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gameface_one
04-22-2007, 09:17 PM
Kobe or MJ?


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THE GAME OF MY LIFE By BILL VELASCO

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The Los Angeles Lakers earned valuable playoff real estate near the rear in the Western Conference, taking the seventh seed. With all the injuries this season, the Showtime gang has needed Herculean efforts from Kobe Bryant to stay in the NBA playoffs.


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The Los Angeles Lakers earned valuable playoff real estate near the rear in the Western Conference, taking the seventh seed. With all the injuries this season, the Showtime gang has needed Herculean efforts from Kobe Bryant to stay in the NBA playoffs.

Meanwhile, the Chicago Tribune has reported that Bryant and Michael Jordan have become good buddies off the court. Amazingly enough, they have managed to cool off the competitive fires that had them in each other’s jerseys when Jordan was still playing. One of the topics they seem to debate about is which of them faced tougher defenses.

Some will argue that Bryant (owner of the most recent superhuman string of 50- and 40-point games and the 81-point explosion that launched a merchandising bonanza for the league) has had to contend with zone defenses and more athletic players. Granted that that may be the case, a good outside shooter can do well in a zone defense (as Kobe has become). But my money’s on Jordan, for several reasons.

When a skinny Jordan left North Carolina to join the struggling Chicago Bulls, who did he have? He joined a team with 38 wins and 44 losses and got blown out in the first round of the playoffs. The following season, Jordan broke his foot, and came back just in time to salvage an appearance against the Boston Celtics in the first round, where he scored a playoff-record 63 points in one game. Larry Bird then made his famous comment "He’s God, disguised as Michael Jordan."

Jordan had entire teams design defenses around him, including the champion Detroit Pistons, who hammered him every time he stubbornly attacked the basket. The Boston Celtics threw its best defensive players at him. He was guarded by everyone from 6’3" Vinnie Johnson to the 6’7" Dennis Rodman to the 6’10" Detlef Schrempf. All great defensive players. Remember the Jordan Rules? That was the name the Pistons internally gave the "no lay-up" rule. Kobe also has some tough dudes to deal with in Ruben Patterson, Ron Artest and others, but I doubt if any of them will be in the Hall of Fame.

In his fifth and sixth seasons, Jordan would take his teams to the brink of championships, losing in the Eastern Conference finals twice before finally claiming his first NBA title. It took seven years for Jordan to win the first of six championships. That was because it took Jerry Krause that long to surround him with quality players like Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant.

When Kobe Bryant entered the NBA, he had Eddie Jones and Nick van Exel to teach him. Actually, Del Harris did a terrible job of keeping Bryant on the bench, and Kobe still had bright spots, albeit horrible moments playing out of control, too. But to his benefit, LA almost traded their entire future away with the uncertainty of landing Shaquille O’Neal. That certainly took a lot of defensive pressure off Bryant.

Early in his career, Kobe became a top sixth man, a Slam Dunk champion and the league’s youngest All-Star Game starter. But he was the second banana on the Lakers when Shaq came along. Even Phil Jackson once blurted "This is Shaq’s team," and offered to trade Bryant, who was increasingly vocal about his discontentment. In spite of that, the Lakers won three championships, from 2000 to 2002.

Also going against Bryant is the fact that he hasn’t won anything without Shaq, or any dominant big man, for that matter. In the six championships that Jordan won, there were only two players present throughout: Jordan and Pippen. That means that Jordan was always the first option, and always the focal point of the defense. Bryant is experiencing that now, but the results are dissimilar.

Furthermore, the NBA has experienced a change in its make-up which impacts the quality of play more in Bryant’s career. More young players entered the league from high school or early college, and more international players (who play less physical defense) also joined the NBA. Add to this an expansion wherein NBDL players get called up even late in the regular season, and you have an idea how diluted the talent has become in some places. In Jordan’s time, you find a big chunk of the league’s 50 greatest players, in a league with less teams.

Given all the adversity Jordan has had to face, look at the hardware. MVP Awards: 5. Finals MVPs: 6. And we’re not even talking years leading the league in scoring, or making the All-Defensive team. Some people say that Bryant is living Jordan’s career, backwards. The championships came first, then the change of number and scoring outbursts. But if you ask me who faced tougher opposition, it’s MJ. No contest.

Kid Cubao
04-23-2007, 10:46 AM
MJ had the more complete game. aside from all those NBA hardware and MVP accolades, jordan was named first team all-defensive selection countless times and won the NBA defensive player of the year in the same season he paced the league with a 37 pt scoring average. think about it: the league's best scoring machine is also the best defensive stopper that season. in terms of physical attributes and sheer intelligence, kobe would have achieved MJ's preeminence as a defensive demon, but he doesn't have the desire to go to the lengths that jordan did in his prime.

casual_observer
04-23-2007, 01:04 PM
hi! :)

Michael Jordan is Michael Jordan. Kobe Bryant might be doing a name for himself right now but he is still light years away from becoming something like Michael Jordan.

nel
04-23-2007, 04:54 PM
On Kobe's number change from 8 to 24, someone once remarked that Kobe seemed to be taking one-upmanship to another arena. MJ's number was 23, so Kobe went one over with his current 24. Don't know how true this is, but given Kobe's massive ego and desire to shine in his own right, it certainly seems plausible. I still remember his first all-star game, and how he refused Karl Malone's attempt to give him a screen, instead electing to go one-on-one. Alas for Kobe, there's no "I" in the word "team". He'll forever be remembered as a great scorer, but probably never as the ideal teammate.

Jordan could and did score when he had to, but the NBA was chock full of scorers even during his time. What set him apart was his unmatched will to win, even if it meant that he had to pass the ball with the game on the line. Remember his pass to Steve Kerr that won the championship for the Bulls? I doubt if Kobe will ever consider passing the ball in such a situation. I guess that's why Kobe will never attain the stature that MJ achieved, unless he has a total change of perspective and decides to accept the fact that he has 4 teammates on the floor whose roles are not just to feed him the ball.

flsfnoeraekadad
04-23-2007, 05:03 PM
Kobe!!! :D

Joescoundrel
04-23-2007, 05:05 PM
No question: It's Michael Jordan all the way.

GHRanger
04-23-2007, 05:34 PM
Michael Jordan all the way.

mighty_lion
04-23-2007, 11:02 PM
Kobe is the current greatest scorer in the planet, no questions asked. He fears no one on the offensive end. Has competitiveness and mental toughness to be a winner. Jordan was the same set of guy with the exception that he inflicts more fear and intimidation more than anyone else. Pagnakita mo si Jordan sa court at kalaban kang team, admit or not kinakabahan kana.

Jordan played with a team which is heavy on defense (pippen, rodman, etc). Imagine a team like employing 3 bruce bowen caliber type of defense at the same time??? If such team exist today, do you ever think kobe, wade, lebron, melo, arenas will be able to match up such type of a defensive team? Chicago's offense is driven by its defense, no matter what how you call it triangle offense. Kobe's team is far away in terms of Jordan's team.

Bennie Bangag
04-24-2007, 08:34 AM
Jordan played with a team which is heavy on defense (pippen, rodman, etc). Imagine a team like employing 3 bruce bowen caliber type of defense at the same time???

in chicago's second dynasty from 1996 to 1998, the defense was anchored on michael jordan, scottie pippen, dennis rodman, and ron harper. these four are no more than two inches apart from the shortest to the tallest from 6'6 to 6'8, but as a unit they have the range and versatility to defend each of the five positions from point guard to center--with rodman as the premier low post defender and rebounder at the time.

Jeep
04-24-2007, 10:47 AM
MJ any ol' day!

freak
04-24-2007, 09:57 PM
Yeah... I'll go with MJ, no questions asked. :)

nel
05-01-2007, 12:05 AM
Magic Johnson was interviewed during today's game, and his comments on why Nash is such a great player seemed an indirect indictment of Kobe. He said Nash was great because of 3 things: his pass-first mentality, his ability to make his teammates better players, and his leadership.

Kobe, does seem to have a pass-first approach - pass the ball to me as the first option. He does force his teammates to be better - that is, passers (to him) and watchers, as he monopolizes the ball during the offense while everyone observes. He will usually pass only as a last resort, and today, several of his passes were picked off because he had become predictable. Leadership? Well, he has to respect his teammates, and the way he gets on them when things don't go right says tons about his leadership perspective.

Aside from scoring the bulk of the points, Kobe seems to have the ball the majority of the time the Lakers are on offense, which is beginning to look less and less like the triangle that Phil Jackson has been known for. The high degree of difficulty of Kobe's shots may be eye-pleasers, but when the majority of his shots fall into this category, you begin to wonder. Guess Jackson loves his job so much that he defers to his superstar, because the triangle offense seems to have changed shape into a box and 1 - the other Lakers clear out and let Kobe do his thing. And I thought the box and 1 was a defensive ploy.

Kobe is a great scorer, but until he changes his attitude towards the team game, that's all he'll ever be known as.

gameface_one
09-04-2007, 06:59 PM
Kobe Bryant visits Manila Wednesday
abs-cbnnews.com

NBA superstar Kobe Bryant of the LA Lakers is set to visit Manila Wednesday to launch a new line of shoes in his name and conduct a basketball clinic for young Filipino players.

A press conference has been set at 10 a.m. at the Makati Shangri-La Hotel.

He will also meet with children from the Eliseo Belen Charity home at Nike Park at The Fort.

From there, he will spearhead "Kobe Supernatural Manila Event" at Philsports Arena in Pasig City.

Melissa Crucillo, Nike Philippines' country marketing manager, said the NBA superstar will unveil the new version of "Kobe II," part of the Fall 2007 basketball footwear product line. The new product line will hit Asian markets on September 6.

aircanda
09-04-2007, 10:02 PM
Alas for Kobe, there's no "I" in the word "team". He'll forever be remembered as a great scorer, but probably never as the ideal teammate.


Im sori sir nel but i couldnt help but to disagree.. Yes, I admit that in the past.. Kobe was often regarded as a selfish, self-centered player.. In fact, inis na inis din ako kay Kobe nun.. Im not even mazed with Kobe's 35 ppg. avg. 2 seasons ago.. But when I came to realize what he has done this spast season, I started to believe that he has become a changed man.

Just look, Kobe's avg from 35ppg fell down to 31ppg. and his assists avg. also started to go up (not just sure of the exact no.) meaning he has been passing the ball and letting his teamates getting involved..

And I can understand Kobe if he takes a lot of shots. Why? Because his teammates are just not that good. He also does not have a Pippen like Jordan (Odom is not doing that good). So i think that it is the management's fault why the lakers are slumping.

And with the "kobe is not the ideal teammate" thing.. Just look at the USA team amigo..

But i wont disagree that Jordan is the best because he really is. and madame pang kakaining bigas si Kobe.. A man like Jordan would only come once in a lifetime (pero tngen ko c james ang pinakamalapet..hehehe)

jayverns
09-05-2007, 12:11 AM
MICHAEL JORDAN!!! KOBE YOU ****!!!

gameface_one
09-05-2007, 09:22 AM
Kobe in town for ‘super’ tour

The Philippine Star

NBA superstar Kobe Bryant of the Los Angeles Lakers hit town Tuesday night for a one-day visit kicking off his 2007 Supernatural Asia Tour.

The 29-year-old cage icon, one of the top NBA players whom Filipino kids idolize for his talent and skills, will share his training regimen with the local players in a cage clinic at the Philsports Arena at 2 p.m. Wednesday.

Bryant, who arrived Tuesday night via a Nike Air Jet, is coming off a splendid performance in the FIBA Americas where he helped steer Team USA to a sweep of the Olympic qualifiers in Las Vegas.

The NBA star will begin his day-long activities with a press conference at 11 a.m. at the Shangri-La Hotel in Makati City.

After meeting with the local mediamen, Bryant will head straight to the Nike Park at The Fort in Taguig at 2 p.m. to meet and greet the kids from Eliseo Belen Charity.

He will then proceed to the Philsports Arena at 3 p.m. for a clinic, according to Nike Phils.

Manila is Bryant’s first stop for his 2007 Supernatural Asia Tour, which will also cover Taipei, Hong Kong, Shanghai and Beijing.

To be launched during the tour is the new version of Kobe II, part of the Fall 2007 basketball footwear product line. The shoes will hit the Asian markets Thursday.

Born Aug. 23, 1978, Bryant rose to prominence in 1996 when he became the first guard in league history to be drafted out of high school.

He and Shaquille O’Neal led the Lakers to three consecutive NBA championships from 2000 to 2002 and was the NBA’s leading scorer during the 2005-2006 and 2006-2007 seasons. Michael Punongbayan

gameface_one
10-27-2007, 09:27 AM
Advice to Kobe
THE GAME OF MY LIFE By Bill Velasco
Saturday, October 27, 2007
mb.com.ph


The Kobe Bryant trade rumors haven’t died down. On the contrary, they’ve flared up even more, with some going so far as to say that the Team USA mainstay would be traded within the week.

A few days ago, former NBA champion and current television commentator Kenny Smith gave a list of things not to do when you want to be traded. Some of it makes sense, and some of it isn’t applicable to the situations of current players. Let’s look over his list, and add a little of our own flavor.

Never talk about being underpaid so you can be traded. So many players have made the mistake of opening their mouths about their “difficult” situation, when they make as much as some cities do. Anderson Varejao, for example, who was conspicuously absent from the Cleveland Cavaliers losses in the NBA China Games, haggled for a $9-million a year deal, at six points, six rebounds a game. Who’ll bite?

Never let anyone know how much you want to go. This just breeds bad blood all around. No fan or teammate will feel sorry for you when you whine.

Never trust the press. I think this should be amended to “never trust the press to do your job for you.” Quotes get taken out of context, misinterpreted, and add fuel to animosity. Think Kobe Bryant.

Never diss your teammates. Absolutely the worst thing you can do is be a malcontent who gets everyone around him angry. And if your teammates can’t trust you on the court, things won’t get better. Nobody will put in a good word, either.

Don’t attack the coach. You wouldn’t want to be enemies with the one person whose vote for you counts. The coach has your playing time and role in his hands. Even though they say players win games and coaches lose them, coaches can also make careers.

Never publicly say which cities you want to go to. Deal from a position of strength. Why alienate your present fans, and give the teams in other cities leverage to negotiate you down? Talk privately, so you don’t breed hostility.

Keep your family and business separate. Speak for yourself. Don’t let your parents, siblings, wife or girlfriend meet the press. It just muddles the issue, because they may not have all the facts, and they often have their own opinion. Besides, if you’re worth all that money, why can’t you talk on your own behalf?

Tell your agent to be an agent, not a quote machine. Agents are there to negotiate contracts, and work out business deals. You look like a money-grubber who can’t be bothered with meeting the media on his own terms.

Never miss games, practices or team functions trying to get traded. The one thing you are getting paid for is to play the game, whichever sport it is. If you start sitting out, then you’re getting paid for nothing. I remember the mid-season sit-out by Patrick Ewing when he was suddenly not among the three highest-paid players in the league.

It did not look good.

Remember, someone has to want you to be traded. If nobody in management thinks you should be traded, shut up and play. It’s hard to cheer for somebody who may be a great player, but complains about everything and makes it hard to trust him. If you just say your piece, then work hard, you will get sympathy.

Memo to Kobe.

yokam
10-27-2007, 12:51 PM
Kobe and MJ both live in different basketball/NBA eras. Jordan lived during the time when teams kept their star players and doesn't easily let them go. Kobe on the other hand is on a somewhat old-fashioned team in a modern world. There's a lot of marquee players that has been sent to different teams lately, yet the Lakers are still stuck with their own mediocre line-up for about 2 seasons.

Regarding their skills, Jordan is definitely a lot better and more well-rounded than Kobe. Jordan is the better leader. As for Kobe, all I can say is that he's the better scorer.

addikt
02-08-2008, 02:00 AM
Shooting - Kobe **although MJ has the better looking fadeaways**
Inside scoring / Penetrating the defense - MJ
3pointers - Kobe
Defense - MJ
Speed - Kobe
Strength - MJ
Explosiveness - MJ
Leadership - MJ
Clutch - MJ
Desire - Kobe

KOBE - 4
MJ - 6

MJ is the better player by my standards...but im still a Kobe Bryant fan......

erichubert
02-08-2008, 11:55 AM
Kobe and MJ are really very similar with their game but they played in two very very different eras. The athleticism in the league nowadays is phenomenal and this makes players like Kobe not stand out as much like before when MJ was playing against the likes of Reggie Miller, Chris Mullin or Larry Bird. This is not to say that the talent level before was lower, its just a different game nowadays.

Although if we are to compare, I say MJ was better all around and more clutch than Kobe and his 6 championship rings with multiple MVPs show that. I do think that Kobe was inherently more talented than MJ, what he can do when he sets his mind to do it is mind-boggling to say the least.

char11
02-17-2008, 03:13 PM
In a competition of accomplishments MJ as of now is better than Kobe. So if you're going to use that as a means to compare the two then of course it's obvious that Jordan trumps Kobe as of now.

In any case, I think it's unfair to pit anyone against MJ right now because he has already been established as the best guard, if not best player in the NBA's history and the only thing that would stop it is for someone to top his credentials.

Skill wise in time I guess Kobe would definitely be better(if not better by now) based on the logic that in a time where everyone wanted to be like Mike or be better than Mike (skill-wise), given the abundance of talent, for Kobe to stand-out amongst his peers would mean that he would be at least in MJ's level by now, close to it, or even better. What's good to note is that every year, Kobe seems to be improving his arsenal and logically he's the next step to the evolution.

Jordan raised the bar, but I think people have caught up skill-wise. What remains would be the drive to be the best in the game and the rings come with it. So until Kobe matches or gets past Jordan's 6 championships, there won't be a legitimate debate on who's better. Because even a 81 point performance won't make you the best if you don't get the trophies.

stonecold316
02-18-2008, 01:00 AM
I still pick MJ over Kobe.

Six NBA rings compared to three is still greater to me. ;D ;D ;D

stonecold316

flsfnoeraekadad
02-18-2008, 10:12 PM
Kobe. Those three rings are just lingering around the corner with Gasol and the vast improvement of Bynum and the Laker bench.

dark_seid
03-15-2008, 10:59 PM
espn did a special on the best sg's ever (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-GreatestSGs) with every bball expert on their roster being polled.

the result: kobe bryant and jerry west were battling for 2nd best.

gameface_one
05-07-2008, 08:54 AM
Lakers guard Kobe Bryant poised to be named MVP
Reuters

LOS ANGELES - Lakers guard Kobe Bryant is widely expected to receive the Most Valuable Player (MVP) award for the first time after the NBA scheduled a news conference for Tuesday at a Los Angeles hotel.

Two days ago, the Los Angeles Times reported that Bryant would receive the trophy from commissioner David Stern, citing anonymous sources familiar with the result of the media vote.

Although NBA spokesman Mark Broussard was not prepared to disclose details, he said the news conference would feature an award announcement and a presentation.

Asked what the award would mean to him, Bryant told reporters on Saturday: "It's a great honor. I'm very thankful for it.

"I didn't know if it was going to come or it was going to happen in my career. But to have that moment come now is special, especially to share it with the group of guys we have here, it's nice.

"We talked about (how) winning this MVP is extremely special because that means I'm doing good. I'm making my team mates better, putting them in a position to win."

The prestigious award, selected by NBA writers and broadcasters, would mark Bryant's first MVP trophy after 12 seasons.

Top players

Long regarded as one of the league's top players, the All Star guard led the Lakers to the number one spot in the Western Conference, averaging 28.3 points, 6.3 rebounds, 5.4 assists and 1.84 steals during the regular season.

He went on to average 33.5 points, 5.3 rebounds and 6.3 assists in leading the Lakers to a first-round sweep of the Denver Nuggets and top-scored with 38 points in Sunday's 109-98 win over the Utah Jazz in Game One of the conference semi-finals.

Bryant, who helped the Lakers win three consecutive championships between 2000 and 2002, has relished playing this season in a stronger team, which is pushing for its first NBA finals appearance in four years.

"We have a lot of players that can step in at any given moment and make contributions," he said last week. "My guys knock down shots now. I just do whatever we have to do to win."

The closest Bryant had come to the MVP award was third place after the 2002-03 season and again last year.

He would be the fourth Laker to win the award, following Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Magic Johnson and Shaquille O'Neal.

tigerman
05-07-2008, 12:37 PM
Kobe. Those three rings are just lingering around the corner with Gasol and the vast improvement of Bynum and the Laker bench.


Kobe is better than MJ or you're just being a Laker fan?



USTE LO MEJOR!
VIVA SANTO TOMAS!

marmand
05-07-2008, 12:49 PM
MJ without a doubt. I am not a Kobe hater but MJ's game was impressive in all aspects of the game. He was good both at offense and defense. MJ made his team mates better. Look at Rodman, He was good when he was with the Pistons and Spurs but when He played with MJ, He raised his game to another level. Same can be said about Kerr, His days with the Cavs were mediocre but his Bull's days were on another level that actually made a name for him.

jeffjan
05-07-2008, 01:14 PM
Michael Jordan.

-6 NBA Championships
-6-time Finals MVP
-5-time Season MVP
-2-time Olympic Champion
-1985 Rookie of the Year
-1988 Defensive Player of the Year
-10-time All-NBA 1st team
-9-time All-Defensive team
-one of the 50 greatest NBA players
-14-time All-Star
-2-time Slam Dunk Champion

bchoter
05-07-2008, 01:18 PM
6 rings as the lead player is greater than 3 rings as a second fiddle

erichubert
05-07-2008, 01:37 PM
I think it is really useless to debate this, if we are going to go about stats and awards, clearly MJ is the better player, if we are going to go about skills and talent, people say it is debatable and so on and so forth. The point is both played in different eras, and their careers played out differently. So the safest thing we could say is that their games are similar and I think Kobe is his generation's MJ.

joelex
05-08-2008, 04:00 AM
MJ had to lead a team on his won all 6 titles he won. Pippen was a superb player but never was a franshise level player and as good as he is, he wont command double teams to free up MJ.

Kobe has won 3 rings all with the Daddy attracting triple teams. Without the diesel, he led the Lakers at best only to a low seeded playoff team bowing out of the first round. Before Gasol came on board, the Lakers were hovering around .500.

Meanwhile, Shaq went on to capture another ring after leaving LA.

and did i mention that MJ never asked for a trade despite having the likes of Jud Buechler, Bill Wennington, Luc Longley and Randy Brown as teammates?

Kid Cubao
05-08-2008, 07:42 AM
iba ang mentality ni MJ. for the longest time, he was grossly underpaid by the bulls for a purpose: so that he will be surrounded with the right supporting cast, since even then he was already being handsomely rewarded by madison avenue with his endorsements of nike, wilson, mcdonald's, hanes, etc. what's more, when jordan was finally given THE CONTRACT ($38 million per annum) on the eve of the bulls' second dynasty from 96-98, no one ever accused him of being overpaid--unlike the present a-rod of the yankees, david beckham of the LA galaxy and most other celebrity athletes. everyone knows that jordan is committed to winning, and nothing else. none of that "who's the man?" pseudo macho stuff by today's NBA stars.

tigerman
05-08-2008, 08:18 AM
I think MJ's jersey was retired in Miami.

Can we think of another player whose jersey was retired by a team he did not play for?




USTE LO MEJOR!
VIVA SANTO TOMAS!

mighty_lion
05-08-2008, 08:50 AM
I think MJ's jersey was retired in Miami.


Talaga? How come?

erichubert
05-08-2008, 09:47 AM
MJ had to lead a team on his won all 6 titles he won. Pippen was a superb player but never was a franshise level player and as good as he is, he wont command double teams to free up MJ.

Kobe has won 3 rings all with the Daddy attracting triple teams. Without the diesel, he led the Lakers at best only to a low seeded playoff team bowing out of the first round. Before Gasol came on board, the Lakers were hovering around .500.

Meanwhile, Shaq went on to capture another ring after leaving LA.

and did i mention that MJ never asked for a trade despite having the likes of Jud Buechler, Bill Wennington, Luc Longley and Randy Brown as teammates?


Yes he had to lead all those 6 teams, but people still underestimate Pippen's roles in those teams. So what if he had Buechler, Wennington and Longley as teammates, he had Kukoc, Rodman, Harper too. And he didn't have to play in the most competitive conference in the NBA, and had fewer superstars to contend with.

The_Big_Cat
05-08-2008, 10:22 AM
Michael Jordan.
-6 NBA Championships
-6-time Finals MVP
-5-time Season MVP
-2-time Olympic Champion
-1985 Rookie of the Year
-1988 Defensive Player of the Year
-10-time All-NBA 1st team
-9-time All-Defensive team
-one of the 50 greatest NBA players
-14-time All-Star
-2-time Slam Dunk Champion

Michael Jordan won a US NCAA National Championship at North Carolina in 1982.
In every level, Michael Jordan has done it: College, NBA and the Olympics.
That is why many critics consider him as The Greatest to ever play the game of Basketball.

jeffjan
05-08-2008, 12:09 PM
I think MJ's jersey was retired in Miami.


Talaga? How come?


Ni-retire ni Pat Riley yung Miami #23 for MJ as a sign of respect, imo.

ilang beses nagkaroon ng hard-fought games ang teams ni Riley and MJ.

joelex
05-08-2008, 12:33 PM
MJ had to lead a team on his won all 6 titles he won. Pippen was a superb player but never was a franshise level player and as good as he is, he wont command double teams to free up MJ.

Kobe has won 3 rings all with the Daddy attracting triple teams. Without the diesel, he led the Lakers at best only to a low seeded playoff team bowing out of the first round. Before Gasol came on board, the Lakers were hovering around .500.

Meanwhile, Shaq went on to capture another ring after leaving LA.

and did i mention that MJ never asked for a trade despite having the likes of Jud Buechler, Bill Wennington, Luc Longley and Randy Brown as teammates?


Yes he had to lead all those 6 teams, but people still underestimate Pippen's roles in those teams. So what if he had Buechler, Wennington and Longley as teammates, he had Kukoc, Rodman, Harper too. And he didn't have to play in the most competitive conference in the NBA, and had fewer superstars to contend with.


I am a big fan of Scottie Pippen but during the 96-97 season, the Bulls were still number one in the NBA until January when Pip was injured. I guess MJ was still good enough to make his team win.

The east then wasnt bad at all, NY and Indy were always contenders, as well as Miami and Orlando. The east and west back then were arguably equal in strength.

Harper and Kukoc were never more than role players in their careers.

Bottomline is MJ was a winner no matter what and his competitiveness and drive for perfection was what made him the greatest athlete of all time.

The_Big_Cat
05-08-2008, 12:50 PM
iba ang mentality ni MJ. for the longest time, he was grossly underpaid by the bulls f

Jordan was getting more money from his endorsements rather from his salary.

I recall before the 1992 season started The Bulls were in the process of acquiring Toni Kukoc. The Bulls would have paid more money for Kukoc than Jordan which triggered a rift between MJ and the Bulls owner. And this became evident in the Gold Medal game in the 1992 Barcelona Olympics as the Jordan-led The Dream Team thrashed Toni Kukoc's Croatia. Jordan's contract was reconstructed after that and Kukoc debut for the Bulls in '93.

Kid Cubao
05-08-2008, 01:17 PM
^^ actually it was scottie pippen who was incensed at bulls management upon learning that the forthcoming arrival of european superstar toni kukoc was the reason he wasn't initially able to get the contract he wanted. inilabas nya ang inis at sama ng loob kay kukoc sa gold medal game between the dream team and croatia--sya ang bumantay kay toni.

The_Big_Cat
05-08-2008, 01:21 PM
^Yes. Pippen and Jordan took turns in guarding Kukoc. Jordan was also irritated by the huge contract Kukoc was about to receive considering he was going to be a newcomer in the NBA.

Jordan, Pippen and Kukoc played for 3 championship seasons with the Bulls with 1996 as their best season together.
Jordan got the MVP, Pippen voted to the All-Defensive team and Kukoc winning the 6th Man of the Year Award all in 1996.

erichubert
05-08-2008, 01:26 PM
I agree that Jordan's achievement clearly is far superior than Kobe, not even close. But what I am pointing out is that Jordan's support crew isn't too shabby. Remember when MJ retired the first time, the following year, the Bulls still made the conference semifinals with Pippen, so they were not bad at all. The second 3 peat Bulls were even better with Rodman, Harper and Kukoc there.

Jeep
05-08-2008, 01:35 PM
I think it is really useless to debate this, if we are going to go about stats and awards, clearly MJ is the better player, if we are going to go about skills and talent, people say it is debatable and so on and so forth. The point is both played in different eras, and their careers played out differently. So the safest thing we could say is that their games are similar and I think Kobe is his generation's MJ.


this statement could be the start of another altogether different debate. i would hazard that lebron james is this present generation's MJ. heck, they even have the same jersey numbers for crying out loud! ;)

Kid Cubao
05-08-2008, 01:38 PM
in fairness to kobe, he's a much different player and person today; kumbaga, KB24 is a whole different person from KB8. KB24 is now a team leader who knows how to involve his teammates, and give due credit and praise when the situation warrants it. he's the best player in the planet right now, and his participation in the 2008 US men's basketball team in the beijing olympics is the single most compelling reason why people all over the world will be tuning in to the Games :)

dark_seid
05-08-2008, 01:55 PM
it is always hard to compare athletes from different generations. although for us sports fans, it is a nice debate to have.

the best criteria to compare players who never played each other in their primes is the way they affected/dominated the other players/opponents in their time. so to think about it. these are the contemporaries of jordan and their incapability to dominate the game.

1) olajuwon
2) barkley
3) stockton and malone
4) ewing
5) robinson
6) drexler

then think about kobe's contemporaries like duncan garnett kidd nash and nowitzki and their brilliance/dominance at various points in the decade.

tigerman
05-08-2008, 04:23 PM
I agree that Jordan's achievement clearly is far superior than Kobe, not even close. But what I am pointing out is that Jordan's support crew isn't too shabby. Remember when MJ retired the first time, the following year, the Bulls still made the conference semifinals with Pippen, so they were not bad at all. The second 3 peat Bulls were even better with Rodman, Harper and Kukoc there.



Not to take anything away from Harper but he was already considered a "has-been" from the time he played in Chicago.



USTE LO MEJOR!
VIVA SANTO TOMAS!

marmand
05-08-2008, 04:28 PM
I agree that Jordan's achievement clearly is far superior than Kobe, not even close. But what I am pointing out is that Jordan's support crew isn't too shabby. Remember when MJ retired the first time, the following year, the Bulls still made the conference semifinals with Pippen, so they were not bad at all. The second 3 peat Bulls were even better with Rodman, Harper and Kukoc there.



Not to take anything away from Harper but he was already considered a "has-been" from the time he played in Chicago.



USTE LO MEJOR!
VIVA SANTO TOMAS!



True, MJ revived his career. He was not the same high scoring player, he was in Cleveland and the Clippers.

erichubert
05-08-2008, 04:35 PM
I know, he was more of an old Jerry Stackhouse (present version), but his veteran smarts and defense was still very valuable to the Bulls, even up to the time he played for the Lakers during its championship run.

marmand
05-08-2008, 04:43 PM
I know, he was more of an old Jerry Stackhouse (present version), but his veteran smarts and defense was still very valuable to the Bulls, even up to the time he played for the Lakers during its championship run.



More like a Bruce Bowen type. Defensive stopper with a 3pt shot.

Kid Cubao
05-08-2008, 04:52 PM
i wouldn't call ron harper a has-been when he was acquired by the bulls. he can still score, if he had his way. but in chicago, he had to play within the system created by phil jackson, and under that, he was the 3rd scoring option (which he jointly held with toni kukoc) behind jordan and pippen. sa tingin ko, when he was first acquired by jerry krause back in 1994, ron harper was actually being primed for a much more prominent role in the aftermath of jordan's initial retirement. but then, when MJ came out of his childhood baseball infatuation, nagbago yung role ni harper from lead to supporting. think about it.

he became more of a defender and jump shooter during the reign of the power trio of jordan, pippen and rodman, but having him meant that the bulls will always have an ace up its sleeve in the area of scoring production. may mga beses nga na sya ang nagdadala ng ilang playing quarters, lalo na nung inaalat si pippen at pinagpapahinga si jordan.

stonecold316
05-08-2008, 05:05 PM
Nothing compares to his airness Michael Jordan. He is probably the best player that ever played the game of basketball. Si Kobe naman, it remains to be seen kung mapantayan man niya ang achievements ni Jordan.

stonecold316

erichubert
05-08-2008, 05:16 PM
Although Kobe fan ako, given na 29 years old turning 30 na siya, I doubt he can still catch MJ's record, plus the parity of teams nowadays and the emergence of stars making it harder to win multiple championships. One player I think has a chance is Lebron. If he will get help soon, he can break MJ's records.

marmand
05-08-2008, 05:22 PM
I do not think that anyone can repeat what MJ did. LBJ could but not the way MJ accomplished all his awards and most important 6 rings in 8 years.

erichubert
05-08-2008, 05:26 PM
The championships would be hard I think, that would remain safely with MJ. But the individual awards can be broken. I think one record of MJ though that is not going to be challenged is the 10 scoring titles, medyo mahirap iyon mabreak.

marmand
05-08-2008, 05:32 PM
The scoring and at the same time being part of the defensive team is also hard to accomplish. The Dream could have done it but he never won the scoring title.

The_Big_Cat
05-08-2008, 08:20 PM
The championships would be hard I think, that would remain safely with MJ. But the individual awards can be broken. I think one record of MJ though that is not going to be challenged is the 10 scoring titles, medyo mahirap iyon mabreak.

LeBron James is only 23 years and has won his first scoring title. I think he can break Jordan's scoring record if he stays healthy.

As far is Kobe Bryant is concerned, he is truly the "best one-on-one player on the planet" right now.
Yesterday's ESPN Fastbreak, LeBron was asked about Kobe Bryant's MVP season and LeBron replied that Kobe as far as he is concerned is the best player in the NBA for the past five years. And further adds that he truly deserves the MVP plum.

marmand
05-08-2008, 09:15 PM
The championships would be hard I think, that would remain safely with MJ. But the individual awards can be broken. I think one record of MJ though that is not going to be challenged is the 10 scoring titles, medyo mahirap iyon mabreak.

LeBron James is only 23 years and has won his first scoring title. I think he can break Jordan's scoring record if he stays healthy.

As far is Kobe Bryant is concerned, he is truly the "best one-on-one player on the planet" right now.
Yesterday's ESPN Fastbreak, LeBron was asked about Kobe Bryant's MVP season and LeBron replied that Kobe as far as he is concerned is the best player in the NBA for the past five years. And further adds that he truly deserves the MVP plum.



Yes, but if MJ was still active as a player and is still in his prime then hands down MJ would win the scoring title and probably a couple more rings.

The_Big_Cat
05-08-2008, 09:44 PM
Michael Jordan missed the entire 1993-94 season and came back march 1995. Those were the season were the Rockets won their back-to-back titles. If Jordan didn't retire, he would have won at least one of those titles and probably two more scoring titles.

Michael Jordan, in my book, is the greatest player to ever play the game.
Nagpa package pa nga ako ng Michael Jordan Cologne noong 1996. ;D

marmand
05-08-2008, 09:57 PM
Michael Jordan missed the entire 1993-94 season and came back march 1995. Those were the season were the Rockets won their back-to-back titles. If Jordan didn't retire, he would have won at least one of those titles and probably two more scoring titles.

Michael Jordan, in my book, is the greatest player to ever play the game.
Nagpa package pa nga ako ng Michael Jordan Cologne noong 1996. ;D


The Dream would beg to differ. However, if MJ did not retire and won those two championships then the Bulls would have tied the Boston Celtics ( I think its 8 straight titles in the 60's ) for the most consecutive titles won.

erichubert
05-09-2008, 02:11 PM
But those are just speculations, we wouldn't know if he would win those two championships, personally I don't think so, his mind wasn't in basketball anymore that time, he would have been distracted and uninspired.

marmand
05-09-2008, 04:24 PM
But those are just speculations, we wouldn't know if he would win those two championships, personally I don't think so, his mind wasn't in basketball anymore that time, he would have been distracted and uninspired.





With the death of his father, Yes his game would have been off. However, its interesting to just think of the possibility of the record of the Celtics ( most consecutive titles ) being matched by MJ and the Bulls. It could have also force him to play the 1999 season just to try to break the record. Oh, well. too much ifs for this thought but interesting indeed.

dark_seid
05-09-2008, 05:27 PM
everybody forgets ...
michael never got to faced off in a series with a in-his-peak post player like olajuwon (possibly 5th or 6th best center ever peaked at 94 and 95) and shaq (4th best peaked at 2000).

BigBlue
05-09-2008, 06:53 PM
everybody forgets ...
michael never got to faced off in a series with a in-his-peak post player like olajuwon (possibly 5th or 6th best center ever peaked at 94 and 95) and shaq (4th best peaked at 2000).


Karl Malone? Shawn Kemp? Altho they were more mobile and werent strictly limited to the post, both of them were above-average operators at the low post.

Teka, dark_seid, what is the relevance of this to the discussion?

marmand
05-09-2008, 07:00 PM
Sir Charles was a good post player. ( 93 finals ) but the Rockets always did give the Bulls with MJ problems in the regular season. Pity they never met in the finals. ( Almost, no thanks to a Stockton 3 and a bear hug by Malone. )

Joescoundrel
05-10-2008, 02:57 AM
Michael Jordan. When Kobe Bryant wins six NBA championships, an NCAA championship and two Olympic gold medals quite apart from three MVP awards and two Defensive Player of the Year awards and eight scoring corwns then and only then should he be even mentioned in the same breath as Jordan.

MonL
05-10-2008, 05:05 AM
MJ.

Because he played with Bugs Bunny.* ;D

And he proved that he can take any bunch of Loonies off the street and still win very important games all by himself in the end.* And I'm talking about :

Migraine Pippen
Drag Queen Rodman
Surfboard Longley
Invisi-Bill Cartwright
and other fringe players getting a second chance and winning big time.

;D

shyboy
05-10-2008, 12:21 PM
OT: Guess what they're saying in Utah this post-season?

"S@it! It's Phil Jackson and Michael Jordan all over again." :D

erichubert
05-10-2008, 01:40 PM
MJ.

Because he played with Bugs Bunny.* ;D

And he proved that he can take any bunch of Loonies off the street and still win very important games all by himself in the end.* And I'm talking about :

Migraine Pippen
Drag Queen Rodman
Surfboard Longley
Invisi-Bill Cartwright
and other fringe players getting a second chance and winning big time.

;D




They are not as bad as Jordan fanatics want to believe they are. His supporting casts were good, he had 3 all stars in his first 3 peat team (Horace Grant, BJ Armstrong and Scottie Pippen) and he had Pippen, Kukoc and Rodman in the second 3 peat team. One thing you could say for Jordan though is that he elevated the games of his teammates but they are not that horrific.

MonL
05-10-2008, 02:58 PM
^Yup. Just messing a bit. ;D

When the team's acknowkedged superstar talked everyone listened. If his teammates became slouches inside the court Jordan'd be the first to run them out of town. Eccentricities by these players outside the court were tolerated as long as they fit in the system and produced.

For marginal/problematic players that became key pieces in the Bulls teams then, the list goes on: Jud Buechler, Randy Brown,* Bill Wennington, Bobby Hansen, Jack Haley, Dennis Hopson, Craig Hodges, Pete Myers, Will Perdue.

Some unfortunately didnt fit in, such as Stacey King and former Rockets #3 pick Rodney McCray, whose confidence was utterly destroyed by MJ.

The_Big_Cat
05-10-2008, 03:37 PM
Michael Jordan had few good reliable and role big men in those separate three-peats.
Cllif Levingston, Stacey King and Scott Williams in the first.
Jason Caffey, Dicky Simpkins, Jack Haley and Brian Willliams on the second.

MonL
05-10-2008, 03:49 PM
Michael Jordan had few good reliable and role big men in those separate three-peats.
Cllif Levingston, Stacey King and Scott Williams in the first.
Jason Caffey, Dicky Simpkins, Jack Haley and Brian Willliams on the second.


If you added horns to his head, Brian Williams, a.k.a. Bison Dele (M.I.A) would have been the Chicago Bulls logo personified. But I am OT already. ;D

The_Big_Cat
05-10-2008, 03:54 PM
If you added horns to his head, Brian Williams, a.k.a. Bison Dele (M.I.A) would have been the Chicago Bulls logo personified. But I am OT already. ;D

Yes. Brian Williams was a tough ombre. A left-handed 6'10" power forward. He almost got into a fight with Karl Malone in that 1997 Finals with Malone walking away. He was a mid-season acquisition back then and it help Michael Jordan secured his 5th ring.

marmand
05-10-2008, 09:12 PM
I think He ( Brian Williams ) was killed and was found in a boat. ( am not sure about the details ) Sayang, He was really good when he was in Denver.

bchoter
05-14-2008, 07:08 PM
everybody forgets ...
michael never got to faced off in a series with a in-his-peak post player like olajuwon (possibly 5th or 6th best center ever peaked at 94 and 95) and shaq (4th best peaked at 2000).


Karl Malone? Shawn Kemp? Altho they were more mobile and werent strictly limited to the post, both of them were above-average operators at the low post.

Teka, dark_seid, what is the relevance of this to the discussion?
Most players look like they're over the hill when they face Jordan

dark_seid
05-18-2008, 08:49 PM
everybody forgets ...
michael never got to faced off in a series with a in-his-peak post player like olajuwon (possibly 5th or 6th best center ever peaked at 94 and 95) and shaq (4th best peaked at 2000).


Karl Malone? Shawn Kemp? Altho they were more mobile and werent strictly limited to the post, both of them were above-average operators at the low post.

Teka, dark_seid, what is the relevance of this to the discussion?


oh, i was just saying that it wasn't a given in 1994 and 1995 that michael could have won over hakeem. a previous post was speculating on the bulls possibly matching the celts 8 straight championships. or even breaking it.



With the death of his father, Yes his game would have been off. However, its interesting to just think of the possibility of the record of the Celtics ( most consecutive titles ) being matched by MJ and the Bulls. It could have also force him to play the 1999 season just to try to break the record. Oh, well. too much ifs for this thought but interesting indeed.


but again we are digressing from the discussion.

Kid Cubao
06-13-2008, 01:25 PM
kobe or MJ? funny how the game 4 meltdown totally transformed an otherwise healthy, valid start-off topic for barroom discussions into a totally rhetorical question.

joelex
06-13-2008, 02:16 PM
kobe or MJ? funny how the game 4 meltdown totally transformed an otherwise healthy, valid start-off topic for barroom discussions into a totally rhetorical question.


:D

dark_seid
06-13-2008, 11:10 PM
^ couldn't believed that we were having this conversation in the first place to begin with :)

Raging Blue
06-14-2008, 01:28 AM
Amidst all these brouhaha on comparisons with Kobe, His Airness has remained silent, with this debate issue the least of his concern.

I guess he is more preoccupied with strategizing who to pick for the Charlotte Bobcats in the upcoming NBA draft to be held after the Finals, and maybe on even how to improve his handicap on the golf course (that is if he has one ;D).

tigerman
06-15-2008, 05:56 PM
Kobe's the closest thing to MJ but still MJ > Kobe.

Larry Bird on Michael Jordan, "It's just God disguised as Michael Jordan."* :D



USTE LO MEJOR!
VIVA SANTO TOMAS!

bluetruck
06-16-2008, 08:14 PM
unless the lakers win the last 2 games, then kobe will just be a mj wannabee.

bluebruiser90
06-18-2008, 07:53 AM
An excerpt from Bill Simmon's article "Can Celtics answer the call at closing time" : (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/080617)


............'THE KRYPTONITE AWARD FOR "MOST SIMPLE WAY TO FOIL SOMEONE WHO IS ALLEGEDLY SUPERMAN"

Boy, Kobe sure seems to have trouble scoring on these Shane Battier/Paul Pierce types, doesn't he? If someone's a little bigger than him, stays between him and the basket and has the reach to contest his jumper, and if that person is flanked by smart defenders who remain aware of what Kobe is doing at all times, it sure seems Kobe has trouble getting the shots he likes. Not to belabor the point because it's a moot discussion at this point, but MJ didn't have a "kryptonite" flaw. He just didn't. Of everyone from the '90s, John Starks probably defended him the best ... and it's not like Starks was shutting him down or anything. He just made MJ work a little harder for the points he was getting anyway. The point is, Jordan did whatever he wanted during a much more physical era, and when he faced great defensive teams -- like the '89 and '90 Pistons or the '93 Knicks -- nobody ever shackled him or knocked him into a scoring funk. Kobe? He looks a little lost offensively against the Celtics. It's true. Same for the 2004 Finals against Tayshaun Prince, another lanky defensive player with a good reach. Just remember to mention this on his NBA tombstone some day.'

bigfreeze_bibby
06-18-2008, 01:55 PM
Michael Jordan is still miles away in advantage to KB24. Pero may tip na lang ako kay Kobe hehe. I have noticed that he doesn't have a low post fadeaway shot. Kung meron man, he seldom uses it. If he can maximize this move in the future, I think he'll be closer to MJ.

When MJ got older in the mid-90's, he developed an effective low post game to serve as another option in the triangle. Tingin ko, eto pa kulang kay Kobe and in this finals series against Boston, he was reduced to a perimeter player and unfortunately, he cannot blow buy his opponents due to his problems as said in the espn.com article written by Bill Simmons.

erichubert
06-18-2008, 02:39 PM
I think it is pretty obvious that MJ would forever be the yardstick that the next generation of players need to measure up to, I don't think anyone would come close for a lot of reasons. Kobe's downfall would be the constant comparison to him, I mean he didn't ask for this, but their games are so similar plus his relationship with Phil that he can't help being compared to him.

john_paul_manahan
06-18-2008, 03:03 PM
i think kobe does not want to be even compared to mj himself. it's just the media types hyping it up.

one has to give credit to the celtics' d for what they did.

erichubert
06-18-2008, 03:09 PM
He has said it time and again that he doesn't want to hear the MJ comparisons, I guess he knows his achievements would hardly stand up to MJ's. The media just has this next MJ fetish, I think they wouldn't stop until they can say that they discovered the next MJ.

pio_valenz
06-18-2008, 03:39 PM
Please lock this thread. It's become irrelevant.

joelex
06-18-2008, 11:51 PM
Or change KOBE to LEBRON.

At 23, LBJ has more or less conquered the league already. I dont see anyone ranking higher than him as far as dominance in the game is concerned.

joelex
06-19-2008, 12:04 AM
The game seemed so easy for MJ. He would score 30 without breaking a sweat. He picks his spots carefully and takes what the defense gives him. He is just too talented he can do just about anything that frustrates the defense.

Kobe forces majority of his shots. Sometimes he also coasts too much in stretches, such as game 1 of this finals, in the first half he wasnt aggressive and settled for jumpers. When he suddenly decides to turn it up, you will see a lot of the said bad attempts. Kahit kanina during game 6, he was shooting too many long distance shots with a hand on his face. He looks so tired playing.

Jeep
06-19-2008, 12:20 PM
Larry Bird on Michael Jordan, "It's just God disguised as Michael Jordan."* :D


and my brother, on some US blog, said of larry bird after seeing him at the wake of the late, great red auerbach some years ago: the basketball jesus himself.

little did he know that someone else nicknamed jesus would also don celtic pride and tie the record for the most number of treys made in a finals game -- although that movie starring denzel washington had been around since 1998.

Howard the Duck
06-24-2008, 01:36 PM
pwedeng kobe vs. scottie na lang :P

coreytaylor
06-24-2008, 03:48 PM
Shaq takes a freestyle swipe at Kobe
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news

NEW YORK (AP)—Just in case anybody had forgotten that Kobe Bryant has never won an NBA title without Shaquille O’Neal, the big man sent out a reminder.

The Phoenix Suns center can be seen rapping that “Kobe couldn’t do without me” in a video posted online at celebrity news and gossip site TMZ.com

During the two-minute video, a grinning O’Neal lurches through an improvised rap in which he skewers the Lakers’ star, with whom he won three straight NBA titles from 2000-2002 while with Los Angeles.

“I was freestyling. That’s all. It was all done in fun. Nothing serious whatsoever,” O’Neal told ESPN.com Monday. “That is what MC’s do. They freestyle when called upon. I’m totally cool with Kobe. No issue at all.”

O’Neal and Bryant last played together in 2004. After a long-simmering feud came to a boil in public, O’Neal was traded to Miami before the 2004-05 season, and won an NBA championship with the Heat in 2006.

Bryant and the Lakers didn’t reach the finals again until earlier this month, when the Boston Celtics beat them 4-2.

“You know how I be,” Shaq rapped. “Last week Kobe couldn’t do without me.”

O’Neal, who has recorded seven albums, also said he is “the difference between first and last place” and even took a jab at former New York Knicks center Patrick Ewing’s lack of championship rings.

;D ;D ;D

stonecold316
06-24-2008, 06:33 PM
Ang tanong eh kung wala rin ba si Kobe sa team, kaya ni Shaq na bigyan ng title ang LA?
Nung nasa Miami rin siya, halos si Dwayne Wade ang gumagawa for the team eh.

Ganito na lang, Shaq will not win an NBA title without a legit partner that can help him in the scoring department. Kung hindi rin excellent ang bench players ng LA (2000, 2001, 2002) at ng Miami (2006) hindi mananalo ng NBA titles si Shaq.

Look at the Celtics, with only Pierce scoring kulelat ang Boston. Pero nung pagdating ni Garnett at Allen, and the addition of veteran players Casell and Brown, tumatag ang Boston at nanalo ng NBA crown.

Kahit si MJ nung time niya sa Chicago, kung wala si Pippen at Rodman hirap rin siya na dalin ang Bulls sa Finals.

Basketball is not called a team sport for nothing kung isang player lang iiskor palagi. Dapat lima ang mag-click in order to win.

stonecold316

bchoter
06-24-2008, 06:52 PM
^ Of course that argument applies to ALL. Ganito nalang. Who between the big aristotle and the big ego would have had a bigger chance at winning the title minus the other?

Only a true Kobe fanatic will say he would have had a better chance at a title run over the still in-shape Shaq.

Kid Cubao
06-25-2008, 09:31 AM
tama si bchoter. ang sa akin nga, kahit sino iparis mong segunda kay shaq, lalo na nung kalakasan nya, kayang pag-tsampyonin. shaq and iverson, shaq and grant hill, shaq and dwyane wade (which came to pass in 2006), shaq and lebron, shaq and melo--lahat yan pwedeng-pwede. pero alisin mo si shaq dyan, malabong-malabo.

stonecold316
06-25-2008, 12:50 PM
Again, kung wala rin katulong si Shaq mahihirapan siyang manalo ng championship. Hirap kay Shaq may pagkamayabang din kasi. Sana tantanan na niya si Kobe kasi nagmumukha siya ogag sa ginagawa niya.

Kaunting panahon na lang at siguradong mananalo na ng NBA title ang Lakers. Kapag nangyari yun, I'm sure tatahimik na si Shaq.

I'm not a Kobe fanatic pero bumilib ako sa kanya dahil sa work ethic niya at commitment niya na magbago personally at professionally as a player.

stonecold316

bchoter
06-25-2008, 01:14 PM
^ Pare sabi ko nga the "hindi mananalo kung walang katulong" argument applies to ALL.

To make it simple, who will have a greater chance at winning a championship during LA's 3-ring run:
1. Shaq without Kobe
2. Kobe without Shaq

Or maiba naman. During Laker's 3-peat:
1. Shaq > Kobe
2. Kobe > Shaq

'1' for me on both counts.

Sa ego naman, Shaq showed he can coexist and even subjugate his game to another star who, in his pov, was more critical in winning a championship (Wade). Result? NBA '06. They may not have won it all in Phoenix but, obviously, he knows his place in the team. Kobe, on the other hand, demanded a trade if the Lakers did not make an upgrade. Just shows his respect, or the lack of it, towards his teammates and his coach. Of course everything changed when they started winning (it has always been the elixir for lack of harmony in a team).

Disclaimer lang ha. I'm neither a fan of Kobe or Shaq.

coreytaylor
06-25-2008, 02:51 PM
Shaq gets slapped by sheriff for rap about Bryant
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news

PHOENIX (AP)—Shaquille O’Neal will lose his special deputy’s badge in Maricopa County because of language he used in a rap video that mocks former teammate Kobe Bryant.

Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio said the Phoenix Suns center’s use of a racially derogatory word and other foul language left him no choice. Arpaio made Shaq a special deputy in 2006 and promoted him to colonel of his largely ceremonial posse later that year.

“I want his two badges back,” Arpaio told The Associated Press on Tuesday. “Because if any one of my deputies did something like this, they’re fired. I don’t condone this type of racial conduct.”

Shaq was seen in a video posted on the celebrity news and gossip Web site TMZ.com rapping that “Kobe couldn’t do without me.” O’Neal skewers the Lakers’ star, with whom he won three straight NBA titles from 2000-2002 while with Los Angeles, for not being able to win a championship without him.

“I was freestyling. That’s all. It was all done in fun. Nothing serious whatsoever,” O’Neal told ESPN.com Monday. A call to the Suns on Tuesday seeking comment from O’Neal was referred to his public relations firm, which didn’t immediately respond.

Arpaio, who describes himself as “America’s Toughest Sheriff” and is best known for feeding jail inmates green bologna, clothing them in pink underwear, and making them work on chain gangs, said he didn’t expect his actions would teach Shaq a lesson. But he hoped he learns that as a role model who wants to someday be a full-time sheriff, he needs to know his words matter.

“Maybe I’m old fashioned, but I don’t think that either conduct should be out there publicly, even if media wasn’t there,” Arpaio said.

O’Neal previously served as a reserve officer with the Miami Beach Police Department while playing for the Miami Heat. He also volunteered with the Tempe Police Department after being traded to the Suns in February.

stonecold316
06-25-2008, 05:16 PM
^ Pare sabi ko nga the "hindi mananalo kung walang katulong" argument applies to ALL.

To make it simple, who will have a greater chance at winning a championship during LA's 3-ring run:
1. Shaq without Kobe
2. Kobe without Shaq

Or maiba naman. During Laker's 3-peat:
1. Shaq > Kobe
2. Kobe > Shaq

'1' for me on both counts.

Sa ego naman, Shaq showed he can coexist and even subjugate his game to another star who, in his pov, was more critical in winning a championship (Wade). Result? NBA '06. They may not have won it all in Phoenix but, obviously, he knows his place in the team. Kobe, on the other hand, demanded a trade if the Lakers did not make an upgrade. Just shows his respect, or the lack of it, towards his teammates and his coach. Of course everything changed when they started winning (it has always been the elixir for lack of harmony in a team).

Disclaimer lang ha. I'm neither a fan of Kobe or Shaq.


Point taken manong.

stonecold316

batangueño
06-25-2008, 09:12 PM
Kobe Bryant vs Michael Jordan? Come on! Michael Jordan is INCOMPARABLE! No one has yet to lay claim on the impact that "His Airness" had brought to basketball. ;)

pepman
08-01-2008, 08:31 PM
Michael Jordan

the_blast_master
08-02-2008, 01:41 AM
NBA analyst Rick Kamla lays it down!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_uguiZz1TQ

We can talk about this forever, but everyone knows the answer.

No one else comes close.

Jomar09
08-03-2008, 10:44 AM
MJ or Kobe?

I think it would be unfair to compare them...
they're after all two different individuals who has a right to play basketball the way they want to...and free from any 3rd person judgements...they are two people who lived in two different periods..kobe still has at least 5, or more, productive years in the NBA..He still has time to prove himself...On the other hand, MJ is already retired and could no longer show his stuff in the league..Now, isn't that unfair???

But for arguement's sake, I think it would be logical to compare them when Kobe retires.. :)

Well, like my previos posts, it's just a thought...

A-boy97
08-07-2008, 12:48 AM
MJ made basketball boring... beacuse you already knew who was going to win.

And for a country known to be "dehadista", no one dared to bet against MJ.(At least the people I know).

As for Kobe, he's a great player, without a doubt, but did he make basketball boring... nope!

'Cause MJ is just that good, he killed the competition during his prime! ;D

OT: Tagal na ngang retire ni MJ, ang mahal mahal pa rin ng sapatos niya! >:( ....sakit tuloy sa bulsa ;D

Bottomline; Michael Jordan is, was, and will be the best player in basketball!

King_stag
08-07-2008, 03:19 PM
Mj or Kobe? how 'bout a self-proclaimed star who told that he is better than kobe ;D
not even close pal! ;D

jpmalpas
10-11-2008, 01:21 PM
MJ.

OT: LeBron James. 8)

munkybear
02-16-2009, 02:18 PM
MJ

he left the NBA after winning his third title because the game became too easy for him and came back to win 3 more just when other teams thought it was safe to build their own dynasty. He also returned to play for washington and STILL averaged 20+ points* per game at 40 years old, some players never get to average 20 points their entire career.*

Dark Knight
02-16-2009, 05:38 PM
Between the 2, its MJ hands down.

But theres one player that will top MJ IMO.

Dr. J ;)

mighty_lion
02-16-2009, 07:18 PM
They say the hardest part to replicate of MJ's game and personality is his competitiveness. Lets take out the championship rings and career milestones in the equation and ask those who witnessed MJ in his prime and Kobe to date: last 2 minutes and your team down by ten, who would you rather have?

aircanda
02-16-2009, 08:13 PM
^
of course MJ. No one else comes close, not even Kobe or LBJ. Pero if in the same scenario and MJ was defended and Kobe was given the ball. I would still think he will do good. We all gotta need to respect this guy. Maraming mga kaibigan ko pa ren ang inis dito kay Kobe, pero gaya nga ng sabe nia sa commercial niya.

"You hate that I’m loved, for the exact same reasons.”

tigerman
02-17-2009, 09:11 AM
ask those who witnessed MJ in his prime and Kobe to date: last 2 minutes and your team down by ten, who would you rather have?


If the team needs a three, I'll go with Kobe. Otherwise, MJ all the way.

There's only one clear advantage of Kobe over Mike - 3-point shooting.



USTE LO MEJOR!
VIVA SANTO TOMAS!

mighty_lion
02-17-2009, 09:47 AM
Wala lang akong oras ngayon but later I will try to find time to create a comparison of the prime names of late 80s to 90's and late 90's to 2000+.

Trivia lang: MJ's stats in his rookie season

28.2 ppg / 5.9 apg / 6.5 rpg / 2.4 spg / 0.8 bpg / 51.5% FG%

joelex
02-17-2009, 01:19 PM
MJ was the heir to Bird / Magic, but he was differently good that he has changed how the game was played and has given the basketball audience a whole new level of play to look into.

Kobe emerged as sole survivor of all the next MJ's, and rightfully deserves so. But despite the talent of Kobe, he hasn't changed the game and is a mere 2k version of Jordan. Some may argue he is a better version, some may say he is a poor man's Jordan, but that is beside the point. His style is all Jordanesque.

Meanwhile, like MJ has after Bird and Magic's reign, Lebron has given us a look into what humankind is capable of. At 6-8 and 250lbs, he has a combination of size and speed that just terrorizes any kind of defense. Being able to bang bodies against big men and run with the guards, LBJ has created a template we have yet to see. He transcends through stereotypes and at 24 yrs old, is hell bent on being the next most important athlete in the whole planet.

tigerman
02-17-2009, 09:30 PM
^ I agree on everything but until LeBron learns to shoot jumpshots, he won't reach his full potential.



USTE LO MEJOR!
VIVA SANTO TOMAS!

durden_tyler
02-18-2009, 12:24 PM
MJ. No contest.

john_paul_manahan
02-21-2009, 06:28 AM
Lebron has given us a look into what humankind is capable of. At 6-8 and 250lbs, he has a combination of size and speed that just terrorizes any kind of defense. Being able to bang bodies against big men and run with the guards, LBJ has created a template we have yet to see. He transcends through stereotypes and at 24 yrs old, is hell bent on being the next most important athlete in the whole planet.


Again, we do not know what is Lebron's true ceiling is....

tigerman
02-21-2009, 10:30 AM
^ As well as his age. ;D



USTE LO MEJOR!
VIVA SANTO TOMAS!

studentathlete
04-10-2009, 07:07 PM
MJ for me.

john_paul_manahan
04-17-2009, 04:03 PM
bill simmons on kobe


4. Kobe Bryant
Another world-class season from someone who officially has to be regarded as (a) the most durable guard ever; and (b) one of the best 15 players ever. He has never been in a better position historically: Blessed with the best team in the West hands down, if he outduels LeBron in the Finals, that will push him ahead of Oscar Robertson and Jerry West as the third greatest guard ever. These are the stakes. Either way, it's a make-or-break spring because Kobe passes 1,200 total games next season and can't possibly remain at this level much longer. I put Wade ahead of him only because Wade could have emulated Kobe's success with the Lakers, but 2009 Kobe couldn't have carried a brutal Miami team to a No. 5 seed. 2006 Kobe could have done it; not 2009 Kobe.

atenean_blooded
05-28-2009, 05:52 PM
I pick Jordan, who could shoot and score from almost any range, who was also a monster on defense, and who played well practically every single time, without the need for drama or some emotional thing to motivate him. Oh, we can measure the results in the number of wins and championship rings.

Someone pointed out that Jordan changed the game, and that's true. Kobe's playing a game that was changed by Jordan, who brought competition to such a high level. Until Kobe changes the game the way Jordan does, the comparison really just ends up in Jordan's favor.

Of course, I don't know. Maybe the lakers will go on a championship winning streak or something. Maybe we can revisit the comparison then.



OT:

On Lebron James: He's versatile, he's fast, he can shoot inside and outside. Give him a few more years to wisen up, he'll probably be unstoppable.

dream2babedan
06-08-2009, 05:08 PM
it's gonna be Michael Jordan for me. Nothing beats the original Michael Jordan!!! ;D

bluewing
07-24-2009, 07:02 PM
eto lang yan...

nung nag-retire si jordan after the second three-peat, nagkarambola ng rosters ang buong NBA. bakit? naramdaman nung ibang mga team na sa wakas, baka pwede na silang mag-champion.

pepman
07-24-2009, 09:38 PM
Michael Jordan! GOAT.

joelex
07-25-2009, 12:03 AM
MJ for a lot of reasons, but none more significant than him being able to play in an era where there was still no hand check and more contact was allowed. Watch clips of him during the 90's and you would see how much MJ has in his bag given any kind of defense thrown at him.

Hard to explain why, but I wasnt really impressed with Kobe's 81 pt game. It was really a dull game with lots of easy points, totally non existent Raptor D, and way too many fouls called.

Despite all this, Kobe still is the closest to MJ. But Lebron I think has more in store and has what it takes to take basketball by storm and change how the game is played the same way MJ did.

cobaltinee
10-02-2009, 02:45 PM
When it comes to attitude and clutch, I am rooting or MJ or Michael Jordan. He is always confidence with or without leit center in the team. I am proud of him. :)