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View Full Version : Lasalista Coaches' Battle: Talk N Text o Ginebra?



flsfnoeraekadad
01-25-2007, 05:26 PM
Kung sa BEN, Ateneo players ang magkakalaban, dito sa Archers' Range coaches ang magkalaban!

Kanino kayo? Ang tanong... Jong o Derek? Nakauna na si Jong at ang Ginebra kahapon! ;D

5FootCarrot
01-25-2007, 05:37 PM
Kay Jong ako kasi anak niya Atenista ;D

I'd be interested to know how the two teams stack up against each other though :) This round (and the finals!) should be an interesting one.

flsfnoeraekadad
01-25-2007, 05:39 PM
Kay Jong ako kasi anak niya Atenista ;D

I'd be interested to know how the two teams stack up against each other though :) This round (and the finals!) should be an interesting one.
Siguradong Ateneo-La Salle of sorts ang Finals ng PBA Philippine Cup, lalo na kapag TnT ang pumasok, sure thing yun.

Pero gah, gusto ko manalo Ginebra! GINEBRA ANG HARI! Hehehe!

brian
01-26-2007, 12:17 AM
although kabatchmate at kaklase ko si jong, kay derek ako kasi anak ni jong atenista eh haha!.. joke lang carrot ;D..and believe me when i say jong does get his share re this from us batchmates...

but seriously, i've been rooting for talk and text ever since they've acquired macmac, renren and dondon este don allado...however, i wouldn't mind ginebra winning too...a win win situation if i may say..

fls,
come to think of it, yeng guiao ( whose players are mostly from ateneo) is also an alumnus of lsgh, while tnt owner mvp (whose players are mostly from la salle) and coach chot (boss niya si danding is from la salle) are the protagonists from ateneo..

uhmmm really interesting.. let's all get ready for an epic battle, go alaska he he!

uy ayan, 33.3% na si derek sa botohan. ;)

bigfreeze_bibby
01-26-2007, 08:28 AM
I'll root for TNT because of the DLSU triumverate of Renren, Macmac, and Don. Pero oks lang din sa kin if Ginebra will win this series but honestly, if the Gin Kings play that type of game that they've shown last Wednesday, patay ang TNT dyan. They just can't match with the speed and intensity na pinakita ng Ginebra nung game 1. Or puede din na naging overconfident ang TNT because they thought that they can handle BGK's frontline that easily without the Major Pain manning the middle.

cricohermoso
01-26-2007, 08:51 AM
Ginebra, kahit si Jong or si Siot o si Jawo ang kots. :D

Bennie Bangag
01-26-2007, 03:04 PM
TNT ako, simply because i am a fan of manong's system, period.

flsfnoeraekadad
01-26-2007, 07:04 PM
Nakaisa na din si Derek - courtesy of Mac's three from a dime from Jimmy A. Heartbreaking pero congrats sa TnT. Pare-pareho naman tayong Lasalista kaya dapat proud tayo sa achievements ng kapwa Lasalista. ;D

bigfreeze_bibby
01-29-2007, 07:42 AM
Ganda ng laro ni Renren and Macmac kagabi. Renren waxed hot in the 2nd quarter while Macmac turned on his jets for the 3rd quarter. Both players were critical as they negated Ginebra's explosive backcourt duo of Helterbrand and Caguioa.

flsfnoeraekadad
01-29-2007, 10:15 AM
Ok pa din kahit matalo ang Gins. La Salle connection naman ang bumira sa kanila eh. Bawi na lang sana Ginebra sa 4th game. ;D

shyboy
01-29-2007, 09:49 PM
Ako maka-Ginebra but in this case, I want Talk N'Text to move on to the Finals and, hopefully, win the championship. Masyadong umaangas na yang mga nasa Red Bull, dinagdag pa nila si Membrere.

Is Don Allado injured? I haven't seen him lately in TNT's games.

brian
01-29-2007, 10:45 PM
Ako maka-Ginebra but in this case, I want Talk N'Text to move on to the Finals and, hopefully, win the championship.* Masyadong umaangas na yang mga nasa Red Bull, dinagdag pa nila si Membrere.

Is Don Allado injured? I haven't seen him lately in TNT's games.


yup, he's got a broken hand.....he's been on the bench in civies, his hand heavily bandaged, this is the main reason why tnt acquired yancy (who's been playing quite well ) through a trade with fedex in order to fill-in allado's position.

flsfnoeraekadad
01-29-2007, 11:11 PM
FedEx/Air21 = training pool ng PBA. Kumbaga parang farm. ;D

bigfreeze_bibby
01-30-2007, 07:12 AM
This is just my opinion guys but we may give Bugia, Membrere, and Fonacier the break on involving them on the "Enrico" syndrome of physical play. In fairness to those guys, matitino naman sila maglaro, si Enrico lang talaga loko-loko sa kanila. Pati si Sharma sumusunod na rin sa yapak ni Enrico. Idol niya ata yun eh.

Going to Air21, tingin ko dapat bigyan sila ng investigation why they are always involved in the lopsided trades among sister teams. Ang dali nilang kumagat sa mga trade offers na kumbaga e middle entity lang naman sila. Maybe for business need perhaps but I am not so sure about the other "hidden" interests involved in it.

nel
01-30-2007, 07:35 AM
Air21 has a funny way of managing their team and their talents. They have a track record of trading away good players like Renren, Macmac, Wesley, and de Ocampo. The team owner also forces his coach to field all players in a game, which makes it difficult to develop a regular rotation. To add to the complexity, their starting point guard, Arboleda, is the son-in-law of one of the team bigwigs. The top coaches like Joe Lipa and Derek Pumaren didn't last under this environment. After Air21 traded Renren to T&T, I remember reading somewhere that a team executive said that they would build the team around Canaleta. Canaleta certainly is talented, but to make him the franchise player??? It's starting to look like they're more of a recruiting agency for other teams. It's a good thing that the business side of Air21 isn't run like its basketball team.

MonL
01-30-2007, 07:42 AM
It's starting to look like they're more of a recruiting agency for other teams. It's a good thing that the business side of Air21 isn't run like its basketball team.


On the contrary, they deliver, alright.... :P

GreenArrows
01-30-2007, 10:56 AM
Air21 has a funny way of managing their team and their talents. They have a track record of trading away good players like Renren, Macmac, Wesley, and de Ocampo. The team owner also forces his coach to field all players in a game, which makes it difficult to develop a regular rotation. To add to the complexity, their starting point guard, Arboleda, is the son-in-law of one of the team bigwigs. The top coaches like Joe Lipa and Derek Pumaren didn't last under this environment. After Air21 traded Renren to T&T, I remember reading somewhere that a team executive said that they would build the team around Canaleta. Canaleta certainly is talented, but to make him the franchise player???

I would rather build a team around Arwind Santos rather than Canaleta. Or are they focusing on Canaleta because Arwind is 'destined' to leave after his first year with Air 21?

bigfreeze_bibby
01-30-2007, 01:12 PM
It's starting to look like they're more of a recruiting agency for other teams. It's a good thing that the business side of Air21 isn't run like its basketball team.


On the contrary, they deliver, alright.... :P


Hehehe. Taga-deliver ng star players sa ibang teams para lumakas sila hehehe. Anyways, sana wala nang upcoming revamp sa core ng Air 21 since they already have KG, Arwind, and Gary David. These guys can deliver for them. Going back to the topic, it will be a pivotal game tomorrow for both Ginebra and TNT. Will Renren still explode like the way he did it in game 3? I still think that Macmac can deliver the goods since mas madami siyang type of shots as compared to Renren who lives mostly in the perimeter.

nel
01-30-2007, 01:32 PM
Air21 has a funny way of managing their team and their talents. They have a track record of trading away good players like Renren, Macmac, Wesley, and de Ocampo. The team owner also forces his coach to field all players in a game, which makes it difficult to develop a regular rotation. To add to the complexity, their starting point guard, Arboleda, is the son-in-law of one of the team bigwigs. The top coaches like Joe Lipa and Derek Pumaren didn't last under this environment. After Air21 traded Renren to T&T, I remember reading somewhere that a team executive said that they would build the team around Canaleta. Canaleta certainly is talented, but to make him the franchise player???

I would rather build a team around Arwind Santos rather than Canaleta.* Or are they focusing on Canaleta because Arwind is 'destined' to leave after his first year with Air 21?


Baka parang condominium yan - na "pre-sell" na ba si Arwind? I agree, Air21 can build around Arwind's all-around excellence, and Air21 management would be nuts to let him go. But they traded away Renren and Macmac, traded for Yancy promptly shipped him back to T&T, so who knows what they're thinking of?

Back to the game tomorrow, Renren is starting to create for himself also, instead of just being the spot shooter he used to be. If he ever gets to hone his slashing skills, talk about a double-threat. Whenever he's on the court, Renren will always pose a threat. I remember one UAAP game where he couldn't hit his shot for 3 quarters, but kept shooting, then exploded in the 4th.

The Macmac-Caguioa matchup, which could be dubbed the "war of the Marks", is going to be interesting, with the media playing up the head-to-head comparisons. Both have 3-point range, both can penetrate off the dribble, and both are capable of spectacular plays on occasion. It will be interesting to see how that budding rivalry shapes up in this series.

bigfreeze_bibby
01-30-2007, 02:33 PM
Back to the game tomorrow, Renren is starting to create for himself also, instead of just being the spot shooter he used to be. If he ever gets to hone his slashing skills, talk about a double-threat. Whenever he's on the court, Renren will always pose a threat. I remember one UAAP game where he couldn't hit his shot for 3 quarters, but kept shooting, then exploded in the 4th.

The Macmac-Caguioa matchup, which could be dubbed the "war of the Marks", is going to be interesting, with the media playing up the head-to-head comparisons. Both have 3-point range, both can penetrate off the dribble, and both are capable of spectacular plays on occasion. It will be interesting to see how that budding rivalry shapes up in this series.


Renren should also have plays na mala-Rip Hamilton sa Pistons, double screens na instead of shooting the three, within the perimeter lang to shoot the two point J. Sana nga magkaroon pa siya ng dribble penetration skills but for now, off the dribble pull up J will do for him.

Maganda match up nung dalawang Marks kasi parehas maangas and may pride in their game. Mas may poise nga lang si Caguioa because of his Fil-Am moves, the way he speaks and body gestures unlike Macmac na normal Pinoy angas.

_weheh_
01-30-2007, 05:51 PM
^ i-dagdag mo pa si ronald tubid. isa din yun sa magagaling na players of air21 pero hinayaan lang nilang mapunta sa ginebra.

brian
01-30-2007, 06:34 PM
Air21 has a funny way of managing their team and their talents. They have a track record of trading away good players like Renren, Macmac, Wesley, and de Ocampo. The team owner also forces his coach to field all players in a game, which makes it difficult to develop a regular rotation. To add to the complexity, their starting point guard, Arboleda, is the son-in-law of one of the team bigwigs. The top coaches like Joe Lipa and Derek Pumaren didn't last under this environment. After Air21 traded Renren to T&T, I remember reading somewhere that a team executive said that they would build the team around Canaleta. Canaleta certainly is talented, but to make him the franchise player???

I would rather build a team around Arwind Santos rather than Canaleta.* Or are they focusing on Canaleta because Arwind is 'destined' to leave after his first year with Air 21?


Baka parang condominium yan - na "pre-sell" na ba si Arwind? I agree, Air21 can build around Arwind's all-around excellence, and Air21 management would be nuts to let him go. But they traded away Renren and Macmac, traded for Yancy promptly shipped him back to T&T, so who knows what they're thinking of?

Back to the game tomorrow, Renren is starting to create for himself also, instead of just being the spot shooter he used to be. If he ever gets to hone his slashing skills, talk about a double-threat. Whenever he's on the court, Renren will always pose a threat. I remember one UAAP game where he couldn't hit his shot for 3 quarters, but kept shooting, then exploded in the 4th.

The Macmac-Caguioa matchup, which could be dubbed the "war of the Marks", is going to be interesting, with the media playing up the head-to-head comparisons. Both have 3-point range, both can penetrate off the dribble, and both are capable of spectacular plays on occasion. It will be interesting to see how that budding rivalry shapes up in this series.


kalimutan mo pa ang patented "teardrop" shot ng dalawa hehe!

nel
01-30-2007, 06:41 PM
Oo nga pala, how could I forget?

BTW, how do you guys see the battle of wits and strategies between Derek and Jong? Obviously Derek has a leg up because they're ahead in the series.

T&T has a huge frontline, and Ginebra is a bit smaller with Menk out for the series. Ginebra is a faster team, and if they can sustain their running game like in game 1, T&T has difficulty matching their pace. The back court battles are more or less evenly matched. So what are they doing right, and what's not working so well for both coaches? Weaknesses each can exploit?

joelex
01-30-2007, 07:34 PM
To add to the complexity, their starting point guard, Arboleda, is the son-in-law of one of the team bigwigs.

in fairness to him, he has really proven to be a steady PG and is really an underrated player in the league. :)

brian
01-30-2007, 11:30 PM
Oo nga pala, how could I forget?

BTW, how do you guys see the battle of wits and strategies between Derek and Jong? Obviously Derek has a leg up because they're ahead in the series.

T&T has a huge frontline, and Ginebra is a bit smaller with Menk out for the series. Ginebra is a faster team, and if they can sustain their running game like in game 1, T&T has difficulty matching their pace. The back court battles are more or less evenly matched. So what are they doing right, and what's not working so well for both coaches? Weaknesses each can exploit?


i think tnt should at least shoot fairly to minimize ginebra's running game...they ususally start off their break coming from a missed hot, and usually, tnt just couldn't set up their defense....

but if tnt shoots well, then there is a chance that both teams should battle it out on half-court sets...

pero magaling din si jong sa half-court..malamang execution na lang ang laban dito

brian
01-30-2007, 11:36 PM
To add to the complexity, their starting point guard, Arboleda, is the son-in-law of one of the team bigwigs.

in fairness to him, he has really proven to be a steady PG and is really an underrated player in the league.* :)






i agree, he even led the league in assists and steals at some certain point..

flsfnoeraekadad
01-30-2007, 11:44 PM
And Wynne's not called "The Snatcher" for nothing.

Medyo mabaho yung monicker pero pwede na din yan, at least he gets some recognition in what department he does well.

Now let's get back to the topic. Sino bet nyo para sa Game 4? Jong o Derek?

joelex
01-31-2007, 01:27 AM
It is hard to stop ginebra when the game gets fast and helter skelter. They have the best fastbreak finishers in the PBA right now in Caguioa and helterbrand plus the recent addition of energetic tubid. In a halfcourt game they cant really execute that well, mostly relying on caguioa / helterbrtand isolations and pick n rolls, but thats about it. Jong is a great halfcourt tactician but with his crew, there arent much materials to work on unlike in his SMB days with Danny I manning the post. They dont have much of a post game especially with the loss of menk and adducul.

A big plus for Ginebra if their supporting players step up, especially Tubid, who was missing in action in both of their losses.

This series will be won by the team that dictates the tempo (as in any series), but moreso in this matchup where one team has an overwhelming advantage in size while another will have to quicken the pace and involve the crowd to disrupt the system of coach Pumaren.* :)

flsfnoeraekadad
01-31-2007, 09:50 PM
2-2 na. Hehehe nice talaga. Best of three na lang!

cub
01-31-2007, 09:56 PM
2-2 na rin ang smb at redbull. nagkalat lang si bardagul kanina.. at puro "BOO!" pa natanggap niya galing sa fans.. buti nga! haha! :P

flsfnoeraekadad
01-31-2007, 10:02 PM
Badtrip si Egghead Pennisi eh. Pero in fairness maganda yung plays nya. Three tapos block kay Dondon at the defense to salvage the game...

...pero walang makapagbabago sa fact na I villify him so much. ;D

bigfreeze_bibby
02-01-2007, 06:57 AM
It was Junthy who made the block sumegunda na lang si Pennisi. It was a good play ran by the Beermen in that last 6 seconds kaya lang my question was why did they let Dondon handle that last play for he was out cold because of foul trouble? Sana binigyan na lang si Lordy man lang ng chance on that play or better yet, Dondon should've just made a pull up jumper when he got into the lane.

On the other game, Talk and Text just couldn't match the pace of Ginebra in the 4th quarter. Renren also had one of his off nights wherein he had open shots na hindi talaga pumapasok and worse, may mga forced shots din siya yesterday and on the other end Mark Caguioa is just shooting the lights out hitting treys and his floaters to his will.

Kid Cubao
02-01-2007, 09:23 AM
edited: i stand corrected. nanalo nga pala ang ginebra kagabi :D i thought macmac played well despite caguioa's taunting. ingat lang si renren dahil mukhang mahilig mang-iwan ng paa yung mga gwardya ng ginebra, lalo na si helterbrand.

about air21's peculiar approach to team management, all i can say is that i detect a pattern in their track record of trading away their best players, and i think money is at the root of it all. por kilo kumbaga ;D

Mikhail
02-01-2007, 10:24 AM
Air21 actually said before that they were building around Ritualo (as their 'franchise' player). Then they traded him. They have all these future draft picks lying around though from all the trades they made. Really does look like throwing away high salaried players.. ;D

While all their giveaway trades are annoying, I actually think their current team is better. Gary David is a much better fit for their system than Ritualo ever was. Add to that they have the most promising frontline in the league (unless of course they trade them away :))

Back to the Gin-TNT matchup: Kawawa naman si Macapagal, nabaon na sa rotation. I believe he is the perfect complement to Caguioa's and Helterbrand's slashing skills on half-court sets (gaya nga ng sabi ni joelex, tumitirik Ginebra pag mabagalang laro, puro iso plays). Tubid kasi halos similar skillset rin tapos Salvacion naman karaniwan palpak. :)

brian
02-01-2007, 12:32 PM
the pba is supposed to have balance trades in the future pending the creation of their restricted trading lists..pero ewan ko lang epekto nito sa fedex* :-X

sayang ang talo ng tnt kahapon, they weren't converting their shots while on the other hand, caguioa was hot entering the 4rth quarter....

bakabakan na eto sa fri. ;D

nel
02-01-2007, 12:46 PM
I was listening to the last quarter of the game on the radio last night, and the sportscasters were talking about how Jong had deliberately paced Caguioa and Helterbrand by reducing their minutes in the first half. He also didn't require them to practice hard during their pre-game sessions, and alternated them on the floor during the 1st & 2nd quarters. The sportscasters (Vanguardia and someone else) were commenting on how fresh the two looked in the final quarter. It seems to have worked, because they basically carried the load in the last few minutes.

Whatever Jong devised during halftime worked for Ginebra. The TNT bigs, Taulava and de Ocampo, ran into foul trouble, limiting their PT in the 4th and neutralizing the TNT height advantage. Washington was hot in the first half, with 21 pts, but tallied only 2 in the final 2 quarters. With Renren unable to hit his outside shots, Ginebra clogged the middle and took away the inside game.

What adjustments do you think Derek will make for Friday's game?

oca
02-01-2007, 01:30 PM
Air21 actually said before that they were building around Ritualo (as their 'franchise' player). Then they traded him. They have all these future draft picks lying around though from all the trades they made. Really does look like throwing away high salaried players.. ;D

While all their giveaway trades are annoying, I actually think their current team is better. Gary David is a much better fit for their system than Ritualo ever was. Add to that they have the most promising frontline in the league (unless of course they trade them away :))

Back to the Gin-TNT matchup: Kawawa naman si Macapagal, nabaon na sa rotation. I believe he is the perfect complement to Caguioa's and Helterbrand's slashing skills on half-court sets (gaya nga ng sabi ni joelex, tumitirik Ginebra pag mabagalang laro, puro iso plays). Tubid kasi halos similar skillset rin tapos Salvacion naman karaniwan palpak. :)


Air21, the corporate entity, just dont have what it takes to maintain a high payroll lineup in the PBA. Masyadong maliit ang company to even apply for a PBA franchise. Remember they were not Air21 when they came in. When their US partners transfered their hub away from the Philippines, para silang iniwan ng sugar daddy nila.

Kaya huwag magtaka kung maya't-maya sila mamigay ng franchise player.

Pagdating ng 2010 at hindi kaibigan ng mga Lina ang uupo sa palasyo, Air21 will lose a lot of courier servicing contracts they now have in gov't. Napakaliit ng Pilipinas for their business at maraming competition, to afford them to maintain a PBA team. Malamang ibenta na nila yung franchise nila by then.

bigfreeze_bibby
02-01-2007, 02:42 PM
Salamat for the enlightenment oca. With this news, di nga malayong mangyari na magkaroon ng bagong team sa PBA by then.

joelex
02-01-2007, 11:34 PM
a similarly too small a company for the PBA is red bull and as we can see they only have enrico as a high priced player and the rest are really bargains. add to that the fact that they are only paying half of the salaries to their other ateneo players (half is being subsidized by ateneo alumni). to have them contend for the title almost every single conference is a remarkable feat.

bigfreeze_bibby
02-02-2007, 07:18 AM
But I think Red Bull is an international brand. They are even sponsors of a Formula 1 team so I guess in terms of finances, medyo may laban naman sila. Game 5 na mamaya, what do you think will be the adjustments this time around from both teams? I feel that adjustments will be thrown away in this game and it will boil down to execution.

flsfnoeraekadad
02-02-2007, 09:39 PM
3-2!!! Mark Caguioa the hero for the Kings! He fueled two fastbreak conversions in the final 20 seconds. One for the lead and one that sealed the deal.

Tapusin na ito sa Linggo. SMB vs. BGK na. ;D

joelex
02-02-2007, 10:25 PM
what a great game. bakbakan talaga! great to see the fans filling the big dome like it used to..well ginebra kasi.

nel
02-02-2007, 11:24 PM
Great game. Kudos to both coaches for showing the ability to steady their teams under the most intense pressure from their opponents. Derek, for refusing to allow Ginebra to run away with the game after they built those double digit leads, and Jong, for preventing his team from getting rattled after TNT raced ahead by 6 points late in the game.

That miscue by Alapag cost them the game. Wonder if Manong Derek would consider trading Alapag for Cortez? Alapag's got a lot of good individual skills, but his decision making and ability to deliver are suspect come crunch time. Belano might have been a choice in the last minute. Cortez would probably be a better fit under Derek's system, while Alapag would most likely be welcomed with open arms by Cone given his preference for Fil-Ams on his team.

Pity that Macmac got injured and had to sit out the last 6 minutes. He pumped in 7 straight points before going back to the bench to have his cut treated after it started bleeding again. Renren wasn't able to get his shots in the final quarter, as his number was rarely called by the PGs. I think they went to Taulava too much instead of varying the offensive threats. Asi missed a couple of crucial shots that allowed Ginebra to regain the lead in the final minute. He reportedly was sick, and might not have had the legs at the end.

TNT now has their back to the wall. Let's see what Manong Derek will conjure up on Sunday.

While this series is between La Sallian coaches, the other game is between Atenean players. It's also very interesting, as no quarter is asked or given between the former Blue Eagles. Chot Reyes and his team seem to have the upper hand. Villanueva is visibly affected by the crowd reaction whenever he is involved in any play, and hasn't been as effective. Today, the Red Bull outside shots didn't fall, and without an outside game, they fell behind in the 2nd half and never recovered. SMC has declared that they will not be intimidated by the physical game of Red Bull, and it's Red Bull that now seems intimidated and on the defensive. Will Yeng Guiao be able to refocus his team?

Sunday's games will definitely be interesting.

bigfreeze_bibby
02-03-2007, 04:04 PM
There were already offers made before by TNT and Alaska for Alapag and Cortez but it seems that Alaska wants more and they don't want a one on one switch. There were news as well that Alaska doesn't want Alapag and they don't want to let go of Mike. I honestly want Cortez to go to TNT as well first because of the La Salle connection and second I think that Cortez will fit on Manong Derek's system.

flsfnoeraekadad
02-03-2007, 06:35 PM
Mac, Ren and Don fitted well in Manong's system and I don't think there's any reason for Mike to not do the same. Nagpang-abot naman ang mga ito except for Mac and Don.

flsfnoeraekadad
02-04-2007, 06:39 PM
PANALO GINEBRA!!! WOOHOO!!! ;D

bigfreeze_bibby
02-05-2007, 07:19 AM
Yeah. Big win for coach Jong yesterday. Ginebra was indeed lucky to get superb performances from Rudy Hatfield and Sunday Salvacion. Mark Caguioa was not in his usual self yesterday as he was kind of selective on his shots and didn't took too much attempts (IMO though). Mac's ejection was a big loss to TNT's rotation as for this series he's better off than Renren.

nel
02-05-2007, 09:01 AM
There were already offers made before by TNT and Alaska for Alapag and Cortez but it seems that Alaska wants more and they don't want a one on one switch. There were news as well that Alaska doesn't want Alapag and they don't want to let go of Mike. I honestly want Cortez to go to TNT as well first because of the La Salle connection and second I think that Cortez will fit on Manong Derek's system.


Cortez is not being fully maximized in Alaska. Cone's pet triangle system underplays the PG, and although Mike does perform well, he could do more if freed from the restrictive triangle offense. Unfortunately, since Cone has basically stuck with his system over the years that he's been coaching in the PBA, Alaska has become predictable. The triangle offense can be used effectively without a really good PG, as seen in the Chicago Bulls 6 championships under Phil Jackson, but Cone is no Jackson.

This conference, Alaska was expected to figure prominently as a challenger for the title with its lineup, but they were eliminated very early. Some attributed this to the loss of Cortez, but I think that even with Cortez, they would have underperformed. Under a different coach, Cortez can probably reach his full potential. Under Cone, I doubt if he will.

Going to yesterday's game, Jong was able to use his lineup pretty well, and eliminated TNT. Macmac's frustration with Tubid caused his to do that ill-advised kick, which got him thrown out. Even Renren had problems with Tubid, and that dates back to when they were teammates in Air21. Tubid can and will get the goat of the person he's guarding. Macmac and Renren will be his primary assignments whenever TNT plays Ginebra, and the two former Archers will just have to play it cool, and get one over Tubid by letting their games do the talking.

Renren couldn't get free because there was not enough ball movement, and the screens to get him free were not effective. TNT relied too much on Taulava, and he did deliver, but it's tough when he had all the Ginebra bigs all over him in the paint. Maybe an inside-out game would have opened things up. Macmac's ejection removed much of the penetration threat of TNT.

_weheh_
02-05-2007, 01:54 PM
this was the video when mac cardona kicked tubid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7Azl8rVNCE (credit: JuanT28)

when mac was ejected, he was talking to renren and you will see na he's worried. i felt bad for TNT since i was rooting for them to go to the finals with SMB. oh well.. bawi nalang sila next conference.

Kid Cubao
02-05-2007, 02:47 PM
all in all, not a bad run for manong derrick, kinapos lang :)

glock23
02-07-2007, 04:36 PM
baka tanggalin na ni MVP si manong nyan! wag naman sana! actually, in my opinion franz has become the better coach among the brothers. just my take :)

flsfnoeraekadad
02-07-2007, 09:22 PM
San Miguel-Ateneo ang kalaban sa Finals!

joelex
02-08-2007, 12:13 AM
baka tanggalin na ni MVP si manong nyan! wag naman sana! actually, in my opinion franz has become the better coach among the brothers. just my take* :)


i agree. franz might be ripe for the pros already even if his basketball theories are more college oriented. derick hasnt progressed much from his early coaching techniques i guess although no doubt still one of the better coaches around. not to put blame on anyone but tnt has all the tools already as far as the lineup is concerned yet lost to an undermanned and undersized ginebra team. maybe there are things needed to be fixed, and MVP surely is not the most patient team owner in the land. :)

nel
02-13-2007, 07:32 AM
In today's papers, Dodot Jaworski is quoted as saying that two teams, Air21 and TNT, are interested in getting Jawo back as coach. Does this mean that Derek's out as the coach of TNT?



http://www.manilatimes.net/national/2007/feb/13/yehey/sports/20070213spo3.html

Tuesday, February, 13 2007

*
Two PBA teams want Big J as head coach


Two teams in the Philippine Basketball Association are interested to get former senator Robert Jaworski as head coach in the next conference.

Rep. Robert “Dodot” Jaworski Jr. of Pasig City revealed on Monday that two ball clubs, Air 21 Express and Talk ’N Text Phone Pals, want to get the services of his father, known as the Living Legend of Philippine basketball.

“He [Big J] confirmed the offer but he’s is still thinking about which team,” said Dodot, who once played for Ginebra.

“Basketball is very close to his heart. Let us wait for his decision, which he will announce soon,” Dodot added.

Jaworski is one of those considered as the executive director of the Basketball Association of the Philippines-Samahang Basketbolista ng Pilipinas, which is now the official national sports association in basketball under the Philippine Olympic Committee.

He won four championships in the PBA, the last was the 1997 Commissioner’s Cup when he spearheaded the Gordon’s Gin to a convincing 4-2 win over Alaska Milk.

Jaworski won his first PBA title as playing-coach in the 1986 Open Conference when Ginebra beat Manila Beer in the Finals, 4-1. Then came the title with the Añejo Rhum with a 3-1 win against Purefoods in the 1988 All-Filipino Conference.

His best championship was that of the 1991 First Conference when the Gin Kings came back from a 1-3 deficit against Shell Velocity to capture the title.

Jaworski, who will turn 61 on March 8, played 24 seasons in the PBA.

He played a total of 958 games, with career averages of 12.3 points, 5.6 rebounds, 6.1 assists, and a steal per game.
--Francis Earl A. Cueto

Kid Cubao
02-13-2007, 08:25 AM
wag na nilang pakialaman ang TNT, pwede ba?

manong did a good job at the helm, considering the trials and ordeals he had to go through when he first assumed the post. dun na lang si tatang sa air21 tapos i-retain na lang si pareng bo as chief assistant and practice coach.

nel
02-13-2007, 08:55 AM
Hear, hear.

TNT did ok by placing 3rd, and figures to improve as the season goes on. Replacing Derek at this point will just bring them back to square one. Jawo would bring some spice to the moribund Air21 team, and might just help generate some following. IMO, Derek's the more scientific coach, and can better harness the diverse talents of TNT.

Is Jawo shopping around for a job? Seems suspicious, the way his son is doing the press release.

bigfreeze_bibby
02-13-2007, 09:17 AM
Mag Air 21 na lang siguro si Tatang. Seriously, mas bagay ang aura niya sa Air 21 compared to TNT. I have this feeling as well that Manong Derrick will be replaced in TNT pero sana wag naman matuloy. I think Jawo hasn't retired completely in the PBA (I can't remember any announcement of his retirement from the league). You may correct me if I'm wrong with this info.

brian
02-13-2007, 09:35 AM
sana sa air 21 na lang nga...

but if so, will air 21 turn into another ginebra or redbull ha ha!.....it would be quite interesting to see a coaching battle between jawo and yeng guiao..i'm speaking of course about the side events between the two..

paano kaya kung si jawo at hindi so pido jarencio ang nakasagupa ni yeng nung huling gulo sa sa pba ???

BigBlue
02-13-2007, 09:58 AM
hindi kaya kasama sa deal nyan na maglalaro uli sya? Jawo has always said that "he never officially retired" :D

oca
02-13-2007, 10:24 AM
IMO, the downside to Derek as a coach is he seem to be detached from the key players. Hindi ko makita yung personal rapport between coach and player. No problem with coaching per se.

I have this habit of observing teams the moment they step onto the court. Tinitignan ko yung demeanor ng players towards each other. Players to the coaches vice versa. Even players to the utility guys. From there malalaman mo kung sino ang sanggang-dikit. Sino ang mailap sa isa't-isa. Yung camaraderie ng buong team.

A good number of key players can't see eye to eye with Derek. To me that says a lot about about "their relationship".

Have you seen a kid talking to a person of authority, hindi matignan ng diretso? Yung tingin ay parang banlag? Yun yon!

Huwag na tayo lumayo para hanapan ng comparison tungkol sa player-coach relationship. Tignan niyo yung eye contact ng Archers with Franz. Ang nakikita ko lang madalas umiiwas na tumingin ng diretso ay si Ilad. Marami kasing kalokohan itong batang ito sa loob. ;D Ayun iniiwasan yung tingin ni Franz. ;D

Yung rapport na yun ang kulang kay Derek at key players ng TnT.

nel
02-13-2007, 11:04 AM
About Jawo attempting a comeback as a player, wag naman sana. The new breed of guards are faster, have better footwork, fundamentals, all around skills, and would run rings around him. He'd be at least 2 steps slower, baka magmukhang kawawa lang when he gets beaten on the dribble drive. Guards of Jawo's era didn't have the ankle-breaking skills today's players have. Guards are also generally bigger and taller today, and this negates any physical or size advantage Jawo had in the old days over the guards of his era. If Michael Jordan couldn't do it in his second comeback (and he's much younger and more athletic), it's highly unlikely that Jawo would be able to do it after how many years away from the competitive game. The game has changed, and so have the players. His legacy and reputation are best served by his staying "retired" as a player. Air21 could use him as a coach. Imagine how he could develop Arwind into one of the best cagers around.

Kid Cubao
02-13-2007, 11:11 AM
ibang usapan yung college coaching sa pros. first of all, in college coaching, the coach also stands as your teacher and surrogate parent, so therefore the coach interacts with his players on a number of levels, so it is natural for a colege coach to foster closer personal bonds with his players.

on the other hand, it's different in the pros. everyone is contractually obligated to the mother team, and players are assumed to be mature enough to be accountable to the coach and team management for their own actions. they are professionals, after all, so the relationships are anchored on professional terms--although eventually they become close with time. the danger for pro coaches is to become "one of the boys," because that kind of closeness has never resulted in lasting success. the pro coach has an obligation to team management first and foremost, and that is to deliver results.

i have seen up close how bickering teams come together to win championships, and i have seen how teams whose members love each other to death miss out the playoffs season after season. ok lang kung mga amateurs yung naglalaro, pero kung binabayaran kayo para makipagpalitan ng mukha, all things are secondary to winning.

oca
02-13-2007, 11:37 AM
ibang usapan yung college coaching sa pros. first of all, in college coaching, the coach also stands as your teacher and surrogate parent, so therefore the coach interacts with his players on a number of levels, so it is natural for a colege coach to foster closer personal bonds with his players.

on the other hand, it's different in the pros. everyone is contractually obligated to the mother team, and players are assumed to be mature enough to be accountable to the coach and team management for their own actions. they are professionals, after all, so the relationships are anchored on professional terms--although eventually they become close with time. the danger for pro coaches is to become "one of the boys," because that kind of closeness has never resulted in lasting success. the pro coach has an obligation to team management first and foremost, and that is to deliver results.

i have seen up close how bickering teams come together to win championships, and i have seen how teams whose members love each other to death miss out the playoffs season after season. ok lang kung mga amateurs yung naglalaro, pero kung binabayaran kayo para makipagpalitan ng mukha, all things are secondary to winning.


Sa kahit anong relasyon, pag di na kayo nagtitinginan, delikado yan. That's basic in any realtionship. Personal or professional. Pag mailap ang tingin niyo sa isa't-isa, tiyak may problema.

Derek is simply detached from his key players. That will not allow him to bring out the best from them.

nel
02-13-2007, 01:31 PM
I agree with kid cubao. In the pros, it's not necessary for the coach to bond with his players. At that level, all that matters is performance regardless of how the players and coaches feel about each other. While Derek's manner with his players may not be as warm as it could be, his players do perform as well as they can. Anybody not performing according to his coach's expectations or instructions sees a lot of bench time, and that's the last thing that a highly motivated player wants. Players who don't get a lot of playing time get traded, or worse, dropped from the lineup. The PBL and the lesser leagues have a lot of players who dropped out of the PBA, and every year the most promising amateurs join the draft. There's very little leeway for players to underperform, because of the risk that they may lose their positions on their current PBA team.

In the NBA, the Lakers managed to win 3 straight championships even when Kobe's relationships with Shaq and Phil Jackson were less than cordial. Larry Brown steered Philadelphia to the finals despite his well-publicized differences with Iverson.

Maybe Derek doesn't have the right mix of players in TNT, so management might look at trading some of their starters for players who might better fit his system and coaching philosophies.

nel
02-14-2007, 08:38 AM
At least, Air21's interest in Jawo is confirmed. About the part where Alvarez won't expect Jawo to transform the Express team overnight, paki-ulit nga? All you have to do is look at the average length of service of each of the Air21's past coaches and you'll see what I mean. I could be wrong, but I think that a coach lasts an average of a year or so at Air21. Their good players last a tad longer, maybe 2 years before they're shipped out (pun intended).


http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/sports/view_article.php?article_id=49336
Air21 confirms interest in Jaworski


By Musong R. Castillo
Inquirer
Last updated 02:26am (Mla time) 02/14/2007


MANILA, Philippines -- Air21 wants Robert Jaworski to handle the Express in the Philippine Basketball Association.

A statement issued Tuesday by the Air21 franchise said that Jaworski will meet with team manager Lito Alvarez on Thursday to discuss the possibility of the “Big J” holding a front-office position or, better yet, calling the shots for the Express.

“We’re very excited at the possibility of hiring him to coach the Express for the coming conference,” Alvarez said in the statement. “But of course, we would like to hear his thoughts first on whether he would like to be head of our basketball operations, or assume a full-time coaching job.”

Jaworski, arguably the most charismatic figure ever to play and coach in the professional league, is being wooed to take over the job currently held by Bo Perasol.

“He (Perasol) will slide down to assistant coach once the former senator agrees,” Alvarez said. “There won’t be a problem with coach Bo. As a matter of fact, he’s excited at the prospect of working with him.”

Jaworski won practically every award given to a player in the PBA, including the Most Valuable Player trophy in 1978, before becoming the first playing coach to win a championship with Añejo Rum in the late 1980s.

The 60-year-old, who won a seat in the Senate after a glorious 24-year professional career, won four titles with the Ginebra franchise. He was the man responsible for instilling Ginebra’s never-say-die attitude.

Alvarez said he isn’t putting undue pressure on Jaworski to transform the Express team overnight.

Uncle Toots
02-14-2007, 08:50 AM
mukhang good fit si tatang sa air21. habang nandun sya, baka pwedeng ibigay na rin sa kanya yung team manager duties ni lito alvarez, na bistado nating lahat na walang alam sa basketball.

brian
02-14-2007, 11:50 AM
kung nagkataon si jawo pa ang nagfire sa naghire sa kanya ha ha ;D

flsfnoeraekadad
02-14-2007, 04:08 PM
mukhang good fit si tatang sa air21. habang nandun sya, baka pwedeng ibigay na rin sa kanya yung team manager duties ni lito alvarez, na bistado nating lahat na walang alam sa basketball.
Aba, gagawin mo pang ala-Pop si Jawo ah. Coach na, GM pa. ;D

bigfreeze_bibby
02-15-2007, 08:13 AM
mukhang good fit si tatang sa air21. habang nandun sya, baka pwedeng ibigay na rin sa kanya yung team manager duties ni lito alvarez, na bistado nating lahat na walang alam sa basketball.
Aba, gagawin mo pang ala-Pop si Jawo ah. Coach na, GM pa. ;D


Why not di ba? I think it will be a good move to be able to transform Air21 to a more competitive franchise in the PBA. Kaya lang, di kaya mahati ang fans ng Baranggay regarding this matter? Will they "boo" the Big J if ever nagkaroon ng hard foul or dirty play scenario between Air21 and Ginebra?

GreenArrows
02-16-2007, 03:08 PM
If the Big J does coach Air 21, does this mean the end of the Barangay Ginebra fanatical fans? Will Jawo be able to draw that same fanatical hoard to his corner at Air 21. Remember, Jaworski was the prime mover in developing the kind of loyal (read: fanatical) following that Barangay Ginebra has today. Can the 'magic' still work?

nel
02-16-2007, 05:44 PM
I wonder if Jawo's years away from basketball will have diminished his following. For sure, those who started following the PBA after he left will probably not have developed any loyalty for him. The other teams like San Miguel, Red Bull, and Purefoods also seem to have gained their own considerable fan base, as seen in the reactions of the audience whenever they play. Barangay Ginebra is still very much around, but now has strong competition from fans of the other teams. The audience seems evenly split between the two teams in the ongoing finals.

Whether Jawo can get loyal Barangay Ginebra fans to defect to whatever team he surfaces with remains to be seen. In the meantime, there's nothing coming out of the TNT camp whether they are considering Jawo. Could this be a trial balloon floated by Dodot? Is Derek on the way out?

flsfnoeraekadad
02-17-2007, 12:15 AM
Ginebra blasts San Miguel two times, winning by 30 and 35 points for G3 and G4, respectively. Series tied at 2-2. Pivotal G5 is on Sunday.

bigfreeze_bibby
02-17-2007, 08:13 AM
Regarding the championship series, aabot ng game 7 yan. Maybe tambakan hanggang game 6 but then pagdating ng game 7, anything goes na yan. Kumita na eh hehehe.

freak
02-19-2007, 04:08 AM
Regarding the championship series, aabot ng game 7 yan. Maybe tambakan hanggang game 6 but then pagdating ng game 7, anything goes na yan. Kumita na eh hehehe.


with the way the series is going.. sang-ayon ako sa hinala ni bigfreeze.. ;)