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cackler
09-28-2005, 04:09 PM
I guess everybody keeps on hearing: "It is the Pumaren System that does it!" Everybody talks about it but what is it really? Of ocurse, only the Pumarens know the complete picture but, as far as you are concerned, how do you see the "System" to be?

Is it a system of recruitment? Conditioning? Defense? Peaking at the right time? What are its components? What role does the use of oxygen have on this system? Is it dependent on Pumaren being the Coach? What can we all learn from arguably the most suceesful collegiate basketball program?

Your thoughts and impressions please.

Wang-Bu
09-28-2005, 05:59 PM
Ang sistema ni Franz Pumaren is a PBA system adapted for the college game.

Tama si Cackler: conditioning, speed, disruption of opposing games through quick reaction, building up of certain instincts such as constantly darting hands on defense and the chain-lightning ball swing at the halfcourt.

Kung titignan mabuti parang Alaska system nung Grand Slam days ni Tim Cone, or Norman Black's Grand Slam San Miguel system. It incorporates the quick scoring option of the old PBA with the systematic defensive system of the PBA of the 1990's, and refined with the basketball science of today. Its all about preparation, tiyagaan sa scouting, sa preparation ng game video na madaling naiintindihan ng bawat player, pagpapaliwanang sa buong team sa practice pa lang kung anong dapat gawin. Kaya kinaya nila ang Ateneo, a taller and more athletic team. Wala ng Sandy Arespacochaga na masisisi ang Ateneo for their losses. Talagang magaling lang ang ginawang preparasyon ni Franz.

Sigurado ako magkakaprublema ang FEU against such a clockwork system as this. Pero this time Franz is working against a team as disciplined and as obsessed with preparation as his own team, AND mas malaki at mas malakas sila, hindi natataranta like Ateneo.

bchoter
09-28-2005, 06:32 PM
It's like Rick Pitino's US NCAA version which is hinged on conditioning, speed, disruption of opposing games through quick reaction, building up of certain instincts such as constantly darting hands on defense and the chain-lightning ball swing at the halfcourt... ooops... inulit ko lang pala yung sayo Wang-Bu... hehehe... short of saying that I totally agree with. And with their type of defense one wonders how they always get the better of the non-calls which leads us to another skill: avoid getting called for a foul by a.) always showing their hands to the refs (no hand check) and b.) nudging the ball carrier just enough to let him change direction BUT not enought to get called for a foul. Cardona is the best example. I've heard players complain about being nudged or hand checked by Cardona all game but he gets away with it. You often wonder what happened to the refs' whistles whenever DLSU is on defense.

cackler
09-28-2005, 07:16 PM
And with their type of defense one wonders how they always get the better of the non-calls which leads us to another skill: avoid getting called for a foul by a.) always showing their hands to the refs (no hand check) and b.) nudging the ball carrier just enough to let him change direction BUT not enought to get called for a foul. Cardona is the best example. I've heard players complain about being nudged or hand checked by Cardona all game but he gets away with it. You often wonder what happened to the refs' whistles whenever DLSU is on defense.


Thanks Wang Bu.

And this is another interesting aspect bchoter. I heard sometime ago that the Ateneo defenders tend to "guide" their opponents toward a particular spot. On the other hand, the Alas (Letran and now Adamson) system requires the "guiding away" or "deflection" of the opposing player from particular areas with the use of a strong arm (looks like but is not an arm bar or hand check).

Hmmm. I guess that when La Salle scouts for particular players to recruit, they would be looking for these "instincts" and attributes. Interesting.

Based on the La Salle system then, if they were to choose or recruit between two (2) big men of the same height and athleticism and the same defensive skills, which would they prefer, a big man who can post up or a big men who has a jumpshot?

Mateen Cleaves
09-29-2005, 04:59 AM
My guess, then, is that they would take the first big man to commit or the one blessed with more of the so-called "upside". All things being equal, tangible offensive skills may be rated lower than intangibles such as work ethic, appetite for defense, and coachability. The choice may not be between a shooter or a grinder. It might come down to one who CAN post up versus one who WANTS to post up.

I know it sounds like a cop-out, but the system is driven by defense and running. When it is working on all cylinders, the big man should be getting his points off lay-ups anyway. Post moves and shooting range can be developed. Cabatu is a good example here. I expect that Maierhoffer, in a couple of years, will also be a more complete scorer than what he is now. In evaluating a HS center prospect, good hands, rather than good touch, might be the better indicator of potential. (Gavino would be the negative example here. ;))

The beauty of Franz's system now is that he can afford to develop his big men more slowly on the offensive end. Because the guards are so productive, he does not need his big man recruit to be an immediate hit in the low post.

Sam Miguel
09-29-2005, 04:40 PM
I believe the so-called Pumaren System is a system based on creating mismatches instead of matching up. Look at how successful Franz Pumaren has been and the players who have been at the helm of his success as a coach:

Don Allado: the best big man of his time, and there were actually other good big men like Enrico Villanueva, Rysal Castro, Brian Gahol and Ruel Buenaventura

Renren Ritualo: the best shooter of his time, and the best at moving without the ball, the likes of James Yap and Mike Bravo notwithstanding

Mike Cortez: the best two-way guard of his time, and unlike other combos he was equally adept at both the 1 and 2, even as LA Tenorio and Denok Miranda were already making names for themselves as well

MacMac Cardona: perhaps the most versatile swingman of his time, and he had to contend with Wesley Gonzales and Larry Fonacier

Now there is Joseph Yeo: the emergence of TY Tang and JV Casio aside, still the best 2-guard of this time, in an era with RJ Rizada and Jeff Chan

Ryan Arana: arguably the most productive bench player of his time, could be a starter on any other team as a hybrid 2/3/4.

These six players have constituted the mismatch factor for Pumaren's system. All of the quick ball movement, conditioning and defensive intensity has been focused to make these particular guys even more lethal. Allado would've been bludgeoned to death down low, Ritualo would've been chased all the way to the Lower Box, Mike Cortez would've had swarms all over him, and none fo them would've been as good as they were, if not for the great ball movement, conditioning and turnovers created by the disruptive Lasalle defense.

By doing all of this, Lasalle created monumental mismatches that confounded the enemy. Allado, big and strong and athletic, was often on the receiving end of good dump passes inside for easy lay-ups. Ritualo, by coming of a series of screens and constant motion-within-a motion, easily found himself open to fire away from 25 feet if need be. Cortez, being a trapper instead of a stopper on the Lasalle press, was often off to the races taking away easy steals.

Its all about the mismatch.

cackler
09-30-2005, 12:12 AM
Sam Miguel:

I would like to qualify and put in my two cents impression that the Pumaren system is all about mismatch.

Mismatch yes but mismatch in terms of speed and athleticism and not so much in terms of height or bulk. The staggered pick also has a role as it brings a mismatch in terms of position. The picks seem to be designed to free a La Salle player to take the shot at the spot where he has the "mismatch".

With the Salgado incident from the DLSU vs. FEU game being the hot topic, I can't help but recall the other acts of La Salle in the Season. An impelling force seems to be pride and a refusal to lose. This same force makes them overly happy when they win and really feel bad when they lose.

Maybe the Pumaren System also has successfully created a program that will develope this sense of pride. I also notice this with the UE players.

cackler
10-07-2005, 12:41 PM
I also notice how La Salle pressure defense relies on "incidental bumps". To get a player out of his rhythm, La Salle defenders regularly bump him.

Hmmm.

Mateen Cleaves
10-08-2005, 07:44 AM
La Salle is just taking what the refs are giving them. Refs are more focused on the use of hands to control the offensive player. But they're now allowing a lot of "incidental" contact. Thus, "body contact" and "going over the back" to get a rebound or to contest a pass, are hardly ever called anymore. It used to be an automatic foul if somebody reached in for a steal -- not anymore. All of these represent opportunities for the defense. La Salle has done an excellent job of taking advantage of those opportunities.

I think that "discipline" is the word that applies to what La Salle does on defense. They are coached to be very aggressive, yet the players are generally conscious of avoiding the unnecessary and cheap fouls. Contrast that with Manny Dandan's young team at NU. They are probably just as aggressive as La Salle but they tend to pick up fouls by the bushel. Probably because they still use their hands a lot, and they have yet to learn the subtleties of defense that the La Salle veterans have mastered.

Gil_Andrews
10-13-2005, 11:03 AM
I think the way to break through the Pumaren system of constant press is to have the key personnel to handle the ball movement and another option on the post-up to challenge its weakest link which is supposed to be the center spot.

The key personnel are the following: 1) A heady point guard who can control the speed and who can reliably shoot from the outside; 2) reliable agile wingman who can dribble; and 3) a Post-up Center.

If you notice the compositions of Ateneo and FEU during their "more favorable" years against DLSU, they all had these 3 main personnel in the persons of LA Tenorio, Denok Miranda, Jonas Villanueva, Larry Fonacier, Rich Alvarez, Wesley Gonzales, RJ Rizada, Jeff Chan, Arwind Santos, Mark Isip, Rico Villanueva, and Gerard Jones.

The "shooting point guard" can disrupt the "motion zone" that Pumaren loves to execute with his wingmen and guards. When pressed at the backcourt, the reliable agile wingman (Wesley, Rich, RJ, Larry, Arwind) can break the press by simply driblling away because the Pumaren press is not designed to stop the dribble of an agile big man. Notice why Rich, Larry, and Wesley were always successful in bringing down the ball in 2002 and 2003?

The Center spot is the weakest link in the Pumaren system. If the opponent has a Rico Villanueva, Mark Isip, or Gerard Jones, it's almost always difficult for them to stop the post-up center despite the presence of a Gaco, Cabatu, Rico M., and the controversial Mark Benitez in their line-up. This is simply because the Pumaren system is not designed for one-on-one low post defense. It is designed for a "motion zone."

jackndbox
10-28-2005, 10:20 PM
i thoroughly enjoyed reading the intellectual dissection of pumaren's system until fraternizer spoiled the discourse. could we kindly keep this forum free from bashings? we know that despite franz's shortcomings (actual or perceived) he instituted a system that optimized the marginal talents of his wards inside the basketball court.

Wang-Bu
10-31-2005, 05:57 PM
I would like to qualify and put in my two cents impression that the Pumaren system is all about mismatch.




I agree.* An authentic student-athlete who worries as much about his jumpshot as he does his Philo orals is NO MATCH gainst an overage ineligble player who isn't required to carry any academic load and is afforded the royal treatment by alumni and school officials.* That's the TRUE foundation of the Pumaren System.




'Igan wala namang ganyanan, usapang basketball lang. Sistema ng basketball ang usapan dito. Sigurado ako at one time or another LAHAT ng school may ginawang "accomodation" sa star athletes. Kaya nga sikat na sikat ang dakong Caloocan dati...

bigfreeze_bibby
03-07-2006, 09:22 PM
For me, the ingredient to success of Franz's system is the chemistry of the team that he is putting through recruitment year-in and year-out, conditioning, and more emphasis on defense than offensive patterns.

I have to agree with Gil Andrews' point in saying that a big man who can dribble the ball down during the press break helps solve that pressure defense of the Archers. Just like what Wesley and Rich did back in 2002 and 2003 and Arwind Santos also did for FEU in 2005.

The last time La Salle played with a good center was during the time of Don Allado. Next frontcourt men for La Salle were merely role players like Adonis Sta. Maria, Manny Ramos, and recently Jerwin Gaco. The advantage of those 3 players: they can provide pressure as well to the opposing big man ball handler plus the point guard bringing also additional pressure making it difficult for the opposing team to setup their plays.

bombet
03-08-2006, 02:49 AM
Pumaren's system relies on full-court trapping defense, disrupting the passing lanes, unrelenting harassment of the ball carriers, motion offense, minimal dribbling, passing to the open man, big men with guard skills, double teaming on the low-post. He recruits players who are fleet-footed to disrupt passing lanes creating steals that leads to fastbreaks, easy points. His teams score points in a hurry, that's why La Salle has a hard time scoring on half-court plays because they lack the size to compete under the baskets. They rely on cuts under the basket and perimeter shooting. Take that away and La Salle struggles. Under his system, a lot of fouls are called due to reach-ins. Whatever you call it, it seems it is successful. Notwithstanding the ineligibility issue, Pumaren's system has netted him 5 championships. Benitez and Gatchalian are bench warmers, even if they did not play, I'm sure they will still be champions in 2004 and contenders year in and year out with Pumaren's system.

bombet
03-08-2006, 02:59 AM
I think the real secret of the success of the other schools in beating La Salle is the presence of talented point guards who can bring down the ball without help from his team mates. Teams successfull in the past were: UE (Artadi), Ateneo (Tenorio), and FEU (Miranda and Jonas Villanueva). Having a dominating big man is secondary because the opposing team should first be able to bring down the ball and avoid turn-overs to be able to dump the ball inside their big men. Pumaren's system relies on creating turnovers, not necessarily steal the ball but minimizing the amount of time for them to attempt a shot. The full court pressure eats up the time on the shot clock. If the opposing point guard can bring down the ball effectively and avoid turnover then half the battle is won. Also, those guards show their ability to penetrate inside the lanes.

bigfreeze_bibby
03-08-2006, 07:21 AM
Pumaren's system relies on full-court trapping defense, disrupting the passing lanes, unrelenting harassment of the ball carriers, motion offense, minimal dribbling, passing to the open man, big men with guard skills, double teaming on the low-post. He recruits players who are fleet-footed to disrupt passing lanes creating steals that leads to fastbreaks, easy points. His teams score points in a hurry, that's why La Salle has a hard time scoring on half-court plays because they lack the size to compete under the baskets. They rely on cuts under the basket and perimeter shooting. Take that away and La Salle struggles. Under his system, a lot of fouls are called due to reach-ins. Whatever you call it, it seems it is successful. Notwithstanding the ineligibility issue, Pumaren's system has netted him 5 championships. Benitez and Gatchalian are bench warmers, even if they did not play, I'm sure they will still be champions in 2004 and contenders year in and year out with Pumaren's system.


This is an additional thing that La Salle players have because they need to run all the time to provide pressure to the opposing team. UE is also doing the same system as well since Dindo took over coaching chores for the Red Warriors.

Fried Green Tomato
03-11-2006, 05:19 AM
What is the real Pumaren System?

Most of the observations here are correct - the conditioning of the players, heavy concentration on a reliable point guard and the never-say-die attitude instilled on the players - but these are just factors making up the real Pumaren System.

We have seen that there were times when others doubted the Pumaren system especially in 2004 but time & time again, we have shown that in the end, the team delivers.

The Pumaren System is just as basic as any other systems but it all boils down to the respect of the players to the coach (franz & derek long long time ago). No matter what the detractors say, in the final analysis, it is how the players execute into perfection the directives of franz... they simply have much respect and trust to their coach.

The system is not perfect but in so many instances, the execution is without doubt great because of the sound communication between the coach and the players.

fraternizer
03-11-2006, 06:23 AM
The Pumaren System is just as basic as any other systems but it all boils down to the respect of the players to the coach (franz & derek long long time ago). No matter what the detractors say, in the final analysis, it is how the players execute into perfection the directives of franz... they simply have much respect and trust to their coach.



As a mere observer of basketball systems instituted at almost every level of the game, I have always wondered why there appears to be a natural barrier between these levels where most of these systems cannot or find it particularly hard to traverse.* I am a relative newcomer to deeper analysis and not as technically schooled in the sport as most of the fora participants here but I am puzzled why the the accomplishments of the Badolato system at the grade school and high school level, for example, cannot seem to be translated into collegiate level success.* The Pumaren system also appears to have its difficulty crossing over into the professional level.* I understand that my opinion may sound simplistic and that many other factors do come into play during the importation of systems from one level to another, but what is the main deterent to extending the range of these systems?* Is it the age of the players where the younger they are, the better they respond to the respect factor?

bigfreeze_bibby
03-11-2006, 09:21 AM
To answer your question regarding the difficulty of each good system raising it to the next level, puedeng attributable factor dito is the level of competition in the tournament na ginagamit yung system. For example sa high school play, di masyado physical ang laro doon and tingin ko click ang motion offense at takbuhan sa ganung level of play while pagdating ng college, mas malalaking mama na ang kalaban doon, mas physical pero puede pa rin ang takbuhan kasi relatively mga bata pa rin naman ang mga players doon (up to 23-24 yrs of age perhaps).

Pagdating ng pro ranks, medyo scientific at mas gamit dapat ang set plays kasi you are not dealing with one specific age range for your players. May mga players ka na with iba't ibang edad kaya dapat mas maayos na yung system na ilalagay mo and mas mahirap mag-manage ng players na may edad na kasi mas mahirap na silang ma-control. ito lamang ay ayon sa aking opinion.

easter
03-11-2006, 09:34 AM
Is it the age of the players where the younger they are, the better they respond to the respect factor?


Another game factor is the stamina kasi parang pag bata di talaga napapagod. Furthermore, it is the willingness to do it dahil mahirap mag press for almost the whole game and since millionaires na ang nasa pros medyo yung motivation nababawasan.

The length of the game is another factor. While the UAAP plays 40 minutes, the pros have 48 minutes of game time. This is almost one full quarter. No NBA team does it and you rarely see them press. Of all the PBA teams right now, only Red Bull employs the press constantly as a weapon. And Red Bull can do it since they have a deep and young bench (si Pennisi lang matanda nila). Plus they don't do it every game unlike DLSU and UE na kahit sinong kalaban eh ganun ang laro nila. Bill Bayno tried this with Talk & Text as well and for a while it worked wonders but then again the length of the game and also the length of the tournament makes the challenge taken to a higher level.

fraternizer
03-12-2006, 12:42 AM
Thanks bibby & easter for your input.

I just heard that UE won the HAIL championship. It is very hard to argue with success and this latest victory for the Pumaren system strengthens its case further. Congrats to Dindo and his staff.

bigfreeze_bibby
03-12-2006, 07:51 AM
I have to agree with easter saying that in the pros, the motivation goes lower because the people you manage are millionaires to that effect hehe. Mahirap na ma-control ang mga players in the pro level, minsan pag minalas ka pa meron ka pang pa-star players na medyo pasaway din kaya lugi ka.

UE and La Salle employs the same system actually. Carbon copy talaga especially if you watch DLSU-UE games in the UAAP since Dindo took over the reigns in the Recto based school, everything boils down to execution of the plays since one team can't outplay the other since both teams are using the same plays although I am not removing the fact there are still variations for plays created by Dindo and Franz.

Kid Cubao
03-12-2006, 01:20 PM
tingin ko dyan is that the badolato system is ideal at the high school level, while the pumaren system is tailored for the college level.

what they have in common is they both use the full dimensions of the 50x94 hardwood on offense and defense. they both trap as a way to get easy points. however, the badolato system hardly uses any set plays on offense (it's more a matter of getting the ball to the best shooter or to the one closest to the basket), while the pumaren system involves a lot of pro sets and quick hitting plays, which is inevitable since franz and dindo both had stellar careers as PBA players while derek is a long-time PBA assistant and head coach.

the pumaren system all boils down to three words: PRESSURE TO WIN. to borrow former arkansas razorback head coach nolan richardson, this PRESSURE TO WIN directly results into 40 minutes of hell for opponents. so all their philosophies, training methods, and game preparations directly emanate from this mantra, which i think is clearly understood and upheld by everyone in the green archers organization.

gameface_one
03-16-2006, 12:10 AM
What is the real Pumaren System?

Most of the observations here are correct - the conditioning of the players, heavy concentration on a reliable point guard and the never-say-die attitude instilled on the players - but these are just factors making up the real Pumaren System.

We have seen that there were times when others doubted the Pumaren system especially in 2004 but time & time again, we have shown that in the end, the team delivers.

The Pumaren System is just as basic as any other systems but it all boils down to the respect of the players to the coach (franz & derek long long time ago). No matter what the detractors say, in the final analysis, it is how the players execute into perfection the directives of franz... they simply have much respect and trust to their coach.

The system is not perfect but in so many instances, the execution is without doubt great because of the sound communication between the coach and the players.



Sorry if it's only now that I was able to read your first post but I would like to welcome you to Gameface.ph FGT. We surely hope that you could share with us your usual intelligent inputs about LA Salle Basketball and amateur hoops in general. We assure you that we will maintain all discussions as bash-free, informative, and intelligent as possible. Pls. tell your friends about us and invite them to come over.

Now back to the topic........

bigfreeze_bibby
03-16-2006, 06:59 AM
Is it the age of the players where the younger they are, the better they respond to the respect factor?


Another game factor is the stamina kasi parang pag bata di talaga napapagod. Furthermore, it is the willingness to do it dahil mahirap mag press for almost the whole game and since millionaires na ang nasa pros medyo yung motivation nababawasan.

Of all the PBA teams right now, only Red Bull employs the press constantly as a weapon. And Red Bull can do it since they have a deep and young bench (si Pennisi lang matanda nila). Plus they don't do it every game unlike DLSU and UE na kahit sinong kalaban eh ganun ang laro nila.


Red Bull had a chance to employ this pressure defense (and I should say that it was successful in that extent since they won the championship last conference) due to the inputs of Franz's long time assistant in DLSU, coach Gee Abanilla.

Kid Cubao
03-16-2006, 08:30 AM
in a way, practically all PBA teams are slowly coming to the realization of employing full-court pressure coverages, not only red bull. yes, it's partly because of the winning formula of college teams like la salle, but it's more like our coaches are looking at the faster pace and relentless attacking approach of international basketball.

tell you frankly, gee abanilla's impact on red bull lies not so much on the full-court pressure defense they now unleash from time to time, but rather on the halfcourt sets they execute. kitang-kita yung mga bakas ng mga turo ni manong derrick pumaren.

bchoter
03-16-2006, 07:07 PM
I also think that players have to play together for a certain period of time to be able to execute a pressing defense cohesively. Pros don't necessarily have the luxury of playing together for a long period of time to get to a level of cehesiveness to execute the press. Pros are also expected to come in with complete set of skills while in the college ranks coaches can break a player in more deliberately.

shyboy
03-21-2006, 11:32 PM
How would Franz's system fair with the Philippines' National Basketball Team?

I think it would be great to see this system implemented by the Philippines in international competitions. In certain stretches of the game, the system disregards any height disadvantage that seem favorable to the opponent. It applies basketball smarts during the fullcourt press, i.e. knowing where your team mates are, knowing when to do a hard double team, proper use of hands/reach-ins, proper use of consequential bumps, etc. These translate to turnovers and result to quick points in bunches. Add to these the ability of the coach to know when to implement the press within the game. As they say, the offense have off-nights but the defense can not go on an off-night. No lazy legs on defense and strictly bawal ang mahirap utusan ng coach.

Kid Cubao
03-22-2006, 05:39 AM
any defense that forces an opponent to drastically adjust has got to work. however, i feel it's not so much the defensive coverage that'll ultimately determine its success (wala namang bago dun sa ginagawa ni pumaren), but rather the mentality and desire of the players involved. that's why it's important to select players who have confidence not only in themselves but also in the system. mark my words, once this kind of defense is able to create turnovers against the likes of china and south korea, tingnan natin kung sino pa sa kalaban ang gustong humawak ng bola.

bigfreeze_bibby
03-22-2006, 07:33 AM
I haven't seen any RP team who employed a full court defense in the international arena. Maybe this system would work if we'll give it a try. i have to agree with Kid Cubao as well regarding players' mentality. Iba ang nadadala ng mindset ng mga players sa isang laro eh. Mahirap talunin yun ganung kalaban na matibay ang focus sa laro. And franz doesn't use only 1 set of press defense, he uses various styles and puts different players in different roles depending the pressure set na papagawa niya.

bchoter
03-22-2006, 09:42 AM
You haven't seen Ron Jacob's boys then of which Franz Pumaren was a member.

admuhs_upengg
03-22-2006, 03:24 PM
The best advertisement for the Pumaren system is his last La Salle team which was bereft of any blue chip stars and yet managed to battle FEU in the finals.

When I think of the Pumaren system, the things that immediately come to mind are the press and the weave at top of the key. But ultimately it all boils down to hard-nosed-in-your-face defense.

shyboy
03-22-2006, 05:50 PM
any defense that forces an opponent to drastically adjust has got to work. however, i feel it's not so much the defensive coverage that'll ultimately determine its success (wala namang bago dun sa ginagawa ni pumaren), but rather the mentality and desire of the players involved. that's why it's important to select players who have confidence not only in themselves but also in the system. mark my words, once this kind of defense is able to create turnovers against the likes of china and south korea, tingnan natin kung sino pa sa kalaban ang gustong humawak ng bola.


It'll be quite interesting to see this system in play in this year's Asian Games. Dapat matanggal na yang takot against China. That's if the FIBA suspension gets lifted.

bigfreeze_bibby
03-23-2006, 12:51 PM
You haven't seen Ron Jacob's boys then of which Franz Pumaren was a member.


Bakit pre? Do they also use pressure defense? Sensya na at wala akong napanood na game of Ron Jacobs coaching Northern Cement or his RP team. Mga footages lang pag nanonood ng mga basketball documentaries and most of the time mga player profiles lang ang pinapakita.

shyboy, I think Korea's not afraid of China after all. Sila ang kontrapelo in terms of Asian basketball scene except on the FIBA-Asia qualifiers last year I think na mahinang team yung pinadala ng South Korea kaya medyo di sila competitive.

bigfreeze_bibby
03-23-2006, 12:54 PM
The best advertisement for the Pumaren system is his last La Salle team which was bereft of any blue chip stars and yet* * managed to battle FEU in the finals.*

When I think of the Pumaren system, the things that immediately come to mind are the press and the weave at top of the key.* But ultimately it all boils down to hard-nosed-in-your-face defense.


Mas okay siguro yung 2003 team (except for Benitez and Gatchalian hehe) wherein 8 rookies are in the team and yet they managed to force a rubber match in the final four against #1 seeded Ateneo Blue Eagles. I think that was the first time a 4th seeded team forced a rubber match to a top seeded team since the final four format was instituted in the UAAP.

admuhs_upengg
03-23-2006, 01:21 PM
Mas okay siguro yung 2003 team (except for Benitez and Gatchalian hehe) wherein 8 rookies are in the team and yet they managed to force a rubber match in the final four against #1 seeded Ateneo Blue Eagles. I think that was the first time a 4th seeded team forced a rubber match to a top seeded team since the final four format was instituted in the UAAP.


But Cardona and Yeo were on that team. Last year's team had only Yeo.

bchoter
03-23-2006, 01:22 PM
You haven't seen Ron Jacob's boys then of which Franz Pumaren was a member.


Bakit pre? Do they also use pressure defense? Sensya na at wala akong napanood na game of Ron Jacobs coaching Northern Cement or his RP team. Mga footages lang pag nanonood ng mga basketball documentaries and most of the time mga player profiles lang ang pinapakita.
Coach Ron Jacobs employed the full court press at some parts of the game and most especially after free thow conversions. He also employed man-to-man defense exclusively.

Kid Cubao
03-23-2006, 01:23 PM
ron jacobs introduced the five-man passing game and the attack approach to defensive basketball that completely revolutionized basketball as it was played and coached locally.

yes, they pressured the ball before inbounds and upon reception. they execute what is now commonly known as the red zone defense, which aims to lead the ball handler away from the middle and toward the trapping areas near the sideline, in the process using the hash marks as a third defender. the most notable trappers in those days include franz, hector, jun tan, jong uichico, elmer reyes, and louie brill. samboy lim, allan caidic, chip engelland, jeff moore, and yves dignadice were the rovers who played the passing lanes and positioned behind the trappers. whatever success franz enjoyed in his glory years at la salle is directly attributable to his long experience as a jacobs boy. yan yung dahilan kung bakit sinabi kong wala namang bago dun sa pumaren system. *

the five-man passing game is basically the offensive philosophy of bobby knight at indiana. it's an offense of constant motion filled with single and double screens, pick and rolls, give and gos and corner plays. it's been said that bobby knight came up with the idea of the five-man passing game from watching his ohio state teammate john havlicek in action. the nearest i can compare havlicek, who later became one of the greatest celtics, in terms of his constant motion without the ball is rip hamilton of the pistons. they even share a favorite shot attempt--the elbow shot coming off a double down screen.

bigfreeze_bibby
03-24-2006, 09:23 AM
But Cardona and Yeo were on that team.* Last year's team had only Yeo.*


Cardona was injured during the late stages of the tournament which left Yeo to do more of the scoring chores. Medyo yun yung breakout season niya wherein he averaged above 20 ppg ata if I'm not mistaken.

bigfreeze_bibby
03-24-2006, 09:26 AM
they even share a favorite shot attempt--the elbow shot coming off a double down screen.


This play also became the bread and butter for La Salle during the Ritualo era wherein Renren will move around double screens and pag sumunod sa kanya yung bantay nung screener, Willy Wilson or Mon Jose will cut strong towards the basket getting entry passes from Aldeguer or Cuan and ayun results in an easy layup. Pag di naman sumunod, Renren can automatically take that jumper.

bonzie1645
03-27-2006, 01:50 PM
in my opinion aside from the conditioning, plays, defenses, etc. i think the system is all about the coach's philosophy and approach to the game. coaching is not only the technical skills but the mental side of it that completes the system. the personality of the coach on the court will reflect on the way the players play the game. the reason why la salle players are not only hard working players but they are winners because their coach franz is a hard working player back in college, professional & international and he has won numerous championship that mades him a winner so his winning attitude das been injected to his players. what can you say about that?

LION
03-27-2006, 02:09 PM
Yes Bonzie. Loud and clear.

bchoter
03-27-2006, 02:11 PM
^ I think you need to edit your reply to match Bonzie's edited post :d

LION
03-27-2006, 02:19 PM
No need bchoter. He said it all.:)

esjay
03-28-2006, 06:23 PM
this is a nice thread ....

and basketball self proclaimed experts .... make even dig more to come up with a sensible observations...
i have my own observation regarding how the La salle success backed up with:

a. archers pressure defense with commitment and responsible dedication
1-2-1-1 alignment that was made to perfection by surprising the opponents, ofcourse pressure defense is never been easy, it takes sacrifice to be successful with this kind of defense, alot of school also uses this kind of full court pressure but not as successful as the lasallian does. They take away the center post press break by taking the spot before hand

b. half trap - they always made ballhandling like hell for the opposing team. They leave 2 choices a long pass or dribbling towarsds the corner of the halfcourt and the side line. intense pressure by surprise

c. the moving zone - they pick their spots as to were this player is more effective, again give thanks to the scouting reports

OFFENSE

there are two obvious things lasalle players tend to develop...

THE CENTER SPOT AND THE SHOOTING GUARDS ...ITS ALMOST ALWAYS LASALLE DEVELOP GOOD SHOOTING TOUCH AND A GOOD BIGMEN...
POINTGUARDS ARE DEVELOP WITH JUST A PURPOSE ...WHICH IS TO DISTRIBUTE THE BALL and a very accurate play motion makers

the sg - cardona, yeo, renren,
the c - allado etc
cortes (plays pg and sg(if they need scoring))


BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE THE STRENGTH OF THE MOTION OFFENSE LIES... OFCOURSE LIKE THE PLAYS OF BEERMEN WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY A RON JACOBS PATTERN MOTION OFFENSE...

it was patterned on ron jacobs motion and a derrick pumarens conditioning program and switching and back picks as almost always they will rely on.

they dont rely on extra pass... they tend to rely on picking up and finding miss matches or creating if i may say ...

esjay
03-28-2006, 06:27 PM
You haven't seen Ron Jacob's boys then of which Franz Pumaren was a member.


Bakit pre? Do they also use pressure defense? Sensya na at wala akong napanood na game of Ron Jacobs coaching Northern Cement or his RP team. Mga footages lang pag nanonood ng mga basketball documentaries and most of the time mga player profiles lang ang pinapakita.
Coach Ron Jacobs employed the full court press at some parts of the game and most especially after free thow conversions. He also employed man-to-man defense exclusively.


watch smb plays and it was ron jacobs plays almost always

LION
03-28-2006, 06:38 PM
^ Excellent analysis Esjay. :)

bigfreeze_bibby
03-29-2006, 07:35 AM
esjay, tingin ko SMB is not employing a full court press right now. Influence of Ron may come on the offensive and defensve patterns.

esjay
03-29-2006, 01:32 PM
esjay, tingin ko SMB is not employing a full court press right now. Influence of Ron may come on the offensive and defensve patterns.


yes indeed sir THEY DONT DO FULLCOURT ...but they DO half trap
THE OFFENSE PATTERN IS A COMBINATION OF SMB AND THE INFLUENCIAL KUYA AND DAD OF FRNAZ

the fullcourt press comes with their preparation and conditioning influenced by manong derrick and coach PILO PUMAREN

nel
06-02-2006, 10:20 AM
One of the biggest elements of the Pumaren defensive system is its mental impact on the opponents. Unlike in the early Pumaren years, the full-court press/trap was not extensively utilized throughout the game. Yes, the Archers would apply some full-court pressure, but more to use up more of the opponents' shot clock rather than to force turnovers. However, the trap could be sprung without warning, and this usually results in a sudden Archer scoring run fuelled by turnovers.

Once the trap is triggered, it can fluster the guards enough that by the time they finally regain their composure, La Salle typically has forced 3-4 turnovers and scored a quick bunch of points. The mere threat of the trap can be unsettling to competition.

shyboy
06-02-2006, 09:49 PM
I hope to see that dreaded press again in the near future. Hope we get a coach who's familiar with it. :)

atenean_blooded
06-03-2006, 03:03 AM
I hope to see that dreaded press again in the near future. Hope we get a coach who's familiar with it. :)


Won't it be possible for you to pry Dindo from UE? That way, maybe Boysie Zamar can go back to coaching UE, and La Salle can have one of its former stars coach the team.

1979
06-03-2006, 12:25 PM
I hope to see that dreaded press again in the near future.* Hope we get a coach who's familiar with it. :)


Don't worry. We will.* ;) ;) ;)

shyboy
06-03-2006, 09:08 PM
I hope to see that dreaded press again in the near future.* Hope we get a coach who's familiar with it. :)


Don't worry. We will.* ;) ;) ;)


Di na nga ako mapakali since Thursday eh. hehehe

shyboy
06-03-2006, 09:14 PM
I hope to see that dreaded press again in the near future.* Hope we get a coach who's familiar with it. :)


Won't it be possible for you to pry Dindo from UE? That way, maybe Boysie Zamar can go back to coaching UE, and La Salle can have one of its former stars coach the team.


Given the current situation, I don't think Dindo can move to La Salle even if he wants to. First of all, he has a three year contract to fulfill with UE.

atenean_blooded
06-03-2006, 11:47 PM
Well, maybe La Salle can sign him up when the contract with UE expires. I think Franz's system can be built on by Dindo. What might be important is to get, for lack of a better term, an interim coach familiar with Franz's system.

Or heck. Maybe La Salle can just tap Franz again.

toti_mendiola
06-04-2006, 10:29 AM
I hope to see that dreaded press again in the near future.* Hope we get a coach who's familiar with it. :)


Won't it be possible for you to pry Dindo from UE? That way, maybe Boysie Zamar can go back to coaching UE, and La Salle can have one of its former stars coach the team.


Given the current situation, I don't think Dindo can move to La Salle even if he wants to.* First of all, he has a three year contract to fulfill with UE.


Or DLSU can give Dindo an offer he cannot refuse ala Mike B..

atenean_blooded
06-04-2006, 10:56 AM
Of course, at the end of the day, it will be Dindo's decision.

Look, we can start going through the whole Burtscher thing again if you guys want, but I don't see how that will actually contribute to this discussion or change the circumstances.

toti_mendiola
06-04-2006, 11:08 AM
Of course, at the end of the day, it will be Dindo's decision.
Yes it will be Dindo's decision.


Look, we can start going through the whole Burtscher thing again if you guys want, but I don't see how that will actually contribute to this discussion or change the circumstances.

I am not to start the Burtscher thing, i was suggesting that they can actually go after Dindo if they really wanted to with just Mike B. as an example.
Look, the Pumaren brotyhers system and philosophy about the game is almost identical. I cant see no other coach rather than Coach Dindo who could pick up where Coach Franz left. The Green Archers will most definitely score a hit if they can get the younger coach by their side.

LION
06-04-2006, 11:23 AM
Of course, at the end of the day, it will be Dindo's decision.

Look, we can start going through the whole Burtscher thing again if you guys want, but I don't see how that will actually contribute to this discussion or change the circumstances.


What's your beef? If we want it, what's your stake?

atenean_blooded
06-04-2006, 07:39 PM
toti_mendiola:

I was about to suggest the other Pumaren (is it spelled "Derrick" or "Derreck"?), but then again he still has a contract with a PBA team. Actually, one of Franz's deputies might be able to run the Pumaren system.


LION:

I have no stake in this affair. But I am an observer who is prepared to discuss what I've read.

kryptonite
06-05-2006, 06:00 AM
Well, maybe La Salle can sign him up when the contract with UE expires. I think Franz's system can be built on by Dindo. What might be important is to get, for lack of a better term, an interim coach familiar with Franz's system.

Or heck. Maybe La Salle can just tap Franz again.


It is a known fact that Dindo is using his UE coaching experiences to bolster his credentials and experience in preparation for a Head Coaching job in DLSU. His heart belongs to DLSU. DLSU won't tamper with Dindo's live contract with UE. I think they will just get an interim coach until Dindo becomes available.

No need to open up the Mike B. case anymore. Let's just have a lively conversation here concerning basketball. It's not healthy to be bashing opposing schools here.

LION
06-05-2006, 07:24 AM
^ Ok, in deference to the many* la sallites who are now our brothers and sisters in our law school.* * * * *

Kid Cubao
06-05-2006, 07:44 AM
the issue has been beaten to death, lion. there's no compelling reason to go on and on with the burtscher thing when DLSU admin resolved the matter by not taking mike into the green archer fold. you have your san beda forum, dun nyo na lang pag-usapan hanggang gusto nyo.

LION
06-05-2006, 08:09 AM
kid cubao,

Hey I didn't reply anymore to AB.* I let him have the last word. Enough said?

nel
06-05-2006, 10:30 AM
toti_mendiola:

I was about to suggest the other Pumaren (is it spelled "Derrick" or "Derreck"?), but then again he still has a contract with a PBA team. Actually, one of Franz's deputies might be able to run the Pumaren system.


I think his real name is Frederick, but in the media it's become Derrick or Derek. His brothers' names all begin with "F" also. If I'm not mistaken, the Pumaren brothers also have Bedan roots.

Lucas Palaka
06-05-2006, 10:37 AM
yep, manong derrick is frederick, franz is francisco, and dindo is ferdinand.

LION
06-05-2006, 11:23 AM
^Because the father is Filomeno?

Lucas Palaka
06-05-2006, 11:33 AM
yes, that's the pumaren patriarch's given name :)

kryptonite
06-05-2006, 11:23 PM
toti_mendiola:

I was about to suggest the other Pumaren (is it spelled "Derrick" or "Derreck"?), but then again he still has a contract with a PBA team. Actually, one of Franz's deputies might be able to run the Pumaren system.


I think his real name is Frederick, but in the media it's become Derrick or Derek. His brothers' names all begin with "F" also. If I'm not mistaken, the Pumaren brothers also have Bedan roots.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think only Dindo has Bedan roots. Franz and Derek graduated HS from UE due to their father's stint there as Head Coach of the Varsity squad. Coach Pilo went on to coach La Salle and his sons, Dindo and Franz eventually followed him to play there. I think Derek graduated college at UE.

LION
06-06-2006, 04:35 PM
About Derek, did he play college ball?
*

MonL
06-06-2006, 05:11 PM
About Derek, did he play college ball?
*


The only time I saw him play competitive ball was when he played for the 1982 edition of the RP Youth team, along with Hec Calma, Almario, Brill, Alfarero, Jun Tan,* etc. He must have played under some system prior to his enlistment... It was at this time that the Pumarens were involved in the basketball program under Project Director Danding C. Pilo was an assistant coach in one of those early Northern Cement/RP Training* teams bannered by American players like Lingenfelter, Moore, Still....Franz was backup to Frankie Lim in the Men's team.

nel
06-06-2006, 08:38 PM
I remember that Derek played for La Salle together with Franz in the early 80s. I can't remember when, though.

kryptonite
06-06-2006, 11:54 PM
About Derek, did he play college ball?



The only time I saw him play competitive ball was when he played for the 1982 edition of the RP Youth team, along with Hec Calma, Almario, Brill, Alfarero, Jun Tan, etc. He must have played under some system prior to his enlistment... It was at this time that the Pumarens were involved in the basketball program under Project Director Danding C. Pilo was an assistant coach in one of those early Northern Cement/RP Training teams bannered by American players like Lingenfelter, Moore, Still....Franz was backup to Frankie Lim in the Men's team.


Franz Pumaren and Frankie Lim played in the 1981 SEAG together with John Copada. Derek Pumaren played in the 1982 RP Juniors (19&below) squad together with Hector Calma, Luis Brill, Joseph Uichico, Richard Mendoza, Teddy Alfarero, Leoncio Tan, Tonichi Ytturi, Alfie Almario, Elmer Reyes, among others. It was said that Derek Pumaren played college ball for UE.

nel
06-07-2006, 01:02 AM
He may have played for UE, but when his father assumed the position of La Salle's head coach, Derek did play for the Archers. At that time, La Salle was in limbo, out of the NCAA but not yet in the UAAP. I distinctly remember seeing the brothers don the Green Archers uniform, and I also remember wondering what happened to Derek's playing career after college, because only Franz continued to play competitive ball. Perhaps rektikano can provide the details of Derek's playing year(s) for La Salle.

bigfreeze_bibby
06-07-2006, 07:38 AM
From what I know as well, Derek played for La Salle. I am surprised to know that he also played for UE. I am not sure about this but I think Derek never played in the PBA, pati ata PBL di siya nakapaglaro. Correct me if I am wrong with this.

MonL
06-07-2006, 07:47 AM
From what I know as well, Derek played for La Salle. I am surprised to know that he also played for UE. I am not sure about this but I think Derek never played in the PBA, pati ata PBL di siya nakapaglaro. Correct me if I am wrong with this.


I think he suffered leg injuries at that time and that caused a career shift into full time coaching.

Lucas Palaka
06-07-2006, 07:56 AM
manong derrick would have been a great PBA pro with his skill and talent, but apparently coach ron jacobs realized he had a great aptitude for absorbing basketball ideas. after pumaren's 1982 youth campaign, he became an NCC assistant together with his dad. i must say, though, that of the pumarens, dindo was way above his older brothers. he would have run rings around japan's yuta tabuse and all the other marquee asian point guards in his prime.

MonL
06-07-2006, 12:13 PM
manong derrick would have been a great PBA pro with his skill and talent, but apparently coach ron jacobs realized he had a great aptitude for absorbing basketball ideas. after pumaren's 1982 youth campaign, he became an NCC assistant together with his dad. i must say, though, that of the pumarens, dindo was way above his older brothers. he would have run rings around japan's yuta tabuse and all the other marquee asian point guards in his prime.


I still remember Dindo's exploits as a Red Cub. He was very quick at lane incursions and his jumpers were mostly medium range and/or pull-ups within the painted area. Moving on to the mens' league, he improved on his range, speed and court sense.

EDIT TO ADD: I also recall one incident where he received a vicious KO shot to the head by a certain Lapasaran in* one of the amateur games he participated in prior to his joining the pros. If I recall correctly, he also had a steel plate attached to his skull as a result of the injury. But he has moved on from that incident* to carve out a long pro career.

nel
06-07-2006, 05:06 PM
Derek's coaching style is partly influenced by Billy Knight. Early in his coaching career, Derek attended several seminars given by Billy Knight.

I find some similarities between the Pumaren style and the current small-ball game gaining some adherence in the NBA, with the reliance on quickness, ball movement, and lots of off-the-ball activity. Under the Pumaren system, centers take the ball high up near the elbow to trigger most plays, drawing out their man to open up the interior for penetration or draw plays. There's very little one-on-one play from the PF or centers. I guess this is also due to the Pumaren brothers' playing experience as guards. The Allado years were the only time that La Salle had a post-up player in the middle. After he left, La Salle never had a dominant post player who could take his man off the block.

david64
06-07-2006, 08:24 PM
The Pumaren system was in full bloom at the Fr. Martin's Cup. UE beat Ateneo this evening with a full court 2-2-1 defense that converted to a man to man after Ateneo crossed the half court line. The defense was for the full 40 minutes, and Dindo saw no need to change as Ateneo was never able to really solve the trapping defense.

This forced several turnovers that were converted into easy points by UE.

I think I also saw the 2-2-1 convert to a type of man-zone a few times, but the basic trap was the same all throughout. It is exactly the same defense that La Salle employs-sometimes. Franz has a few other defenses up his sleeves.

1979
06-08-2006, 06:56 AM
Derek's coaching style is partly influenced by Billy Knight. Early in his coaching career, Derek attended several seminars given by Billy Knight.

I think you meant Bobby Knight. :)

bigfreeze_bibby
06-08-2006, 07:31 AM
The 2-2-1 defense was also seen in the FMC Archers' matches. In last season's UAAP basketball tourney, the Archers used various types of zone presses which includes the 1-3-1, 2-2-1, and the man to man half court trap. But still, both UE and La Salle now these days use the almost same carbon-copy system as far as the amateur/collegiate game is concerned.

Gil_Andrews
06-08-2006, 09:11 AM
Can anyone from La Salle confirm if Franz is indeed back as the coach of the men's basketball team?

Kid Cubao
06-08-2006, 09:29 AM
the 2-2-1 is the template for all zone presses. one can devise as many junk formations as can be imagined like the diamond and 1 and the 2-1-2 center trap, but the moment the defense pins the ballhandler to the sidelines, there will always be two trappers, two interceptors, and one safety.

shyboy
06-08-2006, 09:31 AM
Can anyone from La Salle confirm if Franz is indeed back as the coach of the men's basketball team?

??? *:D *:-X

nel
06-08-2006, 10:48 AM
Derek's coaching style is partly influenced by Billy Knight. Early in his coaching career, Derek attended several seminars given by Billy Knight.

I think you meant Bobby Knight. :)


Yep, thanks for the correction. My fingers must have been working faster than my brain. :)

Gil Andrews, regarding the reappointment of Franz, I guess that until someone in authority categorically confirms or denies it, that will have to remain a rumor for the time being. I'm sure that once official word leaks out, it will be posted immediately on the boards.

Here's wishing that there's some truth to the rumor. If he's really back, he'll have a year to train the newcomers in the nuances of his system.

Fried Green Tomato
06-08-2006, 12:45 PM
Can anyone from La Salle confirm if Franz is indeed back as the coach of the men's basketball team?


Not yet. Let's just wait.

Out_Of_The_Blue
06-08-2006, 01:17 PM
Can anyone from La Salle confirm if Franz is indeed back as the coach of the men's basketball team?


Not yet. Let's just wait.



Oh my, no remorse at all???

shyboy
06-08-2006, 03:31 PM
Can anyone from La Salle confirm if Franz is indeed back as the coach of the men's basketball team?


Not yet. Let's just wait.



Oh my, no remorse at all???


Flame bait?

Nakakatakot ba next year?

Kid Cubao
06-09-2006, 06:51 AM
got no problem with reinstating mr suave. all those months of investigation, and what did the UAAP special fact-finding committee come up with? nothing that would directly link pumaren with the PEPTCR scandal.

nel
06-09-2006, 10:52 AM
i agree. Unless and until there is any proof that Franz was involved in the issue, he's going to be an option. Our detractors like to criticize Franz, but nothing in the internal investigation or the UAAP board's findings implicates him in any way. I guess that the prospect of his return is alarming to our competitors.

Fried Green Tomato
06-09-2006, 12:47 PM
Can anyone from La Salle confirm if Franz is indeed back as the coach of the men's basketball team?


Not yet. Let's just wait.



Oh my, no remorse at all???


Remorse for what?

Despite the endless insinuations made regarding franz, nothing has been proven. Even the uaap board didnt implicate him into this mess.

Maybe, those people who made it a mission vilifying franz over & over since time immemorial should do the remorsing instead.* :o

Rektikano
06-09-2006, 08:39 PM
Coach Derrick Pumaren graduated from UE high and went on to LaSalle for college. He was part of the last LaSalle NCAA team, if I'm not mistaken. Franz, on the other hand was a freshman in that last LaSalle NCAA team.

arhtmahn
08-02-2006, 12:12 AM
Hiraaap na hirap manalo si Bunso kapag wala si Manong na nagbubulong.

1979
08-02-2006, 06:22 AM
Correct!* Derrick's absence has told on the Warriors' campaign this season,* as he actually barks instructions all game long.* Dindo still has a lot to prove IMHO.

airmax
08-24-2006, 11:07 PM
of course pumaren relies on pressing full court defense. ang problema lang sa ganitong depensa pagka na break ng kalaban e kadalasan easy basket ang ikareresulta. of course if you need to break the press. you need quick ball movement para mabreak ito.

wiljoe
11-24-2006, 01:03 PM
^bump

The Pumaren system is back! Although still rusty, it has been bamboozling opponents in the Homegrown Cup.* It's time for the other UAAP teams to wrack their brains on how to defeat the best collegiate basketball system in the country... :)

For those in the know, were there any particular changes that you can discern on Franz's system?* All I have watched was the hugely successful "NO INBOUND PRESSURE DEFENSE" made on the Eagles in the Homegrown tournament...

bigfreeze_bibby
11-24-2006, 10:07 PM
^bump

The Pumaren system is back! Although still rusty, it has been bamboozling opponents in the Homegrown Cup.* It's time for the other UAAP teams to wrack their brains on how to defeat the best collegiate basketball system in the country... :)

For those in the know, were there any particular changes that you can discern on Franz's system?* All I have watched was the hugely successful "NO INBOUND PRESSURE DEFENSE" made on the Eagles in the Homegrown tournament...


The real test for coach Franz's system is next year. We all know that not all teams are playing it out seriously in this tournament. This is being treated as a developmental league wherein it gives the chance for coaches of other schools to mix up their team a holdovers and some of their team b prospects. Nagkataon lang that our team is starting to have a good chemistry and this tournament gives them the further chance to mix it up better. There's nothing to get excited about for now. Other schools have all the time in the world to adjust and do counterplans against our pressure defense.

nel
11-25-2006, 09:42 AM
I agree. One reason for the seemingly one-sided outcomes of the Archers' games is that the other teams aren't playing with the same intensity that they displayed in the UAAP or NCAA wars. Their coaches are tinkering with their lineups, and using the games to evaluates candidates for next year. On the other hand, the Archers are probably just venting their pent up energy after being idle for several months. Their rust was clearly evident in the FMC 2, and I'd attribute the seeming dominance more to the lack preparation of the opponents.

One things for sure, the Archers are a long way from being competitive for UAAP70.

flsfnoeraekadad
11-25-2006, 05:11 PM
Yesterday's press performance was a full-game showing of the potential of the team's full court press.

bigfreeze_bibby
11-26-2006, 10:45 AM
I agree. One reason for the seemingly one-sided outcomes of the Archers' games is that the other teams aren't playing with the same intensity that they displayed in the UAAP or NCAA wars. Their coaches are tinkering with their lineups, and using the games to evaluates candidates for next year. On the other hand, the Archers are probably just venting their pent up energy after being idle for several months. Their rust was clearly evident in the FMC 2, and I'd attribute the seeming dominance more to the lack preparation of the opponents.

One things for sure, the Archers are a long way from being competitive for UAAP70.


Well, regarding our seriousness in this tourney, I think we can't blame coach Franz for playing the team with added intensity since this is the closest thing that we have for a competitive collegiate games which was deprived of our team due to our suspension. I still believe that the pressure D that we're seeing now will be different come next year.

gameface_one
10-16-2007, 09:03 AM
TIMEOUT with Franz Pumaren



By Waylon Galvez
mb.com.ph

In this interview, La Salle coach Franz Pumaren reveals his bitter-sweet feeling on having to beat his younger brother Dindo in a championship game. He also bares his plan to seek a higher post from his current one as councilor of Quezon City.


He plans to stay on as La Salle coach where he has won seven UAAP titles for the school. But he is open to coaching in the PBA if they agree on his terms and conditions.

The 44-year-old Pumaren led La Salle to four straight championships from 1998 to 2001. But the latest one came after a one-year suspension after La Salle admitted to having fielded two ineligible players the past seasons, thus making this yearís title doubly sweet.


After winning the UAAP basketball championship, any plans of running for QC mayor?

Thatís still a long way. Actually Iím looking at a notch higher, from councilor to either the congress of vice mayor (in the 2010 elections).

Whatís next, a PBA coaching job?

Right now I enjoy coaching in college. It depends on the terms and condition, as well as control of the team (PBA).

Whoís your all-time best coach ever?

Ron Jacobs. He influenced me a lot, I learned a lot with his coaching style. Also manong Derrick, he really taught me how to prepare for the game.

If you will make the choice, whoíll be your Mythical Five and your MVP?

Jervy Cruz (UST), TY Tang, JV Casio, Rico Maiehofer (La Salle) and Mark Borboran (UE). But I have to include too possibly as my sixth man Claiford Arao and Chris Tiu (Ateneo).

Anything you did not normally do before the championship?

We really prepared much harder for this championship. You know after a year of layoff.

Your pep talk to the Green Archers before Game 2.

I told them that this should be our last practice. We all deserve a break because it was a long season for us. We played a total of 19 games from the eliminations to the playoffs.

What won it for La Salle?

Itís really the desire of the players.

Whatís La Salleís reward?

Actually, they already promised us a Boracay trip when we made it to the Finals. But for winning the title, nothing is final yet. But definitely itís a trip abroad, or probably a cruise, just to relax.

Favorite sports movie

"Remember the Titans" (Denzel Washington).

Besides the championship game, what other game was the most significant?

The playoffs, it really prepared us for the championship. After the eliminations, we played Ateneo for the twice-to-beat. They beat us then we came back. That gave us additional experience.

Favorite pastime

Iím into boxing right now, and sometimes in play badminton.

MB: Favorite food?

Lately Iím into veggie and fish. But Iím a steak lover.

MB: Last movie you saw?

That Adam Sandler movie "I now pronounce you Chuck and Larry".

MB: Favorite actor?

Al Pacino and Robert Deniro.

Artist or Music you play on your I-Pod?

Neo, Tinbaland, Justin Timberlake and Nelly Furtado.

joelex
10-16-2007, 10:06 PM
So after 7 titles (?), is franz pumaren ripe enough to coach in the PBA?....

seems he has nothing more to prove in the college level...

aircanda
10-16-2007, 10:30 PM
years ago.. i thought that Coach Franz is not a good coach.. he wins championships just because he has very good players (Ritualo, Cortez, Cardona etc.).. pero after what i have seen this season, the way he prepares for games and the way he steered DLSU to championship.. i am now a believer of Coach Franz..

flsfnoeraekadad
10-17-2007, 09:02 PM
So after 7 titles (?), is franz pumaren ripe enough to coach in the PBA?....

seems he has nothing more to prove in the college level...
Well he can help steer La Salle to more wins and championships. ;D

batangueŮo
10-17-2007, 09:13 PM
I think the best thing that DLSU management did as far as its basketball program is concerned is to stick it out with Coach Franz through thick and thin. :)

bigfreeze_bibby
10-18-2007, 06:42 AM
Just to correct it out guys, coach Franz has 5 titles under his belt for La Salle while coach Manong Derrick has the credit for the other 2 titles.

nel
10-18-2007, 01:30 PM
Interestingly enough, both Manong Derrick and Franz each lost one championship off the court.