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AnthonyServinio
09-04-2006, 09:04 PM
* * *GONE are the days when the so-called ENFORCERS terrorized the pro leagues.* They were a headache for the players they guarded but more so for the referees and Commissioner's Office.

* * *Their mere presence alone struck fear in the hearts of the opposition.* Their look was as if it was lifted out of a mold for villains in a Pinoy action movie.

* * *Sadly, today's PBA is loaded with too much pretty boys and sissies who are afraid to get hurt.* Bring back the enforcers!

pio_valenz
09-04-2006, 09:23 PM
I guess you'll just have to pray that Ira Buyco makes it to the PBA. :D

If you're looking for enforcers, check out half of Red Bull's line-up.

Wang-Bu
09-04-2006, 11:09 PM
Enforcer be ka'mo Sir Anthony?

Wala na ngang mga tunay na enforcer ngayon. 'Yung mga feeling siga gaya nung Enrico Villanueva at Jimwell Torion, ewan ko lang kung may tinagal 'yon sa mga gaya nina Dave Regullano at Tembong Melencio.

Ang huling naalala kong mga enforcer sa PBA sina Jay Mendoza (suki ng mga import) at Wilmer Ong (na isa sa mga huling naging "special forces" ni Jawo).

Pero teka, ano bang enforcer talaga? Ito ba 'yung wala ng ibang papel kundi mangumbag at mambarog ng kalaban? Kasi ang mga dating enforcer magagaling talagang maglaro, mga gaya nina Ricky Relosa, Vic "Rambo" Sanchez, Onchie dela Cruz at Rudy "Destroyer" Distrito. So hindi lang sila mga balyador, mga matitinding player talaga sila.

Hoops McCann
09-05-2006, 08:15 AM
Wang-bu has a point. Some of our most notorious enforcers are actually skilled basketball players to begin with, so you must first have the talent to back up your moxie. It's just that some of them got too carried away with their antics that the front office and the public grew tired of them.

In my view, the final straw was the premeditated flying tackle by RFM's Rudy Distrito on then Alaska rookie Jeffry Cariaso in the 1995 All-Filipino Championship. I recall it was already the dying seconds of Game 4, the outcome no longer in doubt with an Alaska win, when Cariaso received a pass off a teammate's steal on Distrito. He was coasting for the open layup on the other end when Distrito, no doubt incensed that Alaska continued to play defense in garbage time, sprinted downcourt, took off with a full head of steam, and gave the rookie everything he got except the kitchen sink. Cariaso received a massive blow to the face in mid-air, and then crashed and crumpled when he hit the hardwood. The referees read Distrito the riot act and was thrown out with less than three seconds remaining IN THE GAME. The front office slapped Distrito with an indefinite suspension, which took its toll for he was never the same player again after his return a year later.

So my answer to "where have the enforcers gone?" is simple: they cleaned up their act for fear of punitive measures by the Commish. They're still around, but they've met someone or something that can hurt them more than all the hurt they can ever dish out: THE PURSE.*

Mel
09-05-2006, 09:51 AM
Teams are bent on signing Paul Artadis and Paolo Mendozas instead of the Froilan Baguions
and the Robin Mendozas.

Style over substance....form over function.

May enforcers pa rin on the league...but only a handful and they get less playing time...
One of them is Kiko Adriano.

LION
09-05-2006, 10:14 AM
Image at marketing na kasi ang importante ngayon. Players are supposed to sell products. Kaya maraming nagtataka kung bakit sa katatapos lang na drafting sa PBA e maraming players na magagaling na hindi nakuha dahil hindi masyadong maganda ang image nila.

Ito ngang si Big Mac Andaya na nakuha na sa draft e nanganganib pa na hindi mabigyan ng kontrata dahil sa kanyang hitsura.

bluebruiser90
09-05-2006, 12:14 PM
Di pa puwedeng ma interview yang si Big Mac at parang may nakabara sa ilong pag nagsasalita.

chocoks77
09-05-2006, 12:26 PM
Wang-bu has a point. Some of our most notorious enforcers are actually skilled basketball players to begin with, so you must first have the talent to back up your moxie. It's just that some of them got too carried away with their antics that the front office and the public grew tired of them.

In my view, the final straw was the premeditated flying tackle by RFM's Rudy Distrito on then Alaska rookie Jeffry Cariaso in the 1995 All-Filipino Championship. I recall it was already the dying seconds of Game 4, the outcome no longer in doubt with an Alaska win, when Cariaso received a pass off a teammate's steal on Distrito. He was coasting for the open layup on the other end when Distrito, no doubt incensed that Alaska continued to play defense in garbage time, sprinted downcourt, took off with a full head of steam, and gave the rookie everything he got except the kitchen sink. Cariaso received a massive blow to the face in mid-air, and then crashed and crumpled when he hit the hardwood. The referees read Distrito the riot act and was thrown out with less than three seconds remaining IN THE GAME. The front office slapped Distrito with an indefinite suspension, which took its toll for he was never the same player again after his return a year later.

So my answer to "where have the enforcers gone?" is simple: they cleaned up their act for fear of punitive measures by the Commish. They're still around, but they've met someone or something that can hurt them more than all the hurt they can ever dish out: THE PURSE.*


Any updates on the Destroyer? Last I heard he we still languishing in a jail in the US for killing a Central American. The once mighty enforcer is in jail.

Kid Cubao
09-05-2006, 12:34 PM
chocoks, nanganganib si rudy distrito because las vegas county prosecutors want nothing more than a death sentence if he gets convicted. a number of former PBA stars now residing in the states have managed to put up a number of charity events to raise enough funds for him to contract the services of a top defense lawyer. it's that bad for him. what i heard is he can't invoke self defense after the coroner report said that his victim succumbed to multiple stab wounds--emphasis on the multiple.

oca
09-05-2006, 01:40 PM
chocoks, nanganganib si rudy distrito because las vegas county prosecutors want nothing more than a death sentence if he gets convicted. a number of former PBA stars now residing in the states have managed to put up a number of charity events to raise enough funds for him to contract the services of a top defense lawyer. it's that bad for him. what i heard is he can't invoke self defense after the coroner report said that his victim succumbed to multiple stab wounds--emphasis on the multiple.


From what we have read in the papers, the victim was in the company of Distrito's "ex". Hindi ba pwedeng depensa yung "crime of passion" ? Of course, hindi naman exactly "flagrante delicto" yung victim at yung "ex". Pero kung talagang may "recent relationship" si Distrito at yung babae na kasama ng victim... I suppose pwedeng hanapan ng paraan maging depensa yun.

Also, I read before that Distrito is not the owner "owner" of the knife ?

Kung hindi nga, ibig sabihin hindi premeditated. Then, bakit naman death penalty ang hihingin ng prosecution?

Kung naagaw niya lang yung weapon, kahit ilang beses niya pang sinaksak yun, I don't think death penalty ang pwedeng ipataw na parusa.* Professional witnesses can be called and explain to the jury ano ang kayang gawin ng taong "nagdilim ang paningin".

Wang-Bu
09-05-2006, 05:08 PM
May nakaligtaan akong enforcer sa college dati, si Jean Alabanza ng Ateneo. 'Yun ang talagang enforcer na classic, may galing at skill bilang player at hindi lang puro angas at pananakit ang alam. Hindi lang niya na-shuffle si BJ Manalo, pinakitaan pa niya ito ng mga galaw. Ganun din si Mar Morelos ng UE dati, at si Epoy Jalmasco, na dating tigasalo ng siko ni Dennis Espino nung practise player pa siya ng Sta Lucia.

Joescoundrel
09-07-2006, 10:10 PM
The more the game is made prettier for the cameras the less likely there will ever be enforcers in the modern game. With millions in TV contracts, advertising and sponsorships beating a path to organized leagues's doors, there won't be that much of a market for guys whose main basketball talent is the old-fashioned "sahod" or "balya". Guys like those take the prettiness out of the game that sells jerseys, sneakers, sports drinks, cars, celphones and other stuff. By taking the prettiness out of the game they take revenue away from the folks practically handing millions over to the leagues. And in this day and age, the bottomline has overtaken the blood-and-guts that used to define sports.

freak
09-07-2006, 10:45 PM
How about the late Rey Cuenco? He was Jawo's top enforcer during his heydays with Anejo Rhum. My officemate is just excited to relive the brawl he had with Jojo Tuadles. ;D

Schortsanitis
09-12-2006, 02:02 PM
Bring back the Enforcers? Thanks, but no thanks.

'Yung mga tipo ni Onchie Dela Cruz, na sinusundot yung mata ni Ricardo Brown tuwing sumu shoot'.

I remember Brown complaining to the refs one time, because Onchie would intentionally hit his fingers on Brown's face, targetting Brown's eyes, every time he tried to defend against Brown's shots.

mangtsito
09-12-2006, 02:40 PM
My stand on this is the same with trashtalking.

The practice of "enforcing" never elevated the game of basketball in any way. Arguing that present cagers are sissies due to the absence of enforcers is just about as silly as justifying flagrant acts of violence with the statement "kung ayaw mo masaktan, mag-chess ka".

If proponents of this "bring back the enforcers" are really serious, they should establish a separate basketball league that has no provision whatsoever on what constitutes a foul. Let's see how long that will last.

Jaco D
09-12-2006, 11:31 PM
I agree.* Similar to hockey, when finesse players like Wayne Gretzky came on board less gifted players resorted to underhanded tactics to narrow the skills gap.* Tuloy, The Great One had the likes of Marty McSorley (spelling?) to ride shotgun with him and keep the hounds at bay.* Ang hirap lang, dumami ang mga "skill-challenged" players who resorted to groping and the like that slowed the game considerably.* Ang boring tuloy.* Now that the NHL has put an emphasis on skills the enforcer corps had no choice but to upgrade their skills or call it a career.* Well, hockey as of late has becoming interesting again.* Put at least two athletes in a playing area, whether it's a hardcourt, a pitch or what have you, and it will always become a contact sport (though in varying degrees).* At the end of the day, skills make the game interesting.

joelex
09-12-2006, 11:46 PM
i still believe that enforcers are very much part of the game and any aspiring basketball player that complains about them should just quit playing. :) true basketball players know that enforcers are just doing their job and they play thru it, not complain. ;)

mangtsito
09-13-2006, 02:59 AM
i still believe that enforcers are very much part of the game and any aspiring basketball player that complains about them should just quit playing. :) true basketball players know that enforcers are just doing their job and they play thru it, not complain. ;)


^ What exactly is that "job"?

Kid Cubao
09-13-2006, 05:33 AM
para sa akin, "thuggery" should just be a facet of the overall package you bring to the floor. for it to be your main feature is an insult to the skilled players who are more deserving of your roster spot. kung ang alam mo lang ay mambalya at mamilay, hindi hahayaan ng league office ang ganyan. you will be severely penalized, as hoops mccann posted.

anyone can be an enforcer--all you have to do is create a persona and act the part by committing hard, cheap fouls. in other words, it can easily be faked. it's the basketball skills that can't. in this league, skills really matter because getting to the pros has become highly-competitive. either you have game or you don't.

joelex
09-13-2006, 07:24 PM
i still believe that enforcers are very much part of the game and any aspiring basketball player that complains about them should just quit playing.* :) true basketball players know that enforcers are just doing their job and they play thru it, not complain. ;)


^ What exactly is that "job"?


being physical is one of the many ways to help your team win. being physical here doesnt mean punching similar to yeo on rico, but by showing your opponent there are no easy baskets going around. such examples are dennis rodman, rick mahorn and charles oakley. in one way or another they have helped their teams win games. jordan's complains against detroit's physical play went nowhere, and sensing this he let himself get used to it and playing thru it. they won the follwing year. eventually, his team recruited one of his rival's enforcers, rodman, and they went on to win 3 more titles.

canmaker
09-13-2006, 10:18 PM
Hoops,

Ayon kay Orly Castelo nakasama din daw kay Distrito ang pag-insulto nya kay Mrs. Kerry Uytengsu in public noon. So talagang ipinagpilitan ni Fred Uytegsu na ma-suspindi ng matagal si Distrito ...

------------------



Wang-bu has a point. Some of our most notorious enforcers are actually skilled basketball players to begin with, so you must first have the talent to back up your moxie. It's just that some of them got too carried away with their antics that the front office and the public grew tired of them.

In my view, the final straw was the premeditated flying tackle by RFM's Rudy Distrito on then Alaska rookie Jeffry Cariaso in the 1995 All-Filipino Championship. I recall it was already the dying seconds of Game 4, the outcome no longer in doubt with an Alaska win, when Cariaso received a pass off a teammate's steal on Distrito. He was coasting for the open layup on the other end when Distrito, no doubt incensed that Alaska continued to play defense in garbage time, sprinted downcourt, took off with a full head of steam, and gave the rookie everything he got except the kitchen sink. Cariaso received a massive blow to the face in mid-air, and then crashed and crumpled when he hit the hardwood. The referees read Distrito the riot act and was thrown out with less than three seconds remaining IN THE GAME. The front office slapped Distrito with an indefinite suspension, which took its toll for he was never the same player again after his return a year later.

So my answer to "where have the enforcers gone?" is simple: they cleaned up their act for fear of punitive measures by the Commish. They're still around, but they've met someone or something that can hurt them more than all the hurt they can ever dish out: THE PURSE.*

Sam Miguel
09-14-2006, 08:20 PM
Here's a little something from hoops pundit Charley Rosen off MSN Sports:

"A distinction must be made between players who are rough and those who are downright dirty. Although those in the former category play physical, rock-'em-sock-'em basketball, they do so within the boundaries of certain accepted techniques having to do with appropriate placements for aggressive elbows, hip bumps and forearm thumps, plus the execution of deliberate fouls that are not career-threatening, and so on.

Players who are considered to be dirty, however, routinely overstep these boundaries and are more concerned with winning than with the possibility of their tactics inflicting serious injuries on their opponents.

That said, the NBA's inaugural season of 1946-47 (when the league was known as the Basketball Association of America) featured the largest number of truly dirty players. The reason for this was that most of the BAA's 11 charter franchises were administered by men (or their representatives) who owned arenas, and who also were either total or partial owners of the professional ice hockey teams that played in those arenas.

Accordingly, it was believed that nothing pepped up a game and brought back customers more than a rousing fistfight. Despite the fact that zone defenses were legal (if for only the initial 10 weeks of that first season), the players gleefully assaulted each other on a regular basis. The referees lacked any real authority to curtail this violence &3151 technical fouls incurred a mere $25 fine and were used to pay the commissioner's salary. There were no automatic penalties for blatant punches, elbows to the face, trips, kicks or bites.

As a result, early BAA action was as much mayhem as it was skilled competition. Even so, one player was deemed to be the most bloodthirsty and physically abusive of them all - Ed Sadowski. But "Big Ed" was more than just a hatchet man. He was a 6-foot-5, 240-pound powerhouse scorer in the low post, who averaged a career-high of 19.4 ppg with the 1947-48 Boston Celtics.

Wally Osterkorn (1951-55) had his career shortened by a torn muscle in his thigh, but he showed no mercy to opponents while he was healthy. He once greeted a highly-touted rookie named Jack Molinas with a pair of vicious elbows to the stomach before saying, "Welcome to the NBA, Jack." And Osterkorn used to dare Bob Cousy to drive the ball into the middle. But Osterkorn's untrammeled ferocity was tamed when he got involved in a fight with Zeke Zawoluk resulting in Zawoluk's mother racing out of the stands and beating Osterkorn's head with an umbrella. Unwilling to hit a woman, Osterkorn allowed her to chase him around the court until Zawoluk finally corralled her.

Red Auerbach always liked having a hit-man or two on his roster, the most notable being Bob "The Tank" Brannum (1948-55), Dwight "Red" Morrison (1954-58) and "Jungle" Jim Loscutoff (1955-64).

How mean was Charlie Share? At 6-11, 245, he played for several teams from 1951-1960, and was noted for setting the most evil moving screens in the NBA. During part of his tenure with the Fort Wayne Pistons, Share's coach was Paul Birch, an infamous hot-head who wasn't very far removed from his own active career to the point where he often scrimmaged with his team. During one such scrimmage, Share enhanced one of his attack screens with an elbow to Birch's head that sent his coach sprawling. No surprise that Share was quickly traded to Milwaukee.

Opposing centers weren't afraid to admit having nightmares in anticipation of facing the Zelmo Beatty's wrath.

Zelmo Beatty (1962-1975) was a certified All-Star who used his elbows to help carve out space for him to operate in the pivot. Opposing centers weren't afraid to admit having nightmares in anticipation of facing the Big Z's wrath.

Nor was John Stockton quite the choir boy he seemed to be. Indeed, Stockton's elbow-flashing back-screens were a constant menace.

A pair of Knicks also make the list - Anthony Mason and Xavier "X-Man" McDaniel. This pairing came about when Pat Riley dropped his slick-Showtime game plan in order to mimic the contemporary successes of the Bad Boy Pistons.

Speaking of which ? Chuck Daly claimed that he had nothing to do with the below-the-belt antics of his players, which was, of course, nonsense. In any event, these guys were arguably the dirtiest team of all time.

Bill Laimbeer was the most obvious offender, with his brutal head-hunting and after-the-whistle fouls - and Dennis Rodman wasn't far behind. But the worst offender on that team was Isiah Thomas. Zeke's favorite little trick was exercised on defense, when he was wont to step on an opponent's plant-foot just the unsuspecting player was trying to take off with ball in hand and jump to the basket. If the refs never caught on to this nasty business, Thomas's peers were well aware that their careers were jeopardized whenever they tried to beat Zeke to the hoop. And this was the primary reason why MJ refused to play on the original Dream Team if Thomas was included on the roster.

Of today's players, Bruce Bowen's grabbing, scratching and under-cutting defense qualifies him as the dirtiest. Kenyon Martin's bully-boy tactics hover on the edge of danger, but only when he plays at home. Ruben Patterson sometimes crosses the line, as does Danny Fortson.

But the dirtiest player in NBA history was Dave Cowens. Yes, he was skilled. Yes, he was tough. Yet his all-out aggressiveness was frequently mindless and downright sadistic. (In a bar-fight while he was in college, Cowens once bit off a large piece of an antagonist's nose.) Cowens, more than any of his predecessors, was considered by his contemporaries to be the one player whose over-the-top brutality was most likely to send an opponent to the hospital.

OUCH!"

Sam Miguel
09-14-2006, 08:26 PM
I believe the classic enforcer who was both a skilled basketball player FIRST and only a basher SECOND has already come and gone. Joseph Yeo's antics against Enrico Villanueva were pure thuggery that has no place in organized basketball, in much the same way Villanueva's dragging of former San Miguel import Stephen Howard in a pocket tournament game was also totally uncalled for. Neither Yeo nor Villanueva would ever fit the classic bill of the enforcer but those specific actions of theirs are simply ridiculous. Playing tough, playing hard, that's always good. But these antics are simply juvenile, certainly not worthy of the ones mentioned above by Charley Rosen.

Where have the enforcers gone? Try the tar pits at La Brea.

joelex
09-14-2006, 09:57 PM
I believe the classic enforcer who was both a skilled basketball player FIRST and only a basher SECOND has already come and gone. Joseph Yeo's antics against Enrico Villanueva were pure thuggery that has no place in organized basketball, in much the same way Villanueva's dragging of former San Miguel import Stephen Howard in a pocket tournament game was also totally uncalled for. Neither Yeo nor Villanueva would ever fit the classic bill of the enforcer but those specific actions of theirs are simply ridiculous. Playing tough, playing hard, that's always good. But these antics are simply juvenile, certainly not worthy of the ones mentioned above by Charley Rosen.

Where have the enforcers gone? Try the tar pits at La Brea.


thanks for reminding us about the enrico-stephen howrad incident. I forgot about that all along. That act was downright uncalled for and definitely out of bounds. in fact, howard seems to be one of the nicer imports we've seen. i am not sure about this, but i've heard from some time ago that rico villanueva was also involved in a shouting incident in the parking lot in a mall in the ortigas area and saying the infamous "dont you know who am I?" quote. some of them are just the same after all, haha.

mangtsito
09-15-2006, 10:54 AM
Thank you for the clarification Sam Miguel.

When this thread was in the first page, it certainly looked to me that the definitiion of "enforcer" was one which involved overstepping the rules to inflict physical violence on opposing players. In fact, in all the online discussions about enforcers that I've ever read, I never saw mention of "enforcers" that worked within the rules.

This leads me to another question. Almost all "enforcers" that have been named in this thread and in other threads have inflicted unnecessary violence (and have been known for it). In that case, how valid is this definition of enforcing that you are presenting to us now in light of joelex's theory (on how an enforcer helps the team win)?

Last time I checked, intentional elbows are still penalized when caught. Heck, even something as "light" as trash talking merits a technical foul.

I stick with my stand that it it's against the rules, then it should not be done.

Sam Miguel
09-15-2006, 04:15 PM
Mangtsito, I believe your stand on the matter is totally sound, and in fact reflects the current paradigm adopted by most of the bigger and more popular basketball organizations. In this day and age, thuggery of any kind in basketball is hardly appreciated by anyone. People now want to see gravity-defying highlight reels, flashy passes and street dribbling. THAT is how players are expected to stamp their class now. You want to show how much better you are? Drive down the lane, leap over two or three defenders and slam that rock home with both hands. Or wrap that pass around and bounce it between your legs to a streaking teammate in transition. When bodies come crashing to the floor and guys get their legs taken out from under them, not only will a fight erupt, the league office will come down hard on everybody involved in the altercation and be especially hard on the one who instigated everything, Ron Artest being the most famous poster boy of this kind of ruling.

Cubao is right on the most important score - the enforcers of old (as also stated in Charley Rosen's article) were not just bashers but legit ballers. Yes they cracked people's heads, but no one ever denied they really were very talented basketball players to begin with.

joelex
09-16-2006, 04:54 AM
if we brand enforcers' acts as punching or somrething closed fisted, then i agree it has no place. yeo and torion's clostheline on alapag conform to this nature. but i dont think we can also label basketball tactics such as practiced by the likes of tugade, junthy valenzuela, wherein they also are playing rough but in order to help the team, unlike the case of yeo and torion. (yeo's punch and jimwell's clostheline happened 90 feet from the basket). the players i mentioned (tugade, etc) are known to be rough and hard nosed, in fact, a little elbow here and there is common from their style of play. but it is unfair for their actions to be compared to yeo's punch, although if we go by the book, their elbows are also against the rules. but still, it is different from a ridiculous punch. if we go by saying all actions against the rules has no place in basketball, almost every basketball player will be left with no place.

another point that i would like to share is how the younger generation of basketball players cant seem to accept any contact whatsoever. a slight nudge here, complain agad. watching my son and his friends play, all of them are so into UAAP basketball na konting tulak maghahanap ng foul agad. they feel they are being intentionally hurt even if there is no intention by any means. i really hope we could have the Prime channel in our cable provider so i could get my kid to see NBC basketball. no harm no foul, but still, they understand among themselves that all of those roughness and physicality are part of the game that they should play through.

:)

arjay_g
09-17-2006, 07:43 AM
Hehehe, i think its natural that when you're a kid playing bball, eh may pagka- "nana" ka pa rin when it comes to fouls. It would only subside, once maturity in playing the game sets in, especially if the kids get some experince playing in inter-color or inter-subd or inter-baranggay meets, where it is the referees who say which is a foul and which is not. Also, I think, complaining about fouls is ok.* Incessant complaining isn't.* Complaining may actually do you some good, as it would at least alert the referees of what is happening.* But if complaining is the only thing you ever do, and it affects you're game, then yun na ang mali.

But I do agree that bball is a contact sport.* I myself admitedly dish out some "gulang" of my own when playing.* However, gulang, is different from plain, "thuggery".* A little elbow here and there, i can tolerate (although siempre hihingi ako ng foul, hehe), and i've been a recipient of many karpintero-elbows while playing with their lot in the bball court at our subd.* But clothesline? teka pare, awat muna....

That being said, my take on the enforcers is this: Ok lang sila sa akin as long as they are within the motions of the game.* A little bit off the rules (such as konting tulak, elbows, etc) ok lang.* Even hard fouls, ok lang, as long as they are going for the ball.* But instigating brawls, pre-meditated hard fouls (na obvious namang aimed at the person, not the ball), clotheslines, etc. are out of the question.* Also, ok lang sa akin if these enforcers don't have as much offensive skills.* Defense after all is also part of basketball, and it is on defense, wherein these enforcers excel.* Pero sana naman, kahit basics marunong sila (i.e. dribbling, etc).* hehehe.

Sam Miguel
10-25-2006, 04:01 PM
If you want to see a classic enforcer watch the smaller amateur leagues. You'd be amazed what they get away with there.

Wang-Bu
10-26-2006, 03:45 PM
Hindi ko na maalala kung nagkabakabakn na sina Rudy Distrito at Onchie Dela Cruz sa laro. Parang sa tagal na napanood kong maglaban ang kani-kanilang mga koponan ni hindi man lang nagkapikunan ang dalawang kilalang bargas ng PBA. Kayo ba may naalalang nagpang-abot ang dalawang sigang ito?

MonL
10-26-2006, 04:58 PM
Hindi ko na maalala kung nagkabakabakn na sina Rudy Distrito at Onchie Dela Cruz sa laro. Parang sa tagal na napanood kong maglaban ang kani-kanilang mga koponan ni hindi man lang nagkapikunan ang dalawang kilalang bargas ng PBA. Kayo ba may naalalang nagpang-abot ang dalawang sigang ito?


Silang magkahawig na enforcers, wala yata.

Si Rudy Distrito, Street Brawler vs. Alvin Teng, Black Belt. Nagkaroon, pero di natuloy/natapos. :P

pio_valenz
10-26-2006, 05:14 PM
After reading Allan Caidic's overrated autobiography, I suddenly remembered Abe King. He was a six-three enforcer often assigned to guard the opposing team's import. He rebounded very well and wasn't afraid to mix it up underneath.

Wang-Bu
10-26-2006, 06:19 PM
Meron dating "Protected List" ang PBA, apat na manlalaro na hindi dapat mapunta sa iisang koponan kasi masyado ng lalakas ang sinumang makakuha sa kanila at mawawala na ang "balance of power" sa PBA, taragis Cold War na Cold War ano. (Baka ka'ko si Hans Morgenthau ang de facto commissioner ng PBA nung may protected list pa...)

Ang naalala ko sina Mon Fernandez, Abet Guidaben, Manny Victorino at Yoyoy Villamin ang apat na hindi pwedeng maging magkakampi nung mga panahon na iyon. Dati DAW nandun din si Abraham Columbus "Abe" King. Bakit kaya nung bandang huli wala na siya, naging magkakampi pa sila ni Victorino ng ilang taon sa Great Taste ni Baby Dalupan. Tsaka bakit kaya hindi din sinama dito si Ricky Relosa, na naging ka-Bruise Borthers ni Villamin sa Hills Bros dati.

Ang kilalang enforcer sa protected list na 'yan si Villamin lang. At tama si Sir Pio, pati si King kilala ding enforcer. Si Relosa ba hindi nabansagang enforcer? Sa alaala ko kasi parang siya pa ang mas enforcer kaysa kay Villamin nung nasa Hills Bros sila.

MonL
10-27-2006, 07:45 AM
Meron dating "Protected List" ang PBA, apat na manlalaro na hindi dapat mapunta sa iisang koponan kasi masyado ng lalakas ang sinumang makakuha sa kanila at mawawala na ang "balance of power" sa PBA, taragis Cold War na Cold War ano. (Baka ka'ko si Hans Morgenthau ang de facto commissioner ng PBA nung may protected list pa...)

Ang naalala ko sina Mon Fernandez, Abet Guidaben, Manny Victorino at Yoyoy Villamin ang apat na hindi pwedeng maging magkakampi nung mga panahon na iyon. Dati DAW nandun din si Abraham Columbus "Abe" King. Bakit kaya nung bandang huli wala na siya, naging magkakampi pa sila ni Victorino ng ilang taon sa Great Taste ni Baby Dalupan. Tsaka bakit kaya hindi din sinama dito si Ricky Relosa, na naging ka-Bruise Borthers ni Villamin sa Hills Bros dati.

Ang kilalang enforcer sa protected list na 'yan si Villamin lang. At tama si Sir Pio, pati si King kilala ding enforcer. Si Relosa ba hindi nabansagang enforcer? Sa alaala ko kasi parang siya pa ang mas enforcer kaysa kay Villamin nung nasa Hills Bros sila.


Si Ricky Relosa mas kilalang maruming manlalaro kasabay ng tigasing si Yoyoy. They were the local version of the Bill Laimbeer and Rick Mahorn tandem. "Rick Mayhem" protected "Lame-butt's" back all throughout those "Bad Boy" years. And as with his NBA counterpart, Ricky was a "crybaby" when caught by the refs with a hard/dirty/maiming/debilitating foul.

But he, like Alvin Teng, was the player to throw at an opponent's high scoring import, and he would do the job well.

salsa caballero
10-27-2006, 05:27 PM
^ As opposed to fellow Chinoy Benny Cheng, who COULDN'T do the job well. PBA import legend and one-time Celtic Tony Harris had him on his ass and suffer the ignominy of being called a "punk/kid". I'm pretty sure he wasn't alluding to the Chinoy's hair...

Then there was 6-3 banger Anthony Dasalla who got "Superman" Billy Ray Bates seething and literally shaking with anger from his antics, (Bates would've killed him...literally.)

But yes, Abe King a proud son of Sangley, to my mind was a true enforcer a'la Distrito. He mowed down a couple of home intruders with his trusty M-16 and lived to tell the tale. Of course he now lives to tell it in the U.S.

pio_valenz
10-27-2006, 07:41 PM
^I remember that M-16 incident. But the story I heard was that the intruders were actually professional hitmen hired to liquidate King. Apparently in his work as councilor of Paranaque, King stepped on some pretty big toes with his anti-drug campaign.

Somehow King was tipped off that the hitmen were on their way to his house. So he shut off all the lights and waited in the dark. As soon as the hitmen entered his home, he sprayed them both with bullets. That's like...hanep. Ang tindi niya.

joelex
11-01-2006, 03:45 AM
If you want to see a classic enforcer watch the smaller amateur leagues. You'd be amazed what they get away with there.


UM of coach tolentino.

the coach himself symbolizes how his players play. ;D

MrGotti
11-02-2006, 10:36 AM
Will Freddie Abuda and Chris "Stonewall" Jackson fit the bill as being an enforcer?

Kid Cubao
11-02-2006, 10:44 AM
mukhang hindi. an enforcer must be someone with greater notoriety than being the resident defensive stopper.

Sam Miguel
11-02-2006, 05:30 PM
Enforcers have gone the way of the dinosaurs...

MrGotti
11-02-2006, 07:04 PM
Homer Se is trying to be the top enforcer of the league.

1979
11-02-2006, 07:30 PM
some names come to mind.... blasts from the past eh!!

Rambo Sanchez

Joy Dionisio

Jay Ramirez

Jawo

Iron Man Noblezada

Art de la Cruz (semi)

Dennis Abbatuan

yup half of Red Bull

you guys are correct..... extinct na....

Johnny Revilla nga pala!

MrGotti
11-02-2006, 07:55 PM
The late tembong melencio
Big Boy Reynoso
Estoy Estrada
Etoy Esguerra
Juancho Estrada
Sonny Cabatu

Wang-Bu
11-02-2006, 09:50 PM
Tila yata kapag enforcer pwede ding pang-Inter Planetary na liga:

Juancho "Choy" Estrada
Django Rivera
Marcelino "Toying" Teves
Dong Postanes
Wilmer Ong

Kulang na lang si Michael Jordan pwede na silang mag-Space Jam 2...

bluebruiser90
11-03-2006, 07:09 AM
Wilmer Ong, classic enforcer. Siguro yung unang tatlong taon niya sa PBA, talagang hitman lang ang role niya sa Ginebra. Alam na alam mo na pag pinasok, may bibigyan ng malakas na foul. Pag binubulungan pa lang ni Alamat habang papunta sa scorer's table, tinataas baba na yung wristband niya, parang nagkakasa na ng shotgun at may titirahin.

Sam Miguel
11-06-2006, 09:14 PM
Wilmer Ong was the last of the real dinosaurs...

Bennie Bangag
11-07-2006, 09:49 AM
Wilmer Ong, classic enforcer. Siguro yung unang tatlong taon niya sa PBA, talagang hitman lang ang role niya sa Ginebra. Alam na alam mo na pag pinasok, may bibigyan ng malakas na foul. Pag binubulungan pa lang ni Alamat habang papunta sa scorer's table, tinataas baba na yung wristband niya, parang nagkakasa na ng shotgun at may titirahin.

which is ironic, considering he was a highy-touted pick from the PBL ranks when he entered the pros. he was an offensive force with slick back-to-the-basket moves in addition to being a defensive presence. nahasa yan nang mabuti nung hinawakan ni coach perry ronquillo, ewan ko ba kung bakit ginawang berdugo ni jawo.

MonL
11-07-2006, 10:08 AM
Wilmer Ong, classic enforcer. Siguro yung unang tatlong taon niya sa PBA, talagang hitman lang ang role niya sa Ginebra. Alam na alam mo na pag pinasok, may bibigyan ng malakas na foul. Pag binubulungan pa lang ni Alamat habang papunta sa scorer's table, tinataas baba na yung wristband niya, parang nagkakasa na ng shotgun at may titirahin.

which is ironic, considering he was a highy-touted pick from the PBL ranks when he entered the pros. he was an offensive force with slick back-to-the-basket moves in addition to being a defensive presence. nahasa yan nang mabuti nung hinawakan ni coach perry ronquillo, ewan ko ba kung bakit ginawang berdugo ni jawo.


IIRC, he also played for Da Nose as an A&W Rootbear in the PBL with guys like Olsen Racela, Tem Gancayco, Jorge Gallent, etc., which may explain his giving his all every time he is sent in.

joelex
11-08-2006, 05:25 AM
where have the enforcers gone?

well quite a bunch of them are in the lineup of the Philippine Star basketball team circulating in different commercial leagues around the metropolis.

razor
11-11-2006, 11:30 AM
Chito Loyazaga. He can hurt the opposing teams in so many ways, figuratively that is.* ;)

He used to shut down imports like Norman Black and big-time players like Mon Fernandez while scoring quite a few baskets himself.

He was very physical but always played under control.

chocoks77
11-15-2006, 10:34 PM
Would you side with me if I say Mick Pennisi is the so-called enforcer for the current PBA players. Two instances come to mind, Eugene Tejada and now Danny Seigle. Danny S. was whacked in the face during a scuffle in tonight's game.

Joescoundrel
11-16-2006, 03:32 PM
Abe, Mick Pennisi is a limp d--- and would be an embarassment were he to be included in the pantheon of great enforcers.

sa_pula
11-16-2006, 10:59 PM
Danny Seigle has a huge cut on the cornea(center of the eye). tinanggal ang parte na nakalawit sa mata. hindi siya nakakakita dahil nga may sugat. ni hindi nga niya mabuksan ang mata dahil sa hapdi. nakamonitor ang buong opthalmologist dept para kung lumala pa ito o sumakit ng mas grabe, i-coconfine na siya. wala pang status sa nose niya. ang sabi ng doctor, direct contact ang nangyari. which means na tinusok talaga. info coming from SMB therapists..

This is from nemonemo42 from SMB forum @ pba.ph...

theboywhocriedwolf
11-17-2006, 12:24 AM
Kaya pala less than 10 pts lang si Seigle. And I'm not surprised it happened against Yeng Guiao's team, which probably is the closest to having legit enforcers in Pennisi, Sharma, and Valenzuela (and at times, Enrico). The main difference though is that these players do other things as well (especially on the offensive end), not unlike the true enforcers of the past.

MonL
11-17-2006, 08:00 AM
But the dirtiest player in NBA history was Dave Cowens. Yes, he was skilled. Yes, he was tough. Yet his all-out aggressiveness was frequently mindless and downright sadistic. (In a bar-fight while he was in college, Cowens once bit off a large piece of an antagonist's nose.) Cowens, more than any of his predecessors, was considered by his contemporaries to be the one player whose over-the-top brutality was most likely to send an opponent to the hospital.

OUCH!"


Darryl Dawkins, already then having a reputation as an intimidating man-child upon his entry in the NBA straight out of high school, had nothing but complaints against Cowens, about him always trying to hurt opponents. When told of "Squawkin' Dawkin's" comments Cowens replied: "Tell Dawkins he can go back to high school where he belongs."

Other big names then when the term "enforcers" were in vogue, when every team wanted to have one:

Maurice Lucas - Poster boy of the NBA all star more noted for his intimidation than his 20-10 talent. Squared off with Dawkins in the 1977 NBA Finals. Pulled an opposing player's face into his face when the fool complained of Lucas' roughhousing.
Calvin Murphy- Battled guys a foot taller than he and would still win.
Dennis Awtrey- Journeyman thug. Kept by teams to have someone shove opponents around. Did not earn his keep through his 1.0pts and 2.0 rebound average per game.
Sam Lacey
Wes Unseld
Kermit Washington- The dark side. Shattered the face of* Rudy Tomjanovich and both paid a high price for it. Since then, the NBA tightened up on player fights. This probably signalled the end of the old school enforcers.

Gone forever are the days when a player can even boast that "All I got was a suspension and a fine."

MonL
11-17-2006, 08:05 AM
Chito Loyazaga. He can hurt the opposing teams in so many ways, figuratively that is.* ;)

He used to shut down imports like Norman Black and big-time players like Mon Fernandez while scoring quite a few baskets himself.

He was very physical but always played under control.


In one interview then, when he was an up and coming player out of San Beda, he said: "My father is not my idol since I did not see him play. Jaworski is my idol. No one else." :)

LION
11-17-2006, 08:18 AM
Kermit Washington- The dark side. Shattered the face of* Rudy Tomjanovich paid a high price for it. Since then, the NBA tightened up on player fights. This probably signalled the end of the old school enforcers.

Gone forever are the days when a player can even boast that "All I got was a suspension and a fine."





People refer to this incident as "The Punch". Poor Tomjanovich. He was blind-sided. Never saw it coming.

MonL
11-17-2006, 09:24 AM
People refer to this incident as "The Punch".* * Poor Tomjanovich. He was blind-sided. Never saw it coming.


Imagine the term "crack of the bat" in baseball whenever a hit is made. Now imagine a baseball thrown at 100 mph by a major league pitcher and hit by a slugger. That's how forceful "The Punch" was on Rudy's face. It was pitiful as Rudy T was trying to act as peacemaker to Washington and his teammate, Kevin Kunnert. He was running toward them full speed. Washington saw a blur coming toward him and instinctively reacted with his fist. Rudy never even had a hand up in defense. That punch more than anything shortened Rudy T's career by several years as he endured several corrective surgeries on his head and face, which cost him more than a season.

Washington was suspended for 60 games that year. The pre-Showtime Lakers then traded him away. He had a chance for redemption with the pre-Bird Boston Celtics who wanted a tough player in his mold in their frontline, but with the change in Celtics ownership then he moved on to that hellhole of a franchise then, the San Diego Clippers. His career took a nosedive after that. And he carries that stigma with him to this day.

chocoks77
11-17-2006, 10:09 AM
Bruce Bowen and his pussyFOOT that he leaves when players make the jumpshot. I don't believe it is not intentional. Once you see how he did it with Kobe, VC, Ray Allen, Steve Francis, Jamal Crawford.....

BigBlue
11-17-2006, 10:27 AM
chocoks77, here's an article i just read about Bowen's dirty tactics:

The dirt on Bowen (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/marty_burns/11/15/bowen.reputation/index.html?eref=si_nba)
Marty Burns
SI.com

Last Saturday's on-court confrontation between Knicks coach Isiah Thomas and Spurs forward Bruce Bowen renewed an old question about a three-time member of the NBA All-Defensive first team:

Is Bowen a dirty player?

To be specific, is Bowen's habit of sticking his wingtips under his man when he's attempting a jumper intentional? Or is it merely the byproduct of a hard-nosed defender giving his all to contest a shot?

A sampling of former players turned NBA executives produced generally favorable views of Bowen's play. Yet while acknowledging that Bowen might come close to crossing the line, no one was willing to completely condemn "Eddie Scissorhands" (as Phil Jackson once dubbed Bowen) for his questionable tactics.

"He's a very tough, hard-nosed defender who crowds you and tries to get under your skin," said an Eastern Conference general manager who spoke on condition of anonymity. "He's basically a pest.

"[But] I don't think he's sticking his foot out intentionally. He's a defensive player. He does what he can to bother you and throw you off your game. But knowing him and knowing his character, I don't think he'd go out there and intentionally try to hurt somebody."

Said another East executive: "I see it as just a guy playing hard defense. Does he grab, hold and play physically? Yeah. But is he perceived around the league as a guy who goes out to hurt people? I don't think so."

Bowen's defensive tactics came to light again after Knicks guard Steve Francis landed on the defensive ace's foot while attempting a jump shot in a game at Madison Square Garden on Nov. 6. Francis sprained his ankle and missed three games.

Bowen has been accused before, most notably by Vince Carter and Ray Allen, of sticking his foot underneath shooters, and his reputation apparently wasn't lost on Thomas. When asked the day after the game what he would have done as a player had an opponent stuck his foot underneath his when attempting a shot, the Knicks' coach/GM said: "I'd beat the --- out of somebody. Really, I would --- murder them. ... There's certain things you don't do."

So perhaps it wasn't surprising that five nights later, in the team's rematch at San Antonio, Thomas went ballistic when he thought he saw Bowen stick his Nikes under Knicks guard Jamal Crawford on a jumper. An irate Thomas immediately pointed at Bowen on the court. The two exchanged words, with Bowen later accusing Thomas of having threatened to "break his neck." (Thomas denies having said that, though he acknowledges he told his players, "Next time he does that, break his ------- foot.")

Thomas also exchanged angry words with Spurs coach Gregg Popovich, though after the game the two met at midcourt and shook hands.

Bowen, who would rather drink Clorox than talk about the subject, downplayed the incident. Still, temperatures in the AT&T Center were raised high enough that even Tim Duncan felt compelled to criticize Thomas for having created a scene.

"It's a bad situation when a coach puts himself in that position and goes after a player," Duncan said. "It's very uncalled for. I don't know what his intentions were with that and we have bigger plans than trying to hurt somebody. I would hope that people would understand and respect that and obviously they don't."

While the incident itself has blown over (the NBA reviewed the play and determined no penalties were in order), the larger issue about Bowen -- and what constitutes good defense as opposed to dirty play -- remains.

There is no doubt that a player sticking his foot under another player is a good way to throw off a shooter -- and potentially wreck a career. As one Western Conference executive who played in the NBA said: "If you think you're going to land on a [defender's] foot, you're not going to be able to shoot the ball in rhythm. It takes you right out of your follow-through. ... But it's a dangerous play. You can easily get hurt."

Yet the executive refused to say Bowen was doing it intentionally. "I really couldn't say," he said. "I don't know him. I don't know if he was taught or coached or drilled [on how to defend]. But there's no evidence he's doing it intentionally so you have to give him the benefit of the doubt."

Those who do know Bowen say there is no way he would ever try to hurt an opponent. They point to his incredible rags-to-riches tale of a disadvantaged kid who went undrafted out of Cal State Fullerton making it as a key contributor for an NBA champion. They cite his sparkling reputation off the court, his long list of charitable deeds in the community. They also say the Spurs' organization would not tolerate it.

"If anything Bruce is too nice," said a close friend and former NBA teammate of Bowen's who also wished to remain anonymous. "If he were an a------, nobody would say anything about him. They'd be afraid he'd punch them in the face. ... But Bruce isn't like that, so Vince Carter and Ray Allen and Rip Hamilton feel they can say what they want about him.

"But, trust me, I've known Bruce for a long time. There's not a dirty bone in his body."

In some ways Bowen might be a victim of his own success. As one GM pointed out, there are other players who push the envelope defensively -- such as Eric Snow, Raja Bell and Ruben Patterson -- but don't get the same scrutiny. The GM also noted that Bowen defends the other team's top scorer every night, making it more likely he'll be involved in confrontations with high-profile players like Carter or Allen.

The GM went on to raise an interesting statistical argument: Let's say Bowen defends the other team's top scorer each night, and that the scorer attempts 20 shots per game. If Bowen actively contests half those shots, he's looking at 820 times per season (10 shots x 82 games) where he's flying out at his man trying to get a hand in his face. Over the span of five years, that's 4,100 plays.

"How many times has he been accused of [sticking his foot underneath] over that time span? Four or five? Out of [4,000] plays?," the GM notes. "When you look at it like that, it doesn't seem like it's intentional."

Perhaps the best argument in Bowen's defense, however, is that the NBA has never seen fit to punish him. The league has cracked down hard in recent years on fighting and flagrant fouls in a clear effort to eliminate the old justice system in which players took matters into their own hands on the court. Yet so far discipline czar Stu Jackson has seen nothing to warrant any penalty -- though he did phone Bowen on Sunday to warn him to watch his feet in the future.

Jaco D
11-17-2006, 01:43 PM
^^ Wasn't that how Tembong Melencio shackled Shin Dong Pa during one of those RP-Korea championship games in the early 70s?* At least si Tembong put his foot between the Korean's legs so the latter couldn't establish his shooting form, or if he was up in the air, was out of balance.* It looked legit - no one gets hurt and no one complained.* Of course, unless Tembong's wingtips made "Hi-how-are-ya" with Shin's "Winged Tips" and...nevermind, the thought of it just makes me weak in the knees.

Emon74
05-05-2009, 02:05 PM
buhayin ko ulit eto thread:

1973 ABC championships here in Manila where Tembong Melencio shackled korean legend Shin dong-pa, with the help of another enforcer Dave Regullano, in 1972 Munich Olympics, Tembong sent Italy's ace Dino Meneghin sliding on the floor chest first that led to a players' fight between the filipinos and Italians at the dugout after the game.

isa pa sa original bad boy ng Philippine Basketball was Charlie "boom-boom" Badion, he ended the playing career of Taiwan's lou Ji-Ran.

MonL
05-05-2009, 04:57 PM
^^ Wasn't that how Tembong Melencio shackled Shin Dong Pa during one of those RP-Korea championship games in the early 70s? At least si Tembong put his foot between the Korean's legs so the latter couldn't establish his shooting form, or if he was up in the air, was out of balance. It looked legit - no one gets hurt and no one complained. Of course, unless Tembong's wingtips made "Hi-how-are-ya" with Shin's "Winged Tips" and...nevermind, the thought of it just makes me weak in the knees.



IIRC, it was the late Ed Ocampo who was Shin's nemesis. IIRC, according to a young Recah Trinidad's account, when South Korea dethroned the Philippines in the '68 ABC in Bangkok, the Philippine team did not have Ocampo in the lineup and Shin ran roughshod over all defenders thrown against him, scoring 32 points. Only Rudolf Kutch kept the RP team in the fight by engaging Shin in a fierce scoring battle, firing 36 points for the RP cause.

According to Trinidad's writeup, Shin's stomach would turn whenever he saw Ed's name in any Philippine Team lineup. Talk about getting into an opponent's head.

untamed
05-07-2009, 10:03 PM
here's the pic of the GODFATHER of all the pba enforcer. even in the reunion game he is still the man. ;D

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/3725/22401293.png (http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=22401293.png)

Emon74
05-15-2009, 11:04 AM
si Oscar Rocha daw got the biggest fine ever in PBA history, and nine months of expulsion, it is said that he went on a rampage in one game.

christian
05-15-2009, 11:25 AM
What happened? ;D

The_Big_Cat
05-15-2009, 11:29 AM
si Oscar Rocha daw got the biggest fine ever in PBA history, and nine months of expulsion, it is said that he went on a rampage in one game.

I think the biggest fine was dealt to Rudy Distrito. This was when the destroyer made "sahod" to then rookie Jeff Cariaso.
Oscar Rocha has the distinction of being the first PBA player to be ever suspended.

Oscar's son was a playground playmate of mine. The son went to San Beda but later transferred.
Kahit matanda na, yung tikas ng katawan ni Oscar, SOB talaga ang dating. ;D

Kid Cubao
05-15-2009, 01:03 PM
after that suspension, distrito was waived by his ballclub (swift/RFM, i think). i might be wrong here, but i don't remember distrito ever suiting for any PBA team after that mindless breakaway sahod on alaska rookie jeffrey cariaso. sa MBA na sya uli naglaro bago naglaho nang tuluyan, only to return in the headlines as the prime suspect in the killing of his ex-wife's suitor.

The_Big_Cat
05-15-2009, 01:39 PM
^Tama Kid. That incident basically ended Rudy's PBA career. He was re-instated by the PBA after a few months but no team was willing to sign him.

Emon74
05-15-2009, 02:36 PM
si Oscar Rocha daw got the biggest fine ever in PBA history, and nine months of expulsion, it is said that he went on a rampage in one game.

I think the biggest fine was dealt to Rudy Distrito. This was when the destroyer made "sahod" to then rookie Jeff Cariaso.
Oscar Rocha has the distinction of being the first PBA player to be ever suspended.

Oscar's son was a playground playmate of mine. The son went to San Beda but later transferred.
Kahit matanda na, yung tikas ng katawan ni Oscar, SOB talaga ang dating. ;D


I hope you could ask his son what his dad really did, curious din ko what happened, on why Oscar Rocha got suspended for so long, si Rudy Distrito definitely got the stiffest penalty ever sa PBA, being banned for the rest of the year for his wrongdoing against Jeffrey Cariaso.

Kid Cubao
05-15-2009, 02:59 PM
kung di ako nagkakamali, matagal nasuspindi si oca rocha dahil nanapak ata ng referee.

BedanRoar
05-15-2009, 04:41 PM
^^ Wasn't that how Tembong Melencio shackled Shin Dong Pa during one of those RP-Korea championship games in the early 70s? At least si Tembong put his foot between the Korean's legs so the latter couldn't establish his shooting form, or if he was up in the air, was out of balance. It looked legit - no one gets hurt and no one complained. Of course, unless Tembong's wingtips made "Hi-how-are-ya" with Shin's "Winged Tips" and...nevermind, the thought of it just makes me weak in the knees.


Wasn't it the late Ed Ocampo that shackled Shin Dong Pa?

Kid Cubao
05-15-2009, 04:49 PM
it was tembong melencio in the early 70s. wala na ata sa national team si ed ocampo at the time. sya rin yung pasimuno ng rambol nung ABC championship game na yun.

Raging Blue
05-15-2009, 08:24 PM
Where have you gone Victor "Rambo" Sanchez?

untamed
05-15-2009, 10:22 PM
bumaba na talaga laro ni rudy nung nalipat sya ng swift, but no one can denied that the destroyer's refining moment is the 1991 game 7 winning shot against shell. basically that night belongs to him & many considered that as the last days of the original "never say die" team of ginebra.

untamed
05-15-2009, 10:23 PM
Where have you gone Victor "Rambo" Sanchez?


hehehe! the dante varona look a like.

Kid Cubao
05-16-2009, 02:12 AM
Where have you gone Victor "Rambo" Sanchez?

after his playing days, vic sanchez served multiple terms as councilor in his hometown of binan and is presently coaching a college team in STRAA.

pepman
05-16-2009, 10:25 PM
bumaba na talaga laro ni rudy nung nalipat sya ng swift, but no one can denied that the destroyer's refining moment is the 1991 game 7 winning shot against shell. basically that night belongs to him & many considered that as the last days of the original "never say die" team of ginebra.




Syempre naman....