong yan, sapat na.

Pero kung ayaw, pasensya na lang. Tiisin na lang ang UAAP Board hanggang kaya.

Bakit aasa sa existing UAAP Board para baguhin nila ang sarili nila? Sila nga ang dahilan ng lahat ng yan. ;D

Mateen Cleaves
05-29-2007, 05:54 AM
Mateen, I understand that it's been clarified with the UAAP Board (or they've relaxed the regulation or something) so that athletes who graduated on time and want to play out their remaining years of eligiblity are now allowed to pursue a master's degree, provided that they do this in the university where they earned their undergraduate degree. Yung bawal na talaga yung magma-masters sa ibang paaralan para lang makalaro pa.

EDIT: Forgot to add - The rule was implemented the way you interpreted it last year. I think what I described above takes effect this season only.


Thanks. I didn't know that. It's a surprisingly reasonable change of policy. Makes one think that there's still some hope for the Board, after all. :)

david64
05-29-2007, 07:05 AM
^^^ I can only think that somebody is planning to use the "master's" rule this year, or soon.

I understand that some schools will use this already, and to be honest, I was told that this rule would be OK'd this year, as early as late last year, I think.

That still does not take away from the fact that the rule was originally a reaction to GACO being recruited by La Salle-which shows that the UAAP Board allowed itself to be used in the past in an anti-La Salle ruling. If this rule is a GOOD RULE now, it was a GOOD Rule even then.

Another thing, La Salle is NEVER formally informed by the Board as to new rulings: the new 15 man line-up, the "Soc Rivera" rule, and this Master's rule. I don't know how they expect a member school (still a member, remember?) to keep within the rules if there is no advise as to changes.

Kid Cubao
05-29-2007, 07:26 AM
you know what, there would not have been any gaco rule in the first place if the player in question turned out to be no better than PJ walsham. in his two seasons at la salle, jerwin gaco was one of the scrappiest and most courageous big men to play in the UAAP even if he's no more than 6'2. he took on the hardest assignments and provided rebounding strength to la salle. tingin ko talaga inggit ang dahilan kung bakit ito ipinatupad.

casual_observer
05-29-2007, 09:44 AM
basta for me, if there is a way to oust Anton Montinola and his minions in the UAAP board from their respective positions, gawin na kaagad dahil sagad sa baho ang reputasyon ng mga yan as far as how the league got affected with their stupid rules are concerned.

nakakapagtaka lang. it seems like FEU, NU, Adamson, UST and UE make the rules in the UAAP while UP, Ateneo and La Salle just bear the consequences of the stupidity that the other five members do without saying anything against the rules passed by the "non-Ivy League schools" (except in the case of the Rivera Rule wherein UP and Ateneo reps blatantly opposed the move by FEU, UST, NU and Adamson). ganyan ba ang kalakaran sa UAAP ngayon?

GHRanger
05-29-2007, 10:38 AM
^ Unfortunately -- Yes. Boardroom decisions are most common in the UAAP. From championships, to rules, to declare if a player has broken a record, to eligibility.

Bottomline, it's still a battle of numbers. No matter how hard the 3 schools out of 8 rally and shout for their cause, it's still going to be 5 - 3 -- i.e. 50% + 1. And no matter how civil and professional and transparent you are to the board, they still give you cr@p (sorry mods.)

Oca is right in saying we need to convince only 1 school in order to raise hell in the board. UE and/or UST is an obvious choice.

Jump_Shooter
05-29-2007, 04:47 PM
merging with the "What changes would yo like to see in the UAAP" thread.

danny
05-30-2007, 12:52 AM
In a nutshell and please do correct me or add if I am wrong:

Lago Brothers Rule : Only 20% of the team playing at one time (i.e. 1 of 5) may be foreigners.* The Lago brothers, although legit Filipinos, hold US passports.

Noli Locsin Rule : The team may only include players who come from the same branch / campus.* In the case of Locsin, he studied at that time at CSB (less than a 100m away from DLSU.)* In the same way, UP Manila students may not be part of the Diliman men's BB Team.

Don Allado Rule : You may not play for the UAAP if you have been drafted by a pro league.* Eventhough you have not actually reported for work or drawn income as a result of your drafting.

MacMac Cardona Rule : NOT SURE ABOUT THE RIGHT CONDITIONS ON THIS ONE.* You must serve residency of 1 (or is it 2 years) in the Philippines, If you come from a HS BB program from another country.

Jai Reyes Rule : You cannot get the ROY plum if you are not a TRUE college freshman.

Soc Rivera Rule : If you come from a UAAP HS BB Program, You must redshirt for 1 year if you have not secured a release from your HS.* Other HS / NCAA schools are exempt from this rule.Gerwin Gaco Rule : Masteral Students may not play in the UAAP. Period.* If they want to exhaust their 5 years, then take another course I guess.

Kung may kulang pakidagdag na lang. :) :D :D :D Salamat!


Thanks GH for this summary.

Pwede ba kung gagawa din lang nga "Soc Rivera rule" and UAAP Baord, isama na din ang mga non-UAAP member HS. :D

danny
05-30-2007, 01:15 AM
change the board


Tsong, it seems that this position assumes that the Board members vote independently from the School's official line. Ergo, a dichotomy between the position of the school representative and the school itself.

Is this really the case?

hmmmm....

flsfnoeraekadad
05-30-2007, 11:54 PM
change the board


Marami na nag naghayag ng pagnanais na palitan ang Board.

Tanong...

PAANO?
Start with the head of the serpent. Uh you already guess who it is.

casual_observer
05-31-2007, 12:22 AM
^ but that would require a coup from within his own institution, i.e. the stockholders would have him fired from his job, thus he too would be removed from his post in the UAAP board. ;D

bluewing
05-31-2007, 12:29 AM
change the board


Tsong, it seems that this position assumes that the Board members vote independently from the School's official line. Ergo, a dichotomy between the position of the school representative and the school itself.

Is this really the case?

hmmmm....



dude, what i meant was change the very institution which is the UAAP board. start from scratch. ayusin ang guidelines, internal rules and regulations, composition, tenure, etc. instead of its traditional image of being "the old boys' club," gawan ng paraan na ma-inject-an ng new blood. "young men's club" na dapat. t's our time! :)

jarthel
05-31-2007, 03:39 PM
what is needed is a professional body to run UAAP!

not a board whose members are picked by the school.

casual_observer
05-31-2007, 08:25 PM
^ if we are to pass on the management of the UAAP to "professionals," which people should be tapped to run the organization and how should the organization be run? what will be the participation of the eight universities should such set-up will be adopted?

jarthel
06-01-2007, 07:50 AM
professionals? there are lots of acclaimed athletic-minded persons who I believe would accept the job of a UAAP "commissioner".

the schools could hire a "executive search" company to help finding the right person. At least this way, there is no bias.

And bias I believe is biggest thing that is wrong in the UAAP management.

But it still won't be enough. I believe in the US, the school presidents meet yearly to make/amend rules in regards to NCAA.

I believe it should be true for the "new" UAAP but rules must be made fairly/prudently. unlike now where rules can be made at a whim!!!

Howard the Duck
06-04-2007, 12:15 AM
In a nutshell and please do correct me or add if I am wrong:

Lago Brothers Rule : Only 20% of the team playing at one time (i.e. 1 of 5) may be foreigners. The Lago brothers, although legit Filipinos, hold US passports.

Noli Locsin Rule : The team may only include players who come from the same branch / campus. In the case of Locsin, he studied at that time at CSB (less than a 100m away from DLSU.) In the same way, UP Manila students may not be part of the Diliman men's BB Team.

Don Allado Rule : You may not play for the UAAP if you have been drafted by a pro league. Eventhough you have not actually reported for work or drawn income as a result of your drafting.

MacMac Cardona Rule : NOT SURE ABOUT THE RIGHT CONDITIONS ON THIS ONE. You must serve residency of 1 (or is it 2 years) in the Philippines, If you come from a HS BB program from another country.

Jai Reyes Rule : You cannot get the ROY plum if you are not a TRUE college freshman.

Soc Rivera Rule : If you come from a UAAP HS BB Program, You must redshirt for 1 year if you have not secured a release from your HS. Other HS / NCAA schools are exempt from this rule.

Gerwin Gaco Rule : Masteral Students may not play in the UAAP. Period. If they want to exhaust their 5 years, then take another course I guess.

Kung may kulang pakidagdag na lang. :) :D :D :D Salamat!

Actually, all of these rules are beneficial in the long run.

BigBlue
06-04-2007, 10:03 AM
^care to elaborate?

AnthonyServinio
06-04-2007, 12:53 PM
* * *THE UNIVERSITY of Santo Tomas is expected to formally introduce Edgardo "Ed" M. Cordero as the UAAP Commissioner for Season 70 at today's UAAP Board Meeting.

Wingman
06-04-2007, 02:50 PM
^^^ Is that post on topic?

lekiboy
06-04-2007, 03:34 PM
^^^ Is that post on topic?


bakit mo naman naitanong, wingman? it think it was just an update form mr. servinio...

true.blue
06-04-2007, 03:43 PM
There was a time when the NCAA and the UAAP were at their purest form - a real honest-to-goodness competition between proud schools' students-first-young-men who just happened to also love sports. *Then the intense competition and the quest for bragging rights became so compelling that massive recruitment became the rule of the day, intially from other metro manila schools, then from the provinces, and later from US schools. *The rules were presumably made as a collective attempt to level the playing field between the so-called-moneyed or influential schools and the rest. *But I think some of the rules are just too much.

If we simplify the objective of the UAAP to encouraging competition between real students of the schools and not just mercenaries, then we can probably do away with some of the rules:



Lago Brothers Rule : Only 20% of the team playing at one time (i.e. 1 of 5) may be foreigners.* The Lago brothers, although legit Filipinos, hold US passports. *Tanggalin na 'to. *If the foreigners are really enrolled in the school from 1st year onwards, and they are passing their classes, why not let them play? *Di naman kailangan all-Filipino ang UAAP.



Noli Locsin Rule : The team may only include players who come from the same branch / campus.* In the case of Locsin, he studied at that time at CSB (less than a 100m away from DLSU.)* In the same way, UP Manila students may not be part of the Diliman men's BB Team.. *This can stay to maintain the purity of real students of the particular school playing under the correct school name. *If CSB students insist on playing for DLSU or UP Manila for UP Diliman, then Ateneo can also play their Ateneo de Davao students, etc. *



Don Allado Rule : You may not play for the UAAP if you have been drafted by a pro league.* Eventhough you have not actually reported for work or drawn income as a result of your drafting. *I don't have any particular qualms pro or con about this rule. *I suppose this was implemented since they noticed Don Allado playing "safe" during his last year, for fear of injuring himself prior to playing for the pros; i may be wrong. *This rule could go; the player's playing intensity level should be the school's own lookout.


MacMac Cardona Rule : You must serve residency of 1 (or is it 2 years) in the Philippines, If you come from a HS BB program from another country.. *Take this out. *If the player honestly meets the criterion for passing the entrance tests of the Philippine school and he is really starting to study in that school, why not allow him to play immediately? *There are so many good Filams out there (not Filshams) and eventually the Philippine national team would benefit from having them around. *Let's face it: kids exposed to playing outside the country against bigger opponents can improve the quality of basketball in the country.


Jai Reyes Rule : You cannot get the ROY plum if you are not a TRUE college freshman. *Tama lang ito, in my opinion. *Let true freshmen compete against each other for the ROY plum, and not against veterans from schools' team B's or veterans recruited in their 2nd to 4th years of college.


Soc Rivera Rule : If you come from a UAAP HS BB Program, You must redshirt for 1 year if you have not secured a release from your HS.* Other HS / NCAA schools are exempt from this rule. *Meant to discourage pirating of players? *But it's a free country, isn't it and it's the right of any person to choose his school. * Tanggalin ito.


Gerwin Gaco Rule : Masteral Students may not play in the UAAP. Period.* If they want to exhaust their 5 years, then take another course I guess. * Tama lang. *This was subject to abuse. *Tama yung revised rule dito, i.e. if you've graduated on time after your fourth year, you should still be allowed to play your fifth year of eligibility by taking masters or another course. *Otherwise, we are discouraging diligent students from graduating on time. *Bawal lang dapat yung new recruit into a school through a masters' program. *

We should just make sure all student-athletes are actually enrolled in the minimum requried units per semester, actually attend their classes and meet the passing grades. *But how to check?

casual_observer
06-04-2007, 05:18 PM
^ sadly, as long as Anton Montinola and his cohorts have the numbers in the UAAP board, expect those rules to stay on and continue wreaking havoc in the league. besides, if there is really one action that would jump start all the much needed reforms in the UAAP, that would be the ouster of Anton Montinola.

Wingman
06-04-2007, 10:38 PM
^^^^Tama. Oust Montinola first before we even decide on amending rules. Parang dati nung Martial Law, people cannot go against Marcos coz he had the number. When Marcos was ousted, that is when the country began instituting reforms and making/amending laws. As long as Montinola is in the board, other schools (presumably La Salle, UP and Ateneo) cannot do anything coz Montinola has the numbers.

gfy
06-04-2007, 11:30 PM
True.Blue: I only have the following general comments:

1. There's a reason why the PBL allows only one Fil-Am per team.

2. Unlike leagues in the United States like the PAC-10 where each school is competitive with the others in terms of resources and so forth, here some schools are "more equal" than others. Ateneo and DLSU might as well put up their own league if you allow, for example, as many foreign students who play basketball as you like. This is also subject to abuse.

3. Unlike in the United States where almost all universities don't have their own high schools, here all the universities have their own high schools and usually have one athletic director for the entire university. Even in the United States, they have specific rules for recruiting high school athletes.

4. As long as there's only one board of trustees for a university system, even if they are spread out over so many campuses, I don't see any problem.

5. Residency requirements are sometimes necessary for various reasons. From Google, the US NCAA has basic rules but each conference can make their own rules. In PAC-10, a transferee has to sit out 2 full terms or 3 quarters. The player also loses a season of eligibility.

casual_observer
06-04-2007, 11:38 PM
^^^^Tama. Oust Montinola first before we even decide on amending rules. Parang dati nung Martial Law, people cannot go against Marcos coz he had the number. When Marcos was ousted, that is when the country began instituting reforms and making/amending laws. As long as Montinola is in the board, other schools (presumably La Salle, UP and Ateneo) cannot do anything coz Montinola has the numbers.

sadly, we cannot do that by ourselves. the only way for Anton Montinola to be ousted from the board is for him and his family (Reyes-Montinola group) to be effectively ousted from FEU by the combined forces of Henry Sy and other minority shareholders. if there will be a new majority in FEU, then it will be certain that Anton Montinola will be stripped of his posts as FEU board rep and team manager.

Howard the Duck
06-05-2007, 01:12 AM
^care to elaborate?

Lago brothers rule: This is the Philippines, and as much as possible, we should develop local talents, not scour the world for rejects.
Locsin rule: Have you seen a UNC-Wilmington player play for the Tar Heels?
Allado rule: The U.S. NCAA goes even stricter, you're not allowed to have an agent. College b-ball should be purely amateur.
Jai rule: IMHO we should lessen the indvidual awards. The term "Rookie" was only for pros only, collegians should use the term "freshman."
Gaco rule: IMHO all college players must be taking their undergrads.
Rivera rule: If old students-transfeerees should redshirt, why not new students (freshies)? These freshies should study anyway.

shyboy
06-05-2007, 08:28 AM
Jai rule: IMHO we should lessen the indvidual awards. The term "Rookie" was only for pros only, collegians should use the term "freshman."
Rivera rule: If old students-transfeerees should redshirt, why not new students (freshies)? These freshies should study anyway.


If the Rivera rule is extended to ALL freshmen, then there's no point for the Jai rule and the Rookie/Freshman of the Year. :)

yungha
06-05-2007, 10:04 AM
Jai rule: IMHO we should lessen the indvidual awards. The term "Rookie" was only for pros only, collegians should use the term "freshman."
Rivera rule: If old students-transfeerees should redshirt, why not new students (freshies)? These freshies should study anyway.


If the Rivera rule is extended to ALL freshmen, then there's no point for the Jai rule and the Rookie/Freshman of the Year.* :)


not exactly. some players only get to play as upperclassmen, ie magsumbol, aldeguer, valerio, etc of dlsu, laterre, escueta, nazareno, etc of Ateneo. physically, these older 19- to 20-year old players would have a distinct advantage over the typical still-maturing 16- to 17-year old fresh high school graduate.

shyboy
06-05-2007, 04:55 PM
Jai rule: IMHO we should lessen the indvidual awards. The term "Rookie" was only for pros only, collegians should use the term "freshman."
Rivera rule: If old students-transfeerees should redshirt, why not new students (freshies)? These freshies should study anyway.


If the Rivera rule is extended to ALL freshmen, then there's no point for the Jai rule and the Rookie/Freshman of the Year.* :)


not exactly. some players only get to play as upperclassmen, ie magsumbol, aldeguer, valerio, etc of dlsu, laterre, escueta, nazareno, etc of Ateneo. physically, these older 19- to 20-year old players would have a distinct advantage over the typical still-maturing 16- to 17-year old fresh high school graduate.


The Jai Reyes rule in essence says non-freshmen will be out of the running for ROY honors. Given that the new Soc Rivera rule, as explained by another poster here, forces ALL freshmen coming from a UAAP high school to redshirt for one year starting Season 71 (this year lang daw may exception kung may release na nakuha yung player), only non-UAAP high school stars will therefore be candidates for the ROY. Sophomores na kasi yung mga ex-UAAP HS stars kapag nakalaro na sila.

flsfnoeraekadad
06-05-2007, 06:24 PM
OnT what to change: THE SCHEDULE!!! :)

Howard the Duck
06-05-2007, 07:17 PM
Jai rule: IMHO we should lessen the indvidual awards. The term "Rookie" was only for pros only, collegians should use the term "freshman."
Rivera rule: If old students-transfeerees should redshirt, why not new students (freshies)? These freshies should study anyway.


If the Rivera rule is extended to ALL freshmen, then there's no point for the Jai rule and the Rookie/Freshman of the Year. :)

As you have a point but IMHO they should just remove these awards. in amateur ball kasi, its the TEAM that wins that counts. sa PBA at PBL na pagbibigay yan. Sa U.S. NCAA, 2 lang ang awards, MVP of the Final 4 at yung naismith award, excluding the all-conference awards.

walang defensive player, most improved, ROY, etc.

shyboy
06-05-2007, 07:35 PM
As you have a point but IMHO they should just remove these awards. in amateur ball kasi, its the TEAM that wins that counts. sa PBA at PBL na pagbibigay yan. Sa U.S. NCAA, 2 lang ang awards, MVP of the Final 4 at yung naismith award, excluding the all-conference awards.

walang defensive player, most improved, ROY, etc.


I agree with you on this. Many times the ROY awardee wasn't really spectacular to merit any citation.

atenean_blooded
06-05-2007, 07:45 PM
The venues.

true.blue
06-05-2007, 11:14 PM
The venues.


The other week, Ricky Palou said he was pushing for The Arena in San Juan.

casual_observer
06-05-2007, 11:36 PM
The other week, Ricky Palou said he was pushing for The Arena in San Juan.

isn't it a shame that the NCAA has a more decent venue (The Arena in San Juan) than the UAAP? ::)

OK sana yung The Arena in San Juan for smaller, non-blockbuster games but still we've got have relatively bigger alternate venues such as the Cuneta Astrodome, the Philsports Arena and the Blue Eagle Gym (at 7,500 seating capacity, i guess this is a much bigger place than the 4,000-seater The Arena, although the one in San Juan is more well ventilated) to host higher capacity games that the Araneta Coliseum cannot host due to conflict schedules and, perhaps, budget constraints.

kung meron man sigurong dapat gawin na event sa The Arena, yun ay ang Bantay Bata Benefit games. ;)

Howard the Duck
06-06-2007, 03:13 PM
Ang venues lang siguro na pwede sa mga Atenista ay BEG at da big dome ah :p

5FootCarrot
06-06-2007, 03:27 PM
Ang venues lang siguro na pwede sa mga Atenista ay BEG at da big dome ah :p
I wish you wouldn't generalize. If you read the discussions in this forum and in the BEN, not all the people airing concerns about the NAS are Ateneans (although OK, they're probably the most vocal), and not all Ateneans have problems with the games being held in the NAS.

atenean_blooded
06-06-2007, 05:17 PM
Ang venues lang siguro na pwede sa mga Atenista ay BEG at da big dome ah :p


Those are the best venues, of course.

But there's also ULTRA, and as people have pointed out, The Arena in San Juan. Both of which are light-years beyond the crappy state of NAS.

casual_observer
06-06-2007, 05:25 PM
OK. since marami dito sa atin ang umaangal sa naging choice of alternate venue for this season (Ninoy Aquino Stadium), mag-suggest kayo ng mga factors na dapat i-consider ng UAAP board when it comes to selecting an alternate venue and as to which game(s) should be played at the Araneta Coliseum (provided that may pera at hindi in conflict sa schedule ng isang pre-booked event sa Big Dome such as the PBA) and the selected alternate venue.


off-topic: atenean blooded, talaga bang wala nang way para ipaayos pa ng ADMU administration ang Blue Eagle Gym? the BEG is one of the more decent venues for the UAAP games, but it is just that the ventilation there SUCKS (sorry about that).

BigBlue
06-06-2007, 05:36 PM
hindi ako si blooded pero sasagot ako. I spoke to mr. capistrano once and he mentioned that it would be cheaper to demolish the BEG and to rebuild a new one rather than to renovate the current building. but then again, there's too much history in that structure that one wouldnt just tear it down just like that.

casual_observer
06-06-2007, 05:40 PM
hindi ako si blooded pero sasagot ako. I spoke to mr. capistrano once and he mentioned that it would be cheaper to demolish the BEG and to rebuild a new one rather than to renovate the current building. but then again, there's too much history in that structure that one wouldnt just tear it down just like that.

yun nga eh. there's so much history in the Blue Eagle Gym so sa halip na gibain at palitan ng bago ay i-renovate na lang. besides, Ateneo has a lot of willing alumni who will surely give to the cause, right? ;)

sana ma-realize yun ng administration. the Blue Eagle Gym is one decent venue for the UAAP games kung maaayos lang yung building, most especially the ventilation. the Ninoy Aquino Stadium could not have been considered as an alternate venue if the Blue Eagle Gym is very ready to host a UAAP game.

john_paul_manahan
06-06-2007, 06:32 PM
i think that if you really love the team and you really support it... you WILL find a way to get to that place. sure the BEG would be a good place, but if that is how the cards are dealt, then so be it.

pero if the board decides... well... it is up to them anyway...

true.blue
06-06-2007, 10:52 PM
yun nga eh. there's so much history in the Blue Eagle Gym so sa halip na gibain at palitan ng bago ay i-renovate na lang. besides, Ateneo has a lot of willing alumni who will surely give to the cause, right? ;)

sana ma-realize yun ng administration. the Blue Eagle Gym is one decent venue for the UAAP games kung maaayos lang yung building, most especially the ventilation. the Ninoy Aquino Stadium could not have been considered as an alternate venue if the Blue Eagle Gym is very ready to host a UAAP game.


Just as I posted in the other thread, if you held the Ateneo-UP game in BEG, tapos weekday pa, after classes, I would bet the place would be filled, even without aircon. Why can't the board see the benefit of collecting more ticket revenues in that example alone?

As to the BEG renovation, we've been looking at that for at least 5 years now. The amount involved is just staggering. Just to insulate the roof is a ton of money. Better to allocate scarce resources to more pressing problems like scholarships, financial assistance to students and teachers, etc. Unless we can find a way to make the project self-liquidating...

Howard the Duck
06-07-2007, 01:06 AM
actually maganda naman sa BEG ah, yun lang nga mainit, at mahirap mag-commute/puntahan.

Ang OK sa NAS madaling puntahan (para sa akin :P) at malamig daw.
Sa PhilSports malayo, ang Cuneta malayo, ang RMC maiinit. Saan ba ang The Arena? Makati Coliseum cockpit na... So Big Dome lang talaga... eh mahal ang renta doon ;D

Ngayon papasok ang host school, natural ang host school doon sa malapiit sa kanila ang venue, eh host ang sila. Sa 2006 World Cup ba may nakita kang naglaro ang Germany sa Argentina?! Wala :D

Ergo, sa Cuneta na lang sana. Kaya lang may bad memories daw ang UST doon. Kaya NAS. Pero sana Cuneta since malapit si host school :P

atenean_blooded
06-07-2007, 02:21 AM
The Blue Eagle Gym has been the subject of discussion for years, as some posters have pointed out. And as correctly stated, financial estimates say that it will be cheaper to demolish the present Blue Eagle Gym and build a new one. You won't even have to demolish much of it. You can remove the entire top and the arena area, and keep the present walls as basis for something (although it'll still be cheaper to start from scratch).

I've actually seen proposed changes for the Blue Eagle Gym. One of the plans (which I think can be seen by anyone with access to the Ateneo sports foundation promotional materials, circa 2004 or 2005, I think) was to tear down the gym, and build a circular arena, much like Araneta, which will allow for an upper box/bleachers, lower box, and patron/ringside configuration, as well as other training areas on the sides. Seating capacity will be increased by several hundred or even thousand (I think the present design can accomodate 8,000 people comfortably, almost 10,000 SRO), boosting seating capacity to around 10,000. The new design also allows for airconditioning, or at least a system of ventilation that relies on convection, sucking in the relatively cooler air from the outside and making the hot air exit from the top of the building. To make the project sustainable, and to recover the expenses of building the new gym, the proposal also included a bit about opening small cafes/restaurants along the sides of the gym, much like how Araneta currently has restaurants.

But then again, there's a lot of history behind the gym. The Blue Eagle Gym was the first structure built in Loyola Heights, in 1949. Its configuration, where the floor ran perpendicular to the gym's length, was unique. And before Schelde became the name in basketball goals, the BEG actually had its goals suspended from the ceiling (which explains those two steel frame things which are dangling from the ceiling above the end of each court), so that players wouldn't have to worry about crashing into goal posts (crashing into the stands instead ;D). It was the home of the NCAA and several other leagues, and has hosted countless events throughout its history. It was NEVER a hangar.

So you see, the Ateneo does expect a lot of the sentimental alumni to go up in arms if the gym is torn down for a new one to be built.

There were also plans for an Ateneo football grandstand to accomodate fans watching football games on Erenchun field.

These plans are all on hold.

Airconditioning and ventilation have long been proposed for the Blue Eagle Gym, the Church of the Gesu, and even Moro Lorenzo Sports Complex. Moro's much cooler than the Blue Eagle Gym, because the ventilation there works better. Manny Pangilinan has offered to foot the cost of installing, maintaining, and running an airconditioning system for the Church of the Gesu, but Fr. Nebres turned him down, because 1)just turning the system on for use will mean around Php10,000 a day in terms of aircon usage, 2)airconditioning, in spite of all the technological innovations, is still pretty bad for the environment, and 3)even if a 3rd party is willing to foot the bill, it is socially irresponsible on the part of the Ateneo to install airconditioning unless it is absolutely needed, which it isn't in the Church. Proposed instead for the BEG and COTG is a system of convection, as I pointed out above. The BEG will need air ducts and stuff like that installed, whereas the Gesu already has the ducts in place (the provisions for airconditioning can be used for that instead).

The BEG, I've been told, used to be much cooler. The key problem to ventilating the BEG is the fact that the University's Physical Plant and Security offices have been given the south side of the BEG as office space/storage, which means that the logical area where ventilation used to come from has been effectively cut off. The simplest way to restore proper ventilation to the BEG is to kick those two offices out, and tear down the small construction that has been placed there. The obvious problem would then be finding a place for those two departments.

And we can't afford to just keep mindlessly putting up structures in the Loyola Heights campus. Real estate is one of the university's most precious assets, and grass and trees are becoming rare in the metropolis.

I hate the vact that the BEG's terribly ventilated. I hate the fact that the chairs in the lower box areas are crap (they're older than me, though, except for the monobloc ones). But it's still the best campus athletic facility in the country, all of that aside. The equipment is still top-notch (although the bathrooms can use some sprucing up), it can accomodate large crowds, parking is available, and it's set in the best campus in the country, in one of the safest parts of the metropolis (Loyola Heights is safer than Manila. Period.). It's also accessible, being on a major thoroughfare that provides access to the north, south, east, and west of the metropolis, and is a train ride and a short walk away from most places in Manila.

Eagle_Eyes
06-07-2007, 07:46 AM
that was very enlightening blooded ;) personally, i'd like to keep the BEG structure itself and just spruce up the thing. we dont need to do it in one blow anyway. partial improvements over time should be more than welcome to everybody.

going back to the topic, here are some changes i'd like to see eventually (a number of them definitely might not be practical or realistic, but hell, we can dream right?):

1. more participating teams
2. a longer season (with more teams, this might be a given)
3. a more capable group of referees
4. no limit to the number of drums that can be used
5. a best-of-5 championship series
6. include high school and/or women's matches during regular play days (and not only during the latter part of the season)
7. include the halftime cheering sessions in television coverages
8. holding of the tournament after the rainy season (ex. sept-nov and the finals held early december)

GreenArrows
06-07-2007, 10:22 AM
Eagle_Eyes, allow me to put in my 2centavos worth for each change you proposed. My answers are in green.


that was very enlightening blooded ;) personally, i'd like to keep the BEG structure itself and just spruce up the thing. we dont need to do it in one blow anyway. partial improvements over time should be more than welcome to everybody.

going back to the topic, here are some changes i'd like to see eventually (a number of them definitely might not be practical or realistic, but hell, we can dream right?):

1. more participating teams - More teams would affect the whole sports calendar of the UAAP since these teams would also be participating in most, if not all, of the sports involved. However, I agree that maybe the UAAP can still expand by 2 more teams at the most

2. a longer season (with more teams, this might be a given) - Alas, longer seasons mean more expenses to be borne by the schools. In DLSU, we are already scrapping the bottom of the barrel of the school's budget where sports is NOT a priority. What more for the other schools?

3. a more capable group of referees - Ah, your dream is my dream. But haven't you noticed, regardless of whether the referees group is Barecom, Nabro, PBL, or this new group of Joe Lipa, MOST of the time, we still see the same faces? Are there just too few "qualified" referees that they are all in the various groups of referees? Sad indeed! That's why I usually don't participate in discussions of the referees. Because regardless of what referee association is used, I still see many of the usual faces - including the 'bad' ones. What the new BAP-SBP should do, is create a pool of referees who are thoroughly trained in the international FIBA rules and subject to review and continuing education before they are allowed to referee any BAP-SBP sanctioned league. That creates a BAP-SBP sanctioned form of quality control on game officiating. All amateur tournaments can draw on this pool of talent and be assured that the referees used are answerable to a high level of quality performance.

4. no limit to the number of drums that can be used - Now this I have to disagree. Unlimited number of drums would make for a truly noisy stadium. I remember the days in the old NCAA, when cheers (and jeers) dominated the game and NOT drums. Ah, the luxury of reminiscing the past. Again, the less funded schools will be drowned out by the sea of drums of the schools with bigger budgets during the games. Perhaps, reassessing the number of allowed drums should be had rather than allowing an unlimited number of drums.

5. a best-of-5 championship series - Now, you have it. Would make for a definitive champion team. No more 'lucky' teams. Remember, the longer a series, the more the talent and teamwork will come to fore.

6. include high school and/or women's matches during regular play days (and not only during the latter part of the season) - I agree with you on this also but even if possible, I doubt if the cost of logistics would allow those games to be held in the same venue where the men's games are held. Too expensive.

7. include the halftime cheering sessions in television coverages - Paging ABS-CBN! But realistically, how can the TV company sell TV spots for the halftime break if the cheering is shown in full. There will either be no more time for the ads OR there will be really really long half time breaks!

8. holding of the tournament after the rainy season (ex. sept-nov and the finals held early december) - Then the UAAP will now compete for air time with the PBA which already moved its own schedule to allow maximum coverage of the various college leagues.

Great post my friend. Good ideas nevertheless.

bluewing
06-07-2007, 11:14 AM
ang dami-dami nating lupa sa katipunan, e di magtayo ng magandang gym dun sa may gate 2.5 at i-maintain yung historic loyola center.

tutal, mas mura pala magpagawa ng bago eh...

basta wag nila alisin yung malaking blue eagle dun sa BEG. landmark na yun eh.

atenean_blooded
06-07-2007, 12:33 PM
Quick comments:

- EE and GA: My only worry about showing the halftime sessions is that we'll have to contend with logos again. I mean, the Nestle logo occupied what, 1/3 of the screen during halftime before? It might occupy 3/4 if we show the entire halftime thing.

- bluewing: Land mark or not, I've heard comments about that Blue Eagle. Apparently, the configuration is bad feng shui. The proper configuration for good feng shui would be an eagle, flying upward, facing from left to right. ;D

true.blue
06-07-2007, 12:57 PM
I never did like too many drums.* Drowns out the cheering or what's left of it through the years.

I am in favor of dual meets, just like the old days, when you could cheer for your school for both the high school and the college game.* That system fostered more school spirit too since the high school crowd and its solid cheering more than made up for the half hearted cheers of the college coeds and those who came from other high schools.* Of course the negative side of that practice in the 70s was that emotions ran too high such that the resective ROTC police of each school had to man the boundary between the two opposing camps behind the goals.* (Attendance-wise, I wonder if the UAAP today makes more money in ticket sales since theoretically they can have a 2x turnover on the non-reserved seats.)

Not sure now if this was addressed earlier, but there is a reason the basketball games, or indoor games in general, are held during the rainy season. Otherwise, when would you schedule the baseball, football and track & field events.

On the BEG, I am told that putting up cafes and the like at the venue in order to recoup some of the investment and daily expenses may not be possible.* It may have something to do with the terms of the donation of the land to the Jesuits in the beginning.

atenean_blooded
06-08-2007, 12:16 AM
I never did like too many drums. Drowns out the cheering or what's left of it through the years.

I am in favor of dual meets, just like the old days, when you could cheer for your school for both the high school and the college game. That system fostered more school spirit too since the high school crowd and its solid cheering more than made up for the half hearted cheers of the college coeds and those who came from other high schools. Of course the negative side of that practice in the 70s was that emotions ran too high such that the resective ROTC police of each school had to man the boundary between the two opposing camps behind the goals. (Attendance-wise, I wonder if the UAAP today makes more money in ticket sales since theoretically they can have a 2x turnover on the non-reserved seats.)

Not sure now if this was addressed earlier, but there is a reason the basketball games, or indoor games in general, are held during the rainy season. Otherwise, when would you schedule the baseball, football and track & field events.

On the BEG, I am told that putting up cafes and the like at the venue in order to recoup some of the investment and daily expenses may not be possible. It may have something to do with the terms of the donation of the land to the Jesuits in the beginning.


The land donation by the Tuasons? I'm sure that the Jesuits can work something out. I think the terms of the donation are that the university be non-profit. In which case, the operations of small commercial establishments will have to go into the upkeep and maintenance of the facility, which still meets those terms.

gfy
06-08-2007, 05:38 AM
It wasn't really totally donated. I think the Jesuits bought it cheap for something like 50 centavos per square meter.

GreenArrows
06-08-2007, 07:27 AM
I like the Blue Eagle Gym. Not only because of its history or the many stories I have about the place but in my personal opinion, being a real estate practitioner, I believe the design is greatly unique in itself and is INCOMPARABLE to any other sports venue in the country. Look at it! Though not very big, it's very imposing. If at all, it defines the ADMU campus! It's like it was really designed for UAAP and NCAA level type of competitions. I have yet to see any venue in our country that presents a perfect configuration for games that do not command Araneta Coliseum size crowds. Relatively smaller games, which draw supporters but not in the scale of Araneta games, will find a very fan friendly and visually pleasant environment in BEG. True, it's HOT!!!! VERY HOT for that matter. But I am never one to complain of the heat. As a matter of fact, the heat even leads to bringing the support crowd to higher levels of cheering! Though I can just imagine the effects on the players.

Improve the ventilation and/or aircondition the BEG and you will have one of the best designed sports venues in the country! Outside of that, and I am the last one in the world to suggest this, leave the BEG alone.

P.S. Oh yes, the bathrooms could stand some upgrading too.

animoateneo
06-10-2007, 01:19 PM
I like the Blue Eagle Gym. Not only because of its history or the many stories I have about the place but in my personal opinion, being a real estate practitioner, I believe the design is greatly unique in itself and is INCOMPARABLE to any other sports venue in the country. Look at it! Though not very big, it's very imposing. If at all, it defines the ADMU campus! It's like it was really designed for UAAP and NCAA level type of competitions. I have yet to see any venue in our country that presents a perfect configuration for games that do not command Araneta Coliseum size crowds. Relatively smaller games, which draw supporters but not in the scale of Araneta games, will find a very fan friendly and visually pleasant environment in BEG. True, it's HOT!!!! VERY HOT for that matter. But I am never one to complain of the heat. As a matter of fact, the heat even leads to bringing the support crowd to higher levels of cheering! Though I can just imagine the effects on the players.

Improve the ventilation and/or aircondition the BEG and you will have one of the best designed sports venues in the country! Outside of that, and I am the last one in the world to suggest this, leave the BEG alone.

P.S. Oh yes, the bathrooms could stand some upgrading too.


agreed!! couldn't have said it better myself. never expected it would come from an archer though. hehehe peace! ;D

augustine
06-10-2007, 09:41 PM
^ that's why GA commands respect!

Howard the Duck
06-21-2007, 09:00 PM
If i were montinola, I'd propose these rules:

1. Scrap the five-for-eight(?) rule. Dapat all players must be younger than 23 years old. (Heck, some UAAP players are older than LeBron >:()
2. If you graduated already, you're out.
3. If you stayed in college for more than 5 years, you're out.
4. Remove ads from uniforms/jerseys. Limit it only to the manufacturer's, school and UAAP logo.
5. Limit full-blooded foreigners on one per team's rosters. (Current yata is to have one player on the playing court, di ko alam kung may limit sa roster, can somebody clarify this)
6. Petition the SBP to have org of referees.

5FootCarrot
06-22-2007, 07:26 AM
5. Limit full-blooded foreigners on one per team's rosters. (Current yata is to have one player on the playing court, di ko alam kung may limit sa roster, can somebody clarify this)
There was a newspaper article recently that had a UAAP Board member (Fr. de Sagun?) mentioning that teams are allowed only two (2) full-blooded foreigners on their roster.

GreenArrows
06-22-2007, 07:36 AM
Yes, two but only one can play at a time. This means, Batricivic and Ferdinand will have to alternate playing as they can not play at the same time.

casual_observer
06-22-2007, 04:00 PM
ano ba yung exact rule pagdating sa foreigners? pareho lang ba yung eligibility rules nila sa mga locals?

greenarcher
06-26-2007, 10:38 PM
remove montinola from the UAAP board so we wont get anymore bullsh*t rules ;D

Joescoundrel
06-28-2007, 12:26 PM
Inspect wallets to make sure there is at least P1,000 in cold cash to any one entering a UAAP venue for all sports.

Those without wallets shall be automatically barred from entrance.

This holds for dates, significant others, spouses, and anybody 13 years and older.

That should help keep a lot of the riff-raff out.

bluewing
06-28-2007, 12:33 PM
Inspect wallets to make sure there is at least P1,000 in cold cash to any one entering a UAAP venue for all sports.

Those without wallets shall be automatically barred from entrance.

This holds for dates, significant others, spouses, and anybody 13 years and older.

That should help keep a lot of the riff-raff out.



napaka-harsh naman nyan, manong. marami pa namang ilan dyan na hindi pa nakakakita ng buong PhP1,000 bill. ;)

Joescoundrel
06-28-2007, 12:50 PM
Inspect wallets to make sure there is at least P1,000 in cold cash to any one entering a UAAP venue for all sports.

Those without wallets shall be automatically barred from entrance.

This holds for dates, significant others, spouses, and anybody 13 years and older.

That should help keep a lot of the riff-raff out.



napaka-harsh naman nyan, manong. marami pa namang ilan dyan na hindi pa nakakakita ng buong PhP1,000 bill.* ;)


I was joking for godsakes! Heck, I can't remember the last time I SAW much less HAD a P1,000 bill myself! :-X

bluewing
06-28-2007, 01:23 PM
Inspect wallets to make sure there is at least P1,000 in cold cash to any one entering a UAAP venue for all sports.

Those without wallets shall be automatically barred from entrance.

This holds for dates, significant others, spouses, and anybody 13 years and older.

That should help keep a lot of the riff-raff out.



napaka-harsh naman nyan, manong. marami pa namang ilan dyan na hindi pa nakakakita ng buong PhP1,000 bill.* ;)


I was joking for godsakes! Heck, I can't remember the last time I SAW much less HAD a P1,000 bill myself! :-X


haha.

so was i!

nel
07-26-2007, 12:05 AM
Ticket distribution is one of the areas that can be covered by my previous suggestion to have a professional sports management group take care of the running of the UAAP. Every year, there are complaints about how tickets are unavailable, and the eternal suspicions that someone from each host school benefits from the scalping trade.

Ticket allocation doesn't take rocket science to figure out. There should be a straightforward formula to determine how many tickets go to each school/outlet and when. This allocation should be transparent to all, instead of being shrouded in secrecy. Up to now, it's a mystery the way tickets to the La Salle-Ateneo game have disappeared from the schools and regular ticket outlets and re-appeared in the (non)traditional scalping channels. With all the accounts of tickets being available in Espana while there's a scarcity in other schools, you really can't help but conclude that there's something fishy somewhere.

Having a sports management group that is not beholden to any school will reduce the accusations of bias towards any school, and there will be consistency in rules implementation over the years. We'll know what to expect.

Ok, why is there resistence from the Board in having someone else run the day-to-day circus? Until we can see an impartial body running the UAAP affairs, including ticket distribution, we know that every year, we'll hear the same howls (aren't the 'Dogs playing UST tomorrow?) about lack of tickets and scalping.

Paulit-ulit na, di na tayo natuto. Er, this probably applies more to the Board.

atenean_blooded
07-26-2007, 10:19 AM
Ipa-raffle na lang sa PCSO yung Ateneo-La Salle tickets.

Tutal para ka namang nanalo sa lotto pag nakakuha e.

Joescoundrel
07-31-2007, 01:08 PM
Last season it was UE's Bonbon Custodio.

This season it is FEU's RJ Gerilla.

What the heck is happening to the UAAP Anton?

Can anybody explain to me, in the simplest possible terms, what the UAAP rules / policies are that pertain to gamefixing and other illicit activities, and preventing the same thereof? This is getting goddam ridiculous. If these guys are getting caught then why is it there seems to be nothing being done? I'm sure the UAAP is not totally ignorant of these things but again what the hell is the UAAP doing?

easter
07-31-2007, 02:28 PM
The UAAP is now the dirtiest and most malicious basketball league in the whole nation.

It is just sad that kids are actually playing here. :(

Raging Blue
07-31-2007, 02:31 PM
Question muna. Does the UAAP have a clear policy on the game-fixing issue or even a policy at all? Does it even recognize the existence of game-fixing lurking in the shadows. My impression is that they do not face the issue head-on as evidenced by the reasons given by UE and FEU, respectively, for the dismissal of Custodio and Gerilla from their teams, "conduct inimical to the best interest of the team". The suspicion that these players may have involved is not even mentioned. It is even swept under the rug, so to speak.

Remember from where most of these young men are coming from, impressionable youngsters from simple families who can easily be blinded by the glitz that the UAAP's popularity offers and the glimmer of cash that can be dangled by unscrupulous personalities. In some cases, the parents even make the decisions in behalf of their sons. Hence the vulnerability of players to gambling syndicates.

If not yet undertaken, I suggest that the UAAP board must put on paper a policy, a formal stand against game-fixing and adopt measures towards this end. Before the start of the season there should be a seminar including team officials, coaches and players discussing the game-fixing issue and its detrimental effects, both morally and legally. It must also discuss how players should respond to situations where financial or material benefits may be dangled in front of them in exchange for possibly altering the results of the game or even just fixing the point spread.

Again it highlights the need for a permanent UAAP secretariat which will properly implement board policies, including the the adoption of pro-active measures to counter the specter of game-fixing. If the game-fixing issue is treated cavalierly, we have not seen the last of Custodios and Gerillas being forced out of their teams. Let's just hope that this scandal does not open a Pandora's box that eventually blows up on the faces of all parties concerned.

Jump_Shooter
07-31-2007, 03:07 PM
As long as the schools prefer to keep this matter between themselves and the player involved, I don't think the Board as an entity can do anything about it. For the record, UE and FEU have never admitted that they sacked their players because of game-fixing. And I don't think they will anytime soon.

MrGotti
07-31-2007, 04:10 PM
Buti pa si Coach Bigote, honest. ;) Pinag bintangan si Cortez at Wilson of throwing the game.

Sam Miguel
07-31-2007, 05:07 PM
Gamefixing, point shaving, and all of these other illicit activities exist, and certainly no one in the UAAP would insist they do not. However admitting the existence of the problem is just the first step: how do you actually deal with it? In the case of the NBA's own recent scandal involving referee Tom Donaghy it was at least the Feds themselves doing their homework and legwork and establishing the Mob ties and gamlbing problems of Donaghy. Sadly this is not the case for the UAAP. Custodio and Gerilla are only the latest in a long line of unproven, swept-under-the-rug cases. During Jaworski's time in UE I recall he was accused of fixing a game against UST. Kenneth Duremdes had these allegations in the 1993 season. Jay Gayoso had similar charges leveled against him during that 1988 season I think. But in all of these cases NOTHING WAS EVER ESTABLISHED. There were accusations, and only accusations. Strangely enough the schools simply suspended or removed their players from the roster and the cases were simply never spoken of again.

I feel that our own NBI should of its own volition investigate such cases and make a definitive finding, i.e. was there a crime committed and who are responsible? From there they should of course throw every conceivable book at the offending parties. it is not enough that these cases are consigned to the frailty of human memory and locked up in that pyschological fiction known as "lessons learned". A lesson is only truly learned if and when it is objectively discussed and something tangible results therefrom.

We must remember that cases of gamefixing do not just affect single games or even just the UAAP; these actions are CRIMES, violations of laws, tantamount to the worst kind of fraud, akin to any old con job. We arrest, try and convict those who engage in insider trading, election fraud (bear with me...), embezzlement, malversation, plunder, issuing bouncing checks, and the like, why not those who throw games? And I don't just mean the players; I mean EVERY ONE including the ones who approach the players, offer bribes, basically do anything that adversely affects the game we all love.

MIKE ENRIQUEZ, who keeps saying "hindi namin kayo tatantanan", here is something for you to stick your beautiful aquiline nose into. Seeing as how you are a diehard UAAP fan, let's see if this is something that "hindi mo nga tatantanan."

jembengzon
08-02-2007, 10:29 PM
i think its time that both the uaap and ncaa leagues consider getting a professional organization to run their repsective leagues.* and not just from a operational standpoint - i.e., referees, training, eligibility definitions, rule interpretation, adherence to a menatined grade point average, etc. - but the whole show - business negotiations, revenue sharing among schools,* *discipline and sanctions, suspensions, liasoning with different agencies to weed out illicit activities, etc.*

while there has always been cases of point shaving/game fixing since before,* it has become further institutionalized and entrenched with the advent of media coverage and thus an explosion in wagering and a host of other problems. hence, the old boys network of getting host schools to run things for a year - and we all know how that's turned out to be - doesn't address todays' problems of running the league.* it's like taking a peashooter to shoot an oncoming bull rush.* and someone once said* the definition if insanity "is trying to solve a recurring problem the same way and yet expect different results."

if the schools are really concerned about the long-term viability of the league and to thrive even further, the schools should let go of their own parochial interests and do the difficult and but right thing - let the league be run by proffessionals who know how to deal with today's problems and situations.

flsfnoeraekadad
08-02-2007, 10:33 PM
Change the foreign players rule with regards to their entrance to the court so it doesn't make stir-ups like this.

atenean_blooded
08-02-2007, 11:38 PM
Speaking of rules on foreign players, I don't see why we shouldn't allow more foreign players in our line-ups if foreigners are capable of becoming legitimate college students in this country. Of course, there are obvious repercussions, like how some schools might focus more on recruiting foreign talent instead of investing in Filipinos, etc., but then again, if you've got excellent Filipino talent, you won't even need to bring in foreigners. What we can regulate, for example, is residency, and perhaps grade/graduation requirements for student-athletes, so as to ensure that these foreigners are students first.

The alternative is that we should maintain the status quo about number of foreigners allowed, but we should be able to clarify rules regarding fielding foreigners, as flsfnoeraekadad pointed out.

nel
08-03-2007, 11:57 AM
i think its time that both the uaap and ncaa leagues consider getting a professional organization to run their repsective leagues. and not just from a operational standpoint - i.e., referees, training, eligibility definitions, rule interpretation, adherence to a menatined grade point average, etc. - but the whole show - business negotiations, revenue sharing among schools, discipline and sanctions, suspensions, liasoning with different agencies to weed out illicit activities, etc.

while there has always been cases of point shaving/game fixing since before, it has become further institutionalized and entrenched with the advent of media coverage and thus an explosion in wagering and a host of other problems. hence, the old boys network of getting host schools to run things for a year - and we all know how that's turned out to be - doesn't address todays' problems of running the league. it's like taking a peashooter to shoot an oncoming bull rush. and someone once said the definition if insanity "is trying to solve a recurring problem the same way and yet expect different results."

if the schools are really concerned about the long-term viability of the league and to thrive even further, the schools should let go of their own parochial interests and do the difficult and but right thing - let the league be run by proffessionals who know how to deal with today's problems and situations.



And who will decide on issues in a completely impartial and independent manner based on the rules. No gray areas, the only answer to any issue should be "yes" or "no".

A professional group will also help ensure consistency in application of rules and regulations.

Sam Miguel
08-03-2007, 12:56 PM
^^^ But won't "professional management" mean the end of amateur sports as far as the UAAP goes? Will this not in effect turn the UAAP into a "professional" sports league and thus defeat the core principle of varsity sports?

Certainly we all agree that the present management of the UAAP could, to put it kindly, stand improvement. But I am simply concerned that a professional management group - especially in the present concept of such things as a high value added / high profit way of running organizations - may turn the UAAP completely around, from a varsity sports organization into a professional sports organization where the bottom line is key. Before long we'll have lawyers, accountants and MBA folks running the show, looking at their precious revenue models and cash flows first, perhaps even dumping "non-asset" sports like Chess and Fencing, or turning men's basketball into some sort of slush fund.

This could be the beginning of embezzlement and other white collar high crimes.

nel
08-04-2007, 08:09 AM
The intent of hiring a professional management group is not to turn the league into a business - it's simply to manage the league in an efficient and impartial manner. The group will be tasked with the day-to-day operations, ideally spanning several years to ensure consistency in implementation of rules.

For example, we'll do away with the annual choice of a commissioner by the host school. Ticket distribution will also be rationalized and the allocation rules will be strictly followed because they'll receive all the printed tickets before passing on the allocations to the different schools. It may not totally eliminate scalping, but at least the host school will no longer be accused of hoarding the tickets, in the way that the current host school was widely criticized for the ticket shortage for the DLSU-Ateneo game.

It's been done before - take a look at how the US NCAA is professionally run - it's light years away from the 'old boys club' that the UAAP is today. In fact, the US NCAA is far stricter with their rules on what an athlete may receive from the school and from supporters. We never hear any accusations of partiality and bias against the US NCAA, and the league is run far more efficiently considering the geographic coverage and the number and variability of competitors depending on how they fare in their own conferences. Do you think our UAAP administrators and board could run the UAAP in the way that the US NCAA is run?

I think you're getting confused. Embezzlement and white collar crimes? C'mon, get real.

Don't mistake the term "professionally managed" with "professional athletes" - I think that's where you're coming from. Professionally managed doesn't mean that the UAAP athletes will be compensated. It doesn't mean that the league will now be run "for profit".

What it does mean is that the people running the show will be professionals who are compensated for doing a good job of running the league and who understand the rules of the games and are very knowledgeable in events management, particularly athletic events. It also means that the schools will be treated equally, since the management group does not belong to or will be beholden to any school.

Bottom line - professionally managed will mean that the people running the show really know what they're doing. Isn't that something we really want?

Raging Blue
08-04-2007, 10:55 AM
We don't have to look very far on how to run a league professionally. Ask Chino Trinidad of the PBL and Noli Eala of the PBA. It's just a matter of tapping their expertise. Adjusted, of course, for a non-profit (I presume) organization like the UAAP.

kryptonite
08-05-2007, 05:15 AM
Speaking of rules on foreign players, I don't see why we shouldn't allow more foreign players in our line-ups if foreigners are capable of becoming legitimate college students in this country. Of course, there are obvious repercussions, like how some schools might focus more on recruiting foreign talent instead of investing in Filipinos, etc., but then again, if you've got excellent Filipino talent, you won't even need to bring in foreigners. What we can regulate, for example, is residency, and perhaps grade/graduation requirements for student-athletes, so as to ensure that these foreigners are students first.

The alternative is that we should maintain the status quo about number of foreigners allowed, but we should be able to clarify rules regarding fielding foreigners, as flsfnoeraekadad pointed out.


The entry of foreign-athletes-students will increase the quality of games and increase the quality of basketball skills in the collegiate level. Pag nanonood ako ng UAAP parang inter-barangay pinapanood ko. Ang gulo-gulo, tira ng tira sa labas, di naman pumapasok. Maybe it will give the game the maturity it needs for it's athletes to be at par with our neighboring countries. If there are excellent Filipino talent, then schools will always recruit them. So that we can do away with mediocre talent. Sa inter-barangay na lang sila.

gfy
08-05-2007, 06:56 AM
^ Ang ibang schools ang mag-proprotesta. But I am amenable to letting the 2 foreigners play at the same time. Nasisira ang coaching pag palagi iniisip ng coaches na di pwedeng pag sabayin yun dalawa. Sabi sa dyaryo, ang penalty na raw ay ejection ng both foreigners if they play together with automatic one game suspension. A repeat will merit 3 game suspension.

Mateen Cleaves
08-05-2007, 07:53 AM
^That's right. Isang coaching staff lang naman ang may problema dito. Dalawa, kung hindi nipalayan si Batricevic. Why amend the rule just to accommodate them? Putting more meat (enforceable penalties) on the current rule makes more sense.

Speaking of penalties... I think that a delay of game technical foul should be called on teams when their pep squads take too long with the halftime cheer.

i-point
08-05-2007, 08:23 AM
^Agree ako dito, 101%!

5FootCarrot
08-05-2007, 09:03 AM
Of course, it goes without saying that the time limit and its corresponding sanction (in case of violation) should be strictly applied even to the school performing first.

I'm not going to say that the school performing second is innocent all the time, just that in many cases both schools' halftime shows exceed their respective time limits, to the detriment of the school performing second - players re-entering the court really does spoil the show!

john_paul_manahan
08-05-2007, 11:11 AM
agreed...

bchoter
08-05-2007, 02:12 PM
Agree din

Howard the Duck
08-06-2007, 08:45 AM
5 minutes + 5 minutes = 10 minutes

as far as I know, the FIBA halftime sa 15 minutes.

wala lang.

Sam Miguel
08-06-2007, 10:15 AM
Nel, I would dearly love to have the UAAP run in an efficient, fair, impartial manner. And yes, at first glance a professional management group as JemBengzon suggests seems like a good idea. But I worry about how these things would really apply in practice.

For instance: what kind of professional management group are we looking at?

Is there any existing organization now that would be acceptable to one and all to undertake this task?

What would their relationship be with the UAAP Board and the member schools? With Studio 23 and the other media partners/stakeholders?

Unless the management group is headed by and/or majority owned and/or majority run by people NOT from any UAAP school it might be tough selling this idea to anyone in the UAAP.

Noli Eala is called by some quarters as the GM for San Miguel Corporation's PBA Affairs office with designation as PBA Commissioner. I just think this same line of thinking would apply to any one from Lasalle or Ateneo or UP or UST or any other UAAP school who winds up running a management group to run the UAAP.

nel
08-06-2007, 10:28 AM
How about Chino Trinidad? The PBL is owned by the teams, yet we don't hear of any protests against the way Chino has been running the league. He's been at the helm for a while now, and his reputation has yet to be challenged.

It should be possible for a true professional to be impartial despite his school background. For example, Professor Sev Sarmenta is an Ateneo alumnus, yet he still continues to cover the games in a non-biased manner even though he may be doing the coverage of an Ateneo game. Away from the camera and microphone, he's very Atenan, but you wouldn't suspect it when you hear him giving the play-by-plan. No bias at all.

What's needed from any prospective organization or person is unquestioned integrity. I'm sure that our institutions of higher learning will have produced some who will have this quality, though it isn't apparent from their choice of the majority of the board reps.

Sam, the first step is for the board reps to want to make the change because it's for the betterment of the league and its stakeholders. Right now, the board seems to act based on their own schools' vested interests. The discernment that change is necessary must come from them first. Then we can worry about who to get to run the UAAP's operations.

Sam Miguel
08-06-2007, 10:30 AM
I have a silly question, speaking of changes in the UAAP: Does the two foreigner rule apply to ALL sports?

For instance: two American citizens CANNOT be on the 4 x 100 meter relay team of a given track team? Or the 200 meter team medley of a given swim team?

How about in football and baseball?

And for godsakes HOW HARD IS IT FOR THE UAAP TO SIMPLY TELL TABLE OFFICIALS WORKING A GIVEN GAME NOT TO ALLOW KNOWN FOREIGNERS ON THE COURT AT THE SAME TIME?

I beg to disagree with some quarters that the table officials should not have to be bothered to know who the foreign players are and that these officials should not have to be the ones policing the fielding in of foregin players in adherence to the rule. How hard could it be for the league to say: BOYS, HERE ARE THE PLAYERS WHO SHOULD NOT BE ON THE COURT AT THE SAME TIME; MAKE SURE THEY NEVER PLAY TOGETHER, OK. Is this so impossibly difficult. For godsakes a simply memo would suffice.

TO: ALL GAME DAY TABLE OFFICIALS, CREWS, REFEREES

FR: OFFICE OF THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES

RE: TWO FOREIGNER RULE, PROHIBITION

TO all concerned, please be informed that the following players from the following member schools are NOT to play together on the court at the same time:

De La Salle: FERDINAND
* * * * * * * * BATRICEVIC, MARKO

Ateneo De Manila: LONG, KIRK JEFFREY
* * * * * * * * * * * * *LATERRE, ZION ZEBEDEE

It is your responsibility to ensure that when either of these schools play that these players are never to be on the floor for their respective teams at the same time. Should any of these players approach the table for a subsitution please verify first if they will wind up playing with the other foreginer on their team and deny the substitution request.

If a team insists on fielding these players at the same time in any given game then please refer to previous memorandum dated 4 August 2007 as to appropriate sanctions.

This is for every one's guidance and STRICT COMPLIANCE.

Love,
Fr De Sagun

There, was that so hard?

Sam Miguel
08-06-2007, 10:37 AM
How about Chino Trinidad? The PBL is owned by the teams, yet we don't hear of any protests against the way Chino has been running the league. He's been at the helm for a while now, and his reputation has yet to be challenged.

It should be possible for a true professional to be impartial despite his school background. For example, Professor Sev Sarmenta is an Ateneo alumnus, yet he still continues to cover the games in a non-biased manner even though he may be doing the coverage of an Ateneo game. Away from the camera and microphone, he's very Atenan, but you wouldn't suspect it when you hear him giving the play-by-plan. No bias at all.

What's needed from any prospective organization or person is unquestioned integrity. I'm sure that our institutions of higher learning will have produced some who will have this quality, though it isn't apparent from their choice of the majority of the board reps.

Sam, the first step is for the board reps to want to make the change because it's for the betterment of the league and its stakeholders. Right now, the board seems to act based on their own schools' vested interests. The discernment that change is necessary must come from them first. Then we can worry about who to get to run the UAAP's operations.


My sentiments exactly Nel. Come to think of it, since Chino Trinidad, proud UE Warrior that he is, has done a relatively good job with the PBL, then perhaps we should pirate him for this task.

nel
08-06-2007, 10:42 AM
Yup, that was simple and should be easy to implement. You know, that's plain common sense, but apparently that isn't so common after all.

Implementing that rule is easy in basketball because that's an exception - the foreigners are a very small percentage of the population (count them on one hand). But when a rule affects a significant percentage of the population (athletes), that's not going to be easy to do.

I guess we need to distinguish between the real rules of the sport and the UAAP-specific rules. That way, there should be no confusion as to who should be tasked with monitoring and execution/implementation.

Simply put, the in-game officials (refs, umpires, scorers, timers, etc) should be concerned purely with the technical rules of the sport during the event. They cannot be expected to know the UAAP rulebook inside out, but they should be masters of the game rules like basketball and baseball. On the other hand, an operations committee can oversee the ongoing implementation of the UAAP-formulated rules - this is the independent sports management team that jem and I are advocating.

Howard the Duck
08-06-2007, 10:47 AM
dapat may badge ang foreigners, parang yellow armband sa mga soccer captains...

toti_mendiola
08-06-2007, 10:49 AM
dapat may badge ang foreigners, parang yellow armband sa mga soccer captains...


Dapat color coded.Two blacks or two blondes para madali. ;D

BigBlue
08-06-2007, 10:50 AM
can't the board just strengthen the powers of the commissioner? and most of all, respect his decisions?

Sam Miguel
08-06-2007, 10:51 AM
And since I once again saw DUFF up there, they should serve BEER at ALL venues.

nel
08-06-2007, 10:53 AM
Wouldn't asking foreigners to wear something to distinguish themselves from locals be discriminatory?

Regarding the commissioner, he's appointed by each year's host school, and will sit only for a year. That appointment can by itself lead to suspicions of bias.

BigBlue
08-06-2007, 10:58 AM
Wouldn't asking foreigners to wear something to distinguish themselves from locals be discriminatory?

Regarding the commissioner, he's appointed by each year's host school, and will sit only for a year. That appointment can by itself lead to suspicions of bias.


Nel, the rule we have right now is already discriminatory against foreigners ;)

Sam Miguel
08-06-2007, 11:03 AM
Wouldn't asking foreigners to wear something to distinguish themselves from locals be discriminatory?

Regarding the commissioner, he's appointed by each year's host school, and will sit only for a year. That appointment can by itself lead to suspicions of bias.


THIS I totally agree with. All the UAAP has to do is simply circulate the sample memo I gave on Page 10 and that should take care of it.

To me this is a ridiculous situation, like the traffic croc, er cop, hiding behind a tree waiting for would-be runners of red lights. If the UAAP truly wants the rule enforced, and to avoid incidents such as the one most recent, then it should take all steps as part of its own due diligence to make certain such violation never takes place, i.e. ordering all game officials to be aware at least of the two foreigner prohibition would be a simple and logical first step in this direction.

kenandmaybs
08-06-2007, 11:35 AM
chino trinidad? have you noticed na nilalangaw palagi ang PBL?
di ata maganda iyung suggestion na yan.....

jembengzon
08-06-2007, 12:19 PM
chino trinidad? have you noticed na nilalangaw palagi ang PBL?
di ata maganda iyung suggestion na yan.....


i don't think you can use crowd attendance as a basis whether he will be good for the uaap. iba ang hatak ng crowd ing uaap, courtesy of the school following and studio 23. what's more important is how the league is run, how rules are implemented, and are the members happy with his performance.

jollibeeaddict
08-06-2007, 12:49 PM
i am thinking that UP alumnus? (sabi kasi niya sa FHM recently, naglaro daw siya as a swimmer for UP for about two years) Chino Trinidad might be named by UP as next year's UAAP commissioner. tama talaga na hindi gamitin na basis ang attendance ng PBL para 'wag i-appoint si Chino as commissioner dahil ang dapat na maging barometer ay yung klase ng trabaho na ginagawa niya sa PBL ngayon. just in case he becomes UAAP commish next year, baka yung PBL referees din ang kunin as UAAP referees para mawala yung "conflict of interest" between BARSU and Joe Lipa (malamang hindi kukunin ng UP ang NABRO. mismong sina President Emerlinda Roman at Chancellor Gerry Cao, nabubuwisit sa officiating this year.).

ito pa yung isang "wild" suggestion ko regarding the determination of the second runner-up in all basketball competitions (men's, women's and juniors'): the loser of the 1 vs 4 Final Four game and the 2 vs 3 Final Four game will meet in a sudden-death match, with the winner being awarded the second runner-up trophy.

Mateen Cleaves
08-06-2007, 01:00 PM
For instance: what kind of professional management group are we looking at?

Is there any existing organization now that would be acceptable to one and all to undertake this task?

What would their relationship be with the UAAP Board and the member schools? With Studio 23 and the other media partners/stakeholders?


They would be suppliers of professional services. The UAAP schools, as represented by the Board, would be the client. In the same way that Studio 23 should be seen as a supplier of services to the UAAP. It should not be considered a stakeholder at all.

nel
08-06-2007, 01:08 PM
Another question I have regarding the ruling on the two foreigners - is this only for basketball or is it applicable to all sports?

From the specifics of the penalties, it seems that it's only for basketball - Technical for the first offense in a game, and ejection of the coach after the 2nd.

Or should it apply to all sports? Methinks it should, otherwise what's going to prevent a school from importing a whole football team from abroad and fielding that team in the UAAP football tournament?

Ok, how do you implement this in the other team sports like football, baseball, and volleyball, or the individual sports like chess and tennis? Will the board get into all the rulebooks of all the sports and impose a penalty specific to that sport?

Yet another brilliant ruling from the board.

31gna
08-06-2007, 02:58 PM
korek! let them go into the rule book.. apply sanction(s) for each and every rule for each and every sport for each and every division (men, juniors, womens)!

5FootCarrot
08-06-2007, 03:33 PM
dapat may badge ang foreigners, parang yellow armband sa mga soccer captains...
Those badges sound more like yellow star Hitler forced the Jews to wear on their clothes. Unlike the yellow armbands for soccer captains and C's or A's for hockey captains, a badge like that doesn't denote an honor bestowed on the player.

I'm not saying it's not honorable to be a foreigner playing for a UAAP school, but as players they shouldn't be singled out among their peers simply for being different from the others in some way.

Joescoundrel
08-06-2007, 04:14 PM
For instance: what kind of professional management group are we looking at?

Is there any existing organization now that would be acceptable to one and all to undertake this task?

What would their relationship be with the UAAP Board and the member schools? With Studio 23 and the other media partners/stakeholders?


They would be suppliers of professional services. The UAAP schools, as represented by the Board, would be the client. In the same way that Studio 23 should be seen as a supplier of services to the UAAP. It should not be considered a stakeholder at all.


Mateen, does this mean this theoretical management group would be held to a management performance contract with its own specific key result areas by the UAAP? What kind of KRA's are we talking about here?

Because if we will pay people like these the kind of money such a group would presumably be commanding I think we would have moved into a whole new rubric of organizational management, one that may contadict the very spirit of varsity sports as we know it now, imperfect as it may be at present.

Joescoundrel
08-06-2007, 04:17 PM
Another question I have regarding the ruling on the two foreigners - is this only for basketball or is it applicable to all sports?

From the specifics of the penalties, it seems that it's only for basketball - Technical for the first offense in a game, and ejection of the coach after the 2nd.

Or should it apply to all sports? Methinks it should, otherwise what's going to prevent a school from importing a whole football team from abroad and fielding that team in the UAAP football tournament?

Ok, how do you implement this in the other team sports like football, baseball, and volleyball, or the individual sports like chess and tennis? Will the board get into all the rulebooks of all the sports and impose a penalty specific to that sport?

Yet another brilliant ruling from the board.




Questions I myself have been asking, Nel.

Football and volleyball are also popular sports. What's to prevent any school from bringing in 11 Brazilians, sticking them in a local high school and then unleashing them on a UAAP pitch?

Howard the Duck
08-06-2007, 04:23 PM
dapat may badge ang foreigners, parang yellow armband sa mga soccer captains...
Those badges sound more like yellow star Hitler forced the Jews to wear on their clothes. Unlike the yellow armbands for soccer captains and C's or A's for hockey captains, a badge like that doesn't denote an honor bestowed on the player.

I'm not saying it's not honorable to be a foreigner playing for a UAAP school, but as players they shouldn't be singled out among their peers simply for being different from the others in some way.
Di naman dapat badge, basta anything that can make you distinguish at first instant that they're foreigners... like require them to have blonde hair, lime green socks or rainbow headbands.

5FootCarrot
08-06-2007, 04:36 PM
dapat may badge ang foreigners, parang yellow armband sa mga soccer captains...
Those badges sound more like yellow star Hitler forced the Jews to wear on their clothes. Unlike the yellow armbands for soccer captains and C's or A's for hockey captains, a badge like that doesn't denote an honor bestowed on the player.

I'm not saying it's not honorable to be a foreigner playing for a UAAP school, but as players they shouldn't be singled out among their peers simply for being different from the others in some way.
Di naman dapat badge, basta anything that can make you distinguish at first instant that they're foreigners... like require them to have blonde hair, lime green socks or rainbow headbands.


Sorry, but the principle is the same - you're still marking them because they're somehow different (in this case, because they're not Filipino).

nel
08-06-2007, 04:40 PM
Mateen, does this mean this theoretical management group would be held to a management performance contract with its own specific key result areas by the UAAP? What kind of KRA's are we talking about here?

Because if we will pay people like these the kind of money such a group would presumably be commanding I think we would have moved into a whole new rubric of organizational management, one that may contadict the very spirit of varsity sports as we know it now, imperfect as it may be at present.


Joe,

Don't expect the board to be able to come up with KRAs or KPIs. They may not even know what these TLAs (Three Letter Acronyms) mean. Heck, they're not even concerned with performance here, because the league, with or without their active involvement, earns from sponsorships and attendance (the opening day, the two La Salle-Ateneo games, the cheerdancing competition, and the championship). You could conceivably stick some stiffs in the board, and the league wouldn't notice that nobody had stirred for 3 months because the tournaments would run by themselves and the students would watch the basketball games.

The board's focus is all on basketball, and they make it a point to be present for tv shots and photo ops during the games. However, they very rarely are at the other sports competitions. Is this just a basketball board?

Ang Senador
08-06-2007, 04:54 PM
This is really one of the very rare times that I post here and in other forums where I am a member. I am still appalled with the way some people here, most especially those who belonged to the UP community, disrespect each other's opinions and suggestions, which is the reason why I opted to take to stay as a lurker and wait for the right time to post my opinion.

I am reacting on the suggestions regarding foreign-born athletes in the UAAP. The suggestions are very racist. Nothing differentiates the foreign-born athletes from the locals except for race so I believe that they should be given fair treatment by the UAAP or the NCAA or any other local athletics group. It is just so sad that some Filipinos are more racist than the American rednecks, causing them to suggest such absolutely stupid and disgraceful actions towards foreign-born athletes.

eightyfiver
08-06-2007, 08:40 PM
Why do you have to come up with a conclusion that Pinoys are racist just because of the rule limiting the number of foreigners in a team? Its just a plain and simple way of levelling the playing field. Just the same reason they use in the PBA why they limit imports. Look at how our national team performed in international competitions. We just have to admit that we are not as physically endowed as our foreign counterparts. Besides, I prefer to give the window of opportunity to a local basketeer anytime of the day vis-a-vis a foreigner. But that's another story.

Ang Senador
08-06-2007, 09:19 PM
If the PBA and even the Philippine National Teams allow foreign-borns to participate without even a sealing being implemented, why can't the UAAP? Is it because the locals are so insecure of the foreign-borns or is it because the locals are getting even less competitive in sports unlike the foreign-borns? If UAAP is not afraid of anything, it should do what the PBA and the National Teams are doing when it comes to dealing with foreign-borns by not being racist.

Pinoys should just stop acting worse than American rednecks and members of the Ku Klux Klan. Period.

Howard the Duck
08-06-2007, 10:21 PM
if being nationalist is racist then i'm damn proud of being a racist ;D

Actually the principle means the refs can recognize immediately if there are 2 foreigners in the team when the ball is in play. So we are discriminatory to liberos since they have a different uniform? It's merely identification, it's not you're downgraded or humiliated when you wear something different. It's not that you're made to sit at the hottest part of the team bus. They opted to play here so we subject them to our rules.

IMO there should be no punishment if a team plays with 2 foreigners; kung sumobra, eh paalisin kaagad. kung di pwede, power play 5-on-4.

And our senator has a very broad definition of "racist". Even broader than Rihanna's forehead.

gfy
08-07-2007, 12:28 AM
Baka masyado magastos ang isang permanent, "professional" body to oversee UAAP affairs. Sa US NCAA kelangan kasi buong United States yun. Even PAC-10 has only a small office in Moraga, CA, I think. Ang dapat sa UAAP ay isang consultant to look at the entire thing and make recommendations depende sa objectives and policies ng UAAP. For example, re rules and regulations dapat balasahin ang mga yan. Di pwede yun nangyari na may rule on foreigners tapos wala naman sanctions or penalties. Saka na lang naisip ngayon. Sus. Tapos yun eligibility rules paiba-iba at di malinaw. Re venues dapat siguro may permanenteng selected venue/s na at di yun paiba-iba kung ano man ang gusto ng host. This way baka makakuha pa ng term contract at discount. Yun schedules dapat ibigay sa isang expert every year at di ibigay sa host na wala naman competence. One consideration here is to maximize revenue which goes to the UAAP anyway.

So ang gagawin ng host ay parang automatic na at operations na lang. Oh I forgot. Yun allocation ng tickets dapat may agreement na. Say, 20% to each of the 4 schools and the balance sa venue. At di pabago-bago ang composition. Dapat pareho ang mga percentages from patron to bleachers.

atenean_blooded
08-07-2007, 12:54 AM
Another question I have regarding the ruling on the two foreigners - is this only for basketball or is it applicable to all sports?

From the specifics of the penalties, it seems that it's only for basketball - Technical for the first offense in a game, and ejection of the coach after the 2nd.

Or should it apply to all sports? Methinks it should, otherwise what's going to prevent a school from importing a whole football team from abroad and fielding that team in the UAAP football tournament?

Ok, how do you implement this in the other team sports like football, baseball, and volleyball, or the individual sports like chess and tennis? Will the board get into all the rulebooks of all the sports and impose a penalty specific to that sport?

Yet another brilliant ruling from the board.




I actually have little problem getting foreigners to play. I see no reason why we should discriminate against foreign students who want to come to the Philippines for college and play varsity sports. What's important is that each school implements measures to make sure these guys and girls are students first, athletes second.

And I think recruitment programs by schools should simply look for the best student-athletes. I mean, suppose 15 foreign players do come to a particular school, all, by sheer coincidence, sign up for the same team, and they top the recruitment pool? All of a sudden, they're discriminated against?

Since some of the obvious worry is about some unscrupulous parties resorting to mercenaries. But that's the lookout of an individual university's administration. Last I checked, inasmuch as there's public interest to uphold by developing Filipino athletic talent, there's little to no reason to say that the best athletes in the Philippines cannot beat foreigners simply because they're foreigners. Increasing the level of competition is going to be good, not bad.

Also, last I checked, part of the trend in world universities is an increase in diversity and internationalization, because it's a good thing. I see no reason why this should not apply to college sports as well.

nel
08-07-2007, 08:54 AM
Baka masyado magastos ang isang permanent, "professional" body to oversee UAAP affairs. Sa US NCAA kelangan kasi buong United States yun. Even PAC-10 has only a small office in Moraga, CA, I think. Ang dapat sa UAAP ay isang consultant to look at the entire thing and make recommendations depende sa objectives and policies ng UAAP. For example, re rules and regulations dapat balasahin ang mga yan. Di pwede yun nangyari na may rule on foreigners tapos wala naman sanctions or penalties. Saka na lang naisip ngayon. Sus. Tapos yun eligibility rules paiba-iba at di malinaw. Re venues dapat siguro may permanenteng selected venue/s na at di yun paiba-iba kung ano man ang gusto ng host. This way baka makakuha pa ng term contract at discount. Yun schedules dapat ibigay sa isang expert every year at di ibigay sa host na wala naman competence. One consideration here is to maximize revenue which goes to the UAAP anyway.

Regarding the cost, the ticket proceeds from the opening games, the La Salle-Ateneo matches, the round-of-four and the finals will pay for that. They're probably enough to fund the running of the entire league as is.

So ang gagawin ng host ay parang automatic na at operations na lang. Oh I forgot. Yun allocation ng tickets dapat may agreement na. Say, 20% to each of the 4 schools and the balance sa venue. At di pabago-bago ang composition. Dapat pareho ang mga percentages from patron to bleachers.


While there are problems with the rules themselves, a much larger issue is the consistent implementation of existing rules, which are subject to interpretation depending on who the commissioner and the members of the technical committee are. Year on year, you will get different views from these officials regarding a given situation. Consistency and accountability for performance are only possible if you have the same independent group running the show year-in year-out.

If you hire a consultant only to come up with recommendations and let the host implement, the report and recommendations will be interpreted differently depending on who the host is. There's no such thing as plain English any more. Call me a skeptic, but after so many years of consistently inconsistent league management, I've lost hope that the current setup will result in anything better. A paradigm shift is needed, but who's brave enough to start the shift and be the paradigm pioneer?

On the ticket distribution, there are existing agreements, but the host usually feels free to alter the actual release of the tickets whenever it suits them. Witness the tickets for the La Salle-Ateneo game, most of which were nowhere to be found in the usual outlets like the schools concerned and Ticketnet. Despite the agreements made in previous years, the current host chose to parcel out the tickets in what seems like a whimsical manner.

Unless something really different is done, next year and the year after, we'll see the same things happening. Deja vu. Wait, didn't I just say that?

gfy
08-07-2007, 10:46 AM
^ The consultant is just a one-time thing. Kumbaga overhaul ng UAAP. The problem is that the rules are not very specific and clear. Meron mga gray areas. Wala pang corresponding penalty or sanction for the violation. Kaya ang interpretation pa iba-iba. Dapat consolidation at rationalization and simplification ng mga rules and regulations.

nel
08-07-2007, 12:57 PM
Getting a consultant to conduct an independent study of what ails the UAAP is fine, but it's the consistent implementation of any recommendations that will be if-fy. When the management control of the league changes every year, the host school always has final say on how the league is run, from the appointment of the commissioner to the ticket distribution. Unless the operations are transferred to an independent group which will run the affairs over a number of years, expect more of the same.

Resistance to change? It was invented by the UAAP board.

Oops, let me qualify that. The board will change the rules, depending on the individual school's vested interest regarding any issue brought before it. It will not change the way the UAAP is run.

Sam Miguel
08-07-2007, 05:07 PM
^^^ Consultants. Isn't that the guy who gets paid a lot of money not to report to the office and given a subsidized phone so the geniuses who hired him can have the pleasure of him not answering their call while he's out partying somewhere in the pretext of doing what he was hired to do...? ;D

GHRanger
08-07-2007, 05:24 PM
^ YES. ::)* That's one way of defining it.

My old professor told me (during the height of reengineering and management process bandwagons) that you can't rely on one paradigm to ensure the continued success of an organization.*

Reengineering, she said was the best way to fix an aging inefficient process -- because this literally means destroying/demolishing/throwing away the old methods and try to create new ones based on good practices and new methods.* (I guess this is where the consultants come in.)

But this does not ensure the success of the Organization.* After the process has been defined, we would need a culture of continous improvement (kaizen, etc., etc.) and a solid management team to implement this -- a management team willing to see this year in and year out.* This team will be accountable to the member schools (through SLAs).

But before that, I believe the most important thing, is that someone from the board has to put this on the table.* At yan mga kaibigan ang pinakamalaking tanong ngayon... are you willing to let go of some of your honoraria to make this happen?

Joescoundrel
08-08-2007, 09:17 AM
^^^ Why do I get the feeling Sam and GH are consultants... ;D

nel
08-08-2007, 10:47 AM
^^^ Why do I get the feeling Sam and GH are consultants... ;D


It sure does sound like it. I suspect that GHRanger is an IT consultant, since he mentioned the SLA (Service Level Agreement) acronym.

Perhaps our consultants can compile a list of suggested changes in their spare time (no time charges, mind you) and forward them to all the UAAP board members. It may serve as food for thought (kaya lang, the thought processes of most board members seems to be extremely rusty already due to the length of time they've spent on the board). Maybe if and when they do their annual plan for next year, these can be background readings. That is, if they ever do any planning (they mostly do scheming, but that's another thing altogether).

Highly recommended viewing for the board members - The Business of Paradigms by Joel Barker. Kinda old, circa late 1980s, but the concepts are still very applicable today. It's all about resistance to change and how getting stuck in one's paradigm can lead to complacency and loss of contact with reality. Come to think of it, sounds a lot like the affliction that's beset the board for the past how many years.

ramonsd
08-08-2007, 11:02 AM
The following changes should be made in UAAP basketball (to be more specific):

1. players should maintain the poise and composure of tennis players. They should remain as calm, quiet and as gentlemanly as possible, letting out only an occasional grunt when heaving shots from beyond the arc.

2. players should be on the court before their scheduled game exactly 15 minutes before the scheduled start, as they should be given only 3 mins. to stretch, 2 mins. for a water break, 5 mins. to shoot around, and another 5 mins to bow their heads in silence to pray to god *to give them the poise and composure of tennis players.

3. No high fives, body slams, or celebratory yells or remarks should be allowed either from players or members of the coaching staff as this unnecessarily adds to the decibel levels in the very well chosen venues for the games.

4. The members of cheerdance groups/cheerleaders/bands should be limited to 5 per school - one to carry the bass drum, another to carry the snare, and the rest to do the halftime show. There should be only one halftime cheering session which should be held only on the first playdate of the season and which should be participated in by ALL of the cheerleaders allowed for each school (3), doing one cheer for each of the schools, in succession. Their performance should be limited to 5 mins. - 1 min to get on court, another to get off, and the remaining time for the cheers proper. Should they exceed this allowec time, the table officials should press the game buzzer continuously for ten minutes to signify that they had already done so.

5. The "no cheering during timeouts" rule should be replaced with a simpler rule which is easy for the crowd to understand and even easier for the UAAP board to write down - "NO CHEERING". This would make for a more serene atmosphere. Chess players don't need to be cheered on why should basketball players be any different. and;

6. La Salle and Ateneo should be banned from the league and sent back to the NCAA in order for the uaap to regain the luster and prestige of the days of old when nobody had to line up for tickets or sit in a noisy, jampacked, and boisterous coliseum.

GHRanger
08-08-2007, 11:12 AM
^^^ Why do I get the feeling Sam and GH are consultants... ;D

It sure does sound like it. I suspect that GHRanger is an IT consultant, since he mentioned the SLA (Service Level Agreement) acronym.


Hehehehe, SLAs gamit namin for vendors, IT related or otherwise. :D



Perhaps our consultants can compile a list of suggested changes in their spare time (no time charges, mind you) and forward them to all the UAAP board members. It may serve as food for thought (kaya lang, the thought processes of most board members seems to be extremely rusty already due to the length of time they've spent on the board). Maybe if and when they do their annual plan for next year, these can be background readings. That is, if they ever do any planning (they mostly do scheming, but that's another thing altogether).


It could be fun (and a whole bunch of laughs. :) )* I need a sponsor though to forward me the rulebook (and addendums) and procedure manuals (if it exists at all.)



Highly recommended viewing for the board members - The Business of Paradigms by Joel Barker. Kinda old, circa late 1980s, but the concepts are still very applicable today. It's all about resistance to change and paradigms.


You can add in Reengineering Management: Mandate for New Leadership by James Champy.* Some methods may be obsolete but it's a good read.* It's geared mostly on how management should treat changes as they are the greatest hurdle to any process change/improvement.

nel
08-08-2007, 11:16 AM
Got any books on how to develop common sense? That quality seems to be sorely lacking in the board.

GHRanger
08-08-2007, 11:21 AM
Sorry nel, I can only recommend the following:

2x4 by Cubao Wood Trading
3" by Sampaloc Plumbing

;D

gfy
08-08-2007, 11:30 AM
Kayo naman parang di kayo nag-aral ng human behavior in organization ;D. Di pwedeng biglain ang mga oldtimers sa Board. Pakaunti-kaunti lang. Start with the rules and regulations sa rulebook. Para malinaw lahat. Sabi nga ni A_Blooded in another thread re the foreigners rule, what is the penalty for the 3rd violation? *:D. Kung consistency ang pag-uusapan, the practice of allowing extension in the submission of the required eligibility documents pa-ibaiba.

Remember the guys on the eligibility committee, the technical committee and so on are full-time employees of their respective schools. Sideline lang nila ang participation sa committees. Dito siguro pwede tulungan sila para mapalinaw ang mga rules and regulations. Dito pinag-sisimulan ang maraming gulo.

atenean_blooded
08-08-2007, 11:34 AM
Mag-swap na lang ng boards ang UAAP at NCAA. ;D

Actually, gfy, I asked what the penalty would be for a third violation, and one even after that. I also asked what would happen if a coach makes ONE substitution to bring in two foreign players, but never pulls them out of the game, because he'd be fielding them only once.

Wang-Bu
08-08-2007, 11:34 AM
Got any books on how to develop common sense? That quality seems to be sorely lacking in the board.


Pwede diyan ang BI-AG NI LAM-ANG Sir Nel, puro good old fashioned Pinoy guts and know-how 'yon! ;D

Ayan na si Sir GFY, nilabas ng HBO ('yung human behavior ha, hindi 'yung sa cable TV...) Ito naman kasing si Sir Joe may nalalaman pang KRA, ayan naglabasan na tuloy lahat ng mga batang MBA natin dito.

Teka, baka mamaya 'yung mga abogado naman humirit ng TRO para dun sa mga -------nang matitigas ang ulo sa UAAP Board... ;D

GHRanger
08-08-2007, 11:42 AM
Kayo naman parang di kayo nag-aral ng human behavior in organization ;D. Di pwedeng biglain ang mga oldtimers sa Board. Pakaunti-kainti lang. Start with the rules and regulations sa rulebook. Para malinaw lahat. Sabi nga ni A_Blooded in another thread re the foreigners rule, what is the penalty for the 3rd violation? *:D. Kung consistency ang pag-uusapan, the practice of allowing extension in the submission of the required eligibility documents pa-ibaiba.

Remember the guys in the eligibility committee, the technical committee and so on are fulltime employees of their respective schools. Sideline lang nila ang participation sa committees. Dito siguro pwede tulungan sila para mapalinaw ang mga rules and regulations. Dito pinag-sisimulan ang maraming gulo.


;) ahhh... HUBEORG days... :) pwede bang corporal punishment?

But seriously, a road map should be made on how to approach the details. *Firefighting can only do so much.

IMHO, the technical committee should be empowered enough to decide without the board's wise interpretation. *The only way to do this is streamline the rules and make sure that the process from start (eligibility, reqts) to end (games, post mortems, reviews) are established.

oca
08-08-2007, 12:16 PM
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay naku!

Daming panukala. Eh, alam naman natin wala sa mga iyan ang maipapatupad kung 'di mababago ang collective composition ng Board.

Minsan ko nang sinulat at uulitin ko. Palitan ang Board by way of setting a term limit with absolutely no reappointment.

Paano ka magpapanukala ng term limits sa mga taong ayaw mismo umalis?

Dumiretso kayo sa mga school Presidents or University Board of Trustees or kung sino man ang may controlling shares or malakas ang influence.

Lapitan niyo ang mga iyan at ikampanya ang panukala. Once you can cconvince these people, they will simply issue a direct order to the person representing their university to vote in favor of term limits.

Base on how member schools have changed it's representative to the Board, it is safe to assume that ADMU, DLSU and UP will vote for term limits. Majority vote lang ang kailangan, so, dalawa na lang ang kulang.

Lapitan niyo si Lucio Tan to get UE's vote.

Pwede rin ang FEU. Pero malaking gulo ito sa pagitan ng Sy at Montinola.

May influence pa ba ang pamilya Jhocson sa NU? Kung Oo, marangal na pamilya yan. Lapitan.

Dalawa lang ang kulang.

Ang panukalang ito ay di abstract. Malinaw na course of action. Doable. Maaring mahirap, pero doable. At logical, dahil pinupuntirya nito ang ugat ng problema ng UAAP, yung collective composition ng Board na kung saan ang ilan ay inuugat na sa kanilang mga upuan.

bchoter
08-08-2007, 06:55 PM
^ Haaaaaayyyy naku pareng oca. Kung ganon wala na yatang pagasa sa Espana.

GH can I place an order for a truck load of 3" from Sampaloc Plumbing? If that won't work, maybe a drink from the murky waters of Rio de Espana or Lake Padre Noval will do the trick. Send all them to the hospital and than launch a coup with younger and more dynamic priests. Puwede bang umorder ng isang truck ng Fr. Caluag?

atenean_blooded
08-09-2007, 12:45 AM
^ Haaaaaayyyy naku pareng oca. Kung ganon wala na yatang pagasa sa Espana.

GH can I place an order for a truck load of 3" from Sampaloc Plumbing? If that won't work, maybe a drink from the murky waters of Rio de Espana or Lake Padre Noval will do the trick. Send all them to the hospital and than launch a coup with younger and more dynamic priests. Puwede bang umorder ng isang truck ng Fr. Caluag?


Medyo humina yata yung powers ni Fr. Caluag mula nang mawala yung "S.J." na nakakabit sa pangalan niya.

Yata.

GHRanger
08-10-2007, 09:56 AM
^ Haaaaaayyyy naku pareng oca. Kung ganon wala na yatang pagasa sa Espana.

GH can I place an order for a truck load of 3" from Sampaloc Plumbing? If that won't work, maybe a drink from the murky waters of Rio de Espana or Lake Padre Noval will do the trick. Send all them to the hospital and than launch a coup with younger and more dynamic priests. Puwede bang umorder ng isang truck ng Fr. Caluag?


Manong bchoter, Would you also like old school lead pipes to siphon your beverage as well? Free lead poisoning. ;D
Mahirap talagang ituro yung common sense keysa theoretics. Either you're patient or get them a lobotomy.

pareng Oca, medyo mahirap ata sa FEU. Malakas pa rin kapit ng pamilya Montinola sa eskwelahan. Paano ba naka organize yung leadership ng FEU sa pamilyang Sy at Montinola?

oca
08-10-2007, 10:34 AM
pareng Oca, medyo mahirap ata sa FEU.* Malakas pa rin kapit ng pamilya Montinola sa eskwelahan.* Paano ba naka organize yung leadership ng FEU sa pamilyang Sy at Montinola?



Sa totoo lang di ko alam set-up sa FEU. I was just speculating that if the Sy's were able to voice out their disaggrement (as posted in many forums) on how the Soc Rivero case was handled, baka pwede silang lapitan on the matter of setting term limits on Board Reps.

Malabo nga siguro makuha ang boto ng FEU dito.

But I am confident that if ADMU, DLSU and UP (alphabetical yan, ha!) will make a concerted and determined effort, they can go direct to Lucio Tan and get the vote of UE. Apat na yan. Isa na lang.

So, among AdU, NU and UST, sino ang pwedeng pagkunan ng fifth vote?

AdU is controlled by the Vincetenian priests, yun ang kwento sa akin. Di ko alam kung kadikit yan ng mga Dominicano o Jesuita o LaSalle brothers.

NU, I checked their school web site and the Jhocson family still dominates the school hierarchy. The Paguia's who have succeeded each other at the Board are very much part of the Jhocson family tree. So, pwede siguro makuha ang boto nila because the term limits will not disqualify another family member from representing the school.

As for UST, alam ko di sasang-ayon sa ganitong bagay ang mga Dominicano kung makita nilang magkakampi sa usapin ang mga Jesuita at LaSalle brothers. Kaya, palagay ko never boboto para dito ang USTe.

AdU at NU na lang ang pwedeng pagkunan ng fifth vote.

I strongly believe that if those who have sat at the Board for decades can be replaced, COLLECTIVELY magbabago ang pananaw nito. Pag nangyari na yan, saka ihain yung lahat ng panukalang pwedeng magpabuti sa UAAP.

Pero ganyang TINUBUAN NA NANG UGAT SA KANILANG PWESTO ang karamihan sa kanila, hwag kayong umasa na may makabuluhang pagbabago na mangyayari.

JonarSabilano
08-10-2007, 02:25 PM
pareng Oca, medyo mahirap ata sa FEU.* Malakas pa rin kapit ng pamilya Montinola sa eskwelahan.* Paano ba naka organize yung leadership ng FEU sa pamilyang Sy at Montinola?




AdU is controlled by the Vincetenian priests, yun ang kwento sa akin. Di ko alam kung kadikit yan ng mga Dominicano o Jesuita o LaSalle brothers.

AdU at NU na lang ang pwedeng pagkunan ng fifth vote.

I strongly believe that if those who have sat at the Board for decades can be replaced, COLLECTIVELY magbabago ang pananaw nito. Pag nangyari na yan, saka ihain yung lahat ng panukalang pwedeng magpabuti sa UAAP.

Pero ganyang TINUBUAN NA NANG UGAT SA KANILANG PWESTO ang karamihan sa kanila, hwag kayong umasa na may makabuluhang pagbabago na mangyayari.


Ang problema sa AdU, sa pagkakarinig ko, maski ang mga pari mismo, nag-aagawan ng puwesto. Hindi mo alam kung sino ang lalapitan, at kung paano.

batangueño
08-16-2007, 03:35 PM
I do not know if this is the right thread for this question but then, I'll give it a try.

Is the broadcasting rights for the UAAP really exclusive to ABS-CBN? I mean, can't we just give the radio coverage rights to Sports Radio instead of just having not-so-timely updates in that irritating FM radio station of ABS-CBN? ???